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Old     (dkscism)      Join Date: Mar 2010       06-22-2016, 9:31 PM Reply   
Hi all. I'm going to be in search of my first inboard this winter and need help deciding on which models to be on the lookout for. I will be doing ~40% Surfing, ~35% Wakeboarding, and ~25% cruising. I am an okay wakeboarder, just now consistently clearing the wake behind my dad's 24ft I/O. That being said, I'm looking forward to getting better. I have surfed a few times behind a friend's Super Air Nautique and absolutely love it. No Skiing to speak of. I have a budget of $20k.
I would like to be able to have 8+ people in the boat comfortably. Room is definitely a priority. I would say that I would be willing to sacrifice a little wake quality for a roomier boat. That being said, I still want a capable surf / board wake that will allow me to have a blast and hopefully become a pretty good boarder. I've done a good bit of research and have found that a V-drive will best fit my needs for room.
Models I'm considering are:
MC 205V - Great reputation for boarding and surfing. Hull used for a long time
MC Maristar V drive - made in different lengths, all rommier than 205V, but not as good of wake
Malibu Sunsetter VLX - Same hull as early wakesetter, another popular boat
Malibu Sunscape V drive - Different Lengths bigger than Sunsetter, not sure how wake compares
Nautique Super Sport - Another Popular boat known for its wake
If any of the above info is incorrect, please let me know. If any of these are unrealistic with my budget, I would also like to know. Any advice on how these compare to each other as far as room and performance is greatly appreciated. If there's any that I'm leaving out I would love to know. I plan on sticking to MC, CC, Malibu, or Supra for my own reasons. Also, I haven't completely ruled out a direct drive, but I figured there's no way any DD could match a V-ride in the passenger room aspect. Some DD's that I have considered are the Supra Saltare, Malibu Sunsetter, MC 205, MC Maristars, and Sport Nautique.
Old     (delbert)      Join Date: Oct 2003       06-22-2016, 10:17 PM Reply   
Where are you located?
Old     (dkscism)      Join Date: Mar 2010       06-22-2016, 10:20 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by delbert View Post
Where are you located?
Charlotte, NC. Not necessarily looking to buy a boat right now, mainly deciding what I'm gonna search for. I'd be willing to drive a good distance for the right boat/deal
Old     (ChaseR720)      Join Date: Jul 2015       06-22-2016, 10:23 PM Reply   
Recently sold my 2002 Supra Launch SSV for $19K and change. Wakeboard wake was decent and surf wake was good enough to push a 200 lb rider without a rope. For a 15 year old boat, the hull lines and tower looked fairly modern. We seated 10 in that boat before it started getting cramped.

I've upgraded since then but if my budget was $20K I would grab another one without question.
Old     (bcd)      Join Date: Jun 2012       06-23-2016, 5:08 AM Reply   
MC205 is a great boat, but not a great surf wake, maybe a surf system would make a big difference. Bigger issue is it isn't roomy for 8 plus people. Everyone will have a seat, but moving around, getting a drink, getting ready to board will all be cramped.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       06-23-2016, 5:21 AM Reply   
to surf, at that price point, I'd be looking for a centurion avalanche or tige 21v.
Old     (BurnMac42)      Join Date: May 2015       06-23-2016, 5:28 AM Reply   
I'm thinking about selling my 2000 Tige 21v....

-Brand new 2016 Tandem Axle Boatmate trailer
-New engine (crate motor not just block, professionally installed w/ warranty) this year
-Indy tower (so doesn't have the metcrap tower)
-Plumbed in Surf Ballast

A few other odd's and ends....shoot me a PM if you would want pics/are interested...

The nice thing about the older Tige's is they had some of the most freeboard out of the older towboats.
Old     (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       06-23-2016, 7:31 AM Reply   
Based on your budget, usage, and want to fit 8 easily I would rule out the 205v and later supersports (after they killed wrap around seating).... they're small boats, I think our 95' Supersport was rated for 9 people, and that was really snug, so doing 8 more often than not would be rough... even worse with the 205v / x1. The wake is top notch for wakeboarding on those boats but you'll be sitting on top of each other.

With the nut suction cup surf devices any boat can be a solid surf boat.... so I think you're biggest focus should be on size.

I think your best bet would be trying to find a Maristar 230, Tige 2300v, sunsetter 23 lsv,


A few I saw -
http://www.onlyinboards.com/2002-Tig...cky-56257.aspx
http://www.onlyinboards.com/2000-Mar...ida-53999.aspx (be careful if used in salt)
Old     (dkscism)      Join Date: Mar 2010       06-23-2016, 11:16 AM Reply   
Thanks for the responses! And I appreciate the offer Matt, but I'm probably going to wait until this winter to buy. I would love to find a 23 footer under $20k. It seems like that Maristar boat was definitely in Saltwater at that price. I have a couple questions:
1. No offense intended to anyone at all, but I've heard (and read) some people say to stay away from earlier Tige models. Is there any substance to this?
2. Are there any direct drives that could meet my capacity desire?

Last edited by dkscism; 06-23-2016 at 11:18 AM. Reason: grammar
Old     (BurnMac42)      Join Date: May 2015       06-23-2016, 11:58 AM Reply   
I know before I bought mine the largest gripe I've read on WW on the earlier Tige's had to do with the earlier model's spray pockets. As you do your research on WW you will definitely come across guys that advocate for the most precise wake and that is their sole focus. I won't ever realistically be good enough to notice the difference between a slightly washed lip vs a clean one...

One thing to consider which is why I mentioned my Tige to you is that not only do the earlier models have some of the deepest freeboards of that time, they are also WIDE. My boat has a 102" beam. Pretty standard for modern boats but definitely on the larger side for it's era. When you say room is a priority, these boats should definitely be given a consideration....

This was my first year surfing and by the end of the season I have a good pocket, plenty of push, and I can go ropeless on a cheap LF Fish as long as I want (I'm 6'2", 210 pds). The boat will put out a great wave with the right ballast and prop.

Tige also had a bad rap from this era because they pushed/marketed that Taps was the only thing the boat needed and that ballast was unnecessary. Obviously they have gone away from that thinking in current models but it rubbed some of the market the wrong way and left a stink with people for some time. Again, the wake with just taps is plenty big for me and friends that know what they are doing can throw inverts, etc. Use ballast and it gets bigger like every other boat when you increase displacement.

The engine is the Merc350 which is one of the most common marine engines of its time. Parts are readily available and relatively cheap. Don't judge the Merc on my boats experience, the previous owner didn't winterize the block properly and then the new engine had a manufacturing defect (hairline crack in the block) that they sent a crate motor to replace asap. Solid engine that when properly cared for will be just as reliable as any other engine from back then......

I for one have been very happy with my Tige and the community over at Tigeowners.com...It's one of th driving reasons why I am looking at new is because of the support of that forum (and the dealer I trust is a Tige dealer)

Good luck with the search!! I promise no matter what you buy you will have just as much fun as the next guy even if your wake isn't the the most "game changing" rampiest/meatiest/lippiest,/whatever other descriptors peeps like to use ;-)

Last edited by BurnMac42; 06-23-2016 at 12:00 PM.
Old     (dkscism)      Join Date: Mar 2010       06-23-2016, 12:30 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by BurnMac42 View Post
I know before I bought mine the largest gripe I've read on WW on the earlier Tige's had to do with the earlier model's spray pockets. As you do your research on WW you will definitely come across guys that advocate for the most precise wake and that is their sole focus. I won't ever realistically be good enough to notice the difference between a slightly washed lip vs a clean one...

One thing to consider which is why I mentioned my Tige to you is that not only do the earlier models have some of the deepest freeboards of that time, they are also WIDE. My boat has a 102" beam. Pretty standard for modern boats but definitely on the larger side for it's era. When you say room is a priority, these boats should definitely be given a consideration....

This was my first year surfing and by the end of the season I have a good pocket, plenty of push, and I can go ropeless on a cheap LF Fish as long as I want (I'm 6'2", 210 pds). The boat will put out a great wave with the right ballast and prop.

Tige also had a bad rap from this era because they pushed/marketed that Taps was the only thing the boat needed and that ballast was unnecessary. Obviously they have gone away from that thinking in current models but it rubbed some of the market the wrong way and left a stink with people for some time. Again, the wake with just taps is plenty big for me and friends that know what they are doing can throw inverts, etc. Use ballast and it gets bigger like every other boat when you increase displacement.

The engine is the Merc350 which is one of the most common marine engines of its time. Parts are readily available and relatively cheap. Don't judge the Merc on my boats experience, the previous owner didn't winterize the block properly and then the new engine had a manufacturing defect (hairline crack in the block) that they sent a crate motor to replace asap. Solid engine that when properly cared for will be just as reliable as any other engine from back then......

I for one have been very happy with my Tige and the community over at Tigeowners.com...It's one of th driving reasons why I am looking at new is because of the support of that forum (and the dealer I trust is a Tige dealer)

Good luck with the search!! I promise no matter what you buy you will have just as much fun as the next guy even if your wake isn't the the most "game changing" rampiest/meatiest/lippiest,/whatever other descriptors peeps like to use ;-)
Thanks a lot for the great insight. I had no idea about the width or freeboard on the older Tiges. I wonder how the room in the 21 foot Tige would compare to a 22 or 23 foot Maristar or Sunscape?
Old     (BurnMac42)      Join Date: May 2015       06-24-2016, 5:00 AM Reply   
If your set on a 23 foot boat you could throw the Tige 23v on your radar along with those other two... ..... I can't speak for the Maristar but I have heard (hopefully a Sunscape owner will chime in) that the early model Malibu's are a bit on the rougher side when going thru chop....
Old     (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       06-24-2016, 7:27 AM Reply   
Not sure how firm your budget is either but last spring I picked up an 04' Wakesetter 23 LSV completely loaded up, near perfect condition, and with only like 300 hours for $24k

... in terms of width, it makes an INSANE difference. Our Superpsort was a 92" beam. Friends of ours has a newer VLX with a 102" beam but still a 21' boat ... theirs felt twice as big on the inside. Fitting 8 in their boat isn't a big deal where ours was really snug. Now with a 23' and +100" beam maxing the coast guard number of 13 is easy, and still not cramped.
Old     (07launch22ssv)      Join Date: Feb 2007       06-24-2016, 8:45 AM Reply   
You said roomy and 205v in the same statement........lol
Old     (fence_sence)      Join Date: Jul 2008       06-24-2016, 8:59 AM Reply   
A Tige 21v Limited has a great interior. The Riders Edition not so much. There are however a lot of Riders Editions with Limited interiors out there. A friend just bought one like that. He is coming from a Sanger V210 and difference is huge in terms of size. It's really a comfortable boat to hang out on for a day. One thing that has really impressed me though is the surf wake. Right now he just has some standard 400lb vdrive sacs in the rear compartments and with just one of them filled, the surf wake is damn nice. It's not pro size with that amount of ballast but it is very respectable, easy, and consistent. Like I said, I'm hugely impressed with it. I haven't wakeboarded behind it yet but that wake looks very promising. Yes, it has a little bit of wash on the lip but bfd. Its very rampy and with no ballast, has very good size. If you dig far enough back into some threads there are some amazing pics and vids of that wakeboard wake when they are sacked out. Don't be afraid of the spray pockets. They are not the deal killer history has made them out to be.

The major downside to that boat was always the factory "Metcrap" tower. It was a goddamn death trap. It wobbled and shook side to side like an out of balance washing machine. Then put a couple boards on it and it would get real bad. Add some tower speakers and it goes from really bad to down right dangerous. Quite simply the worst tower ever. The best tower of the day back then that was fitted to these boats was the Phat tower. That was mostly a west coast thing though. I doubt you could find one back east. The best thing to look for is 21v Limited with no tower and no ballast. They can easily be had for under 20k.

FWIW, I like the Sanger V210. Nice wakes but I don't think quite as nice as the Tige. At least not as easy to setup so far. Close though. The interior layout it way more comfortable. Also the ride is pretty nice in the Tige. One thing he is getting addicted too that he didn't realize he would is the taps. He's never had a trim tab on a boat and he's now wondering why. It's such a small thing but it's so nice to have.
Old     (fence_sence)      Join Date: Jul 2008       06-24-2016, 9:14 AM Reply   
Also on the Tige, they are built like tanks. They are actually built almost exactly like an offshore race boat. The layup it self is incredibly strong. They do have wood stringers and floors. So long as they haven't been Swiss cheesed for some reason and then soaked for months at a time, they will last forever. Marketing killed the wood in boats. For every rotted out, mistreated boat, there are 50 more with no issues at all. Just have it checked out. So long as it has been taken care of, it'll last forever.

One last thing, the ski pylon. What gorgeous piece of strength that thing is. You could tow a battle ship with it. Way over engineered. If you plan on using the pylon, it's the best ever fitted to vdrive IMO.
Old     (dougr)      Join Date: Dec 2009       06-25-2016, 6:05 AM Reply   
what lake are you planning to go on norman, wylie mt island?
Old     (dkscism)      Join Date: Mar 2010       06-25-2016, 7:17 AM Reply   
Thanks for all the insight on the tiges. I am definitely not partial to a 23 ft boat if a 21V could satisfy my room requirements. I plan spending most of my time on Norman, maybe a little in Wylie and possibly Hartwell a couple weekends out of the year.
Old     (deuce)      Join Date: Mar 2002       06-25-2016, 10:48 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 07launch22ssv View Post
You said roomy and 205v in the same statement........lol
I was going to say the same thing about the Super Sport/SAN. We had 4 adults & 2 pre-teens out in my boat all last weekend and that is about max with gear ect. In a perfect world, I like 5 in my '03 SAN. Wanting a boat that comfortably holds 8, might as well remove the Super Sport/SAN.
Old     (dougr)      Join Date: Dec 2009       06-26-2016, 3:42 PM Reply   
norman gets crazy rough sometimes and your i/o, most i/o's, are pretty deep v boats, you may want to find something that handles the lake better than others as an option.
Old     (dkscism)      Join Date: Mar 2010       06-26-2016, 3:59 PM Reply   
What is the difference between the riders and limited editions?
Old     (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       06-27-2016, 8:00 AM Reply   
I am also going to recommend Centurion Avalanche or Tige. Two of the best of that era in the surf category with decent wakeboard wakes.

Lots of room and storage.
Old     (BurnMac42)      Join Date: May 2015       06-27-2016, 8:51 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkscism View Post
What is the difference between the riders and limited editions?
I asked that same question when I was shopping...the only difference I could come up with was decals and there is more vinyl on the Limited but I believe that difference was only on some of the very first RE's vs Limited...

Honestly I like my simpler vinyl because it's a heck of a lot cheaper to replace than the limited pads....
Old     (cbarguy1)      Join Date: Dec 2012       06-27-2016, 4:07 PM Reply   
Another vote here for Malibu. Good bang for buck, great hull and versatile boat overall. And it will sell well when the time comes. That's pretty important when you are buying an entry level boat. Odds are you won't keep it a long time.
Old     (fence_sence)      Join Date: Jul 2008       06-27-2016, 4:20 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by BurnMac42 View Post
I asked that same question when I was shopping...the only difference I could come up with was decals and there is more vinyl on the Limited but I believe that difference was only on some of the very first RE's vs Limited...

Honestly I like my simpler vinyl because it's a heck of a lot cheaper to replace than the limited pads....
The Riders Editions were a basic package. Simple interior, a tower, and some special stickers for that new, younger buyer. Limiteds had nicer interiors, much more subtle graphics and the tower was an option. All the boats could be optioned out anyway someone wanted one though. That's why you see so many REs with Ltd interiors.
Old     (dkscism)      Join Date: Mar 2010       06-27-2016, 8:07 PM Reply   
So does the limited have anymore room than the riders?
Old     (fence_sence)      Join Date: Jul 2008       06-27-2016, 8:23 PM Reply   
No
Old     (RPM_DLX)      Join Date: Jul 2010       06-28-2016, 7:48 AM Reply   
Am I the only one that find this list as, "wishfull thinking"? 20k in my neck of the woods is barely getting you a V-drive at all. Then add in the criteria of surfing good, wakeboarding good, being roomy and possibly 23 feet....and one of the big three brands only.
Old     (cbarguy1)      Join Date: Dec 2012       06-28-2016, 8:17 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by RPM_DLX View Post
Am I the only one that find this list as, "wishfull thinking"? 20k in my neck of the woods is barely getting you a V-drive at all. Then add in the criteria of surfing good, wakeboarding good, being roomy and possibly 23 feet....and one of the big three brands only.
No, you're not the only one. But don't scare him, we all started out with "wishful thinking".
Old     (BurnMac42)      Join Date: May 2015       06-28-2016, 8:29 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbarguy1 View Post
No, you're not the only one. But don't scare him, we all started out with "wishful thinking".
haha this made me feel better...I was a little discouraged when he didn't even flinch at an offer of a 21 ft boat w/ new tower, new engine, brand new boatmate trailer w/ warranty, plumbed in surf ballast, upgraded ACME prop w/ stock back up, etc, etc was being offered for around that price....
Old     (lifetimewarranty)      Join Date: Oct 2008       06-28-2016, 11:04 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by BurnMac42 View Post
The nice thing about the older Tige's is they had some of the most freeboard out of the older towboats.
HUH? Says who?
Old     (Redheadd)      Join Date: Apr 2014       06-28-2016, 11:20 AM Reply   
What I fingered I'd these constant threads of guys wanting to down from 15-200k on a boat and hinting he Internet to ask complete strangers what to look for. I mean regardless 15k on up is a a lot of money and if it were I,I'd be doing so serious research. Anf good luck with 20k and your requirements.
Old     (BurnMac42)      Join Date: May 2015       06-28-2016, 11:39 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redheadd View Post
What I fingered I'd these constant threads of guys wanting to down from 15-200k on a boat and hinting he Internet to ask complete strangers what to look for. I mean regardless 15k on up is a a lot of money and if it were I,I'd be doing so serious research. Anf good luck with 20k and your requirements.
Was this meant for the "Who can count all the grammar errors" thread"?
Old     (dkscism)      Join Date: Mar 2010       06-28-2016, 3:48 PM Reply   
I guess it may seem like wishful thinking, but I have found several on craigslist and onlyinboards that are within or close to my budget. That being said, I haven't been out to look at any yet, so they could be in terrible shape. Matt, I definitely would be interested in pursuing your boat this winter. I'm waiting until prices go down and I've saved enough so I can buy such a boat and still feel like I can live the same lifestyle. I don't know of what better "research" I could be doing besides asking enthusiasts about their experiences with particular models.
Old     (BurnMac42)      Join Date: May 2015       06-29-2016, 4:54 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkscism View Post
I guess it may seem like wishful thinking, but I have found several on craigslist and onlyinboards that are within or close to my budget. That being said, I haven't been out to look at any yet, so they could be in terrible shape. Matt, I definitely would be interested in pursuing your boat this winter. I'm waiting until prices go down and I've saved enough so I can buy such a boat and still feel like I can live the same lifestyle. I don't know of what better "research" I could be doing besides asking enthusiasts about their experiences with particular models.
Again, this might be location specific but I had the same thought on buying in winter vs summer and I did not notice a drop in prices. Most guys who take care of their boats and aren't in a financial bind don't lower the prices in winter...why would they? Plus, if they are that desperate to sell the boat that they have to drop drastically in winter was the boat properly taken care of to begin with?

I went in with that exact same thought and looked at probably 6-7 boats that were in decent shape and you could tell the owners cared about the boat and not one of them dropped to my idea of "winter" pricing....they just simply waited until boat show season kicked off and everyone had sticker shock from the prices of new boats lol....

But I'm just a guy on the internet...for each person with my opinion you will have the guy get on here that got a smoking deal haha...

Good on you for staying within budget...it's hard to do when looking at toys

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