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Go Back   WakeWorld > >> Boats, Accessories & Tow Vehicles Archive > Archive through April 26, 2009

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Old     (drknute3)      Join Date: Sep 2008       03-09-2009, 10:18 AM Reply   
Gonna start on the ballast install pretty soon and have a couple questions about wiring in the switches. I am running 2 Jabsco pumps to fill and drain 4 bags. One pump will fill/drain the 2 front bags and the other pump will fill/drain the 2 rear sacs.

I have 2 Carling DPDT switches with seven pins. I understand the middle pins are for pos/neg from battery, and the wires from the pump go to the bottom pins with criss-crossed connectors to the top 2 for reversing the pumps. Pin 7 is for the lights and will be pigtailed from the battry neg wire.

My question is power source. Should I run a heavy guage pos/neg wire directly from the battery or is there a suitable source under the dash that will supply enough juice?

Thanks
Bill
Old     (drknute3)      Join Date: Sep 2008       03-09-2009, 10:25 AM Reply   
Also, what is the best way to splice the main pump wires for the jumper to the other pins on the switch?
Old     (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004 Location: Tyler       03-09-2009, 10:26 AM Reply   
run a relay for your pumps pos lead. those pumps pull a lot of juice.
Old     (drknute3)      Join Date: Sep 2008       03-09-2009, 10:28 AM Reply   
Why a relay? Cant I just runa fused 10 guage wire right from the battery? Just curious.
Old     (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004 Location: Tyler       03-09-2009, 11:27 AM Reply   
that will work, but those pumps pull a lot of current. You're going to starve other accessories and reduce your fill rate, even w/ your 10 ga wire. A relay will you give your more current to use.
Old     (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       03-09-2009, 11:31 AM Reply   
Buy 15amp carling switches and you don't need any relays, it makes the whole system easier!
Old     (drknute3)      Join Date: Sep 2008       03-09-2009, 11:34 AM Reply   
They are 20 amp switches. So what is the best way to splice the pump wire to jumper to the other pin on the switch for reversing flow?
Old     (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       03-09-2009, 11:44 AM Reply   
Here is all the info you should need!
http://forums.wakeboarder.com/viewtopic.php?t=7670

Sorry to promote another site admin!
Old     (riverside)      Join Date: Mar 2002       03-09-2009, 1:42 PM Reply   
hehe,..that,s an old one.
maybe you have some free fuses at the fuse box,the pumps are 12.5 amp.You are installing 4 bags is it a MC?...A MC has a power suply behind the bow front panel on the starboard side.That,s were i took the power from,..installed some fuses and a multi colored led.


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Old     (drknute3)      Join Date: Sep 2008       03-09-2009, 2:14 PM Reply   
Its a Cobalt
Old     (chadgreg)      Join Date: Feb 2008       03-09-2009, 2:41 PM Reply   
Here's how I did Mine. I put 1 switch for each bag, with 2 pumps per bag. 1 fill and 1 empty. I also put a push button breaker on each switch.

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Old     (masonwakerider)      Join Date: May 2003       03-09-2009, 4:01 PM Reply   
With four pumps at 12.5 each thats 50 amps total with a 25' run to the batteries (there and back) the chart http://www.marinco.com/page/ten-percent-voltage suggest 8 awg wire. I would avoid using the power supply under the dash unless the wire to it is greatly over sized. There are usually voltage sensitive equipment (stereo head unit, gauges) wired to them and a large draw can cause adverse effects. Fused at the battery and then split off to the breakers and switches under the dash. You can use relays but if i remember it takes four relays to reverse the polarity of the pump. I looked for reverse polarity relays but they were $$$. They were used for windlasses and bow thrusters on yachts. I you might find one on a DC winch for a off roader or something.

(Message edited by masonwakerider on March 09, 2009)
Old     (bchesley)      Join Date: Apr 2001       03-09-2009, 7:53 PM Reply   
10 gauge wire is more than enough. I wired up three Jabsco pumps using a Blue Sea fuse panel located near my battery switch. It is a 6 circuit panel with a ground bus. I ran 6 guage from the battery switch to the panel and 10 from there to the switch and back to the pumps. I used the 30amp switches that came with the pumps. I did a full run test last weekend and they work flawless.
Old     (drknute3)      Join Date: Sep 2008       03-10-2009, 7:52 AM Reply   
So is a single run of 10 guage from the battery to the switches enough or should I use 6 or 8? I am using 2 reversible pumps.
Old     (masonwakerider)      Join Date: May 2003       03-10-2009, 11:25 AM Reply   
im sorry i miss read the post i was thinking four pumps two bags. 2 pumps = 25 amps on a 25' run suggest 12 awg with a 10% voltage drop, or your pumps will see 13V when your battery is at 14.4. I would find some 12/2 wire (pos. and neg jacketed together) fuse the pos. lead closed to the battery then run that up to the dash. Then split that to two 15 amp breakers (pos lead again) and then to switches. From the switches to the pumps you can get away with 14/2 awg wire since each run will only see 12.5 amps.
Old     (drknute3)      Join Date: Sep 2008       03-10-2009, 11:41 AM Reply   
Got a ton of 10/2. Will probably just use that from the battery up to the switches and then back to the pumps since I have plenty of it laying around.
Old     (masonwakerider)      Join Date: May 2003       03-10-2009, 2:28 PM Reply   
even better you'll see less voltage drop to the pump which makes them spin a little faster and you will be shredding sooner
Old     (bchesley)      Join Date: Apr 2001       03-10-2009, 8:23 PM Reply   
I have one 10 gauge power and ground per pump. My run is around 10 feet from power and ground to switch and 12 back to pumps with no ill effects. I got my wire off of ebay. I used a tinned wire which might be overkill but it was just .40 cents per foot. I am sure the pumps are not going to spin any faster with a bigger wire than what I have. I will take some pics and post my panel and wiring.
Old     (drknute3)      Join Date: Sep 2008       03-17-2009, 8:54 AM Reply   
So I am revisiting this a bit and have a couple questions. In order to power both switches, I am going to run a pos/neg run directly from the battery to the helm. This will be with 10g. I am going to use a small terminal block to split this power source to each of the 2 switches. The main ground from the switch will go to the terminal block. In order to save having to run another ground for each pump, cant I just ground the pumps in the engine bay directly to the battery since I have the switches grounded at the helm? That way I can run 4 wires up to the helm instead of 6. Does that make sense?
Old     (drknute3)      Join Date: Sep 2008       03-17-2009, 9:06 AM Reply   
Another question is using a single 10g to power both pumps versus using 2 separate runs of either 10 or 12g. That way each switch and pump has its own power from the battery and would eliminate the need for terminal blocks. Just a thought.
Old     (bchesley)      Join Date: Apr 2001       03-17-2009, 1:03 PM Reply   
If you only want them to work in one direction. There is no way around running four wires to and from your switches. You must have a positive wire and a ground to your switches and then two wires to your pump from the switch. That is the only way you can hav a reversing pump.
Old     (drknute3)      Join Date: Sep 2008       03-17-2009, 1:12 PM Reply   
Good point Brad. Forgot about reversing things! I will def run both leads from both pumps to both switches. Thanks for the reminder. Should I run a separate 10g to each switch for each pump or is a single 10g enough?
Old     (pri3st)      Join Date: Aug 2007       03-17-2009, 2:13 PM Reply   
Will this work with 10g wire from the battery? or do you run 2 positive leads, one to each switch?
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(Message edited by pri3st on March 17, 2009)

(Message edited by pri3st on March 17, 2009)
Old     (drknute3)      Join Date: Sep 2008       03-17-2009, 5:35 PM Reply   
^^^ Thats the question I would like answered as well.
Old     (jwmustangin)      Join Date: Jan 2009       03-17-2009, 6:37 PM Reply   
http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm
Old     (bchesley)      Join Date: Apr 2001       03-17-2009, 7:35 PM Reply   
I ran one 10 gauge power and ground for each pump. I had a 12 foot run and did not want to take any chance of the pumps lugging from lack of power. Wire is cheap, my time waiting for the pumps to fill is not.
Old     (drknute3)      Join Date: Sep 2008       03-17-2009, 8:25 PM Reply   
Good point. Gonna run separate power and ground leads for each switch. Thanks for the advice.
Old     (pri3st)      Join Date: Aug 2007       03-18-2009, 2:12 PM Reply   
Are any relays needed? Some people say yes, some people say no. }
Old     (drknute3)      Join Date: Sep 2008       03-18-2009, 2:27 PM Reply   
I think if you have thick enough wire (10 gauge) and each pump/switch has its own power source and ground directly from the battery, you shouldn't need any relays. I am not going to use them on my install.
Old     (bchesley)      Join Date: Apr 2001       03-18-2009, 7:24 PM Reply   
Relays are not necessary. The carling switches will carry the load just fine.
Old     (trace)      Join Date: Feb 2002       03-19-2009, 3:07 PM Reply   
I'd go with dedicated leads if you're using 10 ga. The ground leads need to have just as much capacity as the hot leads. You should be fine with that setup, but I'd be a little leary of using single 10 ga. leads for 2 pumps. Also, don't forget the fuses.
Old     (trace)      Join Date: Feb 2002       03-19-2009, 3:09 PM Reply   
Relays are nice because the leads can be a lot shorter, but they're not necessary with 1 pump per switch.
Old     (pri3st)      Join Date: Aug 2007       03-19-2009, 3:34 PM Reply   
Fixed
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Old     (drknute3)      Join Date: Sep 2008       03-20-2009, 5:43 AM Reply   
Looks great. Thats the same wiring diagram I am going to use. Since I am going to have 8 different wires in a loom, I am going to use 8 different colors and use a key to know which is which. Would get confusing trying to separate out 4 different reds and 4 different blacks.
Old     (pri3st)      Join Date: Aug 2007       03-20-2009, 7:23 AM Reply   
Got my Simers in the mail yesterday. They are LOUD. OK be honest who here has used them or know someone who has used them in the engine compartment area. I know it says they are not ignition proof, but they are completely sealed.
Old     (trace)      Join Date: Feb 2002       03-20-2009, 2:25 PM Reply   
I had mine mounted under the back seat in my VLX, which is an unsealed box adjacent to the engine compartment. I wouldn't mount them in the actual engine bay for liability reasons if nothing else. If you have nowhere else to put them, at least mount them up as high as possible.

The noise was one of the major reasons I switched to aerators (the other two reasons were capacity and amp draw).
Old     (drknute3)      Join Date: Sep 2008       03-23-2009, 7:27 AM Reply   
For those of you looking to wire in switches up front and pumps in the rear, I found a 25' 10/4 extension cord at Menards for $40. It has all the wiring needed to wire direct from the battery to the switch and then back to the pump from the switch. Wire colors are red, black, white, and green. Seems much easier that trying to loom 4 10 gauge wires together. FYI

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