Ballast Overflows - Bags at Different Heights Help

Hey all -

First my question, then background. I have a pair of Fly High Pro X Series Tube Sac - 10"x16"x62" - 370 lbs in rear of my boat. One is under the rear seat, and one is in the rear ski locker.

The issue is that if they are connected, the top sac drains into the bottom sac. I am using one Simer reversable pump on five sacs total. All the rest are on the floor. I may add another pump and try to spread the load a little bit.

Right now there is a valve on each sac and I have to run around the boat and open and close one sac at a time to fill or drain. The pump can handle more than one at a time, but if these two are both open, the top one won't fill, but just keep filling the bottom sac.

The rear two sacs are also different sizes than the front two sacs and the surf sac, they don't finish at the same time.

I am planning on adding overflows on all the sacs, and then adding a second pump. Three sacs on one pump and two on another. I am thinking that seperate these two rear sacs and put them on different pumps it may solve that issue.

We have two sacs in the rear, two in the bow, and one surf sac on the port side floor. If we are filling the rear port surf sac for surfing, we do not fill the nose starbord sac.




Here are the two rear sacs. I am going to try linking the front port sac with the rear ski locker (high) sac. We'll see if they could be linked.

If the sacs get too full, the seats pop up, and the ski locker pops up. I want to make sure the overflows are at exactly the right height. When I see other people's systems, they put all the overflow through-hulls together in the same spot near the rub rail. I am thinking mine should be as close to each sac as possible.

Maybe I'll put two through-hull fittings on the starboard side on the nose, then put one thru-hull very high near the rub rail on port side for the higher ski locker sac. Then I would have to have the other through-hull for the sac beneigh the rear seats to be much lower on the starboard side hull of the boat. Wouldn't it look funny next to one much higher??? If I put the lower through hull on the starboard side, at least when we are surfing the list of the boat would keep it high out of the water. Wouldn't be an issue though since all overflows will have one way check valves.

Has anyone else ever ran into this issue of having ballast sacs at different heights???????

Also, please link me to CHEAPER check valves !!

Thanks all!

Help please!

I'm thinking of adding the anti-syphon piece but I am not sure how that will work with a reversable pump since it would suck air into the drain line I am assuming?

http://www.bakesonline.com/detail.aspx?ID=994

Help me out please!

Mikey, I'm thoroughly confused... is it draining from one sack to the other trough the fill/drain lines, or an overflow? Sounds like you haven't plumbed overflow valves yet so probably the fill/drain lines... and if so, if you have shut-offs at each bag, why couldn't you just close them after filling? I don't think I get it.

I have three 1" check valves that I'll sell you cheap if you want them. They are these:
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/producte/10001/-1/10001/20331?&cid=chanintel&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=20331

Wait, I think I understand...! As far as my limited ballast knowledge goes, I think you will need to put them on different pumps, or just not fill them at the same time.

Thanks for replying Cal. The pumps are reversable and there are no vents YET, so it is two sacs connected by one fill/drain line.

When I turn off the pump, the top sac will start to syphon down into the lower sac until it is VERY full. Even if it had a vent, I'm sure it would drain the whole top sac out the lower vent if it were not stopped somehow.

I'm going to order the anti syphon and start experimenting since this is a topic that I can't find much on by searching.

Hello anyone out there... I am thinking that my tee is too close to the sacs. Maybe if I teed my the fill/drain line near the pump (raised as high inside the gunwale as possible, also using the anti syphon valve) it would help. Pump is under the spotters seat so it's about a 5' run. Right now the top sac is teed right above the lower sac. It wants to drain right into it.

I have another problem, my sac that is on the floor, I need it to have the vent/overflow very low on the side of the boat. It will keep the sac from pushing up the rear bench seat cushions. This will be almost a foot below the rub rail. I have yet to do tests and see how high the overflow line can be, but I am worried. I was thinking I would put it on the starboard side, since we surf port side 90% of the time and it wouldn't be underwater while surfing portside or when wakeboarding. What are your thoughts? I may make a new thread because it looks like the title of this one is some kind of black hole no one wants to read... THANK YOU!!!

I hope you get some answers from people, I have the same setup going in my boat in the next couple of days. I dont understand if you have the T between the back two bags with valves on each one how does it drain back into the bottom one? Also I was going to run my vents off of both back sacks, with a check valve right before they go into the Y then to the through hull. I thought if I ran both vent lines with the check valve on both before they go to the t it would keep them from draining into each other and only push water and air out, not in. If you get any info on the problem let me know. I just got my pump and sacks.

Mikey, your idea to raise the pump might work, so long as you install one of those vents in the line to keep it from syphoning... worth a shot, I guess?

Or do you have any manual ball-valves installed? You could install one just before each bag and fill them one at a time, and close the valve to keep the water from flowing between each other.

Hey guys thanks for commenting.

Chris, my system uses reversable Simer pumps, so the fill line is also the drain line. The two rear bags are directly connected with no check valves between them, or else they would not drain.

The system currently has manual ball valves on every sac. This is something I trying to eliminate.

I do not think it is possible to vent two sacs off of a shared vent line if they are not the same height. The low sac cannot have a vent thru hull that is too high, or it will not vent without great pressure. The high sac cannot have a vent thru hull that is too low, or the entire sac will drain out the thru hull. They won't bleed into each other with check valves, but they won't work effectivly.

Cal I was not planning on raising the PUMP off of the floor, I was planning raising the single TEE fitting as high off the floor (inside the gunwale) as I am able.

So the pump will be on the floor, hose comes out of pump and then up. Tee is at the highest point (and is very close to the pump). Then there is a fill/drain line run for each sac.

The old way had just one main line, and then each sac was teed off near the sac. This way will have the sacs teed very near the pump.

I'm really not sure if this will do the trick and I am seriously considering springing for TWO more Simer pumps. This would allow me to put the two bow sacs on one pump, the surf sac and rear seat sac on one pump, and the rear ski locker sac on one pump. This would give me much better fill times as wel - I think two pumps would still be pretty slow in this system. Just not sureeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.......

I used to fear the same thing (having the vent too high), but my belly sack's vent is just under the rubrail, about 2' higher than the top of the sack, and it works fine.

I don't see any way around this problem without having dedicated pumps, or valves to isolate the sacks.

OK guys thanks I think you are right trace. I have been researching more and obsessing a lot! It needs to be complete! I will be ordering two more Simers.

That will allow me to put one on the front two sacs. One on the rear locker sac. One on the rear seat sac shared with the surf sac.

I will go ahead and put a thru-hull pickup in - any advice on what size? I'm thinking 1.5". Muchroom, not scoop, right? Flat on bottom of hull somewhere, not within 6" of anything else.

Need to find brass fittings and etc, and I am assuming I will need to build a manifold of some type. I will try to stay away from PCV as I've heard it can crack. Metal or maybe large hose would do a good job.

Good choice, Mikey. If it were me, I'd install independent 1" mushrooms for each bag. If you installed a 1.5" mushroom fitting that splits to the two new pumps, I'm sure that would work well too... heck, you could probably run all three pumps with a 1.5" thru-hull. I have one bag on a Jabsco reversible with a 1" thru-hull and 1" tubing, and I think it's overkill... and I could have saved a lot of money with 3/4". Oh well.

Mushroom pickups work best with Simers, and scuppers work best with aerators. 1.5" will be plenty. www.marinehardware.com is a good source for brass.

Trace I saw your link for marinehardware in another thread...Not sure I am viewing their site correctly. I see no catalog, no online store... is the only way to order just to call them?

For the single Simer we have it teed off the raw water pump with a 1" tee. I may try hooking them all up to the 1" just to see how the flow is. If I went this route, or course I would not will with the engine on. I have heard others post with 3 simers on the raw water intake without problems.

I know it's not a popular answer but I have all my sacs, fittings and tubing alreay to hook up three pumps. Looks like well over $100 for me to add another through hull, so I will try this way first to appease the boss. Sorry!

trace thanks for commenting on your belly sac with the high vent. Good to hear. However, I would guess that your sac can be full in the space with no issues. My sac is larger than the space and if it over fills it will pop the seats off of the rear bench seat. No big deal, but that won't work well. The sac would need to be full to force overflow water up the tubing. I am thinking of duct taping the extra sac material, or rebuilding my back seat again to make it larger.