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Old     (eubanks01)      Join Date: Jun 2001       09-03-2009, 11:00 AM Reply   
So I am nervously contemplating attempting my first batwing this evening. Tips?

I have been told two ways to learn these...just go for it first try and work up to it by just drifting your TS indy a little bit at a time. What do you all think works best? Do you really think about keeping the handle in tight the entire time as well as in the air? Do you have to consciously turn the nose down in the air so that you aren't doing a toes up batwing?

The first attempt is always nerve racking. I just don't know if I will head dive, catch an edge, flip over, etc. I guess we'll find out...if I find the balls to try one!
Old     (andy_nintzel)      Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Minnesnowda       09-03-2009, 11:31 AM Reply   
Well for me this trick was horrible to learn. I dont want to scare you but the There was a lot of hooking my HS edge and slamming backwards. Until it clicked.

What clicked was the proper edging technique. This is very critical. For me I take a shorter super fast appoach with a lot on weight on my front foot. I would say like 75% front foot, 25% rear foot. Not as extreme as like a TS 7 but similar. I really try and push my front foot into the wake hard, this helps get the board to swing back. I actually let go with my rear hand even before I leave the wake. I like to grab mute, or tail. Once your up really it kinda automatic (at least for me) as it snaps back down like a raley does. Chest over your toes and ride away clean.

When I learned these I went right for it, I didnt try and drift a bit more each time, I have seen people get just worked trying it this way! So would say that its necessarly a safe way to learn the trick.

Good luck man I hope I didnt really freak you out, once you get its crazy fun!
Old     (xbones)      Join Date: Mar 2007       09-03-2009, 11:35 AM Reply   
I started drifting my indys. The take off is pretty important... its like a "scooping" motion on the lip of the wake and I focus on pushing/opening my chest to the water... then close the window. Mine don't drift as far back as I'd like yet... but these are the motions that got me started.
Old     (eubanks01)      Join Date: Jun 2001       09-03-2009, 11:43 AM Reply   
Well Andy, I'm having second thoughts now! haha Yeah, I am afraid of trying to drift them more and more would get me hung up with the board back behind me. I very much do not enjoy the HS edge catch so this trick has me freak out a bit. Maybe I should tackle something else first!
Old     (j_money)      Join Date: May 2006       09-03-2009, 11:56 AM Reply   
Eubanks,

dont let it scare you man this trick can be learned in a day easy! do some TS shiftys and make sure you push the handle out to the wake you came from! so if your a regular footed rider youll push the handle off to your left side when you leave the toeside wake. Once you get the shifty consistant throw in an indy grab. Once you got the shifty with an indy grab do like andy said and stomp on the wake with your front foot on take off. It kicks the board behind you a lil and if you practiced the shifty first it will all come together and youll be floatin some rad lookin batwings!!! Go in with the mind set your gonna stick it and you will!!! Good luck! post pics when you hit it!!! :-)
Old     (eubanks01)      Join Date: Jun 2001       09-03-2009, 12:03 PM Reply   
Thanks Jesse. Do you not mean a FS shifty? For a regular footed rider pushing the handle to your left would be a BS shifty right? I know Learn Wake had some drills for learning these where you would do a bunch of TS FS shifty's with just your front hand on the handle. Maybe I should try some and see if that helps first.
Old     (kamighazi)      Join Date: Nov 2008       09-03-2009, 12:25 PM Reply   
Eubanks, im in the same boat man... ready to put out it out there but nervous as hell! I think I'm going to try them with a wakeskate (like a puss) and huck myself for a while, so i can get the feel and muscle memory.

Alternatively, I'll most likely toss a few a these this weekend behind the boat full of women as too show off like a typical idiot

(Message edited by kamighazi on September 03, 2009)
Old     (eubanks01)      Join Date: Jun 2001       09-03-2009, 12:31 PM Reply   
Let me know how it goes Ben. I'm a bit undecided about my attempts tonight. If all is going well I might throw one and see what happens.
Old    supraguy            09-03-2009, 12:31 PM Reply   
Been trying them and havn't been rocked yet. I am just drifting my Indy grabs back futher and futher each time. I have done one good one so far and they are super fun. I was taking a long edge into it but after what Andy said I will try a shorter attempt.. Good luck guys and who ever lands it first gets a gold star..
Old     (lfrider92)      Join Date: Sep 2008       09-03-2009, 12:35 PM Reply   
a batwing is my favorite trick to watch. they look so sick

Just saying
Old     (kamighazi)      Join Date: Nov 2008       09-03-2009, 12:35 PM Reply   
there you go... i like competition. THAT GOLD STAR IS MINE!
Old     (j_money)      Join Date: May 2006       09-03-2009, 1:33 PM Reply   
Eubanks,

Exactly what you saw on learnwake is what im talkin about TS FS shifties! ;) youll have it dialed by sunday if you start throwin em tonight. Its just water dude... I know the jury is still out on helmets but when i try somethin new i throw one on for confidence and in my case and my opinion its saved me some head shots so just a thought if your worried about the hit... :-)
Old     (andy_nintzel)      Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Minnesnowda       09-03-2009, 1:38 PM Reply   
Jesse is correct its a one day learn on it.
Old     (romes)      Join Date: Sep 2006       09-03-2009, 2:06 PM Reply   
i'm a big puss when it comes to this move. BUT i've been tryna get the feeling for them by doing big o/a halfcabs.

i'm gonna try some tonight tryin andy's approach.
Old     (allen)      Join Date: Apr 2005       09-03-2009, 2:08 PM Reply   
JR where are you guys gonna be? I have to see this!!! Were gonna be out tonight too.
Old     (romes)      Join Date: Sep 2006       09-03-2009, 2:20 PM Reply   
you know where we'll be at...do we ever go anywhere else? i was tryin some earlier this year w/ scotty but got onto this toe 3 and switch kick and left it. but i think its time to bring it back.
Old     (andy_nintzel)      Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Minnesnowda       09-03-2009, 2:23 PM Reply   
Short and Fast Approach for me, try and really bring it up!
Old     (wakeparent)      Join Date: Jan 2005       09-03-2009, 4:00 PM Reply   
Drifting indy grabs are called jr. batwings!
short,quick approach and let it rip,
I landed the first two, it's the third one that rocked me, I thought I hadem down. Don't ride scared...Good Luck
Larry
Old     (kamighazi)      Join Date: Nov 2008       09-03-2009, 6:03 PM Reply   
chicken wing!
Old     (nsolis220)      Join Date: May 2007       09-03-2009, 6:44 PM Reply   
ya josh i was telling you those half cabs are super close to looking like a batwing. I remember the last one i saw you try wasnt to far off.
Old     (gherk)      Join Date: Aug 2001       09-04-2009, 2:40 AM Reply   
So how did it go? I've been trying to work up the courage for this trick too.
Old    alanp            09-04-2009, 3:01 AM Reply   
i tried these last summer. i went for the ts raley first though i landed a couple of ts raleys but was never able to get the board back with a grab for the batwing. the crashes werent too bad, not as bad as learning a hs raley. go for it!
Old    supraguy            09-04-2009, 7:22 AM Reply   
remember guys have to have the picture to prove it, that is the only way you get the gold star. I hope I get a set in today if not Sat am ...
Old     (andy_nintzel)      Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Minnesnowda       09-04-2009, 7:40 AM Reply   
Lets here some success or horror stories, any body try it out yet????

After posting I rode last night and thought, hey lets try a Switch Batwing no body does those.....turns out there is a reason no body does them, its super hard and hurts super bad. But hey look at it this way if you want a super good way to crash hard on your back, look no further than a switch batwing, just go for broke! I promise a horrible slam! HAHAHAHAHA
Old     (eubanks01)      Join Date: Jun 2001       09-04-2009, 8:25 AM Reply   
No attempts last night. I only got one set in and our lake was completely blown out. :-( I'm hitting it tomorrow morning though and might try one if the rain holds off. Rain is forecasted here for most of the next 10 days!
Old     (romes)      Join Date: Sep 2006       09-04-2009, 8:30 AM Reply   
uhh it was crap out...i figure 15-20 mph winds is not good weather to be attempting this...

i think i got my head wrapped around the approach tho, and for me thats always the biggest hurdle when learning something new. once i can picture it in my head and it doesnt feel ratard then i'm on it...

yo nintzel i know you do methods to blind so i'm gonna ask you ab this. i've tried a handfull of these and i feel like i'm gettin close but i feel like i'm doing something wrong off the wake cuz when i go from method to regrabbing the handle its way far away from my body and i'm pulling to blind with my arm way out just askin to get hammered...where are you positioned coming off the wake? handle position that is..
Old     (allen)      Join Date: Apr 2005       09-04-2009, 8:44 AM Reply   
So I didn't try any but i figure im only two month off of surgery so I can wait till next year.

JR it was nice where we were, You guys just have to be willing to commute a bit. Tonis had butter his whole set.
Old     (romes)      Join Date: Sep 2006       09-04-2009, 8:48 AM Reply   
yea well we all aint ballers like ya'll...you can only commute so far on 5 gallons and still have enough gas to make it back!! haha. you get my text ab the winch?
Old     (kamighazi)      Join Date: Nov 2008       09-04-2009, 8:58 AM Reply   
Man y'all got me super pumped, im def gonna grip it and rip it tomorrow morning.

Come on down to Dunlap Eubanks, morning is always butter and afternoons/nights are always a ton of fun. about 20 aggies in the group, you'll fit right in.

Andy, I like your style bro, nuttier than squirrel turds. I would lay a brick in my shorts thinking about a switch batwing.

I'll be sure to post up with manyana's results.
Old     (andy_nintzel)      Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Minnesnowda       09-04-2009, 9:06 AM Reply   
Jr (romes)

I got you man. Methods to blind are all about the handle as is any trick to blind. Really on the Method to Blind the Key is making sure the when you swtich hands back on the handle you dont let your are out. This really just comes from practice, its almost second nature on a big method to let your arm out to square back up for the landing, you really have to just traing your muscles that your not going to die by keeping the arm in tight. What I do to help with this is, once I switch the handle back to my lead hand I push it down towards my arse. That helps keep the handle in tight and low so I can land blind. I dont try and pass this one, I land blind.
Old     (romes)      Join Date: Sep 2006       09-04-2009, 9:12 AM Reply   
yea i'm not trying to pass. i want to land blind and stay blind. i'm gonna stick this soon. thanks buddy...

and like i said when you're over bein in MN come on out to norcal cuz we'll still be riding...hell we can even go to tahoe and get some laps in the snow and then come back and hit wake!!
Old     (eubanks01)      Join Date: Jun 2001       09-04-2009, 10:33 AM Reply   
So you guys posted some tips about a short, aggressive cut but what about leaving the wake and in the air? Do you have to force the board back there or do you just let it drift a little bit? I assume you keep that front arm locked at 90 degrees the entire time and don't let it get out straight right? To bring it down don't you just pull the handle back down to your butt or almost back to the wake?
Old     (andy_nintzel)      Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Minnesnowda       09-04-2009, 10:46 AM Reply   
Sorry Eubanks,

Really at the wake its sort of a scooping motion with your font foot I kinda almost feel like I am scooping the nose of the board off the wake and sort of changing edge on the way up. Once in the air dont let your arm out, I keep mine at 90 degrees. I go for the grab before I even leave the wake. In the air I really try and push my rear foot forward toward the 2nd wake, this keeps you up and down more vertically, so your not doing a half-TS backroll batwing. To bring it down just pull the handle you your butt. Its a lot like a raley in the sense that once its out you just pop it back in.
Old     (eubanks01)      Join Date: Jun 2001       09-04-2009, 10:59 AM Reply   
Thanks Bro. That helps a lot. I see one of two things happening. I will either throw it too much like a TS backroll and land on my head or I will get it back there and then bury the nose on the way down resulting in some major whiplash. I hope there is a third option of actually getting back on the board though!
Old     (andy_nintzel)      Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Minnesnowda       09-04-2009, 11:02 AM Reply   
its not that bad. just huck it if you get stuck you can actually sorta dive into the water.
Old     (eubanks01)      Join Date: Jun 2001       09-04-2009, 11:05 AM Reply   
Yep, I'm almost hoping to do that on the first one just so I can get the feeling of getting it back there. The problem comes when you try to get it back down and come up a couple of inches short!
Old     (andy_nintzel)      Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Minnesnowda       09-04-2009, 11:15 AM Reply   
Nothing says wakeboarding more than a good old edge catch!
Old     (eubanks01)      Join Date: Jun 2001       09-08-2009, 7:20 AM Reply   
UPDATE: Who tried them over the holiday weekend?! I tried about 5 consecutively. The first couple were nervous attempts not knowing what to expect or how the crashes would go. Well, I landed on my back basically the first few times so the crashes didn't hurt at all. This gave me a lot more confidence in trying some more, but at the same time I know they didn't hurt much because I wasn't that close to getting the board back under me.

The next few I started to get the boarc back under me, but I was still coming up a bit short. I will try to get some video up this week. My main thoughts in critiquing my own video was that I was letting my front arm get stretched out a bit too far, and I also wasn't loading up near hard enough.

On most of my attempts the board would just stall out behind me. I'm wondering if this is due to a lack of line tension. I was definitely loading but just not nearly as hard as videos I've been watching of others do this trick.

I think Andy has a good point about the shorter approach. I wasn't getting out super wide but wide enough that if I really charged it super hard my cut was long enough that it would have sent me 10+ feet out into the flats. I wasn't real pumped about doing that in my first attempts. Hopefully you guys will have some pointers once you see the video.

Anybody else?
Old     (andy_nintzel)      Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Minnesnowda       09-08-2009, 10:29 AM Reply   
Eubanks,

Make sure to keep that handle in and your arm at like a 90-

Way to step up and toss some batwings man! Props!!!!
Old     (johnm_ttu)      Join Date: Jul 2005       09-08-2009, 11:00 AM Reply   
This thread inspired me to revisit the Batwing. The problem I have is that I can't get seem to get the board to snap behind me. The harder I edge the flatter my trajectory any tips? This picture was the best one of about six tries. As you can see I am not getting much height, but I am getting distance. Video would be more helpful I know.Upload
Old     (eubanks01)      Join Date: Jun 2001       09-08-2009, 11:11 AM Reply   
Well, at least you are getting them back in! I was getting them up over my head and stalling out. Yours looks pretty good. What kind of edge are you using?
Old     (johnm_ttu)      Join Date: Jul 2005       09-08-2009, 11:16 AM Reply   
On this one I edged in progressive, but hard and really heavy on my front foot.

I also tried a more tail heavy approach that seemed to get the board out behind me more, but I couldn't bring them back down.

I definitely do not get a raley feel on this trick yet.

(Message edited by JohnM_ttu on September 08, 2009)
Old     (kamighazi)      Join Date: Nov 2008       09-08-2009, 11:39 AM Reply   
Yeah so i only got 2 crappy water runs in this weekend. I only hucked a couple on account of junk water. One felt pretty good going up but laned on my back. The rest looked a lot like that picture, def didnt feel like a batwing. Starting short felt good except im having trouble wrapping my head around the release off the wake. Do i simply let it kick me up and back, or should i push off with my front foot?

in any case, im def going to try a lot more this week. the falls actually felt pretty good, but i haven't caught an edge yet.
Old     (romes)      Join Date: Sep 2006       09-08-2009, 12:15 PM Reply   
Nintzel is the scoop like you'd do on a ts backroll? landing this tonite.
Old     (mallenger)      Join Date: Jun 2006       09-09-2009, 6:10 AM Reply   
guys, I don't/can't do batwings so I don't have any advice...but, check out my profile picture for some inspiration.
Old     (mattgettel)      Join Date: Jan 2009       09-09-2009, 8:46 AM Reply   
thats a thing of real beauty mallenger
Old     (lostkgb78)      Join Date: Oct 2005       09-09-2009, 1:39 PM Reply   
Retro... Edge like a ts raleyUpload
Old     (jayroe65)      Join Date: Dec 2008       09-09-2009, 5:31 PM Reply   
Jarret ask jake how to do them, it his signature trick.

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