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Old     (ed_g)      Join Date: Nov 2005       09-18-2006, 10:09 AM Reply   
anyone know of any online special deals on sacs?

I am in need of about 400 lbs additional ballast.
Old     (caskimmer)      Join Date: Apr 2006       09-18-2006, 10:17 AM Reply   
no knowledge of any deals but while on the subject of adding ballast...I really like the Launch Pad Link Block XL(150lbs.) and the Fly High Fat Brick(155lbs.) for their ability to quickly refine the wake. The Launch Pads are also only $50 and are very easy to fit just about anywhere in the boat and stackable.
Old     (clubmyke)      Join Date: Aug 2004       09-18-2006, 11:28 AM Reply   
ed,

i dont know what you are looking for. but steel shot bags make a big defference vs water ballast.. it really firms up /clean up the wake..
Old     (ed_g)      Join Date: Nov 2005       09-18-2006, 11:36 AM Reply   
Thanks for the suggestion!

To clarify, I am specifically looking for a deal on water sacs
Old     (clubmyke)      Join Date: Aug 2004       09-18-2006, 11:50 AM Reply   
check out jacob on ebay.. he has the fly high xseries ballast sacks..


http://stores.ebay.com/Jacobs-Extreme-Watersports
Old     (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       09-18-2006, 4:25 PM Reply   
Caddy what are you trying to say, steel or lead has a different effect than water? I think you should take a class in high school physics.

Suppose you have a boat that is one pound away from sinking. Will the boat sink faster if you add a pound of lead or a pound of feathers, what do you think?
Old     (caskimmer)      Join Date: Apr 2006       09-18-2006, 4:43 PM Reply   
Yes a pound is a pound regardless of it's makeup but water moves around and lead doesn't which is an important factor in maintaining a consistent wake especially in less than ideal conditions.
Old     (pickle311)      Join Date: Oct 2005       09-18-2006, 6:07 PM Reply   
the water doesn't really move if it's in a sack that's full.

I highly suggest the fly high pro x bags, they are very tough, I also have 3 of the launch pad XL blocks. They work great, but are very thin when compared to the pro x bags.
Old     (the_right_kind)      Join Date: Oct 2005       09-18-2006, 6:26 PM Reply   
How about this?

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?whse=BC&topnav=&prodid=11136764&ec=BC-EC8386-ProdID11136773&pos=0F
Old     (cassetteboy777)      Join Date: Aug 2006       09-18-2006, 8:11 PM Reply   
hahahahahahahaha, costco- comes through in the clutch
Old     (clubmyke)      Join Date: Aug 2004       09-18-2006, 8:22 PM Reply   
ed,

to very specific = yes, steel bags has a much different effect than water in ballast and this is for numerous reasons (i use both and have noticed a difference when i try to subsitute water for steel)


1. water ballast is good for weighing down a "general area"

2. steel in bags are much more "weight specific" ie you can drop a tremendous amount of weight in a very small area if needed or visa-versa. you can also really dial in your wake... it is pretty amazing what 2 bags (40 lbs each) can do to dial in a wake (try doing that with water ballast)..

3.not to mention it doesnt move or shift with boat movement ( i even use the fly high pro x series.)

4.steel weight "firms up/clean up" the wake vs. water ballast ( this is my experience..ymmv)

5."i suspect" that water ballast bags really when filled up weigh alot less than specified...steel bags weigh 40 lbs each....

i have tried both ways while wakeboarding and prefer adding steel bags over water ballast..my wake board total ballast weight for my 211 is only 1200 lbs and 1600 lbs for wakesurfing and both are very, very good...


alot will depend on where you ride and how much room you have in your boat... i would be very cautious about using alot of steel weight in a lake/river where there are large rollers...

(Message edited by clubmyke on September 18, 2006)
Old     (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       09-18-2006, 9:06 PM Reply   
OK I'll buy part of that reasoning. I've got 270 lbs of home made steal pop bags and tower mounted 80 lbs of weight. I put this weight as far out board as possible to amke thje boat list hard, the tower weight takes the concept to an extreme.

I don't think that I've really seen any fat sack sloshing dynamic in my wake, maybe with an Enzo sack.
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Old     (clubmyke)      Join Date: Aug 2004       09-18-2006, 9:20 PM Reply   
btw, i do have a 4 year college degree and took a fair amount of higher math and physic courses before i switched majors

the big thing with the bags are you can actually mold the weight bags to fit in tight spots... we noticed a difference in how they we placed them (front vs. side)..

i really think the ballast bags weigh less than speced...i will be testing this theory in the future and will post pics..

btw, i really like the weights on the tower... very good idea..

here is our setup for the nautie 211..

- 8 bags pop products lead along the side of the hull in the rear strarboard locker
- 4 bags in the center starboard locker (simulate a person sitting on the pad) i
- 4 bags along side the driver area
- 1 350 lb flyhigh sac as far back in the rear locker
- 1 350 lb flyhigh sack where the rear jump seat is (slide the seat forward)
- 1 150 lb flyhigh fat brick in the bow on the side are riding
- factory starboard ballast (250 lbs)
- 2 peeps for ballast and driver

total estimated ballst weight of 1700 lbs (1100 lbs is water (approx. 65%)

(Message edited by clubmyke on September 18, 2006)
Old     (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       09-19-2006, 4:54 AM Reply   
Caddy, Sorry but the way the one post read just made me chuckle inside, a pound is a pound is a pound.

However, placing my 80 pounds of barbell weights one foot off the center line only gives me 80 foot pounds of torque on the boat, but placing them on the tower, about 4 feet off the center line gives me 320 foot pounds, a big difference. We no longer have our big guy hiking out to make a good wake.

My set up includes:
230 lb stack center tank
270 lb pop bags
750 lb fat sack in port locker only filed for regular
750 lb fat sack in starboard locker only filled for goofy
750 lb fat sack behind the driver (net ~700) or under the bench (net 300 lb)
80 lb tower mounted barbell weight
40 lb sand

Not counting crew, gas, or other equipment:

Total regular: 1670 lb

Total goofy: 2070 lb
Old     (clubmyke)      Join Date: Aug 2004       09-19-2006, 7:13 AM Reply   
ed,

not a problem... i agree with on a pound is a pound.. how and where it is placed makes the biggest difference is the world.

btw, i've got to see how i can get weights on my tower... that is the slickest setup i have ever seen.
Old     (newoldskool)      Join Date: Dec 2005       09-19-2006, 8:29 AM Reply   
hey ed i have a 440 launch pad i will sell you for $70 shipped like new conditionUpload
Old     (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       09-19-2006, 9:31 AM Reply   
It was pretty simple to make, well if you have tools and a tower like mine. The wood structure is supported by the lower front to back tube on the tower. I used U-bolts to clamp to the tower. I carved the ends of the 2x4s so they go around the tower a bit, providing lateral stability.

I didn't paint the weight racks, when it rains the wood swells up, making it hard to get the clips on and off.

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Old     (hoookwake)      Join Date: Sep 2005       09-19-2006, 3:30 PM Reply   
Not Smart adding any weight other than water! If your boat was ever swamped, the water bags would be a non factor in sinking the boat, iron or sand etc however will sink your boat to the bottom.
Old     (clubmyke)      Join Date: Aug 2004       09-19-2006, 7:17 PM Reply   
ed,

thanks for the detailed pics... really appreciate it..

looks like i have a new boat project ahead...
Old     (ed_g)      Join Date: Nov 2005       09-20-2006, 4:05 AM Reply   
Ed, by chance is that a Ryan home I see in the background?


ed
Old     (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       09-20-2006, 5:06 AM Reply   
Ed G.

Were, not original owners, buying in to the neighborhood about 10 years after it was established and I'm not in the real-estate business so I can't be certain. I think Ryan is in Columbus, but one of the bigger builders locally is MI homes. I had an offer to work in Maryland last year but the cost of housing near Baltimore was more than three times the cost here; that’s a large part of reason why we stayed put. The house across the street has a full or half basement, about 2,000 sq ft, and would probably sell for something just over $200,000.
Old     (ed_g)      Join Date: Nov 2005       09-20-2006, 7:55 AM Reply   
I got a $1 that says that's a Ryan home.

Looks exactly like a house my wife's parents bought in 1975. Even same color.

Ryan is everywhere around Ohio and Pa.

My parents owned one of his first designs. I worked for Ed Ryan while in High School - Pittsburgh area.

Ryan is famous for value, quality and his ability to make use of eevery square inch.

Housing market here in Orlando is hot, hot , hot.

I bought my house (brand new)in 2001 for $147K.

1850 sq feet and 1/2 acre yard. I could list it today for $325K.

My sister lives in Montgomery, Oh (Cinti area) she bought her huge 3500 sq foot house in 1988 for about $250K and today it's only worth about 300K.
Old     (shelstad)      Join Date: Oct 2005       09-20-2006, 8:08 AM Reply   
Somebody should buy these and be sure to tell me how GREAT they are...lol..what next is wal mart going to be in competition with our local/online dealers?
http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?whse=BC&topnav=&prodid=11136764&ec=BC-EC8386-ProdID11136773&pos=0FUpload
Old     (shelstad)      Join Date: Oct 2005       09-20-2006, 8:29 AM Reply   
Sorry for that last post. But caddywampin, I agree with Jacob's on eBay. He sells all of our referb. Pro X stuff at a good price...and the sacs have the same warrenty as NEW!
Old     (dentard)      Join Date: Apr 2006       09-20-2006, 12:39 PM Reply   
This has a pretty good warranty, and most likely will sink the ass end of my boat pretty well Upload
Old     (shelstad)      Join Date: Oct 2005       09-20-2006, 1:30 PM Reply   
CURTIS come on, he was looking for a cheep solution! That blond is skinny w/ a nice rack and would prob. cost about $500 per hour.
Old     (waketac)      Join Date: Apr 2002       09-21-2006, 7:31 AM Reply   
A ton of water and a ton of lead still is the same weight. At the same place in the hull it doesn't make a difference.
Waterballast will become neutral, when boat is filled with water. With lead, concrete or sand weight the boat will sink to the ground.
For the sake of the boats handling weight should be placed as low in the hull as possible.
Weight on the tower doesn`t seem such a good idea.
Old     (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       09-21-2006, 8:33 AM Reply   
Wakemark, you're right in that weight is weight, however, placement of that weight is critical. I can put more weight near the gunnels if that weight is a dense solid than I can with water. More weight near the gunnels applies more torque to the boat and make it list harder. I'd rather have less weight but far out board than more weight near the centerline of the boat. On my boat I need to get the rub rail, and more in the water.

On my boat the percentage of non-water ballast compared to water ballast is relatively low, I'm not worried about sinking the boat.

Weight on the tower has given me really good results. We used to have our big guy hike out on the side of the boat. That's a minor safety issue, but it also doesn’t help the big guy when he's surfing.

I've kept the amount of tower weight fairly low, only 80 pounds. At one foot off the center line the weights only give you 80 foot pounds of torque, but at four feet off the centerline you get 320 foot pounds without adding more weight, that's huge.

As far as handling and weights mounted up high, I’m also very unconcerned. I have a 3000 pound boat with as much as 200 pounds of ballast at or below the water line. 80 pounds on the town is not going to flip it over.

We can't all afford Enzos, I'm making do with what I've got.
Old     (clubmyke)      Join Date: Aug 2004       09-21-2006, 8:37 AM Reply   
btw, i weighed out a fly high fat sac and it did weigh in as speced..

waketac - there is quite a bit of differnce between how the weight is distributed between water and lead..
Old     (ed_g)      Join Date: Nov 2005       09-21-2006, 8:42 AM Reply   
Where I come from $500/hour is cheap!

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