NEED HELP GETTING HEELSide 360 Dialed in!!!

I have the 360, 5's and 7's on a tramp dialed in and can do the handle pass pretty well most of the time.....I also can rotate pretty well and level when I take them to the water.....but I have had problems over rotating and when I do not over rotate I have had problems having the handle ripped out of my hands and or too much line tension......I have the DVD's the book but I was just wanting to see if any one has some easy great ideas to dial in this trick and simplify it!! Also is it easy to grab this trick as well.....rigth now I can do every grab wake to wake.....so love to grab every trick!! Well thanks ahead of time for any help or advice that may keep me from blowing my self up on this trick on the water!!! T.......P.S. I ride regular!!!

don't try to spin so much, just go wake to wake with the boat, and do your handle pass.... do one on the surface between the wakes just before hitting the wakes, this will help you find a good line.

welcome aboard rothy. maybe you can work with me on this trick next time out. I am still hurting from saturday morning's sesh.

yeah,sure...Billys wake was huge huh, oh ya if you want to grab it, grab it right off the lip like your doing a grab 180, then go for the pass,try slob. just stick it a few times though, so you get some muscle memory

Pull the handle to your right hip at the top of the wake, then release with your left hand and start the spin. Be patient - you have plenty of air time and don't try to "huck" your body around, but make a smooth turn in the air.

I remember when I learned them I just went one after another until I got the feel. Crashed and burned probably a dozen times before I figured it out, but when I did - it stuck. Probably best to do that on a "slow" day at the lake..if you catch my drift (not a boatload of salivating riders). lol

(Message edited by wakeguru on June 25, 2007)

When learning & figuring out how to grab it I found it really helpful to over emphasize the handle pass. What I mean by this is really drop down and pass it low under your ass almost behind your knees. You want to come in strong and really think about exploding UP. Get a big pop, grab the nose and then snap the handle under your ass. My profile pic is a nose grabbed heel 3, you can see how long I waited to pass.

i was having trouble with this too...i found that if i really go at it as hard and fast and i can, i would do exactly wat u do...just relax and take it slow. u dont hav to spin as fast as u think u do. just remember the 3 p's Pop..Pull..Pass

i landed my first one last night, the trick is to relax and not try to spin on the way, just jump and pull the handle low across your back, and TRY NOT TO THINK ABOUT IT TOO MUCH!

Sweet advice thanks to all.....I have spun this trick perfectly several times around and rode away without the handle that is why I decided to get some good advice from all here.....it was getting old not getting the handle...I was told byseveral people that you do not want to have to strong of an edge otherwise the rope line would be to tight and hard to get loose is this correct? And is there any advantage to passing the handle below your butt like I see alot of 360's being done that way....some with grabs and some not!! I am kinda used to having my knee's bent in the air since I always try to grab every trick I can......would it be easier to pass the handle low and spin when my body is more compressed in the air knee's up to my body like I was doing a grab? If that makes sense.....LOL!! ANYHOW THANKS ALOT TO EVERYONE THAT IS POSTING HERE THIS HELPS ALOT!!! I will hit this trick up again this Sat. Tobin

Go for the "pop" - Head up knees bent, keep the handle in... spot the landing and away you go

Tobin, see if you can get video of Gregg Necrason doing spins, most are under his ass & personally I think it looks really cool. When you pass under your butt it forces you to be patient as you have to get into the right position before you can pass.

Stephan, I've always thought it was a good idea to learn the 3 by passing the handle above your butt and then starting to pass lower as you get better at them and start adding grabs. Passing the handle under your butt as you're learning the 3 usually results from spinning too early and throwing your head and shoulders down right off the wake. As my roommate and I can attest to, it creates some bad habits. Your profile pic looks real good and is a lot higher than I've been passing usually.

Sweet I am riding the Delta this weekend Sat. so I will try doing the handle pass right above my butt and below and see which feels more natural or easier.....I would think the under the butt one would maybe after I get it down better be easier since I am used to being compressed in the air to grab the board....but I know you are all correct I have many times started spinning either too hard and fast.....or right off the wake....I was also told not to edge too hard either so as to not put too much tension on the rope so it would be easier to get it loose in the air besides the pull to your back once in the air to help start the spin....so do you think it is easier to learn a heelside frontside 360 first or a BS 360? ......looking over left or right shoulder....it seems easier over the left for me.... Thanks.... Tobin

i have that problem too i either spin and land perfect and robot away without the handle or get the handle and land and catch an edge from spinning weird

Yep too funny I have done that alot of times Jack.....the handle has been my enemy for a year now.....but no more I will get this trick down if it is the last thing I do....and it might be!!! LOL!!! Tobin

the worst thing is i used to be getting about 1 360 in every 4 to 5 attemps but now im lucky if i get one in 10

My goal is to get a 360 down where I can though it everytime. New health insurance kicks in Sunday. So I can go for it now with no worries of doctor bills.

Like this Big Heavy? ;-) I caught a little hell on here last month for doing the handle pass under my butt. ;-) I also come off my edge just as I approach the trough and leave the wake flat… if not a little bit toe edge… It helps me pop towards the boat a little, making the pass easier. Here is the gif I had up last month in my 360 thread. You can see me come off edge a little just before hitting the wake.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v521/wake1ghuth/Lake/360landedsmall.gif

I'm full of bad habits though Tobin, Take it with a grain of salt.

Greg, what can I say, I love raining on people's parades .

If you're passing under your butt, and you're edging correctly and pausing before initiating the spin, then, by all means, go for it. It can look really smooth. But, like Greg said, he was letting off his edge a little which pretty much guarantees you have to initiate the spin with your shoulders, not the handle. It's not that passing the handle under your butt is a bad thing; it's just that, for most people learning the trick, if they're passing low, it's because they're spinning by throwing their shoulders and head down right off the wake. Just trying to break some habits early before you become frustrated like me

The 360 is something that comes with repetition, the more you try it the easier they come. I have found that coming in with less of an edge, slowing things done, and just pop wait till midf-light, than just pull and pass. Once you have passed the handle you will spin around. Also try to keep the handle as close to the body as you can, and it may help to position your hands in the middle of the handle, seems to make it easier to locate on the pass.

I agree with Greg on the edge business. I start with a really hard edge and as I ride up the wake I back way off and focus on popping UP off the top. If you progressively edge all the way through the wake you have more tension and it makes it hard to pass. The thing about the under the butt is its kinda a recovery tactic, you waited really long and the only way to get around is to pass super low. I don't even do a straight ungrabbed HS 3 anymore so I can't really comment too much on that. If you edge like I mentioned above, get a good pop, grab nose/melan/mute it is like a stalled spin because of the grab, pass under the rump and you unravel in position. Being compact and passing under the butt also helps when you start trying 5's. Good luck gents.

Buy the way Tobin, I should mention that I will be trying to follow Jeffs advice from now on, to see if I can get a more stand up rotation. Thanks Jeff

Here is that R2R in a gif if you wanted to look it over... Did you say that you wanted to learn the R2R?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v521/wake1ghuth/Lake/myrzr.gif

So, to summarize:

Passing under the butt with legs mostly straight (like you and I do) = bad (means your bending too much at the waist)

Passing under the butt with legs bent (Stephan's profile pic) = good, especially for grabs

I don't know what to tell you with edging, whatever works I guess. If you follow the Book, the proper edge for on-axis spinning is a constant, easy (ollie) edge all the way up the wake. However, Stephan's method of edging hard and letting off up the wake obviously works well for certain people (i.e. Randy Harris).

Any tricks to the R2R. I've got mobes on a trampoline, but everytime I try them on the water, I always end up halfway between a backroll and a R2R. I think my problem is my edge isn't progressive enough, that I should be increasing my edge heavily in the trough and thinking of pointing the nose away from the boat as I go up the wake.

Short cut, not much speed, Edge hard up the wake, as you leave the wake let go with your front hand, and think about Unwinding. If you’re coming up short, leave two hands on the handle for a second longer. Letting go of the handle early slows down the rotation. Eyes open as you come down don't spot your landing... Look to the shore line and sort of... "Put the handle in your back pocket" or like a gun slinger "put the handle in your front hip holster" on the way down. That keeps your body in an upright, chin over the toes position with the handle in tight against the front hip. The whole putting the handle in your back pocket and looking to shore line thing was the key for me on the R2R. I was trying to spot my landing and I was sliding out, ending up on my butt every time.

Sorry Tobin for Hijacking!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=dM_dzOrCwv0

Lots of tricks but at 1:38 I do my nose 3 and pass under me bum.

Well cool thanks for the heads up to all on the handle pass under the butt or behind the back......I will probably try both and see what works best......I know I will end up wanting to do it under the butt eventually since I will be wanting to add grabs soon as well.......so what rope length works best for learning this? and what speed? I was told to shorten the length to 65 or so and slow down the boat will that help? I ride right now at 75 ft. and about 22-24 mph.... thanks ..... Tobin