Anyone seen the new Tundra?

"jap truck"

when did the japs take over san antonio texas????

Nacho, amen brother. I look at it in terms of loyalty. In WWII, Ford GM & Chrysler stopped producing cars and started producing tanks for the US military which beat the Japanese and Germans. Let's fast forward to 2050 and we are at war with China or Japan. Do you think Toyota, Honda, and all the Chinese factories will stop and build tanks for the US? Unions are a big factor in the problems US car makers have and red blooded Americans simply say screw it, I will buy that Toyota because it looks American. Our cars, SUVs and trucks are as good or better than theirs so it's not like there is a big gap here. Nonsense in my red white and blue opinion.

Guys, I'm as American as they come. I love the USA and I love it when the US does well. But you all are seeing this whole Auto industry as country versus country and it's not. The auto industry, like many other industries, is on a global economy. Yes, back in the early 20th century and earlier industries were country specific. GM was American, Land Rover was English, Toyota was Japanese. But in todays world it's a global economy where everyone shares technology and everyone buys and produces parts in many different countries.
And if you must look at it as American versus Japanese then I'm sorry, I've got to go with Japanese. Why you ask? Well, because they build quality vehicles! Do American companies build quality vehicles? Yes, they have their moments, but overall the Japanese are whippin up on the Big 3 in quality and engineering. Even our own, American, research tells us that. The Japanese (Still looking at it as Japanese versus American for this point) had 39 of the 47 most reliable vehicles on the market. Personally, I don't look at it as country versus country, although I do like it when one of the Big 3 do well. In fact, how many of you drive a Dodge or chrysler? Owned by a German company. I DO look at it in the way of jobs though. I see a strong trend of the Big 3 moving jobs out of the US and other manufacturers moving jobs into the US. Yes the Big 3 have many more jobs here, but the gap is closing fast. As far as money staying here in the US, the Gov't is not going to let companies based in other countries drain our economy. If only we all knew all the dealings and the workings of how the money moves across borders.

We all need to get OUT of the mindset of country versus country and that this is a "Vehicle War" amongst countries. Yes, Japan benefits from selling cars here. And if they build a great product why shouldn't they sell cars here and benefit from it? And if they build a better product than the Big 3 you better believe I am going to purchase their product. And I do agree that the Unions are helping with the demise of the Big 3, but don't go blaming another car company because of our problems that are caused by ourselves, American Unions.

jap truck then who make nacho truck?

IMO most people in other countries show great loyalty toward anything that carries there countries name and flag.Our country has become all about me and my needs with no thought of patriotism, loyalty and good for our common country. Corporate America, American politicians as well as American consumers are all to blame and it makes me very nervous about our future and our way of life.

The Japanese make great cars /products but not all that better than the Big 3 so I can only hope the American consumers can find some loyalty toward products carrying our great countries name.

BTW, the amount of American employees that the Japanese auto makers employee in the US is less than 5% of total US auto workers and associated suppliers.

I would agree that the UAW and there leaders have not served themselves well but when you see the executives raping the company you can find lots of blame to go around.

wakepro
If you really want to piss off kraig remind him nissan is really owned by the french. The reason the japs, or french in nissans case, assemble their vehicles here is to fool idiot americans into thinking they are american companies so people can justify buying them. To this day i think kraig may work for nissan but every time I have asked him he ignores the question.

We have a 58.2 billion dollar trade gap. Japan, China, India, and European Union all have much higher tariffs on US goods than the US has on theirs. Our State Department has done a poor job of lobbying these countries to lower the tariffs and make our products more competitive in foreign markets. BS on our products, especially cars being less dependable than jap, german, french etc. In 1970, maybe but since our free market economy allows open competition (something each of the above mention countries or Unions do not) our Fords and Chevys have been forced to compete with the others. Kraig is right, it is a global economy. Ford owns Land Rover, Volvo, Jaguar, Mazda, Mercury, and Lincoln so technically when you buy a Mazda, you buy American. GM owns most of Izuzu, all of Sabb, and Opel. Toyota is 100% after being the largest car company in world, which GM currently holds the title to. I say no way so I am buying a new Silverado next week and selling my workhorse F150 with 183k miles. This truck has towed my Tige’ up one side and down the other and asks nothing of me but fuel. Now I would not buy a Ford or a Chevy truck if it was lacking in engineering, quality, and reliability. The fact of the matter is that they do not, plus I support my own. Nissan is partially owned by Renault and Citroen, French companies who are partially held by the socialist French Govt. They bailed Nissan out when they almost went broke with the whole Datsun to Nissan name change and poor quality of their 1980's junkers. Chrysler is owned by Damlier (Mercedes Benz) and that is why you can no longer say the BIG 3. It's the BIG 2 now. Should we all sit back and keep buying foreign cars simply on the "perception" that they are better? I say no. Kraig, Nacho, Supra Man, Victor, Flux, Ken, M Taylor. All good comments by people who read up and can opine. This is a good discussion.

a little off topic, but here is a jap replica of the humvee, do you think our military should buy them, its called the jamvee, i am sure it is very reliable

Just a thought - I do agree with Kraig in that the automotive industry is part of a global economy. But, to everyone making this a U.S vs. Japanese battle, I say they have a valid point. I would think all of the R&D and the engineers behind these trucks are from their respective lands. Am I wrong in assuming this?

As an impartial Canadian, and I stated it above, I'm sorry guys, but the Japanese produce much higher quality vehicles. There's a reason why American's pay more money for an Accord when they could buy a Grand Prix for a few thousand less.

I have no experience with owning a GM (although my girlfriend owns one, and it's been great). But you'll never convince me that Ford produces a quality product. I'll tell everyone and his dog not to buy a Ford because I own one, and what a piece of crap it has been. I drive it like a grandmother, and all it does is breakdown.

Yeah but you are Canadian right? The most anti American country, besides Venezuela, in the Wester Hemi. My wife's Expedition has been nothing but solid so I don't buy your argument. All companies have good and bad pruducts. Ford makes great SUVs and trucks.

Quality perceptions can be argued for years. Each of us has our own experience and no one else is going to change our minds.

My father has owned GM trucks/cars as part of his business fleet since the 1960's, probably 40 vehicles in total. I doubt he will ever buy anything else. He puts probably an average of 300k miles on each vehicle. He thinks they are great. The few Fords he has owned have had issues, so in his mind they are junk. This is just his experience.

I have owned 5 Chevy trucks, a Blazer, a Jeep, a Ford, and 2 Dodge vehicles. The trucks were all heavy-duty trucks and were reasonably reliable. The Blazer went through 3 trannys and a host of other things in 75k miles. The Ford had some issues, but overall was OK. The Jeep was also OK, but had a few issues. Both Dodges were junk. The last one (a Durango) was the worst. By 50k miles I had replaced the ball joints, the entire rear end, and several other things. Conveniently, they were just out of warranty. I decided to try Japanese. Got rid of the Durango and bought a used Sequoia. It now has 117k miles and looks and drives like new. I have only had to change the oil and replace the front brake pads. I also got a Honda Civic for my 2nd car. After 3 years and 55k miles, I have only had to change the oil. Not a single issue with either one. In the car and SUV market, I cannot be convinced that "American" quality is on par with the Japanese. However, in the heavy-duty truck market, only time will tell. The new Tundra will be a good competitor, but they need to field a solid turbo diesel to be a true competitor, at least in my part of the country.

I own a 97 Toyota Corolla, it only has 72,000 miles on it, it only has that many miles because it is a POS. It has been broken down many times. Ive had owned one of each of the BIG 3 trucks, or SUV's. Ive never had anything go wrong with any of them. One interior may have been better than the other, but mechanicly, they have all been flawless. My personnel preference. I will never own a Toyota, or Nissan truck. Something just does not seem right about it (IMO), but I will not put anybodys vehicle down. If it is what you like, then more power to ya

"Yeah but you are Canadian right?"

LOL LOL

Im suprised no one has a comment on how Toyota Corp, not a dealership but corporate, STUCK wakeboarders on sponsorship money for NWL Nationals.

Right Victor, I feel the way I do about vehicles because I'm anti-American. Keep thinking that if you want, but I can assure you it isn't true. I love the U.S. I know you don't know me, but many of these other guys know me, and know that I'm not anti-American.

In case you haven't noticed, lots of your countrymen on this very thread feel the same way as I do. This isn't about Nationaliies - we're talking cars and trucks here. Of course my comments are my opinion. You won't change that, but again, you don't have to. You've got your own.

So let's hear your opinion? Why do a lot of American's buy foreign cars for higher prices?

(Message edited by greenpinky on February 11, 2007)

Does anyone else remember the late 1990's Toyota Epic which could not compete with the US makers like Tige, CC, Malibu or MC? Their quality was the pits and their little V8 motors were weak.

Mike, japanese cars and truck are reliable, look good, and are marketed correctly. The US offers choices based on free market competition. If an American wants to buy a Nissan, or a Lada, so be it, that is their choice. The old perception that our cars and trucks are junk compared to the japs is false but peoples minds are made up. Here in Texas, Chevy has billboards that say "our country, our state, our truck". I say good for you GM, take the gloves off and fight.

Canadians do not make cars so you cannot relate. Although Mercedes invented the car, the US made it global and pioneered many of the technology used today. We built the jap factories after WWII only to have them come to our shores and try to put our own industry out of business.

I have lived in ALberta, which is the freindliest province to the US. Even there you could sense the feeling that Canadians have toward what they call TAM, typical Anerican Mentality. We need our American neigbours (Canadian for neighbors) but kinda sorta wish the fail at everything.

Unfortunately this discussion turned political.

People,it is all about the money.US is a country made up of credit and huge politics play when you have the strongest most wealthiest people in the world say what happens.I am going to leave it at that!

If you are talking SUVs/trucks,there is only a few that are just as nice as ford/chevy but for the money nothing comes close.I can tell a quality vehicle by just the feel when I sit down in it and there is NOTHING that feels like a Silverado.

When it comes to cars,US still has a long way to go,ages behind.IMO

Mike: You asked where the engineering for Japanese based vehicles are done. I would definitely say that most of it is done in Japan, however, I do know that the Nissan Titan was fully engineered here in the US. And I think the new Tundra was engineered here as well. The Japanese operate under a philosophy called "Kaizen" I think I spelled that correctly. It's the philosophy of constant improvement. I personally don't believe that the American based companies share that same philosophy. I believe the engineering is there, but are they as committed to quality and the constant improvement like the Japanese based companies are? I do believe that American based companies have gotten better in their quality but they are always chasing other manufacturers.

Victor: What? Weak V-8 motor? Quality is the pits? Could not compete? Ok, please tell me why Toyota boats are not made anymore? Do you know the real reason? And no, it's NOT because their quality was poor or that their V-8 engine was weak. You are showing that you are sadly misinformed in this area. I would love to hear from a few who own the Toyota Epic and tell us what their experiences are with it.

WakePro: That IS a great slogan! But it's just that, a slogan. I really liked the commercials for the new Silverado with the Mellencamp song. But as we both know that it's an ad campaign designed to SELL trucks. They don't do it because the company is patriotic, they do it to sell the trucks.

(Message edited by Kraig on February 11, 2007)

(Message edited by Kraig on February 11, 2007)

I think Victor was being sarcastic. I have yet to here someone complain about a toyota epic. The only reason they are so cheap in the classifieds is because people are to scared to buy one. Scared not because they are unreliable, but because parts might not be available in the next 5 years.

Thanks for the clarification, Kraig. I wasn't aware the the Titan and Tundra were designed in the U.S.

Wakepro - good points as well, but I would argue that Canadians can relate to the domestic vs. foreign automobiles, but maybe at a lesser degree. Afterall, Canadians refer to American-based auto companies as 'domestic'. Not sure why, but we always have.

I'm sorry you think Canadians share that same mentality (TAM). I know I don't.

I agree that this discussion has turned political, and it could be partly my fault. Let's get it back to the vehicles.

On that note, Victor, regarding your wife's Expedition: I'd be knocking on some wood if I were you. But hey, that's just my opinion.

Mike, I really do not think all Canadians think in the TAM way. Lot's of good folks up there. You being one of them of course. I traveled alot out to New Foundland, Nova Scotia, Quebec, etc. and found these provinces to be more anti American than say Alberta or BC.
Some Fords and GM cars are built in Toronto so some Canadians call them "north american" or domestic cars. I assume we could call some Beamers, Toyotas, and Hondas "domestict" because they are built in the States. By the way, our family 2003 Expedition just rolled 200k miles. Gas, oil changes, two batteries, 3 sets of tires and a brake job is what has cost me to operate this American beast. Gotta love it baby.

(Message edited by skireel on February 11, 2007)

As much as I love Toyotas (I drive a Tacoma) I saw a new Tundra double cab driving around today and they are ugly! From the pictures I saw I thought I might actually like them, but in person they look terrible. They are a lot bigger than the older style Tundra though, its nice to see Toyota finally making a bigger truck, but I wish it looked better!

I just wish any of the bigger trucks came to Australia.

We did have f250/350's (over 70 grand too) but they stopped importing them last year. We are about to get the h3 but that wount cut it with a 5 cylinder.

The new Tundra looks ok but for the money I'd go with an F150 or maybe a Ram. Their MSRPs aren't all that far off when similarly equipped but Dodge and Ford will knock off a heck of a lot more from the MSRP to get you to buy.

And just to clear up a common misconception, Ford does NOT own Mazda. Ford owns 30% of Mazda. That's a plurality but if Mazda wants to do something Ford doesn't agree with, Mazda can tell Ford to stuff it if they can get enough shareholders together. That being said, Ford and Mazda work closely together on platforms and drivetrains.

My two vehicles are a German-owned company's SUV made here in the States (Jeep has rarely been a US-owned business in its history) and a Japanese-based commuter car assembled in the US with parts made primarily in Japan and Mexico (a Mazda as you've probably guessed).

I for one very much support a global economy even if it means there will be growing pains in the interim globalization. I personally do not feel sorry for UAW workers who are not looking for new employment given the impending doom of union-based domestic automobile manufacturing just like I didn't feel sorry for myself for having to pick up new work skills given the decreasing demand for domestic construction workers. I've never seen demand for a particular job end overnight with no prior warning and I doubt I ever will.

I am an american car guy- Nothing but GMC's, Chevys, a Jeep, a Pontiac and a Dodge have been in my driveway over the past 10 years.
That said, The Titan and the Tundra seem pretty tough.

Popular Mechanics tested out a Titan, Tundra, Silverado, F-150 King Ranch, and a Ram 1500.
What interested me was the acceleration tests loaded and unloaded (1000 lbs), and MPG.

Titan(317 hp/385lb.-ft 5.6 liter v8 15.7 mpg as tested) Weight-5340lb.
unloaded acceleration- 0-30: 2.9
0-60: 7.68sec.
1/4 mile: 15.78 sec./86.82MPH.
Loaded acceleration- 0-30: 3.01 sec.
0-60: 8.61 sec.
1/4 mile: 16.47 sec./82.85 MPH

Tundra 381hp./401 lb.-ft. 5.7 V8 15.34 MPG weight-5820lbs
Unloaded- 0-30: 2.81sec.
0-60: 7.52sec.
1/4 mile 15.6sec./89.49 MPH
Loaded- 0-30: 3.16
0-60: 8.58
1/4 mile: 16.45 sec./84.97 MPH.


Silverado 367hp./375lb.ft. 6.0 V8 15.4 MPG weight-5440lbs
Unloaded- 0-30: 3.22
0-60: 8.55
1/4 mile: 16.23sec./84.64MPH
Loaded- 0-30: 3.81
0-60: 10.18
1/4 mile:17.30sec./80.59MPH

F-150 King Ranch 300hp./365lb.ft. 5.4V8 14.7 MPG weight-5680lbs
Unloaded- 0-30: 4.03
0-60: 12.1
1/4 mile: 17.34 @ 81.23mph
Loaded- 0-30: 4.03
0-60: 12.1
1/4 mile- 18.32 @ 77.23mph


Ram 1500 345hp. 375lb.ft. 5.7 V8 HEMI 14.6 mpg weight-5520lbs.
Unloaded- 0-30: 3.23
0-60: 8.8
1/4 mile- 16.37 @ 83.5mph
Loaded- 0-30: 3.61
0-60: 10.05
1/4 mile- 17.16 @ 81.19 mph.


Both the Titan and the Tundra had better acceleration 0-30 and 0-60 than an unloaded HEMI Ram..... With better milage.

It is not enough to make me buy a foreign truck yet, but it is enough to make me look seriously at them.

Great info Mike! That Endurance V8 in the Titan is underrated. It's a torque monster.

You can make any truck gain torque with basic mods - intake,exhaust,tuner

Damned: I agree. However, I doubt that any of those trucks tested had any mods on them. And as for my experiences, the Titan has alot of torque stock. Way more than most of the engines offered in the other 1/2 ton trucks. The tests above prove this. The Titan and Tundra accelerated the same or faster loaded than the others did empty. I would say that that is pretty impressive.

Acceleration means little to me. I want a truck that is comfortable, attractive, and can tow. I'll take the new silverado.

Tho the silverado was tested with the 6.0.The 5.3 does the best.Power to ratio to gas mileage.


I seen the new Tundra yesterday an it looked GOOD.

Jared, the King Ranch sounds like your ride, in terms of comfort. Towing? you're confused.

Best acceleration, torque, and towing with the heaviest vehicle on the page. Hard to overlook the Tundra. great info Mike.

I was under the impression the new tundra would be a 3/4ton. Are there two versions available?

Going back a few posts to Victor's comments on the Epic... I'm hoping Leo was right and that was sarcasm, poor, but sarcasm. The Epic's (toyota, not the 2006 ballast beast) have a very loyal following and, having previously owned one for three years, can tell you they were way ahead of time regarding their finish work, efficiency, and overall quality. Those Lexus V-8's may not be quite as torqey as some of the new stuff, but they are as smooth as butter and more reliable than most. Victor, sorry if it was sarcasm, if not.... check yosself.

From a letter to the editer in the Modesto Bee today.

It's amazing to me that the media always brings up the negatives in U.S. automakers ("Full speed ahead," Feb. 4, Page D-1), and the public ignorance of the domestic vehicles quality and performance compared to that of Toyota. I bet you didn't know that Toyota recalls more vehicles in the United States than it sold last year. Toyota recalled 2.38 million vehicles in the United States — more than the 2.26 million vehicles Toyota sold last year in the United States. If this were General Motors or Ford, it would be plastered on the front page of every newspaper in the country.

There are two sides to that statement Craig,
Toyota recalls more because they are taking care of their customers.
I owned a tundra before, an '02 model, and was having a front brake problem after about 2 years of having it.
I took it to the dealer and told them about it and they said there was a recall because the front rotors and calipers were undersized for the vehicle.
Long story short, the dealer kept the vehicle for a day and replaced the entire front brake assembly, about $1800, no charge!!!
I call that taking care of the Toyota owner.

If it was Ford or Gm, the reason it would be all over the front page is because there would have to have been a class action lawsuit to force them to something about the problem.


(Message edited by tlb on February 14, 2007)

my sequioa was recalled for a CV joint. 50 j or something. I guess it was a minor inconvenience. You also have to consider their market share. they sell more cars, so they recall more than other makers.

no charge to me either.

I'm not bashing here: no lawsuits over their recalls. or lack there of. You Ford owners checked your tires lately?

I dont care one way or another. I saw the letter, and it made me think about this topic.

King Ranch is a solid truck and would take it over the Tundra. I do not like the ergonomics of this truck. But I still have no desire for anything other than the new silverado. The thing is a beaut and drives unbelievably.

Wow, those numbers are pretty lopsided.

Acceleration means alot to me, especially when merging on the highway or trying to pass to get away from clusterfarks.

A big difference to me is the simple fact that the Toyota and the Nissan trucks are their largest, most powerful consumer trucks. Not so with the American models. Seems to me they put themselves slightly ahead of the F150/Ram1500/Silverados. Not a bad marketing strategy.

I'd like to see some numbers accelerating from 45 mph up a grade to about 60 mph with a 5000 lb trailer on the back. Just for kicks. I am sure they would do well, but that is the kind of number that may change my mind on some things. Also seeing some mpg's towing at 60, 65, 70 mph, typical speeds etc. Would also like to see how these trucks stand the test of time. All three of the American companies engines have been around for a relatively long time.

For example, I know that Ford 5.4 has been around a long time and is a damn good engine. You can get it fixed just about anywhere in North America.

Just food for thought when looking at newer model truck with a brand new powertrain.

Nissan and Toyota had to come out with bigger numbers on their drive trains than the US trucks to get people to switch over.
Let's clear up Ford's and Gm's problems. It's not quality, their cars and trucks hang with the best of them. We can argue this all day long but the truth is the US makers still sell milions so it cannot be all junk. It's the antiquated business models that inlcude what we have all mentioned, unions. I just logged on to JD power initial quality ratings for USED trucks and here are the stats.

Ford
Overall Quality = 4.5 stars

Nissan
Overall Quality = 2.5 stars

Chevy
Overall Quality = 3.5 stars

Toyota
Overall Quality = 4.0 stars

To keep this back on topic, I stopped at the Toyota dealership at lunch. They only had Double Cabs but the back seat had enough legroom with the front seats all the way back for me to sit comfortably unlike most Extended Cabs. Those CrewMax's must be the size of the MegaCab on the inside. The door on the double cabs looks like it would have a huge blindspot. Not sure why the window isn't bigger. Nice trucks though.


What might get me to buy one...when it's released as a Sequoia.

JD Power is trash. They have never been right on their surveys. There is no way that used Toyota trucks have a lower overall quality rating than Fords. It doesn't matter what kind of truck you like, there is no way anyone can say that Ford trucks last longer than Toyota trucks.

I agree with the above statement. I have had many toyotas over the years, my current has over 230,000 miles. I have also owned both chevy and ford fullsize. I have to say that my 87 4runner, had less squeaks then both 97 gmc z-71, and f-150. Maybe they are starting to get it right, but i will go toyota all day long. Did anyone happen to see the insurance institutes test a couple years back. Toyota was deemed the safest while ford was deemed fatality. Even the main guy said "If i owned a ford right now, i would sell it."

anyone's dealer hosting the Tundra Tailgate party? Got a call inviting me out to a live band, BBQ, and Tundra test drive. They will also have a Ford, Dodge and a Chevy to compare to. (i don't remember Nissan, but i bet they have one) pretty neat idea... I'll probably go.

Go back to Japan Omega Supreme. What are you trying out for Team Toyota?
Kraig, wheres the the back up for stating JD Power is trash? IS this just your gut feeling?

These types of subjective opinions are nothing but rubbish. The numbers from JD Power are straight from customer surveys. You guys know more than the people who do this for a living? All of us can give an example of a truck that has gone over 300k miles, no matter the brand. This proves nothing except the truck was serviced taken care of.

No national pride from you American "wanna be's"

(Message edited by newtige20V on February 17, 2007)

(Message edited by newtige20V on February 17, 2007)

Victor: If the results from JD Power are the opinions of the people they survey, then why can't I have an opinion on JD Power? It's my opinion based on years and years of their results being BS. An excellent example of it is the recent survey, you can find it on another thread here on WW, where they surveyed boat owners of CC, BU, MC and SC. Their survey shows that the engine of the MC is way more reliable than the engine in the Supra. It's the same engine made by the same company. There are other factors to that survey that just don't add up, just like most of their surveys. It's all about $$. I have not met one person who looks at JD Powers as a legit survey to use when determining what to buy. Everyone just gets a chuckle at what results they always come out with.

Please, don't question my American pride. I support companies that build quality products. This has nothing to do with American pride.

(Message edited by Kraig on February 17, 2007)

WOW, Victor pulls no punches. One thing Karig said though makes me wonder.
"JD Power are the opinions of the people they survey". If this is so, then Ford owners are saying their trucks are reliable and have 4.5 star quality rating. Are they fools?
Like I have stated before. I have always owned Fords. I have abused them pulling boats and offroad at the deer lease with no problems. Wash my F150 supercrew, and you are riding in a Texas Cadillac out on the town at night. Ever Ford I have owned has been this way so yes Kraig, in my opinion Ford makes a better truck than Toyota. Kraig also stated this.

"there is no way anyone can say that Ford trucks last longer than Toyota trucks." Well I am here to tell you they last as long if not longer. My dad has a 1936 Ford flat bed truck. Show me a Toyota truck from 1936. Like Victor, I feel that it is un-American to drive a foreign truck. Especially when the numbers prove American trucks are quality trucks.

WakePro: You misquoted me on the first qoute. I said "If" at the beginning. JD Power surveys people in a way to skew the numbers in the favor of companies that pay the $$'s. And thank you for bringing up that great example of how used Ford trucks are more reliable than used Toyota trucks. Another great example that their survey's are total BS.

I like how you bring up a 1936 Ford truck, using it as a knock against Toyota because Toyota wasn't even around then. Is this what you have that proves Ford is better than Toyota?

i hate toyotas and nissans
i will never own one
go drive your damn camary for 300,000 miles
i will buy a new gmc every 20k b/c thats how i roll

Tell us how you really feel!!

kraig i am so happy for you that you love nissans i wish you many good years with your truck
DO YOU WORK FOR NISSAN
not that it is bad in any way, i would just like to know

(Message edited by supra24ssv on February 18, 2007)

Kraig,
I brought up the 1936 Ford for two reasons.
1. Ford was making trucks before Toyota or Nissas were in diapers. They must know a little about making trucks right?

2. Mentioning the 1936 Ford is just as subjective as you staing "there is no way anyone can say that Ford trucks last longer than Toyota trucks". Technically, I proved that yes, Ford trucks last longer because there are Ford trucks still on the road that were built at the turn of last century.

We all must admit, this is a good discussion.

(Message edited by skireel on February 18, 2007)

I would rather walk on bloody knees than drive an import even if it IS assembled here. It doesen't matter where they're asembled the money still goes back to the parent company. Guess who is buying all our golf courses and other prime real estate... Japanese. And by the way that truck is butt ugly.

(Message edited by wake_upppp on February 18, 2007)

speaking of hummer knokoffs, here is a russian one

Supra for me: No, I don't work for Nissan. But heck, I should be getting some kickback for all my advertising!

WakePro: Hey we agree on something, we both agree that this is a great discussion. However, I don't agree with your logic on how having a 1936 Ford truck makes them better than other trucks. Yes, Ford has been making trucks longer than any of the Japanese automakers, but does THAT make them better built? Better quality? No. Ford has been making cars longer than any of the Japanese automakers as well, but why is it that Toyota outsells Ford in cars? Why is it that the #1 cars in the world are Japanese based company cars? If Ford has been making them longer shouldn't THEY have the #1 car on the market? I wouldn't say that any of the Big 3 trucks are bad, in fact there are a few I do like. But I just see other manufacturers doing it better than the American Automakers.

Sparky: Don't buy a Dodge. It's owned by a German company. Personally, it's done them good. That's one truck I would look at buying. Also, if you do any research in the economics of where profits go you will find that the smallest percentage of producing a vehicle goes to the corporate (or as you call it 'Parent') part of the company.

This is a great discussion!

take a step back and remember that these are Nissan and Toyota's first full size offerings. Seeing as how they are literally year's late on this venture I would think they would want to exceed the American power and Torque ratings.

Do we know how well these things will do in 10 years and 200k miles?? Absolutely not. So any claims to quality is utter and complete BS at this point. Toyota's track record show that they will most likely be good though.

I would not buy any first model year of any engine or tranny if I could help it.

kraig, if you need a reference i will be happy to help

Fords and GMs all the way never have had any problems. 02 Expedition 04 H2 and 04 F350

tyler, interesting to see 2 toyo's and two dodges in your top pic. just messin' with ya! nice crew cab (sans rack)

Went to drive a 4x Tundra. All they had was a 4.7L, the same in my sequioa, so i just left. 35K for 4x and 5.7. leather is 1300. Crew Max will be end of March, in TX.

I did find it interesting that there was sticker on the side of THE "sticker". Broke down the % of domestic/foreign parts and assembly etc. I should've snapped a pic..
75% US
20% Japan

I thought the back seat was cramped and new interior wasn't that spectacular. I guess I'll look when they get a crew max... prolly not. After talking to some dude for 10 minutes i was tired of "looking." I hate the entire car industry

Just because someone has been doing it longer doesn't always mean they do it better.

Here are the top ten bestsellers in America for 2006, based on data published by Automotive News.
The best selling Ford sell almost twice as many as the best selling Toyota. From this top 10 list, 2.296 million cars sold are American. 1.622 million are Japanese. Looks like all the hype is BS. The consumer seems to still choose quality American cars and trucks.

1. Ford F-Series 796,039
2. Chevrolet Silverado 636,069
3. Toyota Camry 448,445
4. Dodge Ram 364,177
5. Honda Accord 354,441
6. Honda Civic 316,638
7. Chevrolet Impala 289,868
8. Toyota Corolla 272,327
9. Nissan Altima 232,457
10. Chevrolet Cobalt 211,449


Source: Automotive News Data Center
http://autos.msn.com/advice/article.aspx?contentid=4023925

Considering they(Ford) lost almost 13 billion dollars last year and are going to layoff 40,000 people this year, they must not be doing something right.

I've owned GMC, Ford, Toyota, and Nissan in that order. And, unless something drastically changes with "American" trucks I will stick with a Titan or Tundra.

Travis,
Your point has been mentioned many times on this thread. Ford and GM have great products and bad business plans. Unions are killing the US auto makers. It's no big secret.

It's worth reminding that Mercedes Benz was loosing money for Damlier, the parent company, as early back as the 90s. Does this make their product BAD? Of course not. All of you ill-wishers (is this a word?) of the US makers choose to ignore the numbers. Don't hate.
1. JD Power 4.5 stars of quality for the Ford F150
2. Auto News stats show Ford F150 is best selling vehicle in the US.

to the ill-wishers of US makers, this = junk. I don't get it.

Sorry, I can honestly say I didn't read most of this thread. Just chiming in late.

I not hating on US makers, I am just giving props to the foreign truck builders. As I said, I have owned them all(with the exception of Dodge) and have been happiest with the Tundra and Titan.

I don't think the big 3 are junk, I just don't think they are for me. As my dad would say, there is an ass for every seat. My ass sits in a Titan.

And, as I have said in many threads about boats, if you are the one scrapping the check out, and you like, rock on.

What's killing the americans are Union retirement and benefits, they cost billions that they just can't keep up with.

travis what was the last ford and gmc truck model you owned

You guys are right, this is a good discussion. It hasn't gone the way that many of the other long threads have. Except for Victor, nobody's gotten personal.

I think it should be noted that although Ford has the #1 selling vehicle, the F150 is their only representation in the top 10. They used to have 5 spots in the top 10 with the F150, Taurus, Explorer, Escort and Ranger. Now they're down to 1.

I just don't see that if the quality is there, where are all of Ford's sales going? Once again, I can't speak for Daimler-Chrysler or GM because I have never owned them. I've had two Ford's now - both bad experiences, and I'll never do it again. It'll be Toyota or Honda from here on as I have owned Japanese in the past, and have had great experiences. Once again, this is ONLY MY OPINION.

(Message edited by greenpinky on February 19, 2007)

Flux: You were wondering how the full size trucks from Toyota and Nissan will do after 200,000 miles? I have a 2001 Tundra with 209,988 miles on it right now and she still purrs like the day I brought her home. No problems whatsoever, and it's my work truck. But I will agree with you on the new full size Tundra and the Titan on how will they stand up after 200,000 miles. So far so good from what I've heard on the Titan from owners that have 100,000 miles or so.

WakePro: Great numbers. Thanks for posting. I agree that the American companies sell more vehicles in the US than the Japanese based companies. Reread my post and you will see that I didn't say the #1 selling vehicle in America or how Toyota outsells Ford in America. I said in the world. And as you will notice the only area that Ford or the American car companies have had locked down is the full sized truck market. They used to have the car market locked down in American way back when. Toyota, Honda and others came to America and set their sights on having the best, most popular and #1 selling cars in America. And that's what they did. The American car companies kept making products that the public didn't want. Now what's going to happen now that the Japanese automakers have their sights set on the full size truck market? What I'm trying to say is that there is a trend here that started way back in the 70's with the car market and now is being duplicated in the truck market. It's people who say that it could never happen and that American trucks are way way way better. Well, stand by and watch it! The Japanese build incredible cars and they are proving that they can build an incredible truck as well. Will they make some mistakes? Sure, but they will learn from those mistakes. Guys, I love it when an American car maker does well. I like it when GM introduces a vehicle that is amazing. I applaude them. But the fact of the matter, for me that is, is that the Japanese just build a better vehicle. The American automakers do build good vehicles and good trucks. The new 1/2 tons on the market are good lookin trucks. My experience with the American trucks is that they just aren't quite to the standard as a Japanese truck or vehicle.

The competition is only benefiting all of us! I believe that the American automakers are building better vehicles than they used to out of sheer need. They are trying to compete with the Japanese automakers and the Japanese automakers are trying to beat out the American Automakers. This is good for all of us!

And as what Mike stated, Ford only has the F150 representing in the top 10 when they used to have more. Trend?

WakePro: I meant to mention that Toyota outsells Ford in the number of vehicles sold in the world.

I do agree that the Unions are killing the American Automakers. But that's not all that's killing them. They need to change the way they do business and the way they look at building a car. I believe they have the engineering. Engineers go from one company to another. In fact, Nissan hired a guy from Ford to help design the Titan. So I don't believe it's the engineering that's lacking, even though that could have something to do with it, I believe it's the companies and the way they do business. The American automakers have always operated from the philosophy of building disposable vehicles while the Japanese automakers operated from the philosophy of building cars that would last as long as possible. The Japanese automakers didn't get where they are now by building junk, they did it by building cars and trucks that lasted longer than the American cars and trucks.

(Message edited by Kraig on February 19, 2007)

So 5 American and 5 Foreign makers in the top 10... ok but if anyone is gonna say that a loaded honda civic or loaded honda accord is a nicer car than a loaded Impala or Cobalt you're crazy. I like to drive a vehicle that doesnt feel like a cardboard box... watch top gear any subaru, mitsubishi, acura, they dog on all of em for their awful interior comforts. As far as power, the VTEC may go forever and people may feel cool with VTEC on the side of their car, but its still gutless. I suppose if you dont have any real expectations except to run a long time from your car, then Hondas are for you. Oh yeah and they sell so many of the lower 4 cars listed(foreign) because they're so cheap. The only foreign Car on that list I would ever consider driving is the Camry simply because it has more than enough power in 07, and they can actually be somewhat luxurious. Ford has no "cars" on their and I understand that theyve never made a very attractive car as far as Im concerned, nor have they ever been known to. But I dont see any of your precious Titans or Tundras or Tacomas listed!?!?!? Beyond all that, which one of these "jap trucks" has a nicer interior than the King Ranch?

Kraig, Diamler doesen't, for the most part, control what Chrysler designs and builds. All the american automakers are in bed with overseas companies...doesen't mean they control them. We all know the difference between foriegn and domestic. Any make will live or die by how it's maintained, rice burner or whatever... I can run any of em into the ground and I can make any of em last. A Toyota will always be a Toyota weather it's built in Freemont or Japan. To each his own.

I will clear up that I do believe the Japs make good cars and trucks. No doubt about that. Remember that they got their start when we bombed Japan into the sea in WWII. Our open market allows imports to compete head to head with our domestic products. We are one of the VERY few countries that allow this. If GM or Ford wants to sell US made cars in Japan, Germany, France, China, etc. the products or heavily taxed and cannot compete with their domestic products. Hence they buy local companies like Saab, Opel, Jaguar, etc. Compare a Ford Fusion or a Pontiac G6 with a Fiat, Renault, Cherry, Mitsubishi, Citroen, Seat, etc. These cars run circles around the above-mentioned foreign brands in performance and quality. Can they hang with a Corolla or a Civic in numbers such as reliability? Maybe not but they are not very far behind. What Detroit is good at is trucks, SUVs,and heavy duty vehicles. Yes, Toyota and Nissan want some of that but the numbers prove that this will be a tough nut for them as quality is higher in these American products. You cant automatically assume that because Japan is good at little skate board cars, they will dominate trucks too. We would all be driving VW bugs if this were the case. After all they had the best selling car in the US at one point. VW is not even on the radar in America.

Number 11 on the list is Ford Explorer, 12 is Chevy Tahoe, 13 is Dodge Caravan, 14 is Ford Expedition, and 15 is Ford Mustang. This speaks volumes. The Sequoia and Tundra have been out for more than 5 years and still the American consumer buys US made SUVs, overwhelmingly. Am I and all of the other US made car buyers just crazy? The Sequoia and Tundra don't even make the top 20.

Take into account that high gas prices have helped the Camry, Accord, Corolla, and Civic, not out and out quality and dominance over US makers. It just seems some of you are, in the back of your mind, hoping Ford and GM get beat by the Japs and go broke. This is America baby. Someone mentioned the rich Japanese consortiums buying up San Fran, New York, Houston. It's true and they do it with Corolla, Walkman, and Katana money. Talk about Imperialists.

(Message edited by skireel on February 19, 2007)

(Message edited by skireel on February 19, 2007)

(Message edited by skireel on February 19, 2007)

DO WORK SON 22's SON!!!!!

I see a lot of good points about the cars and trucks of both the US and Japan, but what I have not seen is any discussion on resale? We all know that we buy vehicles for the long haul, but we rarely drive them until they do not run anymore, we sell them for something bigger and better. I can't speak for the US, but when you buy a 40K truck designed and made in the US, and you buy a 40K truck designed in Japan and made in the US, the resale on the "foreign" truck will always be higher here in Canada....strictly an apples to apples comparison.

On a lighter note:

Check out the making of the tundra commercial with the big giant seesaw. Take note of the brand of trucks used to haul the seesaw and were driven by the work crews.

http://www.toyota.com/vehicles/minisite/commercial/tundra_tv1.html

Screen shots:

http://www.fish-store.com/tundra1.jpg

http://www.fish-store.com/tundra2.jpg

http://www.fish-store.com/tundra3.jpg

(Message edited by Flux on February 20, 2007)

(Message edited by Flux on February 20, 2007)

(Message edited by Flux on February 20, 2007)

(Message edited by Flux on February 20, 2007)

Tyler, are you kidding me? Did you really just say that a Cobalt has a nicer interior than a Civic? Car and Driver, MotorTrend, etc, etc. list over and over how Honda and Acura have some of the best interiors in the business. Maybe they are not always as flashy as the GM products, but they are much tigher. Seams are cleaner, quality is better, etc. My leather in my Acura is WAY better than than crap I had in my '04 Ford. Personally, I have never looked in an Impala, because to me it's something a grandma or a cop would drive, but I have seen the cheap looking plastic interior in a Cobalt and it looks like junk. I'm personally not a fan of the new Civic interiors, but the interiors on the '96-'02 Civics were probably as clean as any car I've ever seen in that price range. I had a '98 I sold with almost 200k on it and it didn't have any rattles and looked like the day I got it. Go look in a GMC Envoy, then go look at the new Acura MDX and tell me which one has a better interior. The Nav system in the Acura is so much better the Acura should win on that feature alone.

Every one of those Japanese cars goes for way more than an equally equipped American model. Compare a Civic and a Cobalt head to head, equally equipped, the Civic will go for more every time. The stickers may be close, but GM is going to "employee discount" that Cobalt for thousands less.

It would be interesting to take out the fleet sales of all the GM, Ford, Dodge, Toyota and Nissan trucks and see what the numbers are when the trucks are bought for personal use.

I know there has been a lot of discussion about supporting Japan vs. america, but what we really need to worry about is CHINA!! They are the biggest threat to the american workers and our way of life.

Saying that Daimler doesn't control what Chryler builds is the same as saying Nissan Japan doesn't control what the US designers do designing their trucks. The overall corporation always has final say. The Daimler situation is a lot different than say Ford and Mazda. If you don't want to believe Dodge is owned by a German company, don't, but that is exactly what has happened. I guess at least the goverment didn't have to bail them out this time.