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View Poll Results: What to do about N Korea
They are all Bark & No bight, ignore them 5 31.25%
We should do a preemptive strike 0 0%
Let them draw first blood and then smash them if they do 5 31.25%
Place as much pressure on China to have them handle N Korea 6 37.50%
Voters: 16. You may not vote on this poll

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Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       08-09-2017, 9:03 AM Reply   
Is N Korea somthing to worry about?
Old     (Stazi)      Join Date: Sep 2011       08-09-2017, 12:18 PM Reply   
Possibly. That have not slowed down at all in developing a nuke and are making very fast progress.
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       08-09-2017, 1:15 PM Reply   
definitely something to worry about. kim jong un is trouble. I believe he had his half brother killed and another family member. He is F-ing nuts. He is petty, hostile, has no common sense or self control. He would be willing to wage war and sacrifice just about everyone in the country except himself. Wait I just described trump. Yeah, there is a lot to be worried about.
Old     (fouroheight68)      Join Date: May 2006       08-09-2017, 2:22 PM Reply   
I suggest we send Dennis Rodman back to patch things up.
Old     (fouroheight68)      Join Date: May 2006       08-09-2017, 2:25 PM Reply   
https://www.ready.gov/nuclear-blast
Old     (fouroheight68)      Join Date: May 2006       08-09-2017, 2:34 PM Reply   
In all seriousness, the best breakdown I've read is here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/c...hreat/dlclsnx/
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       08-09-2017, 2:47 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by fouroheight68 View Post
In all seriousness, the best breakdown I've read is here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/c...hreat/dlclsnx/
zactly.

We've started a lot more wars in the past fifty (or even 15) years than they have.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       08-09-2017, 5:22 PM Reply   
Why is it the nuclear haves get to decide who is ands isn't allowed nukes? If NZ were so inclined we have the smarts and resource to develop these weapons but if we wanted to we wouldn't be allowed. Doesn't seem just to me
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       08-09-2017, 6:07 PM Reply   
Ralph: do you think country's that threaten other nation with Nuclear Attack should be allowed to possess nuclear weapons?
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       08-09-2017, 7:06 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by grant_west View Post
Ralph: do you think country's that threaten other nation with Nuclear Attack should be allowed to possess nuclear weapons?
You mean like the US, no probably not. Ha ha.

Don't forget your commander and chief just tweeted about "fire and fury" being reigned down on NK, followed up by boasting about the US nuclear capability. Also keep in mind the only nation who had used nukes against another nation is the US.

Look there is no easy answer to the nuclear question but I just like pointing out the hypocrisy when i see it.

What strikes me as extremely odd is the attitude to nukes on the global scale compared to the local scale with gun control. If everybody having a gun makes you safer why doesn't everyone having a nuke do the same?
Old     (Stazi)      Join Date: Sep 2011       08-09-2017, 7:10 PM Reply   
Old     (racer808)      Join Date: Jan 2013       08-10-2017, 7:41 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
Why is it the nuclear haves get to decide who is ands isn't allowed nukes? If NZ were so inclined we have the smarts and resource to develop these weapons but if we wanted to we wouldn't be allowed. Doesn't seem just to me
Because the UN or international law preventing any nation from devloping nuclear weapons being Russia, USA, France, China, UK have all agreed to reductions over time. Can't reduce while others are building. The dirty secret here is again they bash America while privately urging us to take care of the problem & enforce the UN's laws. I agree, all is fair in war & it is their right to develop nukes. It is also the stronger guys right to disarm them by force if necessary, especially since they are the only country on earth constantly threatening to nuke everyone. They aren't just threatening us, they're threatening any nation that intervenes in the next Korean war. Lastly they were given nuclear technology for "peaceful" purposes. They chose to develop weapons instead of providing energy for their nation.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       08-10-2017, 7:46 AM Reply   
does anyone think now that NK has nukes that they can be "de-nuked" by force?
Old     (racer808)      Join Date: Jan 2013       08-10-2017, 7:46 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
You mean like the US, no probably not. Ha ha.



What strikes me as extremely odd is the attitude to nukes on the global scale compared to the local scale with gun control. If everybody having a gun makes you safer why doesn't everyone having a nuke do the same?
It was a clearly coordinated message from the admin, trying something new. Right or wrong, it's something new. You're right, why shouldn't everyone have a nuke. By allowing Best Korea to have their nukes you've just given Japan, the South & every other nation in the region the green light for nukes.
Old     (stanfield)      Join Date: Mar 2004       08-10-2017, 8:58 AM Reply   
This is a country that uses centuries old farming technologies and cannot even remotely produce enough food for it's population. It is a country that can't reliably generate enough power to keep the lights on in the capitol city, much less anywhere else in the country. Its citizen army is literally starving. If that little weirdo were to lob a bomb at ANYONE, his regime and nation would cease to exist in less than a week and he knows that full well. All this hysteria over nuclear war is all he can and hopes to accomplish.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       08-10-2017, 9:07 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanfield View Post
This is a country that uses centuries old farming technologies and cannot even remotely produce enough food for it's population. It is a country that can't reliably generate enough power to keep the lights on in the capitol city, much less anywhere else in the country. Its citizen army is literally starving. If that little weirdo were to lob a bomb at ANYONE, his regime and nation would cease to exist in less than a week and he knows that full well. All this hysteria over nuclear war is all he can and hopes to accomplish.
zactly. As a kid in the 80s I REALLY stressed out/geeked out on the threat of nuclear Armageddon (the day after, warday, z is for zacharia, on the beach, threads, red dawn, etc etc).

Kim hasn't even caused a blip on my stress meter. If this turns into a shooting war it's either going to be an accident or trump's fault.

The one thing having a nuke does accomplish for NK is to seriously dissuade an invasion.
Old     (bcrider)      Join Date: Apr 2006       08-10-2017, 9:23 AM Reply   
Boarder85: That is a good article.

The third paragraph makes good sense. Let the rise happen internally.

My stupid idea is smuggle in or fly over NK and drop thousands and thousands of lap tops with air cards so the NK population can see for themselves what is happening in the rest of the world.lol.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       08-10-2017, 9:25 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcrider View Post
Boarder85: That is a good article.

The third paragraph makes good sense. Let the rise happen internally.

My stupid idea is smuggle in or fly over NK and drop thousands and thousands of lap tops with air cards so the NK population can see for themselves what is happening in the rest of the world.lol.
Be sure to drop a power plant or two first.
Old     (Stazi)      Join Date: Sep 2011       08-10-2017, 9:42 AM Reply   
Problem is they have thousands of artillery batteries aimed at Seoul, and the death toll there would be in the millions before any strategic strike could occur. Also it will be hard to knock out all those batteries as they are all hidden in the mountain side, so it would take time and a lot of dead South Koreans until the Norks are eliminated. Sad thing is that the NK people have no choice but to do as they are told as they will be killed by their own government if they even show the smallest inkling of dissent.
Old     (deneng)      Join Date: Feb 2005       08-10-2017, 9:44 AM Reply   
The democrats are really worked up right now. They have a plan to save Guam from Nuclear attack. Here you go. Lets listen.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       08-10-2017, 10:59 AM Reply   
^^^^Please tell me that's Fake!. We seriously can't have elected people in government that are that stupid.
But to your point we have some very scary looking almost freakish politicians. Give a new meaning to "Drain The Swamp"
Old     (racer808)      Join Date: Jan 2013       08-10-2017, 11:24 AM Reply   
Trump should twitter "How to kill little korean dictators" then say "oops, thought I was on google".
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       08-11-2017, 12:35 PM Reply   
seems trump is just playing down to his base, perhaps to take the focus off the Mueller investigation. Blathering on about Fire and Fury the likes the world has ever seen.... except it is a phrase he has used 10-15 times starting during the campaign and right on thru the first 6-7 months of his term. More trump stoking fear for his perceived benefit. "You'll see".
Old     (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       08-11-2017, 12:56 PM Reply   
I think if you were really going to attack you wouldn't be talking about it. Why would you put the rest of the world on alert? Also, our last president was a big ol pussy. I'm betting this is just a test to see how the new President deals with threats. I personally support the threats of retaliation. Trumps reputation of being an irrational hot head to other leaders isn't a bad thing I don't think. As long as it's just an act I'm okay with it.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       08-11-2017, 1:43 PM Reply   
^ I agree imagine if we would've had Barry Obama " The community organizer" remember his threat the red line in the sand! How did that work out for him
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       08-11-2017, 2:43 PM Reply   
Remember trump, "I don't tell our enemies what we are going to do" Except he is, daily.
These threats, especially when dealing with a true nutjob like KJU is a questionable game plan. Too much room for error, escalation, miscommunication, miscalculations, mistakes... This back and forth escalation especially with the questionable sanity of each is a recipe for disaster.
Has the intel, that NK has miniaturized a warhead and can send one on a ICB even been verified? This intel from the same intelligence organization that said the exact same thing in 2013....and proved incorrect.
How does this theory play out? Trump threatens, KJU threatens, trump makes a bigger threat, KJU.... what next, the sand is full of red lines. Are they going to force one or the other to act? Do you think trump should declare war with NK because the little fat guy with the bad haircut is talking trash again?
There are reasons a nuke has not been used in war for 72 years.
Old     (racer808)      Join Date: Jan 2013       08-11-2017, 2:45 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 95sn View Post
seems trump is just playing down to his base, perhaps to take the focus off the Mueller investigation. Blathering on about Fire and Fury the likes the world has ever seen.... except it is a phrase he has used 10-15 times starting during the campaign and right on thru the first 6-7 months of his term. More trump stoking fear for his perceived benefit. "You'll see".
Did you feel the same way when Obozo said he would crush them, annihilate them? What about when Hillary went all hawkish on them when she was in the state dept?
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       08-11-2017, 2:50 PM Reply   
IMO No reason to do anything. Sit on our hands and wait for them to IMPLODE or Fire the first shot. Then Gloves off and SMASH THEM and "BIG TIME"
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       08-11-2017, 4:24 PM Reply   
Quote:
Did you feel the same way when Obozo said he would crush them, annihilate them? What about when Hillary went all hawkish on them when she was in the state dept?
No, I dont recall that. I do recall he said he was willing to use the full united states military might. that's just by memory.
It would be nice to be rid of KJU for good. Calmly wait the guy out, $$starve them til they submit or... if he makes an act of aggression, take him out. Quit playing juvenile schoolyard taunting games.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       08-11-2017, 5:20 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by grant_west View Post
IMO No reason to do anything. Sit on our hands and wait for them to IMPLODE or Fire the first shot. Then Gloves off and SMASH THEM and "BIG TIME"
I think this is a pretty good call, sanctions may strangle him enough to make him choke
Old     (racer808)      Join Date: Jan 2013       08-11-2017, 7:12 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 95sn View Post
No, I dont recall that. I do recall he said he was willing to use the full united states military might. that's just by memory.
It would be nice to be rid of KJU for good. Calmly wait the guy out, $$starve them til they submit or... if he makes an act of aggression, take him out. Quit playing juvenile schoolyard taunting games.
It's a coordinated effort, they're clearly trying something else. Right or wrong & yeah we're supposed to be above it, but it seems to be the only language some in the world understand. Best Korea is well aware all they have to do is wait out administrations, that no one wants war so it's about time someone brought crazy to the table for a bit. Lets see what happens.
Old     (fouroheight68)      Join Date: May 2006       08-14-2017, 8:48 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcrider View Post
Boarder85: That is a good article.

The third paragraph makes good sense. Let the rise happen internally.

My stupid idea is smuggle in or fly over NK and drop thousands and thousands of lap tops with air cards so the NK population can see for themselves what is happening in the rest of the world.lol.
Well, this has been happening. The best way to topple North Korea is through social change from the inside. John Oliver had a good piece on this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrS0uNBuG9c]
Old    deltahoosier            08-16-2017, 6:05 PM Reply   
Looks like the little fat guy backed down. Score a temporary goal for the good guys.
Old     (racer808)      Join Date: Jan 2013       11-29-2017, 7:33 AM Reply   
This guy makes a pretty interesting argument on why we should go to war now with Best Korea. Won't happen without the South green lighting it but some interesting facts & math in here.

"Given these assumptions, a war in 2018 will cause 1.4 million Japanese-South Korean-U.S. deaths (25 weapons (20 kt) * 50% chance of successful detonation * 112,000 deaths per successful detonation). The number of deaths resulting from war will increase by 1.1 million per year (4 additional weapons (250 kt) * 50% chance of a successful detonation * 546 deaths per successful detonation). It follows that a war in 2019 will cause expected deaths of 2.5 million, a war in 2020 will cause expected deaths of 3.6 million, and so on. A war in 2048 will cause expected deaths of 34.2 million."



https://www.realcleardefense.com/art...d__112695.html
Old     (buffalow)      Join Date: Apr 2002       11-29-2017, 8:38 AM Reply   
What about just have a seal team or equivalent take him out? Straight mafia style. One day his people just find him in bed dead or similar. Or just make him disappear. That is not to say that the next leader will be better, but we have to believe he could be removed in a flash. The dude is always on TV or walking around outside - would be easy pickings. Than we could stop all of this nonsense. I do think alot of the banter back and fourth with him and the president is for show. Both of these dudes are smart and no well in hell either of them would warn before they attack.
Old     (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004 Location: Tyler       11-29-2017, 9:26 AM Reply   
Agree he's a nut job.

But, isn't the constant threat of bombings kinda their MO? Missile test firings, etc just put to the world on high alert. then he demands money or preferential treatment to stop the BS. Not concern IMO. I mean he's stupid, but he's not THAT stupid to pick a fight with U.S. is he?
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Texas       11-29-2017, 9:58 AM Reply   
There's no way Kim's stupid enough to blow the awesome life he's got going by attacking. The question is how much of it is out of his control after a certain point.

Trump on the other hand is insane enough to do some real damage.
Old     (stevo8290)      Join Date: Sep 2008       11-29-2017, 10:21 AM Reply   
It always baffles me when people say trump is dumb..
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Texas       11-29-2017, 10:28 AM Reply   
Who said Trump is dumb?
Old     (wakeslash)      Join Date: Sep 2017       11-29-2017, 10:59 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
Why is it the nuclear haves get to decide who is ands isn't allowed nukes? If NZ were so inclined we have the smarts and resource to develop these weapons but if we wanted to we wouldn't be allowed. Doesn't seem just to me
yeah if there is a nuclear war everyone gets wiped out even NZ so dont act like your all safe over there haha.
Old     (racer808)      Join Date: Jan 2013       11-29-2017, 11:37 AM Reply   
So many just don't get Best Korea. No, we cannot just take him out or it would've been done long ago. We also have 40 years of failed negotiating & dangling carrots with Best Korea never keeping their word. Best Koreas stated goal has been get the US off the peninsula & stay out the reunification war. That is what they want, the nukes ONLY defense is for that, do not interfere & they won't launch a nuke at us. That isn't made up, go read, they've been saying exactly that for years.

Best Korea isn't acting up just because. If Trump was dumb & playing checkers Best Korea wouldn't be accelerating their nukes at the speed they've been, they fear this president will take them out & they know they're not getting the concessions all the previous presidents gave them so now it's their only option. Many blame the US, blame Trump, yadda yadda while ignoring the multiple acts of war Best Korea has done over the years that both the South & the USA has shown great patience & naivety by not responding to them. They've sunk ships in international waters killing sailors, they've shot down planes in international air space, held crews captive & only returned half of them claiming the others died of natural causes, they've shelled South Korean islands killing civilians, they've sunken fishing boats. Everyone can sit around & blame the USA or now Trump but it seems everybody never took their heads out of their asses & realized all the missile & nuke violations by North Korea are not violating some made up laws by the USA, they are the UN's laws, crafted & signed by multiple nations, but as usual the UN behind closed doors wants us to act & publicly bashes us. They are emboldened precisely because nothing has ever happened to them for all their acts of aggression & simply because the south is held hostage by their artillery. If the can wasn't kicked down the road by 4 previous presidents it wouldn't be Trumps problem for you guys to bash him with.

Reading between the lines my belief is we are going to launch air strikes & make it known it's just his nukes & all associated with the program that will be destroyed & if they retaliate it will be the end of the regime. If the war goes past that, China will lead the ground invasion & assume control of the Government to lessen the impact on Best Koreans & to keep us out of their back yard. Even if this is settled by war, it will still be Trumps victory no matter how the left tries to spin it. When the liberal tears stop flowing the history books will simply be written much like every other war & the technicalities & anti war cries will be left out, it was a situation that was simply dealt with & now it's over. And those that think China is going to fight us again, wrong. They are not going to risk going up against our navy & air force & we are not going to risk engaging them in a ground war so it's already a stalemate before it begins which is precisely why I believe this will go down just like I listed above.

Last edited by racer808; 11-29-2017 at 11:40 AM.
Old     (racer808)      Join Date: Jan 2013       11-29-2017, 11:38 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakeslash View Post
yeah if there is a nuclear war everyone gets wiped out even NZ so dont act like your all safe over there haha.
They're not safe, Aus, Japan, South Korea & many other nations will be involved like every war we've been in.
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       11-29-2017, 1:01 PM Reply   
Thought that Fire and Fury the likes the World has never seen crap he was releasing back in August took care of the little fat guy. Such a great negotiator. "Only I can handle this"

The problem with an attack/ war is that there is no game plan. The only way we should consider military strike is to have a clear plan on exactly what the goal is, exactly how and when we end it. What are the estimates of souls we leave there? USA has no problem getting into wars but they have a bad history of not knowing how to exit them.

Sniper that fat boy and about 7-10 of his top generals....
Old     (wakeslash)      Join Date: Sep 2017       11-29-2017, 1:17 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 95sn View Post
Thought that Fire and Fury the likes the World has never seen crap he was releasing back in August took care of the little fat guy. Such a great negotiator. "Only I can handle this"

Sniper that fat boy and about 7-10 of his top generals....
LOL LoL
Old     (acurtis_ttu)      Join Date: May 2004       11-29-2017, 2:21 PM Reply   
the best plan I've read about was the retired SEAL who said just drop 3 million old iphones into the country and beam down free wifi.
Old     (racer808)      Join Date: Jan 2013       11-29-2017, 2:25 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 95sn View Post
Thought that Fire and Fury the likes the World has never seen crap he was releasing back in August took care of the little fat guy. Such a great negotiator. "Only I can handle this"

The problem with an attack/ war is that there is no game plan. The only way we should consider military strike is to have a clear plan on exactly what the goal is, exactly how and when we end it. What are the estimates of souls we leave there? USA has no problem getting into wars but they have a bad history of not knowing how to exit them.

Sniper that fat boy and about 7-10 of his top generals....
You're every bit as delusional about sniping him & his generals out as the righties who think war with Best Korea will be a walk in the park. Fire & Fury wasn't just bluster, every military planner who's ever ran war scenarios regarding the Koreas has said the same thing; We'll have no choice but to level the place if a full blown war happens. We have zero, no interest in occupying the **** hole. The precious minerals the country is full of are too expensive to mine or the Best Koreans would be all over it themselves. We do have a bad history of getting into wars with no exit plan, that's why the crazy Don's plan of just ****ing the place up & leaving is the most tangible. Mark my words, if anything happens, it will be exactly what I laid out above. It's a back room deal with China & they might even let Kim & his family exit the country safely.
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       11-29-2017, 2:52 PM Reply   
Just stirring the pot re the sniper stuff. I don't actually think it would work. I dont give the F and F tuff talk much credit as things have gotten progressively worse with 2 immature fools spouting at each other. We need adults in the room.
I'm not confident in china support. I'm pretty sure they have reasons to stay put. I admit I don't have a realistic P of A for "Best Korea" (tell your phone its North, not Best)
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       11-29-2017, 3:18 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by racer808 View Post
We do have a bad history of getting into wars with no exit plan, that's why the crazy Don's plan of just ****ing the place up & leaving is the most tangible. Mark my words, if anything happens, it will be exactly what I laid out above. It's a back room deal with China & they might even let Kim & his family exit the country safely.
We've never ever successfully bombed the enemy to oblivion. We've tried a bunch of times. Wars are "won" on the ground.

You are mostly right that "Best" Korea doesn't have great natural resources... but you overlooked one: geography. It's sammiched between our ally S. Korea and our frenemy China. The North's ability to level Seoul is its greatest resource, backed up secondarily by its nuke program (and potential to level other cities).

The other thing to remember is that the people of the north have been cut off from the rest of the world and fed pure one sided propaganda for four generations. If you thought the people of the USA were united during WWII, the north koreans will put that sort of patriotism to shame.
Old     (racer808)      Join Date: Jan 2013       11-29-2017, 5:48 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
We've never ever successfully bombed the enemy to oblivion. We've tried a bunch of times. Wars are "won" on the ground.

You are mostly right that "Best" Korea doesn't have great natural resources... but you overlooked one: geography. It's sammiched between our ally S. Korea and our frenemy China. The North's ability to level Seoul is its greatest resource, backed up secondarily by its nuke program (and potential to level other cities).

The other thing to remember is that the people of the north have been cut off from the rest of the world and fed pure one sided propaganda for four generations. If you thought the people of the USA were united during WWII, the north koreans will put that sort of patriotism to shame.
I don't disagree one bit. If it came to having to bomb them into oblivion, it will be nukes though. No, we will take a calculated risk that says striking only nuclear facilities will lead to a small retaliation from the Best Koreans assuming Kim would rather remain in power then get into all out war. Your reasons are exactly why we won't engage them in a ground war. That's Chinas job now.

The Chinese are building a 6 lane highway to the North Korean border, North Korea isn't building one that meets up with it. The only reasoning would be to move armor & personnel. Back in Sept after a Best Korean missile launch China showed a massive display of rapid response involving missiles, artillery, troop deployment aimed at Best Korea, not us. China has become ever sterner with Best Korea & Chinas interest still lie with ours more than Best Korea.

The leverage over the South with artillery has always been the great barrier. Those hills will get lit the F up though to try & reduce the artillery barrage. But I am going to venture to say the South is going to ask us to take it out now knowing once the North can truly hold us at bay they will invade the South. The patriotism is there, but I think that is much more concentrated to Pyongyang than the outer areas. There were several documentaries with people who sneak in & out of North Korea with USB sticks to deliver movies, take messages to family that have escaped, there are pockets of damning graffiti towards the regime and "rise up" sort of stuff so I don't think they're any near as brainwashed as the city kids who are indoctrinated day after day.

I could be wrong, but that's the way I see the situation going. Maybe China has a better plan for personnel change rather than regime change? That'd be nice.
Old     (racer808)      Join Date: Jan 2013       12-13-2017, 2:01 PM Reply   
This sort of points to more of what I was suggesting as well.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...tillerson-says

China has built refuge camps. Our agreement is we won't cross the 38th parallel & only goal is to secure the nukes. Or so we say anyway till the military industrial complex decides it has some better weapons to sell.

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