Got Pop?

I am new to this addicting world and need some help getting decent 'pop'. Having lurked here for a while and seeing the thoughtful responses (well, most of them anyway!), I thought maybe I could get a little help...

I get the progressive edge thing, and I keep hearing ‘stand up at the top of the wake’. My question is, how do these both co-exist? It seems when I go to stand up at the top of the wake, the board flattens out and the edge is lost. Should I be standing up vertically or kinda backwards away from the back of the boat to keep the line loaded (if I am using that term correctly)? Or should I just forget trying to stand up until I can figure out what the hell I am doing?

Lean back a bit as you stand tall and make sure you hold your handle into your front hip. Leaning back will help keep your center of gravity over the board while you're in the air. You'll know when you do that right because you'll feel centered or neutral in the air, not like the boat is pulling your upper body forward in front of the board. Also, make sure you are edging up the wake and don't stand tall until you reach the top. I had a tuff time with this too.

WARNING: Longest single post in Wake World history (maybe) I had a lot of fun with this one, typing it up and all¡K almost like poetry ƒº

In my opinion, "standing up at the wake" is a way to tell people that they don't have to jump when they get to the tip of the wake. Many people coming from different boarding (or other sports) backgrounds have the misconception that they must jump to get that "extra air."

The thing that makes wakeboarding (jumping) more difficult is the lack of recognition that the surface is a surface that gives (not pavement or packed snow) and that the ramp is not stationary (the ramp is actually moving and has a very giving surface)

Lets make a comparison:
I know that the wording is not much different in meaning or visually, but maybe it might help, but I¡¦d prefer to call it "STANDING TALL at the wake." ...It's almost like getting a "Spring" on a trampoline. I say "SPRING" instead of "jump" because, if you actually try to jump on a trampoline like you would on the ground, you cant, or at least wont get very high (speaking of the first jump... or "spring") On a trampoline you will start your first "Spring" by squatting or bending your knees then pushing against the trampoline mat by extending your legs and body, OR "STANDING TALL" so to say, causing you to "spring/ pop" upward.

NOW, this is only one way of describing this ¡§pop thing.¡¨ Remember that this is merely a comparison, and all comparisons have their differences or flaws to that being compared. I hope this will help you visually.

Getting ¡§air¡¨ is a perfect companion of progressive EDGE and POP. It might help you to put more focus on the Pop and getting it down and comfortable before adding it to the equation of Edge + Pop = Air. Try some 5 ft. cuts from the wake and then try wider and longer cuts from there. You can even try these techniques from inside the wake, jumping out. Watch others, live and on video. Try several different things, different points of view while paying attention to what ¡§feels good.¡¨ Go outside you comfort zone when trying these ¡§different points of view.¡¨

I bet you are like most of my friends who were starting out. Let me guess, you favor your heel- side? and you hardly ever try to get air on your toe-side? If this is true, I would challenge you to pursue your toe side jumps more often. You may discover that your ¡§pop¡¨ (or maybe your progressive edge) is actually unconscientiously better on that side. IF SO, you will FEEL it. It is hard to describe Exactly what you will feel, but I promise you, you will recognize it. This FEELING you will never lose (like the feeling you got when you first got up on the wakeboard.) and you will be able to utilize it on your heel side pop.

I have known three people who fit the circumstance above PERFECTLY. These three include me, myself and two other friends. The first time I jumped wake to wake, it was toe-side! I never discovered why I was different (jumping toe-side before heel) till I recognized that my beginner friend¡¦s toe-side edge and form was quickly progressing, surpassing that of his heel-side edge. His toe-side edge was awesome as he cut out, preparing his heelside jump, but cutting back in for the jump could not compare. As soon as he wrecked (as usual) I jumped up excitedly like I scientist who had discovered a secret formula, ¡§Eureka!! I¡¦ve done it.¡¨ I told him to try jumping toe-side instead, and shared with him my observations. He got at least a whole foot higher than he ever did previously, and you could see it on his face, everyone in the boat could see it, that he FELT it and was FEELING it. It was so incredibly awesome to see how something just Snapped inside him. He wasn¡¦t the same anymore. He immediately transferred to the other side to try out his new-found feeling on his heel side again. Everything was impressive; cut, pop, air. Needless to say, he cleared the wake for the first time that day and stuck it! My other friend was a similar story, except he was already clearing the wake¡K he just got better air after ¡§Feeling¡¨ it.

Everyone will learn differently and everyone will have their own "style" of pop... though the differences may be so subtle you would have to "look at it though a magnifying glass," like fingerprints. Even everyone has their own distinct style/way of doing a deep water start. Wakeboarding is truly amazing how personalized it can get!!! or at least how I see it.

Maybe something else someone will say later will be more helpful and/or will be added to what I have already said¡K or maybe something I will have said will clarify something said to you before. On this point I will copy and paste a step by step I wrote for wake-jumping, progressive edge and stuff.

Wake Jumping & The ¡§Progressive Edge¡¨:

It is easy to be deceived to think that the faster you hit the wake the more air you will get. A need to jump at the top of the wake to get more height is also a false idea. Wakeboarding is unlike any other boarding sport in the aspect of jumping in that the surface gives and is in constant motion.
Wake Jumping requires a determined cut, lacking hesitation. The problem is that many people get out on the water, cut out really far, then start immediately to cut toward the wake. While this may generate a lot of speed it also leaves more opportunity for hesitation, intended or unintended. Wake jumping requires a Progressive Generation of cut, speed and power and energy. The hardest and fastest cut should occur right at the wake. The tension on the line should also be its tightest at the wake. This is all summarized into the wakeboard vocabulary, ¡§Progressive edge¡¨ and ¡§Loading the line.¡¨ When you rich the lip of the wake you want to stand tall off the top of the wake¡K There is no need to bend and jump like a leap frog off the top of the wake. A ten foot cut will do nicely for a general wake jump.
It Helps to visualize the swinging path of a pendulum and compare it to the top view of a wakeboarder¡¦s path. When a pendulum swings to either side it slows to a near stop then begins to swing the opposite direction gaining speed rapidly and Progressively.
The pendulum reaches its highest speed as it approaches its straight down position. The string is also tightest at this position. Your approach to the wake should resemble the path of a pendulum.
If all is done correctly, again, the tension in the line should be tightest right at the wake and your fastest cut for that specific cut, right at the wake also. Extend your knees and stand tall as you ride up the tip of the wake. Once in the air, be sure to lower/ keep the handle at your waste for better balance and weight distribution.



Here is a little something extra:

Heel Side Back Roll:

The Heel Side Back Roll is one of my most favorite tricks. At my level and wakeboarding experience it is the most technical aerial maneuver that I can perform consistently. Besides this being the most impressive move I can throw I love it also for its natural fluid and near effortless flow. The Heel Side Back Roll is suggested by pros and trick manuals to be the first of all flips tried. If you are like me you may have seen this trick on T.V. or in videos or on your local lake and were baffled by the path of rotation. Like me you may deceive yourself to think that a front flip would be easier. Tragically I lost precious time of development attempting a flip that was beyond my understanding and sacrificed myself to much disappointment.
After having been convinced by a friend I gave up my denial and made a daring attempt at the Heel Side Front Roll. As I expected, the rotation felt rather bizarre¡K yet natural and comfortable despite I under rotated the flip. The crash was soft and I was impressed with the strongest determination and confirmation that I would land this flip TODAY! After 4 more attempts, on my fifth try I nailed the landing smoothly as if I had never left the water¡K almost as though I was riding a tube or loop of water.
*FIRST: Deny yourself of all hesitation due to a worry about crashing. (A face plant during any surface maneuver will more than likely sting more than any position you may crash in during a heel side back roll.)
*SECOND: This is not a trick that you need a lot of energy, speed, height, and/or distance for. All you will need is enough speed and pop to clear both wakes- about a 10 ft cut.
*THIRD: This is NOT a flip that you need to ¡§bend¡¨ ¡§huck¡¨ or ¡§throw¡¨ like you might a front or back flip on a trampoline. All you need is an ear to the shoulder really (back ear to back shoulder)
*FOURTH: Keep the handle at your waste area. (IMPORTANT IN MOST ALL ASPECTS OF WAKEBOARDING)
*FIFTH: Edge All the way up the wake. Do not begin the rotation prematurely, before leaving the tip of the wake.
*SIXTH: Keep your knees bent (no more than if you were in a chair, unless you plan to add a grab)
*SEVENTH: Maintain the same body position and edge and hold on for the ride

I like to think of it like you were edging and riding up the wake as if it were a tube or a loop of water. Just maintain body position and hold on for the ride.


This is old, but its roots are deep and always true and helpful;

Date: 4/8/01
Author: Jason Buffalow
It usually happens when you set out to step up your game. You're trying to add a new move to your bag of tricks, so you seek the advice of those who have gone before. Inevitably, their instructions will be based upon some basic terms that you've probably heard a million times. However, has anybody really defined them? Without knowing the true meanings of these basic building blocks, the mastery of that new maneuver may prove elusive. Here I will break them down as simply as I can.
Progressive Edge - The best way I can describe this is to think about your board being completely flat on the water as a 0, and your board being perpendicular to the water as a 10. For this concept, forget everything else like wake, speed, board shape, etc. The idea of a progressive edge is to go from 0 to 10 as slowly as possible.
Now, throw a wake into the picture. You are still going from 0 to 10, but you only have enough time as you have cut out for. For example, take a five foot cut (a few feet outside of the spray) and STOP! that is 0. Slowly start drifting into the wake, increasing the angle of the board (toes toward your face if you're heelside) as you approach the wake. When you arrive at the wake, the board should be close to perpendicular to the water (not the wake). In reality, the board will actually be closer to 45 degrees (which would be a five on our 0 to 10 scale) to the water on most normal tricks. The key to a progressive edge is taking everything slow!
Loading the line - The loading of the line comes from a progressive edge. Since you are pulling away from the boat, tension is generated tension between you and the boat, just like a tug-a-war with the boat. This is called line tension. You'll know if you've got it because at the top of the wake, right before you release, you will feel a lot of pressure on the rope. This increases on the tricks like Raleys, where you have tons of progressive edge and TONS of line tension.
All tricks require some line tension. The key is a solid, slowly-built edge. A great way to get a feel for it is to drive someone that can really ride. The boat will slow as they approach the wake and speed up as they get airborne. A great rider doing a big trick will pull the boat super hard to the point that the driver needs to speed up during the trick. Someone who is not practicing this will jerk the boat and you will not see the speed change at all.
Standing Tall- At the peak of the wake before take off, you want your entire body to be as straight up and down as possible. If you are crouched over and bent at the knees or at the waist, you will lose everything you built up. Remember, the way you leave the wake is the way you will land, so if things aren't going right then check your landing. Most people bend at the waist or pull up there knees as they ride up their wake and it kills their pop.
So for that solid wake jump, follow these steps. Cut out five to ten feet and STOP! Drift in while building your edge and hold it all the way through the wake. Keep your arms in, back straight, and stand as tall as you can when you leave the wake. Let the board and wake do all of the work and for God's sake, hold on!

WOW! Thanks Jeremy. A lot of what you say rings true with me. I definitely prefer heelside and haven't worked enough on toeside because I thought that I'd need to learn heelside first. The trampoline seems like a good visual for me as well. Now, all I have to do is wait for March to arrive in Chicago, take this print-out, and hit the ice cold water.
One last question... should I try to leave the wake with the board at a '90 degree' angle to the water and wait to get the board under me in the air? I have watched a lot of video, but it always looks like even the pros flatten the board out before they leave the wake. They just make it look so effortless.
Thanks again for the 'poetry'. I can't wait to try it all out.

get "The Book" DVD, that wil give you some great tips!!

Jeremy,
Seriously some of the best info I've read on understanding pop and getting more air.
thanks

Your position in the air should be similar to when you are riding on the water... almost like a continuous cut through the air as if you never left the water. This helps your balance in the air and will also set you up for the landing. You do not want to make the mistake of landing with the nose pointed toward the boat, if you do this, than the board will slide out sideways.
While in the air it is good to level out the board parallel with the water so that there will be less wind resistance (not that it will make a whole lot of difference in this aspect), it will look better (better form and balance) and MOST IMPORTANTLY- it will be better for landing.
I had allot of problems (and still do at times) with taking off with the nose up in the air. Granted this will happen on many jumps when initially leaving the tip of the wake. Once fully in the air try to level out the board by distributing your weight more evenly. My mom (who has never wakeboarded) helped me a lot to level out my board by giving me friendly reminders and ideas. You would be surprised the kind of ideas and pointers you can get from those who have no desire to wakeboard but have all the desire to watch you. I Love my Mom! Moms rock. So have someone watch you from the boat and point out when you need more weight on that front foot while in the air... But not too much or you will do a nose dive ;) I must digress for a moment and take back any impression that I might have made that you don’t want your nose in the air. There are plenty of times where an INTENTIONAL nose in the air for a grab or other trick is perfectly awesome. Again, some of your biggest airs may initially start with the nose up (especially off a wicked double up... ohh man, now there is another page of poetry just for that)

Now with all that said I must mention my other problem of mine that sneaks up on me and that I see too many making a bad habit of: Letting go with one hand. Again, letting go with one hand is perfectly fine as long as it is INTENTIONAL and fashionable or grabbing and tweaking something. Try not to let you back hand flail around every time you jump desperately trying to grasp ahold of some imaginary hand for extra balance. This is especially hard on toeside jumps... It is more difficult to maintain your edge through the air on a toeside jump too do to the "awkward" body position. (Getting back to maintaining edge through thee air) I find that handle position is KEY to not flailing your arms. Keep the handle in the waist area that is closest to the boat. On a heel side jump, this handle position is almost completely natural, but on topside, the handle will be right near your leading hip... almost where your hip and but fuse. After doing it a few times it will seem more natural. When you can clear the wake both topside and heel side and land with both hands on the handle, that is when you know you are doing GOOD. THEN you can really grab the board any way you want because you will have begun to understand the key of handle positioning. (I am still trying to master this one) with this knowledge you will figure out 180's... that is if you haven’t done it already accidentally. Almost everyone does their first 180 unintentionally when the handle ends up accidentally roaming toward the back hip. It is sooo funny to watch beginners do this, and even funnier when they succeed with a wild expression on their face.

chris & eric~
glad i could help so far

ive heard alot about "the book" DVD, though i have not seen it. I would still recomend it too. I have other instructional videos, including Detention and they are helpful for me and my friends, if not atleast really fun to watch.

Definately invest in an instructional DVD
ask for it for Christmas!
it will help durring the cold months too

One last thing before today's end... ABOVE ALL THINGS THAT EVER CAN BE SAID--- HAVE FUN. Dont focus so hard on anything i or anyone else tells you that you can't enjoy yourself. let it flow, hear the spray of the water, enjoy the rippled reflections, enjoy WAKEBOARDING

Jeremy

It is nice to see people taking the time to write such full answers to the questions asked by new people to the sport. I have only been boarding for short time and this post really helped me. Well it has in my head anyway, we shall see next time i hit the water.

I would like to say that I have been really surprised (why I am not sure) at what a great bunch of people wakeboarders seem to be and how much camaraderie(sp) there is amongst fellow riders.

Really nice to see.

I have seen alot of this "camaraderie" this last season myself.
I recently got married and so i no longer live with my parents during the great summers in lakepowell (arizona side) and i can no longer munch off the boat and gass and rides.
I now live in utah with all the necissary equipment to go wakeboarding MINUS THE BOAT

SO i grab up all my gear and head out to the nearest lake (Utah Lake state Park) which is like a big giant bowl that gets no deeper than 10-15 feet. I sit by the boat ramp with a book in hand (sometimes wakeboarding material) to entertain myself. sometimes bring a jump rope and do some stretching to soak up the waiting time... Waiting for what you ask? Waiting for a family who has extra room on their boat who are willing to take some strange poor married college student for a ride. I do get alot of rejections, but i have never gone home dry in all the 10-15 times i did it this summer. (except once when i decided to go last minute in the day on a monday afternoon/evening when lots of families get together... don't go on family night) I always offered gas money, but surprisingly it was always refused at the end of the day, even with the gas hike in price. Everyone was usually happy to say it was worth the show (though i am timid to agree do to being a little too humble about my skills. granted i can do a heelside backroll, but thats about the limit on inverts. I can get alot of air, but am too much of a panzy to do anything with it... though one of the families stoked me up enough to try an air railey which later put me in the chiropracter's and massage therapist's office. They said my back was tensed up as if i had been in a car accident... but it was worth it...)I also always helped towel down the boat. I just really Love and am passionate about this sport. But i guess that is obvious with the evidence of these posts. ... i think the reason some people really enjoy the "show" is because maybe they can sense my joy... and my other theory is that i am fairly balanced when it comes to Hellside vs toeside. I have seen so many boarders out there who can do so much more than me out there but who can hardly jump toeside... its really weird and a little annoying. This is kinda one reason why i have said not to let your heelside overpower your toeside so much. Its so much more fun to jump, jump, jump,jump.... than to jump, ride over the wake, jump, ride over the wake, jump....

Now if we could just combine my boat and lack of ability with your ability and lack of boat...!

OK, one last (I hope) question... Should I take the fins off the board or leave them on until I am consistantly getting that pop?

(Message edited by newchicago on November 20, 2006)

well I Live in Tenerife in the Canary Islands. (you are probably thinking where the f''k is that?) Well it is just off the coast of Africa. If you are ever here and want to go to Pantalon 4 Puerto colon where I berth my boat you are welcome to come along and ride with us. I could sure do with a lesson!

Chris, when I was learning to edge and just starting to ride I took the fins off to learn how to edge properly. I was told to learn to edge without the fins, then when I am comfertable with that and starting to work on tricks, like I am, I put the fins back on for a better grip on the water when I land. I would suggest taking the fins off to help you learn edging, then you can put them back on if you want or ride loose.

Dan is right about the fin thing. Fins do act a little like a "crutch"riding without them my help your edging... afterall, this is why hyperlite and ronix both have the "snowboard" style boards with no fins or texture whatsoever on the bottom... i would love to ride it some day

what board do you ride anyway chris?
If the board is relatively modern with some nice channels and/or molded in fins then i would DEFINATELY say to take 'em out, BUT, if the board is not so much "textured" on the bottom, then maybe a shallower fin, might be better.

Thanx ya all for the offers to go boarding. I would especially love it this time of year when withdrawls are killing

I have a CWB Flame 141. There are small molded fins on the corners. Looks like I'll try with the fins out (I like the surface spins anyway, so that should make them easier).

Thanks again for your in depth responses. It really helps us newbies out.

I hear you on the withdrawals!!

Jeremy, if you ever come out Sonoma County way during the boarding season, give me a shout. We'll give you a pull.

Thanx
We will see what the future brings.... for all of us for that matter...