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Old     (bass10after)      Join Date: Feb 2010       02-10-2017, 9:22 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wake77 View Post
Libya
Somalia
Yemen
Iraq
Iran
Syria
Sudan

Now, can you tell us why you are so frightened of people from these countries?
Can you ask obama what frightened him about them? he wrote the very bill that included them and granted the very power to keep them out, so if your almighty hero had cause why can't you see one?
Old     (bass10after)      Join Date: Feb 2010       02-10-2017, 9:31 PM Reply   
"In December 2015 Congress passed a law - created by senators from both parties, and supported and signed by the White House - that removed waiver benefits for foreign nationals who had visited certain countries since March 2011. The countries were identified as having a terrorist organisation with a significant presence in the area, or the country was deemed a "safe haven" for terrorists. " - source: jack goodman bbc news

I don't give a flying F*ck if obama enacted it or anything else like it, he saw the concern for it himself. If a guy coming into office after campaigning that he was going to help secure our country and was elected because of that line actually does it then so be it. That is for the greater good of everyone here. He doesn't have to list every source of his reasoning, but lets say theres intelligence out there that justifies it... If that gets overruled by someone not included in the same intelligence that he gets- how stupid are we as a country!? ITS NOT PERMANENT!!! WHAT PART OF THAT DOESN'T ANYONE GET!?
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       02-10-2017, 9:54 PM Reply   
Wes: you know what's funny, I think people like the guy in your last post are looking for Attention. Example I have never heard of the guy. But now that he announced he is not going Now he will become a household name for a few weeks. looking to gain some notariary off TRUMP, that's pretty sad
Old     (bass10after)      Join Date: Feb 2010       02-10-2017, 10:23 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by grant_west View Post
Wes: you know what's funny, I think people like the guy in your last post are looking for Attention. Example I have never heard of the guy. But now that he announced he is not going Now he will become a household name for a few weeks. looking to gain some notariary off TRUMP, that's pretty sad
wes was cracking a joke...well sort of, that pic has been making its rounds on the internet. Arron Hernandez used to be on the patriots and was convicted of murdering a man a few years back and currently in prison for who knows how long. Luckily obama isn't around to pardon him or any other criminal for that matter
Old     (diamonddad)      Join Date: Mar 2010       02-10-2017, 10:44 PM Reply   
This guys video (originally on facebook) has had 50M views or more.

Kumbaya libiots can't handle the truth.

Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       02-10-2017, 10:57 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by bass10after View Post
nobody here can, nor will they respond to either of our comments regarding this with any logical explanation because it makes too much sense. Never mind the bill was obamas to begin with, nevermind these are countries he picked out, never mind who's in office. I don't give a hoot if its wes in office if he says this needs to happen the protests and opinions of outsiders judges etc don't override him.
Look, if Trump was competent he would have written and implemented the order in a way which was legal and it wouldn't be in limbo like it is now. That big dummy has nobody to blame but himself, government is different from business, he needs to wise up fast.
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Texas       02-10-2017, 11:01 PM Reply   
Exactly. No one to blame but himself, but all the snowflakes gotta cry and whine about liberals who have "no power" and yet somehow Hair Furrer keeps tripping up. Plus you gotta love poor Mark going out of his way (for like the 33rd time this month) to say what great sense of humor conservatives have only to have Grant and co prove him wrong a few posts later. Guess I should have put that joke in the NFL thread instead lol
Old     (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       02-10-2017, 11:20 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by fly135 View Post
What's your source of inside information? There was absolutely nothing in that article that amounted to fabrication. It would be incredibly hard to prove that Rush didn't think he was being racially profiled. The investigation concluded that he wasn't, but that doesn't mean he was fabricating the belief he was. If you don't have any more than that article to justify your complaints, then you are more delusional in your accusations than Rush.
MY source is the actual complaint filed and the allegations he made against the officers that they belittled him , were unprofessional , treated him with disrespect and made comments that he said were racially bias. Of which none of that happened. Can you tell me what was so intimidating ?

You do realize the area he represents is 100% black and any traffic stop would then be profiling. You also do realize the officers were following a crime pattern of over 70 high end SUV's and sedans that were recently stolen the days prior from 7 dealerships . Knowing why he was pulled over, and those exact reasons he still felt embarrassed ? He's the one that was unprofessional. So he files a bogus complaint to intimidate officers and make a scene. The same guy who wore a hoody on capital hill whe. Trevon was killed ...... You feel embarrassed because the police in your area are doing exactly what their job entails ? Hell they shoulda wrote him the "mandatory appearance " expired insurance ticket .

What's more delusional is you think a newspaper prints an entire story and all the facts.

Last edited by xstarrider; 02-10-2017 at 11:25 PM.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       02-10-2017, 11:44 PM Reply   
Wes your wrong I do have a Great sence of humor. I laugh at you Snowflakes and your fake outrage everyday. like right now Buhhaaahahaha.!!!!!
Old     (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       02-10-2017, 11:50 PM Reply   
I am also sure aware of the state mandate by Obama to track every traffic stop made in Illinois by police. A program that was supposed to run for 3 years and has been extended numerous times now all the way 2019.

Why has it been extended you ask?????? Because each year the data they collect has proven there is absolutely no racial bias in police traffic stops , They keep waiting for that I got you memento but it never comes no matter how hard they look at the data and try and twist it. They keep hoping each extension and year something happens and they can say ha I got you ..............but we are in year 14 and not one year of data can prove there is bias. The simple fact of the matter is that traffic stops mirror crime data. The most violent places see the most stops of individuals. Those most violent places are 87.6 percent black. Amazing the traffic stop data mirrors that . Here's another mind blower. Over 91 percent of shootings are in black neighborhoods . The traffic stop data again shows the fact blacks are stopped more frequently , gee is that because these neighborhoods are saturated with 3 and 4 times the police presence? BBC. Ya think that may have something to do with the stats too?
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       02-11-2017, 12:04 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by pesos View Post
Exactly. No one to blame but himself, but all the snowflakes gotta cry and whine about liberals who have "no power" and yet somehow Hair Furrer keeps tripping up. Plus you gotta love poor Mark going out of his way (for like the 33rd time this month) to say what great sense of humor conservatives have only to have Grant and co prove him wrong a few posts later. Guess I should have put that joke in the NFL thread instead lol
Ah... when it rains, it pours. Um... you might wanna read what you just wrote. Like most of the country, I'm ELATED that your team has no power so no whining here. On the contrary, mi hermano. You can also stop trying to co-opt the snowflake label too. That's always meant for your crew. What is this? Opposite Day? lol It's funny that you follow me on the NFL thread. Internet Stalker!
Old     (diamonddad)      Join Date: Mar 2010       02-11-2017, 12:31 AM Reply   
Quote:
Look, if Trump was competent he would have written and implemented the order in a way which was legal and it wouldn't be in limbo like it is now. That big dummy has nobody to blame but himself, government is different from business, he needs to wise up fast.
I agree. Hope he learns from this. It should have been more carefully drafted and explained to the country. The arguments presented in court were weak too but those should have never been necessary.
Old     (bass10after)      Join Date: Feb 2010       02-11-2017, 12:54 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
Look, if Trump was competent he would have written and implemented the order in a way which was legal and it wouldn't be in limbo like it is now. That big dummy has nobody to blame but himself, government is different from business, he needs to wise up fast.
I'm not sure whats illegal about it other than everyone claiming its discriminatory. Thats a joke as only 15% of the worlds pop of muslims are affected and obama himself passed a bill in case he needed to exercise the same action.... He's not a poet that much we can agree on. With good comes bad and theres a good portion of this country that likes what he's done so far. Its a shame they get railroaded and portrayed as racists and nazi's for thinking different than the protest party. This country is turning into freedom of one way speech and you can make little argument against that either.
Old     (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       02-11-2017, 4:42 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by grant_west View Post
To the people here saying we should open our borders, What do you have to say about the FACT that of all of the Nations threw out Europe that took part in accepting mass refugees. Over 1/2 that's 55% or more of the population in Each of the country's say it was a bad Idea and or would reverse or hault the practice. (Poland was the highest 75% of the population was or is against it) They All agreee the refugees have hurt their country's. Germany is regretting it big time.

Now why in all your Wisdom, would you think that what has FAILED in Europe would work here?
You are the prime example of why this country is screwed. Look, just because someone is against building the wall, it doesn't make them pro-open borders. It's one extreme or another with you. I mean if you want to take your wife to Outback and she says no that day, does that make her anti-steak?
Old     (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       02-11-2017, 4:50 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by bass10after View Post
I'm not sure whats illegal about it other than everyone claiming its discriminatory. Thats a joke as only 15% of the worlds pop of muslims are affected and obama himself passed a bill in case he needed to exercise the same action.... He's not a poet that much we can agree on. With good comes bad and theres a good portion of this country that likes what he's done so far. Its a shame they get railroaded and portrayed as racists and nazi's for thinking different than the protest party. This country is turning into freedom of one way speech and you can make little argument against that either.
Conservatives do the same thing that you seem to be against. If you say you don't agree with Trump's latest immigration policy, then you are "For open borders". I have never agreed with every action from any of the presidents that have served since I have been alive, so why am I demonized for disagreeing with Trump's current immigration bills? I support his move to back out of TPP.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       02-11-2017, 6:44 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by xstarrider View Post
What's more delusional is you think a newspaper prints an entire story and all the facts.
What's even more delusional is that you think I think that.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       02-11-2017, 6:49 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by diamonddad View Post
Kumbaya libiots can't handle the truth.
You mean the part where we invaded the country, shipped a ton of weapons there that are being used in a civil war, pretty much wrecked havoc everywhere giving them democracy, and the idiots can't understand why the locals might want to kill you?
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       02-11-2017, 6:52 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by diamonddad View Post
Pretty amazing stats considering the number of Trump haters that would be against anything he does independent of what it is.
Or it could just be that he's a stupid POS and it will take a while for a lot of people to figure that out.
Old     (Cabledog)      Join Date: Dec 2013       02-11-2017, 9:02 AM Reply   
No one is going after immigrants who are here legally and contributing to society. However if you are an illegal alien who is here taking advantage of the taxpayer that is a different story. This red herring of going after immigrants is something that the left pushes to frighten people and protect undocumented democrats.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       02-11-2017, 9:49 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by diamonddad View Post
I agree. Hope he learns from this. It should have been more carefully drafted and explained to the country. The arguments presented in court were weak too but those should have never been necessary.
Yes, quite apart from not being fit for purpose (It doesn't make the country one bit safer), it was just poorly written and implemented. From what i see of trump from the outside i don't think he has the self reflection to recognise his mistakes, all he sees is other people fighting him. Confrontation is the only tool he has and it doesn't work as well in government as it does in business.
Old     (diamonddad)      Join Date: Mar 2010       02-11-2017, 10:05 AM Reply   
Trump wants to win and he wants to do good for this country. His good may be your bad but it is true. I think he will learn. IMO, the biggest problem is CNN. Their smearing will not stop and liberals heads will keep exploding. It's horribly tiresome. The press says they are doing the right thing because they are the "watchdog" yet it is all drama and not real analysis of anything. Have you seen a in depth report on TPP and what it means to cancel our participation?
Old     (diamonddad)      Join Date: Mar 2010       02-11-2017, 11:00 AM Reply   
Regarding the 7 country ban. Have you seen an in depth analysis of those countries? The state of their government? The reliability of their Visa program? The rates of terror? The volume of radicals? No. Our media is fire fanning drama. Pathetic.

Last edited by diamonddad; 02-11-2017 at 11:03 AM. Reason: x
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       02-11-2017, 11:04 AM Reply   
This is kind of off topic, but I was wondering What makes a person want to be a Social Justice Warrior or a Social Libral. These people that want our tax payer money to support their social agenda. "America First" Should be people's social agenda. NOT how can we help you. Obama said in a 60min's interview "we are the worlds 911" and I agree but Why? Example "What can you do for America" NOT what can America do for you. Why did the Dems Loose their hero (Kennedy)'s war cry. I think it was brilliant.
Make America Great Again, to me a movement, that I hope empowers & brings us all together, America First, there should be no shame in wanting the best for your team. I think every county should have the same priority. Improve your country threw pride and nationalism. I have no problem with the M.E. wanting what they want in "their own country" same go's for Europe and the U.K. Wave your flags be a proud nation. Make your country what ever you want it to be.
IMO our county has been Hyjacked by foreign Intrest. America has become the worlds largest bird feeder. Hopefully this non-sub stainable practice is comming to a end. Social Librals have Hurt this country.
Old     (bass10after)      Join Date: Feb 2010       02-11-2017, 12:56 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wake77 View Post
Conservatives do the same thing that you seem to be against. If you say you don't agree with Trump's latest immigration policy, then you are "For open borders". I have never agreed with every action from any of the presidents that have served since I have been alive, so why am I demonized for disagreeing with Trump's current immigration bills? I support his move to back out of TPP.

touche. There shouldn't be absolutes and assumtions like that made.. a shame that it turns into this giant thing where you have to take sides. I just think the hysteria surrounding his every move gets so blown out of proportion because hes "racist" etc. I haven't confirmed this but i've heard if you enter into mexico illegally you get arrested and theres fines and jail time... We've all heard about what its like being arrested in mexico too. I like that hes turning the tables on these countries that take our aid and our debt for granted. It comes on the backs of all of us.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       02-11-2017, 5:57 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by grant_west View Post
This is kind of off topic, but I was wondering What makes a person want to be a Social Justice Warrior or a Social Libral.
I think there are many different reasons for different individuals so there isn't a lot to be gained by lumping them all together and say they are all the same thing and have the same motivation. That said, if your personal value is tied to fighting for those that can't fight for themselves maybe the brain gets a bit disconnected and all you do is fight for"injustice" without really analysing how people end up in poor situations and without considering personal responsibility.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       02-12-2017, 5:52 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by diamonddad View Post
Regarding the 7 country ban. Have you seen an in depth analysis of those countries? The state of their government? The reliability of their Visa program? The rates of terror? The volume of radicals? No. Our media is fire fanning drama. Pathetic.
You do realize that entry visas are granted by OUR government, NOT theirs, right?
Old     (diamonddad)      Join Date: Mar 2010       02-12-2017, 10:40 AM Reply   
Quote:
You do realize that entry visas are granted by OUR government, NOT theirs, right?
Yes. I travel to Shanghai and Bangalore every year for work. In China, I see no import cars since there is a massive tax to protect their work force. In India, my Visa application identifies my religion and any connection to Muslim countries and then my hotel checks the car and my bags every day because of Islamic radicals.
Old    TheWakeIsReal            02-12-2017, 11:30 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by diamonddad View Post
Yes. I travel to Shanghai and Bangalore every year for work. In China, I see no import cars since there is a massive tax to protect their work force. In India, my Visa application identifies my religion and any connection to Muslim countries and then my hotel checks the car and my bags every day because of Islamic radicals.
You must really hate capitalism. You are really starting to sound like a communist here eh?
Old     (diamonddad)      Join Date: Mar 2010       02-12-2017, 11:38 AM Reply   
I love capitalism. Not sure where you pulled that crap from.
Old    TheWakeIsReal            02-12-2017, 12:25 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by diamonddad View Post
I love capitalism. Not sure where you pulled that crap from.
A massive tax on imports? I think you need to look up what capitalism is.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       02-12-2017, 12:44 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by diamonddad View Post
Yes. I travel to Shanghai and Bangalore every year for work. In China, I see no import cars since there is a massive tax to protect their work force. In India, my Visa application identifies my religion and any connection to Muslim countries and then my hotel checks the car and my bags every day because of Islamic radicals.
OK I just didn't understand how an analysis of their visa programs would protect the safety of the USA? Like the fact that you identify your religion to go to India... does that make us safer or less safe? Not sure I'm following...
Old     (diamonddad)      Join Date: Mar 2010       02-12-2017, 1:08 PM Reply   
Do you think capitalism precludes taxation to level a competitive playing field?
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       02-12-2017, 1:40 PM Reply   
its hilarious that the Libs think it's duty of the US to provide for the rest of the world. One sided trade deals NO PROBLEM. Like Dane said it's common in other countries to pay a huge tax for US made items to be brought to other countries. Right off the bat this practice needs to stop.

Here is a Idea. I say we treat people from other countries the way the would treet us. Example if your from Mexico and you want government assistance or medical attention we say No problem we will give you the exact benifits you county gives US citizens. If your from a country that has universal health care great we will take care of you just as your county would take care of us if we were in your home state
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       02-12-2017, 3:08 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by grant_west View Post
One sided trade deals NO PROBLEM. Like Dane said it's common in other countries to pay a huge tax for US made items to be brought to other countries. Right off the bat this practice needs to stop.
That's how trade deals work G, two countries agree to either drop or run the same tariff on goods from each others country. Unequal "huge tax" happen when you don't have a trade deal.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       02-12-2017, 3:11 PM Reply   
Free trade has been awesome for NZ, we can produce a lot more food than we can eat but don't have a large enough market to develop our own cars and electronic goods. So we can specialize in high quality meat and dairy and others can specialize in kick arse cars and phones. There is zero point in us trying to develop a car industry etc here, we just don't have the market conditions or raw materials to let us do a good job at it.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       02-12-2017, 3:18 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by diamonddad View Post
Do you think capitalism precludes taxation to level a competitive playing field?
IMO, Yes (Warning: My opinion is not valued by some...). The playing field is best to be unlevel because the host country just ins't well suited to producing those types of goods. It doesn't do the host consumer or economy any good to have a local structurally inefficient industry propped up by the government distorting the market. Long term it is better for the host economy to divest itself of things it is poor at.

If the economy embraces this philosophy and moves towards being the best at what it is well suited to rather than hold on to things it is crap at then the whole economy benefits.

Here ends the idealistic free market lesson.
Old     (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       02-12-2017, 5:52 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by diamonddad View Post
Do you think capitalism precludes taxation to level a competitive playing field?
True capitalism? Yes.
In our quasi-capitalistic society who most claim is truly capitalistic? No.
Old     (bass10after)      Join Date: Feb 2010       02-12-2017, 9:52 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
Free trade has been awesome for NZ, we can produce a lot more food than we can eat but don't have a large enough market to develop our own cars and electronic goods. So we can specialize in high quality meat and dairy and others can specialize in kick arse cars and phones. There is zero point in us trying to develop a car industry etc here, we just don't have the market conditions or raw materials to let us do a good job at it.
have you ever lived in the us or been here before? my apologies if its been mentioned before- i understand the world looks to see our president but i haven't the slightest clue about NZ and i'm not sure if i lived there i'd have much care about the US either.. Just curious why you'd enter into US politics discussion
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       02-12-2017, 10:27 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by bass10after View Post
have you ever lived in the us or been here before? my apologies if its been mentioned before- i understand the world looks to see our president but i haven't the slightest clue about NZ and i'm not sure if i lived there i'd have much care about the US either.. Just curious why you'd enter into US politics discussion
No, never lived there but traveled there a few times over the years. Travel to Europe every year for business and asia for holidays every couple of years.

Why do I follow US politics? I just find it fun mostly but NZ is a cork on the ocean, the rest of the world dictates to some degree how we bob up and down. I think kiwis also have quite a global outlook because we tend to travel alot, and our own playground is small.

Also the arrogant **** in me thinks an outside view is important to Americans stuck in their own bubble.
Old     (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       02-12-2017, 10:43 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by fly135 View Post
What's your source of inside information? There was absolutely nothing in that article that amounted to fabrication. It would be incredibly hard to prove that Rush didn't think he was being racially profiled. The investigation concluded that he wasn't, but that doesn't mean he was fabricating the belief he was. If you don't have any more than that article to justify your complaints, then you are more delusional in your accusations than Rush.
Same US Rep Bobby Rush complaining he was profiled and embarrassed because he never violated traffic laws to attract police. .................yup that's his "governement leased "Lexus RX 450 with government plates ( that of course the tax dollars pay for......a Lexus ) parked in an immediate tow zone on a fire hydrant yesterday. So much for being "racially profiled ". I am sure it was an emergency of epic proportions

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Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       02-13-2017, 12:08 AM Reply   
Might get to see The Dons tax returns after all:
http://m.dailykos.com/story/2017/02/...-s-tax-returns
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Texas       02-13-2017, 12:15 AM Reply   
That dumbass Flynn is the bigger story.
Old    TheWakeIsReal            02-13-2017, 7:46 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by diamonddad View Post
Do you think capitalism precludes taxation to level a competitive playing field?
Again, what does level playing field sound like? Definitely not like capitalism. This is the best part of the Trumpers. "Make America Great Again", by completely changing what America stands for.
Old     (ord27)      Join Date: Oct 2005       02-13-2017, 8:13 AM Reply   
how is that any different than Oblummer saying, early on, that he is going to redistribute wealth? He used that mantra until apparently his handlers made him stop saying it
Old     (plhorn)      Join Date: Dec 2005       02-13-2017, 8:59 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
Also ... me thinks an outside view is important to Americans stuck in their own bubble.
Couldn't agree more. Nothing dumber than hearing "America is the greatest country on earth" coming out of the mouth of someone who has never been any where else.
Old    TheWakeIsReal            02-13-2017, 10:26 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ord27 View Post
how is that any different than Oblummer saying, early on, that he is going to redistribute wealth? He used that mantra until apparently his handlers made him stop saying it
I don't have an issue with it. I voted Bernie. You think I'm a capitalism guy? No haha.

I'm laughing at all you conservatives with your small government logic supporting this ****. We love capitalism and small government! But want the government to regulate the market. You guys are ****ing classic here.
Old     (diamonddad)      Join Date: Mar 2010       02-13-2017, 10:58 AM Reply   
Mr smarty pants is proud of himself for pointing out the pointless point that capitalism in theory is not entirely capitalism in practice.
Old    TheWakeIsReal            02-13-2017, 12:39 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by diamonddad View Post
Mr smarty pants is proud of himself for pointing out the pointless point that capitalism in theory is not entirely capitalism in practice.
Stick to your conservative values while telling everybody that the market needs to be regulated by the government with taxes LOL.
Old     (diamonddad)      Join Date: Mar 2010       02-13-2017, 1:39 PM Reply   
You can keep trying to put me in your box. It's laughable.

Capitalism is harnessed greed. Greed is the fire hose of innovation and production. Regulation controls the fire hose. Without regulation, the sierras would be paved and your house would fall down. Smart regulation is important. Graduated taxation to redistribute wealth is social engineering and a form of socialism. I think many are OK with this provided the rates are not too extreme. At some point, excessive taxation on income will simply eliminate the income. Not many people want to work for less that 50 cents only the dollar. Trade with equal partners should be "free". Trade with unequal partners should be "fair". Free trade with poor partners is likely bad trade. A trading partner with cheap labor takes jobs. A trading partner without wealth does not buy your products. Who wins that deal? Free trade with partners who treat you unequally is stupid trade (e.g. China taxes imports or de-values their currency). Trump understands this. Most DEMs can't do math and most REPs are stupid free trade purists.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       02-13-2017, 2:57 PM Reply   
There is a lot of wisdom in what Dane says. The important point is finding the balance to encourage divestment from inefficient industry's at an orderly rate to prevent collapse of the labor market. The economy is just such a complex thing that most people don't have anything like enough information or smarts to decide what the best path is. It doesn't help when commander in chief reduces all problems to build the wall or Muslims bad.
Old     (plhorn)      Join Date: Dec 2005       02-13-2017, 4:03 PM Reply   
Back to a previous debate that was never finalized. Does anyone honestly think that spending 25+ Billion on a Wall that the border guards say will not make a difference, that can be defeated by a HomeDepot ladder or shovel is a good use of taxpayer money? Keep in mind that 40% of the current illegals got here by airplane.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       02-13-2017, 4:12 PM Reply   
Hell yes a wall is a good investment. I remember when the "talk" of the wall first hit the Media. The Pope chimed in and said "Trump should build Bridges not walls"
LOL. I say Pope why don't you take Down all the Walls that protect Vatican City. Take in all the immigrants that you say the U.S should take. I love if these "Peope" telling us who or what the US stands for as if Mark Zuckerburg speaks for us all and Built a huge wall around his home in Hawaii. Hypocrisy
Old     (plhorn)      Join Date: Dec 2005       02-13-2017, 8:13 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by grant_west View Post
Hell yes a wall is a good investment. I remember when the "talk" of the wall first hit the Media. The Pope chimed in and said "Trump should build Bridges not walls"
LOL. I say Pope why don't you take Down all the Walls that protect Vatican City. Take in all the immigrants that you say the U.S should take. I love if these "Peope" telling us who or what the US stands for as if Mark Zuckerburg speaks for us all and Built a huge wall around his home in Hawaii. Hypocrisy
Since you are for the wall, explain to me how an illegal wont just buy a ladder for 50 bucks to defeat this $25 billion waste of money? and what about the 40% that got here by air?
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Texas       02-13-2017, 9:02 PM Reply   
Barely 3 weeks in and this clown car cabinet of incompetent, unethical idiots ya'll elected is already starting to unravel. Bye bye Flynn.
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Texas       02-13-2017, 9:19 PM Reply   
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/13/u...mwrsm=Facebook
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Texas       02-13-2017, 9:46 PM Reply   
Imagine for a moment - and be honest about congress and not necessarily your own feelings on the matter - that this was Hillary Clinton's National Security Advisor resigning, less than a month into her term, after undermining US policy towards Russia and then lying about it. How aggressively would Republicans in the house be investigating what Clinton and everyone around her knew, and when they knew it?

That is exactly how aggressively they need to be investigating the Trump White House now. The House has subpoena power for a reason. It's time to use it.
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Texas       02-13-2017, 9:59 PM Reply   
Classic - it's as if this guy reads right out of the Grant & Mark Hypocrisy Playbook, especially at 1:30

Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       02-13-2017, 10:14 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by plhorn View Post
Back to a previous debate that was never finalized. Does anyone honestly think that spending 25+ Billion on a Wall that the border guards say will not make a difference, that can be defeated by a HomeDepot ladder or shovel is a good use of taxpayer money? Keep in mind that 40% of the current illegals got here by airplane.
You libbies keep talking about these "Home Depot ladders." How many Home Depot's are there in Mexico? Also, the current, accepted, agreed upon number of illegals in this country is 11,000,000. I'd say discouraging the remaining 60% of that with a wall is a good start. Unless you support open borders, you should have nothing against any preventive measures taken to secure our borders just like slick Willy and Obama gave lip service to. If you do support open borders, I suggest you post your own personal addresses and advertise your openness to welcoming your "new friends" into your own homes.

To me, the idea of a wall won't absolutely stop illegal immigration, but it will slow it down enough to give border patrol a buffer of time to respond.
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Texas       02-13-2017, 10:25 PM Reply   
"The potential ramifications of the Flynn saga deepened as Monday night wore on. It emerged that the Justice Department warned the White House last month that Flynn had not been truthful about the calls with the Russian envoy and could be susceptible to Russian blackmail."
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       02-13-2017, 10:32 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by pesos View Post
"The potential ramifications of the Flynn saga deepened as Monday night wore on. It emerged that the Justice Department warned the White House last month that Flynn had not been truthful about the calls with the Russian envoy and could be susceptible to Russian blackmail."
I've been pretty keyed in on weather and flood stuff here in NorCal so this whole Flynn thing has gone right over my head, but it seems like it's a good thing he's gone. Good on the Trump admin for "letting him go" right?
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Texas       02-13-2017, 10:35 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by markj View Post
I've been pretty keyed in on weather and flood stuff here in NorCal so this whole Flynn thing has gone right over my head, but it seems like it's a good thing he's gone. Good on the Trump admin for "letting him go" right?
I'll let you get caught up. The DOJ warned the White House LAST MONTH that Flynn was compromised and now a potential Russian blackmail target due to this, and they still kept him in this position of power and privy to all natl security council meetings. Check out the story and give your honest assessment about what you'd be saying if it was Hillary or obama's natl security adviser. Goes straight to Trump's judgment and credibility.
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       02-13-2017, 10:37 PM Reply   
I mean, if someone in the cabinet is lying to the VP, he's gotta be punted pronto. Genuine transparency is what we want and need. We were all promised to be seeing that for the last 8 years and saw none of it. Not a stitch.
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Texas       02-13-2017, 10:40 PM Reply   
Lol, transparency is sitting on this intel for a month and letting Flynn run the natl security council knowing all this? Bravo on the quick spin.

The reality is that given how this administration operates, its likely this is bad and deep for them to actually can the guy this quickly. Interesting that they did it with an email and not a proper press conference (plus they ducked questions about it all day and planted their own hand picked reporters for there only two questions the press were allowed to ask at the press conf today). You have an interesting definition of transparency!
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       02-13-2017, 10:41 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by pesos View Post
I'll let you get caught up. The DOJ warned the White House LAST MONTH that Flynn was compromised and now a potential Russian blackmail target due to this, and they still kept him in this position of power and privy to all natl security council meetings. Check out the story and give your honest assessment about what you'd be saying if it was Hillary or obama's natl security adviser. Goes straight to Trump's judgment and credibility.
Yeah I'll try to look that up when I get time.
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Texas       02-13-2017, 10:43 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by markj View Post
Yeah I'll try to look that up when I get time.
Stay dry in the meantime.
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       02-13-2017, 10:43 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by pesos View Post
Lol, transparency is sitting on this intel for a month and letting Flynn run the natl security council knowing all this? Bravo on the quick spin.

The reality is that given how this administration operates, its likely this is bad and deep for them to actually can the guy this quickly. Interesting that they did it with an email and not a proper press conference (plus they ducked questions about it all day and planted their own hand picked reporters for there only two questions the press were allowed to ask at the press conf today). You have an interesting definition of transparency!
Hey, don't be a Richard. I'll look it up when I get time.
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Texas       02-13-2017, 11:30 PM Reply   
This may be the start of what the republicans have been waiting for - a chance to legitimately get their man Pence into the top seat.
Old     (plhorn)      Join Date: Dec 2005       02-14-2017, 8:11 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by markj View Post
You libbies keep talking about these "Home Depot ladders." How many Home Depot's are there in Mexico?
Markj, do you honestly believe that Mexico is a country that doesn't have access to ladders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by markj View Post
To me, the idea of a wall won't absolutely stop illegal immigration, but it will slow it down enough to give border patrol a buffer of time to respond.
As much as I respect your VAST experience is controlling borders, the actual BORDER PATROL has publicly said that it won't make any difference. What is it with Republicans not respecting the opinion of actually professionals? When you see a doctor do you try to give him advice on how to tie a suture?
Old     (diamonddad)      Join Date: Mar 2010       02-14-2017, 8:54 AM Reply   
It will be a strategic wall...

http://www.npr.org/2017/01/26/511745...mps-wall-plans
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       02-14-2017, 9:03 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by markj View Post
You libbies keep talking about these "Home Depot ladders." How many Home Depot's are there in Mexico?
Looks like a few: http://www.homedepot.com.mx/comprar/...del-hueso/home
Old     (plhorn)      Join Date: Dec 2005       02-14-2017, 10:19 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by diamonddad View Post
This link is an interview with the border patrol guys. They are not part of the white house. The white house is talking about building a physical, crazy expensive and borderline useless wall, they are not talking about a strategic wall.

I'm all for a strategic wall designed by border patrol agents. That actually makes sense, what the white house is proposing is just plain STUPID, and their isn't a nicer way to say it.
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Texas       02-14-2017, 10:26 AM Reply   
The admin's wall talk is all just bluster and misdirection at this point, as is 85% of the stuff coming out of this white house. They are already hamstrung by their illegitimacy and incompetency.

Our spies have stopped sharing any serious intel with them as they knew it was at risk of being fed directly to Russia. Even the republicans in congress can no longer avoid the Russia question and investigations are getting kicked off today (again, this may be just what they need to get Trump out and Pence in, and stop the drain on their brand and credibility).


http://observer.com/2017/02/donald-t...ssian-embassy/
Old     (diamonddad)      Join Date: Mar 2010       02-14-2017, 11:16 AM Reply   
Trump's deal making scheme is to ask for X and get Y where X is outrageous and Y is sane. This way he gets Y vs asking for Y and getting Z. We have see this all the time but you must see it through the huge dust up created by the liberal (Trump Smearing) media.

Last edited by diamonddad; 02-14-2017 at 11:17 AM. Reason: xxx
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       02-14-2017, 11:22 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by diamonddad View Post
Trump's deal making scheme is to ask for X and get Y where X is outrageous and Y is sane. This way he gets Y vs asking for Y and getting Z. We have see this all the time but you must see it through the huge dust up created by the liberal (Trump Smearing) media.
The liberal media fog is very thick near me. Who are you saying he REALLY wants as National Security Advisor?
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       02-14-2017, 12:30 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by plhorn View Post
Markj, do you honestly believe that Mexico is a country that doesn't have access to ladders?



As much as I respect your VAST experience is controlling borders, the actual BORDER PATROL has publicly said that it won't make any difference. What is it with Republicans not respecting the opinion of actually professionals? When you see a doctor do you try to give him advice on how to tie a suture?
No. I was just saying I wasn't aware there were Home Depots in Mexico. Was that not clear enough for you?

As for what the border patrol thinks, why was Trump the FIRST presidential candidate they've ever endorsed? What has changed on Trump's part since he became president? It doesn't seem like he's tryin to do anything different than what he campaigned on.
Old     (diamonddad)      Join Date: Mar 2010       02-14-2017, 1:25 PM Reply   
The LEFT never heard his campaign positives since CNN spent 100% of their time propping up Obama/Hillary and smearing Trump.
Old     (plhorn)      Join Date: Dec 2005       02-14-2017, 1:41 PM Reply   
Trump holds a security briefing in a restaurant with waiters stopping by and people taking pictures.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...=.2d7f4dad7285

Seriously, if Hillary did this you Republicans would be asking for her head in a basket.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       02-14-2017, 1:45 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by plhorn View Post
Trump holds a security briefing in a restaurant with waiters stopping by and people taking pictures.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...=.2d7f4dad7285

Seriously, if Hillary did this you Republicans would be asking for her head in a basket.
Chaffetz to investigate (three words I never thought I'd type in that order): http://www.politico.com/story/2017/0...ecurity-235011
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       02-14-2017, 1:46 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by diamonddad View Post
The LEFT never heard his campaign positives since CNN spent 100% of their time propping up Obama/Hillary and smearing Trump.
Campaign is over. From my vantage point in the fake news fog, the Trump admin currently seems like a chaotic $h!tshow. Have their been any successes that I've missed? I'm not even talking about the introduction of policy initiatives. Let's even allow the benefit of the doubt with a day without a new misstep being a success.

I guess we could go with "Got ICE to perform their jobs"?

Seriously man, I'm developing outrage-fatigue (and would be kinda happy if Trump backed down to a semi-competent but nevertheless abhorent policy agenda), but the white house keeps on ratcheting up the F ups.

Trump's pooping on the intelligence community doesn't seem to be doing him any favors either.
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Texas       02-14-2017, 1:50 PM Reply   
Our spies are convinced the national security council if not Trump himself is basically compromised by Russia and has started withholding intel from them. $hit$how is right - but certainly not surprising when you stack your cabinet and advisory staff full of incompetent fascists and don't bother to put them through any kind of ethics vetting. BUT OOGA BOOGA SHAHIM THE 5 YEAR OLD FLEEING BOMBS IN SYRIA IS GONNA GETCHA!

http://observer.com/2017/02/donald-t...ssian-embassy/
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