Trick Boardz responds to Ed

In another thread, Edward Sullivan said that his local shop didn't recommend Trick Boardz. I am responding with a new thread.

It is a shame that his local board shop recommend against Trick Boardz. Unfortunately, many shops won’t even talk to new companies; they just continue to sell CW HyperForce products only. The following quote sums up our experience with too many stores:

"I am a wakeboard dealer who manages to squeeze a few days out on the water riding. I ride this board (Trick Boardz) pretty much exclusively... the catch? I don’t sell them. This is the smoothest, cleanest, easiest, funnest wakesurfing board on the water. Ridiculously easy starts, easy speed management, turns on a dime, spins like a top... I’ll stop now so I can still manage to sell some of the wakesurfboards that we do carry."
www.wakeworld.com/surf/getboard5.asp?ProductID=2277

Since our first board design, the Freestyle, we have introduced the Velocity, the Surf Skate, and new for 2006, the Mojo. We have been pleased with the performance of our wood boards with their combination of stiffness and flexibility. Our wood boards are very durable; your grandchildren will be able to ride these boards. Our goal has always been to manufacture high performance boards, not just crap for the masses.

We have just updated www.TrickBoardz.com with information that helps explain why such a "small, different looking board" rides so well. We continue to progress with the only true twin tip symmetrical boards and the world’s smallest surfboard, all made in the U.S.A. We appreciate your consideration.

Larry,

In most of the midwest it’s practically impossible to demo anything (wakeboard or wakesurf board), so you’re left with word of mouth and good forums like this one. Eventually you have to put up several hundred dollars and hope you like the equipment that you buy. Several hundred might not be much for some but for me last year was pretty expensive, and I heard about it from my wife.

Several years ago I successively bought and returned three sets of XXL wakeboard bindings via catalog. I couldn’t get my feet into any of these bindings and so waited until an annual family reunion in the NE corner of Indiana where there’s a lot of kettle lakes and a decent board shop. Even in that shop it took a while to find a pair I could fit.

When I was shopping for a wake surf board I did do some web surfing including visiting your web site and others several times, but it’s really hard to make an evaluation online. In Columbus there’s a West Marine shop, Dick’s Sporting goods, and Mid Ohio Water Sports. West Marine’s selection is limited and the stores staff are not water sports enthusiast, Dick’s is getting out of the wakeboard business, and I haven’t made it to Mid Ohio Water Sports, but I’m pretty sure that they are more a boat dealer than board shop, I plan to hook up with Kevin Ryan next season so I can see what they have too offer.

Last year I happened to be at my boat dealer’s shop (he too has gotten out of the wakeboard business, just sells boats) and was telling him about the problems that I had trying to surf on an old Thruster and that I was looking at a wooden board from Trick Boardz. So it was my boat dealer, not a board shop that steered me away. I plan to upgrade my ballast specifically for wake surfing this year and hope have a little $ left over for another board, again there are a number of offerings to choose from.

I didn’t mean for my post to put you on the defensive but I think I understand your response. You’re fairly active on this thread and have provided a lot of good advice for many of us, thanks and I’m sorry if my post caused you any difficulty.

Regards,

Ed Sullivan

Ed,
No problem. We have a 45 day satisfaction guarantee. If our board doesn't work for you, return it. Shipping will likely be about $30 round trip if you don't like it. That's about how much some shops charge for a rental. Contact me personally and we can talk about your size, wave, goals, etc. to see which, if any, of our boards will most likely be right for you.
Larry

Hey guys, may I play devils advocate for a moment? I'm not attacking either of you personally, just making an observation.

Ed you state:

"so you’re left with word of mouth and good forums like this one."

Personally, I have found this forum to be one of the greatest sources of misinformation on boards and ride quality. I have been fortunate with James' ability that we get the chance to ride just about everthing out there. Some of the comments I read in this forum couldn't be further from the truth. Not complaining about WW, great site overall, but there is quite a bit of unbridled enthusiasm from uniformed folks. They mean well, I'm sure.

I know Larry means well too when he states:

"Contact me personally and we can talk about your size, wave, goals, etc. to see which, if any, of our boards will most likely be right for you."

I've purchased Larry's products, so I'm confident he'll not intentionally steer folks wrong. Yet, we'd all expect him to have a favorable impression of his products.

I'd love to start reading some well-informed product reviews. Some hard hitting truth's from knowledable independent folks that knew how to ride.

Is the sport just too new to get legitimate feedback, or are we too afraid to honestly say: "Just rode my new Coex (insert whatever board name here) and well...it's pretty mundane."

Anybody purchase a board and later find it to marginal in ride quality?

Jeff, your right, you have to take everything that you get off of the internet with a grain of salt. I do think that we both agree that you can get some pretty good wakeboarding and wake surfing advice on this forum.

On this forum I’ve replied to wakesurfing and wakesurf board posts on several occasions, hence Larry’s motivation for this post. I’m not terribly qualified having only wake surfed for one season. I have my friends old Thruster and my Broadcast 5.6. The Thruster is kind of small, so only the lightest of my crew can ride it. The broadcast has been pretty easy for everyone on my crew to ride except one larger guy who rides on my boats weak surf side (goofy).

Even given no ocean surfing experience and only one season of wakesurfing experience I probably have something to offer other’s struggling to make wakesurfing work. The people on this forum are pretty genuine and very helpful, I guess a possible exception is all of the boat show season noise as in the “who are you” post. As you say the sport is pretty new, I doubt that you’ll find information that’s any more current (and varied) than what you can get here.

Water Ski Online posts annual boat reviews, apparently every boat ever reviewed is a good ski boat or wakeboarding boat. Can you trust these reviews or do you need to take them with a grain of salt too? The only review magazine that I would trust to be objective is Consumer Reports, and that’s because they don’t accept any payment for any advertising. I love the Reading and Riding Wakes article – that’s objective, but no boat specific data was provided.

Most seasoned veterans on this forum (I’ve only been active one year) will recommend a water test before buying a boat, I didn’t do that last year but if I were ever to buy again I think that would test drive several boats. No buyer’s remorse, I do really enjoy my boat.

That takes me back to my original statement, there’s no place in my part of the country that demos equipment, so you have to do your research and eventually take a gamble on some equipment. Given that, Larry does make an attractive offer, try the board for 45 days. I’m planning on upgrading my ballast system for wake surfing this spring and I‘ll probably also get a new board. Can you think of a better place to research wakesurf board options?

If I get another board I’ll be able to compare the Thruster but I’m to fat to ride it, the Broadcast, and some new board, that’s really only an experience base of two boards. I don’t know how meaningful my report would be with such shallow experience. We can’t all have a garage full of boards so that’s why we read posts about the boards your son rides and other posts.

Jeff I really appreciate your posts, this one too! Keep them coming.

Am I long winded or what!

Jeff,
Good case in point was my search for a board. Because of my size 270 lbs at the time. None of the commercial boards would have worked for me. Though the people who shape their boards could make one for me. They recommended a board around 7' long. Thanks to you we decided that such a board would work the though the size would be a factor to do anything but cruise. We decided that a board at 6'2" would work and it has. This board is about a foot to long based on performance on the wake and we have a 5'2" waiting. The 6'2" board allowed me to ride with a 70 lb child on a med sized wake with very little effort. Without the help of independent people I would have had an expensive $400 board to cruise on and probably bounce off the back of the boat a few times.

Yeah Ed, I'm verbose too. I think I'd be ok with your reviewing a board and purchase transaction with the caveats you mention. That you have this specific limited experience and this is why "YOU" chose THIS board. Maybe in your situation it's because Larry went out of his way to get a board to you...that's good retailing. And like you say, what are your options in the heartland? I'm certain there are a TON of folks that are in your same situation, or have the same physical qualities. That's straight forward, honest and as Dennis points out, it's independent. What gripes my rear end is all the claims from folks in these threads that just aren't supported. The "this board is the best I've ever ridden" and BTW also the ONLY board you've ever ridden, is omitted I think to me, and I'm sure the majority of other folks, it would be MOST HELPFUL for someone like you to outline their experience in wakesurfing and then share the reasons WHY they chose the board they did. Then some honest feedback about the ride itself. ANYTHING has to be better than: "My new Coex rocks!" sheesh.

So can we expect you to give us an in depth post on which board you choose, why and the followup on how the board actually rode for YOU with your skill set, physical "dimensions" and wake quality?

Yeah Dennis, part of the reason we can bring that board down is your years of experience surfing the "big blue wet thing". Can you imagine what that 7 footer would have actually looked like behind the boat?

Well, it's several months before the season starts for me, so the WW community will have a wait until I get a chance to get on the water before I have any kind of report to post.

What no dry suit?! I think I am making a plea to all the "you's" out there to share objectively about their board purchases and ride quality. Not just blow smoke up our collective shorts. Maybe folks buy a Hyperlite because they don't know anything else exists, or maybe we all learn that for a 115 pound individual said board IS the best.

I believe that the manufacturers and fellow riders could benefit from some honest feedback from the masses. If the majority of folks buy one of the brand names simply because that's how they shop, not because of the ride quality, then the smaller manufacturers know they need to start doing something different and consumers that are more interested in their ride can ignore the cheerleading, but uninformed, posts.

I'll look forward to your post Ed.

I have been ocean surfing for 20+ years and wakesurfing now for 2. When I bought my boat the dealer sold me an Inland Surfer for around $450. He told me it was the best board out there.(Of course that was the only kind he sold) I rode it and thought it was OK but I didn't get the feel I was looking for.(Still had fun)I am use to a 2 5/8" thick by 21" wide board when I surf. Then I met Jerry from Shred Stixx and he turned me on to one of his boards. Once on it I felt like I had been riding it for years. That was what I was looking for. Now I think that since I have been surfing for so long and know what kind of board I like it was easy for me to make my decision. Those who have never surfed will have to decide on which board style they like by riding them. I am sure we have all bought something because it looked good but found it had poor performance or just wasn't what you were looking for. I never did like skim boarding so when I was looking for a board, a Trick Boardz was out for me. I have never been on one so I have no business saying if they are good or not. I would think that a Walker board would be good because it is the style I like. Now I will try the Skim Style board this year along with another style of the Inland Surfer and hopefully get on a Walker and go from there. Anyway that is my 10 cents.
Board More/Work Less!
Johnny Wadd$

I'm loving that! Long time surfer likes his foam and glass. That would point him to the traditional surf shapes and styles like:

Shred Stixx

www.shredstixx.com

Shoreline Lakeboards

www.lakeboards.com

Extreme Board Company

www.xtremeboardcompany.com

The Walker Project

www.thewalkerproject.com/wakesurf/wakesurf%20lineup.aspx

...and away from just about all of the other manufacturers.

John Boy how did Jerry treat you? He's been around the longest, so he may have been the only manufacturer of a traditional surf style at the time. Did your Shred Stixx ride like you expected and what length did you buy? What were you tipping the scales at when you bought your Shred Stixx? Finally, would you say your wake is small, medium or large?

Jerry is cool guy. I am 6' 195#. I bought the 5'10" model. Jerry recommeded a smaller board but I haven't been on anything under 6' for at least 15 years so I thought I would go a little bigger. This year I am going to step down in size. The board was exactly what I wanted. It surfs killer. I didn't have any issues in the transition from surfing to wakesurfing. I pretty much have the same style. As for the wake it is med to large depending on how many people are in the boat (05 B52 Team Triple Up 21').I am hoping to try some other board styles this summer and see where it takes me.
Board More/Work Less
J$

I have a skimboard style prototype that performs as good as any surfboard style board. (and I've been an avid surfer for 25 years so I know how different boards perform in different conditions.)

plus my carbon kevlar board can accidently be left on the carroof, fly off at 30MPH and only receive minor scratches while I can jam my thumb into surfboard style boards. IMO durability is just as important when spending $400 on a board.

CA! I haven't seen you around in ages! Try $600 for a new board in some instances. Tell us about prototype, got pics?

yeah, it's getting outragous isn't it. I've been SOO busy lately with my bags and a video which (I'm 2/3 of the way through 2 years of filming) I actually wanted to talk to you about because I'm putting a 2 song wakesurfing section into the bonuses.

I'd be killed if I released specs before everything is finalized but it's basically halfway between what you are currently riding and a skimboard but 4.5 pounds and bulletproof (literally)

What's a little "risk of death" between friends? The "hybrid" nature of your prototype sounds very interesting. Let us know when you can cut some info loose. PM me on the vid, it sounds great. I know you mentioned your bags a year or so ago, are those available at retail now?

One of the things that is problematic for us, when traveling to competitions with with our boards, as you point out, is that you look at them and they get a pressure dent. I bought this halfboard hard case and then we wrap the boards in bubble wrap (and...due to the nature of those puppies, I always carry a spare for James). The bulletproof nature of the hybrid sounds like a relief!

I just got a Trick Boardz Mojo this week and should get a chance to ride it next Tuesday. I’ll be comparing it to my Broadcast 5.6 the only other board that I’ve wakesurfed. We’ve also surfed an old Thruster but it’s far to difficult to free ride.

When I pulled the Mojo out of the box my first impression was “Wow this is big.” However the size is comparable to the broadcast. The Mojo might be an inch wider, and the broadcast is clearly longer.

I do a decent job riding the Broadcast on the port-regular stance wake. Most of my crew and family ride with a goofy stance on the starboard side, and the wake just isn’t the same or nearly as good. When riding the Broadcast on the starboard side the goofy riders have a lot of trouble with pearling, If the Broadcast had an inch or maybe two more curl they could do a lot more. It will be interesting to see if the goofy stance riders have a similar problem this similar size board.

I’ll make another report after we ride.

Like others above have said, WW has been a great source for information. Remember, not all information is from experts, but from everyday Joe's like myself that are just giving their "opinion". I have been dogged for giving my opinion, even of my "own stuff". Go figure! Even though I have lived in SoCal all my life, lived at the beach, surfed, body surfed, and boggie boarded competitively, I do not consider myself an expert at wakesurfing since I have only been at it for one year. I do ride with 2 world champs, and myself own 3 wakesurfers (Inland Surfer, and my 2 new Phase 5's). I have ridden CWB, LF, Shoreline, and HL. Anyway, we have folks like Jeff, John Boy, Ed, etc, that are neck deep into wakesurfing, have long-time surfing backgrounds, have connections with manufacturers, go to comps, etc. They are a great source for information, as well as Larry from Trick Boards, and other board makers. While everyone is entitled to their "opinion", let's not lose track that it is just that, an opinion. In many cases, such as from Jeff, based on being neck deep with wakesurfing, his son in comps, etc, his information is very valuable. Like was said earlier, you can't get more reliable or current, up to date information than right here. I do wish there was an easier way to demo boards. I, along with others I ride with love my Phase 5's, and a couple friends have purchased one after riding it. There are many other boards I would like to try, just to see the difference. Everyone has their opinion as to what they "prefer", surf style or skimboard style. If anyone ever wants to try out any of mine, feel free to hit me up. Between wakeboarding and wakesurfing, I put on about 350 hrs/year.

Caskimmer,

We are Lakeside neighbors. Let'••••••••• V one of these Fridays. I am interested to see what you have going on.

Can't wait for summer!!

The whole demo thing is really difficult where I live, just not many board shops around and the internet makes it really hard for the locals to stand-up and compete. I’ve been working on organizing a wakesurf competition in Columbus, Ohio on the first weekend in August. Jeff Walker has arranged to bring wakesurf demo boards to the event, see some of Ed Geary's posts.

My summer starts next Tuesday!

Buzz makes a good point, riding style preference, size, weight etc. all impact which board feels the "best" to a particular rider. There really isn't any substitute for a "feet on the board" experience. Ed has really created a great opportunity for folks to ride several different boards without $ outlay.

ED, I recently picked up a mojo too. I rode it for the first time last weekend. It was my first time on a wakesurf and the board was very easy to get up on. In fact, I got up and into the wave on the first try. After a little while I was able to let go of the rope for a couple of seconds. I still don't have it figured out yet. I'm either shooting down the wake too fast or being pulled with the rope. It just takes some practice, I'll get it soon enough.

Ed, when you give your impressions on the Mojo, would you do me a favor and make note of the concave on the Mojo? I'm presuming the Mojo is built like the other Trick Boardz and has a rail to rail concave. Most wakesurfers have a fairly flat bottom, Xtreme Boards and Trick Boardz being the notable exceptions. I'd be interested in hearing your impressions about turn initiation and down the line speed, relative to your broadcast.

The side to side concave arc is pretty significant, maybe 3 inches. I'm wondering if in part the deep concave will prevent the goofy side pearling problem that we have with the broadcast. I have a wide range of rider weight, about 170 lbs to 270 lbs, I’m more like 215 lbs. Our heavy rider is a good ocean surfer but has a lot of trouble staying in the pocket with the Broadcast. It will be interesting to see how weight figures in on performance. The Mojo XL should be about right for me, too much board for the light guy and maybe not enough for the heavy.

I’ve added about 270 lbs more movable ballast weight for the 2006 season. I can put this ballast in either rear locker, and if I ever get a fat sack that the manufacture will provide plumbing fittings for I’ll pull the wimpy hard tanks and put it 750 lb rear locker sacks (still working on returning sacks that I bought and replacing with Fly High sacks).

I rode yesterday, but it was the first ride of the season, we lost the wake recipe, and the water was pretty cold. Three of us rode the Mojo XL. The Broadcast and Mojo are very different boards and have very different feel. The Mojo has a lose feel that we’re not used to. The lose feel is probably something familiar to a wakeskate rider.

My best ride of the day was on the Mojo, but I generally sucked all round yesterday wakeboarding and wakesurfing. I’ll ride for a few more weeks, tweak the ballast, tweak the surf wake, get familiar with the Mojo, and then make another report.

The best part, only one other wake boat one the lake and the season has officially started!

(Message edited by Bigshow on April 19, 2006)

Hey Ed, have you ever played with the fins on the Broadcast (removing the sides, or just the trailer)? I was wondering how you would compare the "looseness" with a "tweaked" Broadcast. Also, what are the depth and length of the fins on the Mojo and how does this compare to the Broadcast's fins?

Jeff, that's actually one of the thing I was planning to do this year. I felt like I could pull off a spin last year but never did. I though that removing the outside fins and replacing the center with one of the smaller outside ones would be worth a try.