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Go Back   WakeWorld > >> Boats, Accessories & Tow Vehicles Archive > Archive through October 15, 2006

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Old     (yosquire)      Join Date: Jun 2005       10-10-2006, 7:52 PM Reply   
Late fall of last year (05), I had the idea to build my own pro-audio setup. A few hundred hours and a several hundred dollars, I ended up with a sound system that IMO sounded as good as anything I've heard on the water. (note, I've never heard Wetsounds gear and have only briefly heard NVS) While beached the system is clean, clear and LOUD. At 80' underway, it sounds ok..maybe a 7 on a scale of 1-10. The idea came from a friend who ran a basic 150 watt single 2" throat horn and 10" midbass, he leaned quite heavily on the HLCD and the mid-bass lacked, though in terms of SPL it is good for over a mile (~850hz+) on the river. Other than he and I there are no other Pro-audio setups in this community.

I ultimately abandoned the system in favor of Rubicon 450s. (well, I'm not sure favor is the right word) The reason I did this is because my system had a few short comings.

1) Weight, projected 120lbs finished. (i have to lower my tower every use)
2) box complexity (I'll elaborate on this further)

As you see some of my design decisions you may think, "why did he do that?" Well, suffice to say, I'd do things differently the second time around.

The Design:
Without a clear picture in my mind of the desired end result, I purchased a set of JBL 2425H's with Altec Lancing Constant Directivity horns. Then a pair of JBL 2012h.

The 2425's are a 1" Compression Driver from JBL. They are 8 ohm and 110db SPL (1w1m.) Freq response: 800hz-20khz. 100w continuous program power above 1.2khz. Weight 15 lbs ea. I chose the constant directivity horns in an attempt to achieve strong 'throw' back to the rider, leaving the boat at a comfortable volume level. (This was acomplished, comfortable SPL in the boat while decent throw.
(http://www.jblpro.com/pub/obsolete/2425hj.pdf)

The 2012h's are a 10" mid-bass driver also from JBL. They are 100db SPL (1w1m) 300W Continuous power capacity. 75hz - 7khz. Weight 20 lbs ea.
(http://www.jblpro.com/pages/pub/components/2012h.pdf)
(btw: I love these drivers, warm sound, CLEAN, and LOUD)

For you guys who are really up on this stuff, I'll bet you can see some problems emerging.

At this point I had to figure out how to power these things. Having never built cross-over networks before, I decided this project was big enough and so I decided to bi-amp the setup.

Let's start at the head unit:
I went with a PG active crossover. I chose this crossover because it has a resistor network that can be replaced to achive any cross-over point. This way I can change the 90hz cross-over point with a 1200hz point. Or 3500hz, or 2000hz. I bought a bunch with the intention of playing around with different cross over points. This cross over also has a Mono switch which I used.
(ftp://208.187.38.55/Phoenix_Gold/Manuals/Processors/Crossovers/AX204A.pdf)

Now I need a way to match the HLCDs at 110db to the 100db MidBass. Here I selected a Phoenix gold EQ215. This is a 2/3's Octave 'trunk mount' EQ that provides individual control over the right and left channels. Out of the x-over I merged the High's into one RCA channel, and ran that into the Right channel of the EQ. The lows were also merged and run to the Left channel. Then with individual control of left and right I was able to attenuate the HF to more closely match the mid-bass.
(ftp://208.187.38.55/Phoenix_Gold/Manuals/Processors/EQ_DEQ/EQ215.PDF)

A Phoenix Gold Titanium 600 was selected to drive the Mid-bass. 600w bridged at 4ohm. enough said there.
(ftp://208.187.38.55/Phoenix_Gold/Manuals/Amplifiers/Titanium/Ti600_2Ti400_2manual.pdf)

The HF was driven by a PG Xenon x200.2, 200watts bridged at 4ohm. Overkill, but it worked.
(ftp://208.187.38.55/Phoenix_Gold/Manuals/Amplifiers/XENON/xenonampmanual.pdf)

Enough with the electronics, now on to the tower box. The box ended up being where the short-comings of the design were at. The ultimate goal was a fiberglass box. I was already getting concerned about weight with 70 lbs of JBL drivers. I used 5/8" MDF for the frame. Tons of engineering thought went into how to safely secure 70lbs with 5/8" MDF over peoples head on a wakeboard tower that's always bouncing around.

At last:


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The Mock Up, taking measurements:
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Rings for the MID-BASS are mounted
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Here I'm bending acrylic so that the compression driver will fit in once the box is fiberglass wrapped. The
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Somewhere along the line I stopped taking pictures.. Here we can see the enclosures for the mid-bass drivers. The enclosures were a point of frustration as I knew I needed something substantial, but could not figure out what would do it and not tack on weight, right now the box loaded with drivers is closing in on 90lbs. So, at last, I found that 5 gallon buckets were the right size and close to the right volume. So I fiberglassed them in. I knew if everything worked right I would have to fiberglass reinforce them to get their performance up.
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An attempt to strengthen the back of the buck:
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Aluminum plates and thread-all for strength:
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Final Mock Up.
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BatWinged Ribs:
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This spring I ended up traveling quite extensively for work. About 4th of July I was attempting to wrap it in fleece and had two of the acrylic ribs break when I flipped it over while resin'ing it. so I had to pull the resined fleece back off. I wanted to use the box so I racked it up. At that point I had pretty much decided to abandon the project primarily because of weight. About that time I decided to order the Rubicon 450s since Wakeside indicates they weight 22lbs each. Well, Wakeside is wrong, they weight 44lbs each. So I saved 2lbs.

This is the only picture that was taken of it racked up:
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So, I'll leave it at that. feel free to ask questions as there was logic behind every decision. Some of the logic may have been flawed, but it was there.

Also, I'd like to thank Wakeworld as I spent countless hours digging through archived threads about pro-audio. And those who posted pictures of their projects which gave me a number of ideas. Those of you who answered my in-depth, or anal, questions: Grant & Clay, Mikeski, Adam Curtis, Rod McInis... and others..

(Message edited by yosquire on October 10, 2006)
Old     (nvsairwarrior)      Join Date: Aug 2003       10-10-2006, 10:58 PM Reply   
Craig,
I'm really sorry if this comes off wrong but....
If you'd told me your BOM, I'd have told to from the beginng that you had serious probs with your plan. Don't feel bad though, I once delt with a guy who claimed to be a Home Theater Expert....as it turned out he didn't know crap about what it takes to do Pro Audio or an HLCD system. Your'e not the first to try and come up a bit short.
I do admire you efforts...really. The only time I laughed was when you mentioned the weight of the Rubi 450's. At 44 lbs each I'm shocked!
I used to get bad press when the Entity 1010 was at 37 lbs. Now it's 33 and going lower.....with more performance!
Hope you like what you've ended up with. If not, give me a call.
Old     (mikeski)      Join Date: Aug 2003       10-10-2006, 11:27 PM Reply   
Craig,

Sorry your's didn't turn out to your liking. My homebrew HLCD "system" is still alive and kicking on my neighbor's boat. When I showed them my wetsounds he asked what I did with my previous speakers. When I pointed to the attic his eyes got big thinking he may have found a replacement for his single pair of 5.25" cans (yes, little buggers). After using my four 8" coax HLCD cans for the summer he decided he wanted to pay me for them and make them a permanent addition to his system. He is a good neighbor that was really cool when my dog bit his but he still insisted I take money for them, so I sold them to him for the $400 in parts that I had into the raw components. He is still happy with his purchase. As you have found it's easier to buy this stuff from a proven source. However it does not mean that somebody with a little initiative and patience can't build a successful system. I just don't understand why more guys are not doing pro-audio in their custom tower boxes???
Old     (nvsairwarrior)      Join Date: Aug 2003       10-11-2006, 12:19 AM Reply   
Mikeski,
good point with the Pro Audio in custom boxes. My opinion at this point though is that some are more focused on form then function. Not to say that the non Pro Audio systems don't function...I would never say that, but as you know the Pro Audio is best suited for the Rider. If you're not interested in better for the rider, then car audio is the easiest to do in a tower box.
The only other thing I could say is that the Pro Audio stuff requires a little more Engineering then the car audio and may not be main stream enough just yet for the average car audio shop.
I'm confident this will change....soon.
Old     (yosquire)      Join Date: Jun 2005       10-11-2006, 7:53 AM Reply   
Duane,
Not taken wrong at all. a year ago I didn't think the subject of pro-audio and stereo was too deep. By too deep, I felt I could learn quickly what I didn't know and that wouldn't be too hard. I've been quite humbled along the way. Now, I lean back as I realize how infinitely deep the subject really is. None-the-less, this project increased my depth of knowledge on the subject substantially. Now, I have the ut-most respect for you, the guys at wetsounds, and the guys at skylon. It's quite an art to pack so much capability into a clean light package. I ended up with lots of capability, though I missed clean and light.

And yes, my tower with 88lbs of speakers, 4 board racks, light bar, bimini....it's a pain to raise and lower. I use a weight lifting belt now since the weight gets to be 6 inches out in front of me after I get the tower up a foot.

Duane, what do you mean that "this will change....soon"? Are you implying that the amount of engineering required will reduce or that the engineering knowledge will become more mainstream available?

It may have been a waste of money and time, but the knowledge & abilities gained was priceless.
Old     (yosquire)      Join Date: Jun 2005       10-11-2006, 8:11 AM Reply   
Duane,
How would I go about hearing some NVS's in South-Eastern Washington?

It's odd as we have a massive amount of water ways here, a population closing in on 250k, and no pro-audio gear. I'm out there as much as anyone. Our Malibu dealer alone is closing in on 40 boats sold this year. Seems like a market that needs to hear some loud music...
Old     (sea_ray_dave)      Join Date: Dec 2004       10-11-2006, 2:22 PM Reply   
Craig,
I know the feeling of the DIY lessons. But at least we know we tried. I abandoned my tower speaker project just today-- it is a sad time for me. But, I am now looking at the options to be happy with the names you mentioned.

I ask WW members who have the nice "store" bought tower speakers to show them off and give some feedback to the undecided purchasers like me. I have to have a quick release because I have to pick up the tower each time I go out. I have a broken back (small violin playing - lol) so I am not supposed to lift much anyway. Show us your quick release ideas or what you bought that has this. I have 600 watts available for tower power (300x2 at 2 ohm) or 600x1 mono. My budget is 1000 but it can bend if it has too.
Old    enriched            10-11-2006, 2:48 PM Reply   
I love seeing people building their own stuff. Good job
Old     (gherk)      Join Date: Aug 2001       10-11-2006, 10:09 PM Reply   
You know if you fiberglass the box right, you can minimize the weight of box. I have done a few custom boxes for both myself and other people and during the trial and error process, I learned a nifty way to fiberglass a one-off box using the same method you did, but also was able to remove all the framing and wood used to build the shape of the box. If you lay the fiberglass up thick enough, you won't have to worry about it warping, cracking, or breaking.

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