wakesurfing on Vics??

ok.. so Im hoping some of the local boys can help chime in on this..

So we get out to vis this am.. and Ill say the water has seen better days but it was still totally rideable.. 3 boats.. my own, my friend steves and my friend jasons.. everyone is itching to ride when low and behold theres a black Wakesetter surfing!! so their rider downed right next to us as my wife is strapping in and I gave him a little "come on man.. surfing on vics??" and he wanted to tell me how it was the end of his day and that theres nothing rong with it.. we exchanged some none heated words and low and behild they put their surfer away and strapped in their wakeboards.. I gave them a thumbs up as they drove by and waved..

NOW.. Michelle got on my case on how I dont own the water and that I shouldnt be telling other people what to ride or what to do.. I agree to a certain point.. but surfing on VICS???

We talked about it on the way home and I told her Id post it on WW and let the locals chime in on this...

dude i totally would have done the same thing when people are surfing in good riding conditions it deserves to be adressed at least by saying "come on dude" if the guy says screw you! well let it go then but it's at least worth a try the same applies to power turners some people just need to be made aware!

I am biased on this.

I hate wakesurfing. Always have. Always will. I have let people do it off my boat despite my view of it so I am guilty.

Mark my words... you will never see me pulling a wakesurfer on Vics.

michelle's right.

another good use for my new wet sounds 420!!!!

what the surfers dont understand is that old river is 3 x as deep and they will get a better surf wake over there. it just makes sense. vics = wake old river = surf just not on the south end it way to shallow... everyone gets a playground thats the beauty of the delta.

the water is fair game for everyone, even jet skis or tubers. as much as i hate seeing someone rip threw doing circles on a jet ski or a tube. or even worse someone surfing through morning glass. they have just as much of a right to be at any lake or river as the rest of us

Jesus, wakeboards are such elitest asshats.

If a boat pulled up and asked me not to partake in some other water sport on a public lake - I'd kindly ask you to step ashore or mind your own ••••••• business..

I'm not a local so my point is null. Your wife was right.

Isaac, I feel your pain. It's not the wakesurfer I hate, it's the rollers the boat produces down Vics that I hate. I get so bummed. My V215 will just porpoise the whole time. It really rattles my timing. It definately will anger me. I agree with your wife though. But at the same time I want to say "really dude?" Because we all know when the water is butter at Vics, there is no better place to ride then there. The bottom line is, I wish the wakesurf rollers would just go away, then we all would get along. I hope in the future those wakesurfers will go to a blown out spot, but I don't expect them too.

I think the whole world knows how I feel about this. I am glad that you only had to ask and they strapped wakeboards on.

We had the same experience on Thursday on Vics, 4 boats out there 1 skier, 1 wakeboarder and 2 surfers!! Just enough to ruin both sides of vics, I think the dudes you ran into obviously were in the know, props to them that was cool, the people we saw Thursday were some oldies behind a supreme that probably had no idea they were effin the slough, just tryin something "fun" that people over 60 can do.....more power to them but if you are an able bodied wakeboarder it should make your skin crawl to surf on glass. Now if you are alone or its blown out surf til the cows come home, otherwise stay on Old river with the toobers!! **For those from elsewhere in the world vics is about 1/2 mile from Old River, its not like anyone would have to travel some distance to get there**

Last week we were out on vics on a Thursday. Two boats....us, and a Wakesetter surfing. Both sides of Vics was rolled out from the surfer. An area that can handle 10 wakeboard boats, easy, was wrecked by one surf boat. It really sucks

Quickest way to handle a wakesurfer??? Just take their apperoach. Pull up about 20' in front of them and drive 10 MPH down the whole slough. When their rider falls, then whip a quick power turn in front of them and proceed with your 10 mph plow. See how they like it.

The trouble with surfing is that it trashes water. I have no other fault with the sport. I really appreciate the people that understand watersports and try to keep their surfing to waterways that aren't known for their flat water. Old river is a great spot to surf. Less traffic with riders in the water and wide open.

But at the end of the day we all share the same water and nobody has any more right to it than anyone else. That said, it's nice being around people that understand that we can all coexist peacefully and enjoy our own piece of the water. (i.e. Don't powerturn, don't pull up your wakeboarder in front of a slalom skiier, don't wakesurf in a narrow slough with flat water).

Just to be clear I didnt tell the dude he couldnt surf or anything.. I just said "Come on man, surfing on Vics??" I dont think theres anything wrong with that..

Its kind of an unwritten rule in my book..

I sold one of the "friends don't let friends WAKESURF" stickers to a wakesurfer the other day ironicly...which led him to asking why? so i explained to him that there is a time and a place for the monster rollers that a slow wakesurf boat puts out...and he agree'd and understood and said you wont catch him wakesurfing on a glassy lake...1 down countless more to go....

I used to be like a big time wakesurfer i quit wakeboarding for like 5 years, and ill be honestet rough water does effect the wake but really in vics come on now thats jus not right. Use ur head ya u dont own the water but common courtesy to other people on the water.when i used to surf id stay away from people boarding. i think your in the right Isaac

to me its like driving 55 in the left lane... no courtesy to other people and plenty of other lanes to choose from that you can drive 55 and not bother anyone.. My wife said its a horrible analogy, but I think it makes perfect sense.. everyone gets pissed at people who drive 55 in the "fast" lane.. nothing wrong with driving 55, just do it somewhere else hahhaha

these threads are getting old and annoying..get over it...surfers arent going anywhere...in fact i see more and more boats out with surfboards in the racks everyday...it keeps people on the water and thats all good...i'm not sayin that i dont get a little butt hurt when i see a boat slumped to the side right by the trees on a tuesday nite but what can you do besides either share the rolled out water or go somewhere else...

Im right there with you JR.

We surfed Friday and Saturday, first time in a while, and as many others would not be caught dead surfing on Vics or Twins. we head up north past Bull Frog's, great water, no one out to bother us.

Never understood why people would want to surf Vics, it's shallow and narrow and even at idle a loaded boat surfing takes some space to turn around. Old river is def the place to ride, north or south of disco.

My take on it: (and I am the wifey he refers to)

First off, we wakesurf when the water is crappy so it's not as though we don't ride ourselves. Although, we would never ride where the water is still nice or in Vic's apparently LOL

And as much as it may suck to have tubers blow through where we are riding, or surfers riding in Vic's..I think it's fine to grumble about it to yourself or your friends, but not right to tell others what they should or should not be doing. It's a PUBLIC lake where we all pay our launch fee and our free to do as we please. If it interferes with the safety of our riders or those in our boat, especially if my kids are there..then that's a whole different story.

But my bottom line is it's not right to say anything to others..unwritten rule or not.

thats the surf spot fo sho johnny. you can surf your heart out all the way to tiki and never bother a single ski or wake boat and not be bothered yourself. water is deeper and you still have a decent high levy to keep that 5 mile run clean.

^^ stop being so practical and politically correct.. its no fun!!! Seriously though its not like I said he cant do it or called him a kook or anything.. In fact they even strapped on their boards right after because they prolly thought "you know what, hes right.."

whats up Johnny.. nice seeing ya friday night

I see that many people agree about where wakesurfing should be and under what conditions..and that's fine but would you actually say something to someone who is doing it? That's the part I don't agree about.

I am out to have a good time, and not going to let a wakesurfer ruin my day or potentially get into an argument with someone else over it...stupid stuff happens esp. when people are drinking. Not worth it IMO

That's me..practical and politically correct! And if the guys weren't cool about it, and wanted to start crap, there was you and 2 females and 2 kids in the boat. Not worth it!

Plenty of spots to take off and ride at if you don't like what's going on in a particular slough.

I gotta go with the wifey on this one. While I wouldn't like a surfer wrecking the water either, if it's a public lake, I can't really tell him not to surf.

We ride on a public lake. Sometimes there are fisherman in the "lane" we ride, where the best water is. We get dirty looks sometimes from the fisherman, a few times more than dirty looks. They are thinking (or saying), "Come on, wakeboarding here? Why not go someplace else. You're messing up our water."

But it's a public lake so we keep riding...

Water skiers vs fisherman
Fisherman vs jetskiers
Jetskiers vs wakeboarders
Wakeboarders vs wakesurfers
Everyone vs tubers

the evolution continues.

We should all just start riding air chairs.

No real point here. It's interesting to watch over 30 years on the water. Public waterways = all access. Common courtesy = would be great. eventually common courtesy develops, it takes time, knowledge and peer pressure. Good thread.

^^ Everyone against tubers! hahaha

that made me laugh too!!

Thank you Isaac... all you needed to say and they got thie hint.. HOPEFULLY.

Can we get a sticker that says " friends don't let friends surf glass" ? Then you could simply hand out a sticker and a beer and people will get the point. Maybe add some lake rulls/ recomendations to the back? like 5AM to 7AM slalom and fish 7am to 10am wake board 10AM on do as you would do unto others..lol

Ha, ha, ha... I like your schedule.

As long as you are polite, it is never wrong to ask someone to stop any kind of behavior that is wrecking the water. Generally the people tearing up the good conditions are not really even aware of the impact and that the other people trying to use the water are torqued at them.

They don't have to do as you request. They might give you the finger and keep on doing it. But they might also be understanding and stop. You know what they'll do if you say nothing. I've had great luck asking tubers to relocate off our local line - a little tact and politeness goes a long way.

Saying something doesn't mean you think you own the water. It means you are communicating and hoping for a better outcome. That is always good.

You like that Evan. Theres a guy on my lake that likes to surf at 6:30 am three days a week. my lake is dominated with the older ski crowed that is very respectful. This guy that surfs is just begging to have his boat sunk. I know of three people who have sustained minor(for the time being) injuries due to hitting his rollers while skiing the course at 7am. honestly there is no reason to surf that early. Personally I am a surfer and when we get out early we sit and enjoy all the good riders moves some times we will ask if we can run along with them for some good photos and I have to say every one has been totally cool with it. It is just a matter of respect. yes the lake is public and every one can do what they want but honestly I feel like every one can wait there turn. when your on the lake all day does an hour really matter that much? I think not.

I agree with Dan

Man, the other day I was out wakeboarding and a dad was towing his kids on a tube. I couldn't believe he had the nerve to take his kids out on a public waterway while I was wakeboarding!

Also the week before that there were 3 jet skiers riding in the same cove. Don't they know that when wakeboarders wakeboard everyone should steer clear! I could not believe it!

Matt - we were running my favorite (somewhat cresent shaped) line earlier this spring, and a dad came over and started pulling his kids in fig-8s at the far half of the line. We already had a rider in tow. When we started getting close to him, he bee-lined to the other end of the line and did the same thing until we started closing in again. And at that point he zipped back to where he stared and continued to turn S's and fig 8's. Everytime we started getting near he went and tore up the other end of the line just in time for us to get there.

We finally putted over and explained the impact how he was driving on what we were doing. He had no clue, and thought he was doing right by zooming out of our way to the other end of the line when we approached. As soon as he understood, he was happy to take it a few hundred yards away to more open water.

He was happy and we were happy. Win/win.

It wasn't rude, it was constructive.

"As long as you are polite, it is never wrong to ask someone to stop any kind of behavior that is wrecking the water. Generally the people tearing up the good conditions are not really even aware of the impact and that the other people trying to use the water are torqued at them."

I respectfully, but STRENUOUSLY disagree. It is mindboggling for me to appreciate the arrogance necessary to assume that people are simply unaware of their impact on your wakeboarding conditions. If you educate them, surely they'd be more than happy to move, right? It is ALWAYS wrong and NEVER right to ask someone to stop (or relocate) what they're doing simply so you can do what you want to do! Polite or not, I will not take kindly to your implication that your recreation is more "worthy" of the butter than mine. I'm well aware of what I'm doing, thanks. I also know that I'm making people like you mad. My kids like to tube. They do not like to tube in rough water. As long as I'm obeying the rules, I'm just gonna have to ask that you deal with it. If you deal with it by asking me to go somewhere else, I will let you know exactly how I feel about your suggestion. What would your reaction be if I asked you to wakeboard somewhere else because you're messin' up my tubin' butter? Sounds pretty silly, doesn't it? I wouldn't dream of doing so, however, because I respect your right to use the water as you see fit, even if what you're doing detracts from what I'm doing. I try to minimize my impact on the people around me and I appreciate the same consideration.

"honestly there is no reason to surf that early."

No reason is necessary other than that's when they want to do it. Unless they're surfing in an area and/or time set aside for skiers, you have no legitimate complaint.

"yes the lake is public and every one can do what they want"

Too bad you didn't stop there.

"Elitist hypocrites" sounds appropriate here. Why the "hypocrite" part, you ask? Because most of you refuse to acknowledge, or even consider, that wakeboarding "wrecks the water" too.

I take umbrage to that comment, Swass. I have sat idle many times waiting for a slalom skier or barefooter to finish their pass before I dropped a rider in. We even waited a few minutes the other night for a hot-boat driver to make a pass before we started the next set. No big deal.

There is a polite way to share the water. You have to be considerate of others. It is not elitist or hypocrytical to ask others to also be considerate.

And I do as well. I don't snake someone's line, or otherwise get in anyone's way. I will, however, use that same line to tow a tube if that's what we happen to be doing.

Where we part ways is the idea that it's OK to come over and politely ask me to move.

True that Swass.

I'm off the wakeboard for the rest of summer. I can however slip a surf session in here and there. I'm hoping I dont get stones thrown at me if I happen to cruise through someones butter lol

Swass, the difference is, is that you can tube in rollers and rough water and still have the same amount of fun as you can when in glass.. however with wakeboarding you cannot have the same experience in riding.. and as a wakeboarder you should have the courtesy to other wakeboarders that are trying to take advantage of the conditions that are not always easy to come by

Last weekend I had friends in the boat that dont get out more than once or twice a year and as we are going through a nice glassy slough they said lets surf!! I said ya sounds good just not here because it will mess up the water for the people wakeboarding.. we can go elsewhere and do it.. and no one had a problem with that....

Sure everyone has the right to do and be wherever they want, but having courtesy to others in the same sport that you partake in goes a long way

Isaac, that's where the arrogance and elitism come into play: You have taken it upon yourself to decide for us what's fun. As I said before, my kids do not like to ride in the tube on chop.

While I agree that wakeboarding in chop sucks to the point that I'd rather not ride, I do not agree that I should tell my kids that we have to go somewhere else because someone is wakeboarding on the glassiest part of the lake. I will be polite and courteous to those who are there already, but I do feel entitled to pull a tube if that's what we choose to do. How polite you are in asking me to move is immaterial. The question itself is rude and disrespectful. I make every attempt to minimize my impact on your recreation. How are you minimizing your impact on mine by asking me to move from a spot that we were previously sharing so you can have the spot for yourself (or those who are doing what you're doing)?

Isaac, I agree, a little courtesy, manners and common sense go along way in very aspect of life. I think alot of people dont have any of the above anymore. I always try to stop or slow down so we dont ruin someones good water.

i'm curious. if a skier politely asked you to ride elsewhere, how would you take it?

I do it all the time. Infact sat morning i was with JR and I just said to the guy "really? come on man dont be surfing in here" great thing is he didnt. He went elsewere.

if that makes me an elitest or a jerk or d**k thats cool i'll glady wear that hat.

Josh i didnt hear many kind words coming out of your mouth when it was your while you were putting your board on the other day and a surfer went right by us.

no but i've never seen or heard a skier get mad Joe when i wait let them go by and then pull up my ride when thier half down the slough. I dont go the other way down a slough against them so infact me wakeboarding has no impact on thier fun.

If you want to pull a tube straight or even just go the same way as everyone else down the slough not going back and forth then i dont care either.

Surfing is just a waste of gas. and messes up the water for everyone.

"Surfing is just a waste of gas. and messes up the water for everyone."

You are either completely ignoring my premise, or you just don't get it. Who are you to decide what messes up the water for everyone? It's not messed up for them. Oh yeah, you're wakeboarding, so you're more important than them.

"If you want to pull a tube straight or even just go the same way as everyone else down the slough not going back and forth then i dont care either."

My position is not location-specific, but my kids like to go outside the wake. I'm sorry, but that means I have to turn.

im not here to agree with you man sorry. I hear what your saying but dont care!

If you know the delta then you know some sloughs are for one way traffic, Vics is one of them. Were not taking about some effing lake

could one of you guys get me directions to this area you call "vics"? it sounds like a kick ass place for me to surf. but would you neanderthal wakeboarders please go somewhere else so i could get my surf shred on, in some good ol' delta butter. no better use for it in my opinion.

I didn't expect you to agree with me. Proving my point while disagreeing with me is a little ironic, though.

yes!!!!!!! lmfao!!!!!! finally the D case chimed in, been waiting for it for 3 days, hahahaha!!!!! D. ill pm you how to get there. you are an exception to the rule, because you SHRED!!!!!!!!!

thanks for the props bryan. about time you wakeboarding window lickers recognize the talent of wake surfing. anyone can follow a boat holding a rope.

i've been thinking ab this Nick since this is like the 9283928423 thread on surfing and surfing the delta...so here's where i'm at...

does it suck when someones surfin a spot we ride everyday of the week...yea...do i get a little upset inside and want to slaysh a wall of water into their boat...yea...do i feel like yellin thru the megaphone to GET THE EFF OUTTA HERE..yea...

but i refrain from doing all of the above....MOST OF THE TIME...hahaha

"do i feel like yellin thru the megaphone to GET THE EFF OUTTA HERE..yea... "

how about when your home boy almost gets ran over by a guy who's clue less driving on the left side then makes a blind turn to head for vics turning straight at your friend who just fell and you have to power back to put your boat between his and your friend because he wanted to turn inside of your friend and the corner of the levy all while going 25+ mph when there was 200+ feet of channel to the outside?

is it ok then?

(Message edited by westsiderippa on September 01, 2009)

hey man, he fell in my path. i aint movin' for some meat-head wakeboarder whos messin' up my butter. stay away from vics and that wont happen. vics is for surfing, get used to it.

Definately ok to use the mic in that instance. But like I said I think I'm gonna have to beat someones ass cuz of some ••••••••• u said on that thing. Hahahhahahah

(Message edited by Romes on September 01, 2009)

people in this discussion seem to be under the misimpression that flat water doesn't matter to surfers. in fact, the tricks being done now require extremely precise edge control. flat water is necessary and glass is great for surfing if you are trying to execute tricks.

My goodness, wakeboarders ruin the water for fisherman and skiers... deal with it.

Chidofu.....tricks r for kids.

"My goodness, wakeboarders ruin the water for fisherman and skiers... deal with it."

How you figure? Unless your powerturning, a wakeboarders wake goes out to the side and stops.. thats why multiple boats can all be on the same slough and still get great water..fishermen can be sitting inside 5 mph all day long without wake boats "ruining their water"

hahahahahaha. whaaaaaaaaah.

public (as in public lake)
–adjective
1. of, pertaining to, or affecting a population or a community as a whole: public funds; a public nuisance.
2. done, made, acting, etc., for the community as a whole: public prosecution.
3. open to all persons: a public meeting.
4. of, pertaining to, or being in the service of a community or nation, esp. as a government officer: a public official.
5. maintained at the public expense and under public control: a public library; a public road.
6. generally known: The fact became public.
7. familiar to the public; prominent: public figures.
8. open to the view of all; existing or conducted in public: a public dispute.
9. pertaining or devoted to the welfare or well-being of the community: public spirit.
10. of or pertaining to all humankind; universal.

Dude were not talking about an effing lake! The delta aint no damn lake.

The best trick I've ever seen on a surfboard was someone throwin the rope in and that's only been a few times. Precise edge control hahaha. Man the ocean in a big wave is butter huh. That's why they rip so hard.

What a joke. This is wakeworld not fishing world or fakesurfing world

hey, if theres other places for us wakesurfers to go, there sure as h@ll is somewhere for you wakeboarders to go. feel free to go there.

As I said, my position is not location-specific. I'm well aware that the Delta "aint no damn lake." The Delta is, however, a public waterway. It's not your private playground.

I understand that you have developed a strong sense of entitlement, by virtue of your wakeboarding godliness. That's kinda one of my main points.

I LOVE WAKESURFING. I think wakesurfing should be done where ever you want to ride. I think you should be respectful of other people riding around you but I also think the other boats around you should be respectful of you as well. And if someone would give me a hard time about where I was wakesurfing I would laugh. And then see if they would like a pull. You guys need to get over this petty S*%t. i have never been to vics but i know there is tons of water to ride on in the delta. Ride and have fun Dont worry about everyone else.
Drew Danielo

Oh sorry Nick, public (as in public water way). Join a private lake if you want rules. The places I go to are packed full of tubers, we deal with it! They are out enjoying the water just like we are and that's really what "boating" is all about - having fun!

Ok so Vic's is not a place most people ON THE FORUM when call the best place to surf, BUT are all you wakeboard only guys that hard headed that you can not figure out how to share the slough with someone who chooses to surf in it.

The rollers run the whole length of vics.
This means regardless you (wakeboarder) only need to pass a roller 1 time every direction. Surfers move at 12MPH boarders move at 22+MPH so it's not like a boarder is stuck in a surfer's wave for more then a few seconds. as you pass. Same as a skier coming down the slough and passing a boarder, it's only a matter of seconds. You don't see skiers waving us out of the slough, they should have more claim then anyone else since most have been sking that slough longer then wakeboards have been in production.


IS IT REALLY THAT BIG A DEAL.

Note- I surf, I board, and my crew surf's and board's and we spend no time crying about the surfers on vics or anyone else. We choose to surf in other areas, but that's out choice, not an rule.

It's everyones water, fishermen, boarders, surfers, skaters, tubers, kneeboarders, airchair'rs, party'rs even the friken planes and ultralites have rights to do as they please. Why can't we just share it and enjoy it.

There are a few posters on this thread that must just get off the water bitter at world at the end of the day.

Maybe we should look at this in a different light. Maybe wake boarders should always travel the opposite direction as surfers. That way every time you pass a surfer you get a monster dbl up to hit.. See surfers are doing a favor for the wake boarders.

in the 80s and 90s vics was all waterskiing .... when the slow wakeboarders with big waves showed up it ruined the slough for the waterskiers .... watch out for history as the wakeboarders may be the next to leave vics as the wakesurfers take over!!

I just think theres a time and place for everything.. Like Johnny, I enjoy surfing as well.. I just choose to do it in a place where I know a wakeboarder can get his game on..

Johnny, that's not entirely true. If a surfer never fell, then the rollers may not trail, but they fall multiple times. Each time makes another roller. Not only that, but have you ever trailed behind a surf boat? They makes rollers behind them for hundreds of yards. The rollers don't dissipate because they are moving the direction of the slough, rather than a wakeboat or waterski wake that bounces off the levy walls and breaks up.

It is what it is, but surfing essentially makes any straight slough worthless for wakeboarding. Once the wakeboat starts bouncing they don't stop and consequently you'll never get a clean wake again.

Just wanted to say the "surf" rollers going east on the south slough of vic's (toward union point) can last for 3/4 of the slough (about 1.5 miles). My biggest complaint with surfing the vic's is safety, its a narrow slough. Since your forcing several boats into a passing situations here. I know skiers pass boarders too, we try very hard to wait for skiers to go by before pulling-up a rider. We wait 10-15+ minutes sometimes for the faster traffic to clear out.

The nice thing about the vic's is between 11-4 on weekends the boarders can play follow the leader and everyone (upwards of 20 boats) get clean water, not many place can claim that. Hence the strong feels here, plus NO ONE likes likes to be told what they can or can't do.

Guess I'm old school, been skiing/boarding the vic's for 23 years and surfing the coast 15 years.

Oh well...Hope I provided some useful insight..Peace

Some people get it some people don't. When I see people do nice thing's that they dont have to like. Hold the door open for ya or Let ya merge in on the freeway with out having to push your way in. These are all small examples of things people don't have to do but do because they IMO have manner's. When you see people doing the right thing you just have to say "Thank God" there are still people on this earth that have a clue. Showing respect and having manners never go's out of style. Prop's to the many of you that get it.
Taking the extra few min's or step's to make it that much nicer for the next person, and doing somthing nice that you don't have to do IMO is just awesome keep on keeping on Respect!

i agree with swass…

you better be one hell of a wakeboarder to be complaining about who or what’s ruining the water. last time i checked the delta was huge with channels everywhere. if the water is glass in one area, i’m sure it will be glass in another. this thread is ridiculous

Evan I stand corrected, I have never surfed Vics or any other straight slough so was kinda speaking with out knowledge. We surf the sloughs with turns and it's not long before the rollers hit a leeve and they are gone. We ride Twins and Vics when boarding and I honestly can't say that the rollers have that been bad. I know we run accross them, but have never been bothered by them for 1 mile, that I can remember.

Regardless My only point is, some of us know where to surf and where not to, the others can not be hated just because they don't have the experience and understanding we do. You here ads about boating and drinking on the radio all the time, but never hear anything about where to ride what.

Maybe a map surf spots, board spots, fishing spots and skiing spots would be a good way to educate people, but most of us do not have nor want to spend the funds to do this.

(Message edited by johnny_jr on September 02, 2009)

you guys are getting so intense in this thread when all your all saying is surfing is for homos...which it is. end of thread.

1- Glad I dont ride near swass.
2- Completely agree with Grant.
3- Love the anology of going 55 in the fast lane on the freeway...nothing wrong with driving 55, just do it somewhere else.

it's all about respect.

Way to contribute Andy, all you did was classify yourself as a d-bag. Thanks for the clarification.

The thread is not that intense, you want intense read the Krypt Speaker thread, now that one is intense.