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Go Back   WakeWorld > >> Boats, Accessories & Tow Vehicles Archive > Archive through July 21, 2006

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Old     (flux)      Join Date: Jun 2003       07-06-2006, 4:02 PM Reply   
I want to add a nice double bus under my dash for adding future amps and custom ballast. I have taken a good look at all the electrical, especially the battery cables. My boat is an 02 SANTE. It seems that the only power available under the dash is off the black box, which has the pos and neg terminals and several light gauge wires on them. I assume that it takes it's power from the 10 ga wire on the dual battery switches. I don't want to tax this system and prefer to set up my own buses with large gauges from the battery switch and a ground from the engine. I figure wire gauges for 100 amps will be fine (2 gauge) and I doubt it will see that much but better to oversize and do it once.

I have located what I think are two grounding studs on either side of the engine and one on the aluminum engine mounts. The one I am considering is located beneath FCC, it has the rear battery ground on it as well as several other smaller gauges. The front battery ground runs through the bow and into the hole below the dash and on to the aluminum frame that holds the engine where it is bolted down.

I am also considering just splicing the front battery ground and attaching it to a new bus bar , this would be easiest but I don't know if it might over-amp that wire, it's 2/0 but runs the length of the boat. The shortest route other than the splice would be to attach the new ground on the front battery, but that again taxes the front battery ground.

So I think I should either ground to the engine ground under the FCC or ground to the stud on the aluminum motor frame. Any thoughts on this?? I know this is lengthy but I don't want to cause any damage to the existing system and this is the safest way I can think to do it. Is the aluminum frame as good a ground as the engine ground??

I will take my pos power right from the battery switch studs.
Old     (cyclonecj)      Join Date: Jul 2001       07-06-2006, 7:50 PM Reply   
You are way better off running a new power and ground wire straight from the battery, add a standalone dual bus bar under the dash somewhere. Fuse it near the battery. It's best to keep the power completely separate for all your add on stuff.
Old     (flux)      Join Date: Jun 2003       07-07-2006, 10:44 AM Reply   
Thanks Psyclone. Essentially that is what I am trying to do, but I confused it with too much wording like I always do. A new busbar taking power from the battery switches where the alternator and battery connects comes in and it's own ground.

I am just fuzzy on where to run a new ground too, it's either gonna be the engine ground or the aluminum supports near the engine, but they are tied into the engine as well.

I ordered up a Bluesea Dualbus Plus. Nice little unit with tow lugs on each bus and a bunch of screw connections and a snap on cover.
Old     (cyclonecj)      Join Date: Jul 2001       07-08-2006, 6:02 AM Reply   
You will have noise (ground loops) if you do not run the ground directly to the battery negative terminal. Second best place would be the block, engine mount would cause noise problems guaranteed.
Old     (tanner)      Join Date: Oct 2005       07-08-2006, 10:30 AM Reply   
Flux,

The best ground in a boat is grounding on the battery itself period!
Old     (flux)      Join Date: Jun 2003       07-08-2006, 10:44 AM Reply   
Thanks guys, but here is another stupid question.

Both batteries are grounded to the engine or engine mounting frame. So isn't it the same thing really?? The engine mounting frame is also grounded to the engine itself with a direct connection. The frame is aluminum as far as I can tell with steel mounts attached to it.

I have never dealt with Ground loops and all of that so I really do not know.

My trouble is that I have two batteries and a battery switch. I would rather have the (pos) power to the new bus supplied off of the battery switch so it is either drawing from either switched battery or the alternator when running and is turned off when the switches are off.

This is where I am having a bit of trouble figuring out what ground to use. I could run the ground up to the front battery, but it would then be on a ground heading back to the engine frame. Rear battery ground goes to the engine.

Sorry I am so damn confused.
Old     (flux)      Join Date: Jun 2003       07-08-2006, 11:41 AM Reply   
Here's a quickie schematic of what I am facing. I guess I am a little stressed about doing this correctly. The boat is either under one battery or the other, best not to combine. I will run my pos power from the main bus where the alternator comes in. The Nautique black box get's it's 30 amps of power there too for all the house loads it controls (lights, ballast, 100 watt amp, HU, etc.)

I am fairly certain the black box is grounded to the engine where the rear battery is grounded.

I am just looking for the best and safest place to ground an added busbar.


Wiring Diagram
Old     (882001)      Join Date: Nov 2003       07-08-2006, 4:02 PM Reply   
Flux,

The best ground in a boat is grounding on the battery itself period!



agreed
Old     (flux)      Join Date: Jun 2003       07-08-2006, 5:31 PM Reply   
Thanks very much all.

So the best ground it the battery ground, there it is and sorry for second guessing it.

What I was trying to show is that the power bus I want to add could be hooked into either battery depending on the switch I throw. Would it then be ok to be pulling the ground from a different battery that is not in use??

Thanks again people, sorry if I am getting too detailed.
Old     (rodmcinnis)      Join Date: Sep 2002       07-10-2006, 11:48 AM Reply   
Flux:

For a bus bar I recommend this one:
http://www.bluesea.com/product.asp?Product_Id=30199&d_Id=7465&l1=7465&l2=

It has nice heavy studs to connect the large wires plus smaller screws for attaching smaller wires. The plastic cover protects the entire mess from accidental shorts.


For the ground the easiest thing to do would be to add a wire from the engine block to your new distribution block. Think battery cable size. DO NOT attempt to pick up either grond or +12 using the existing wiring to the dash, that will be a disaster. Run the biggest wire you can manage, it will pay off later.

If you have a marine style battery with the stud & wing nut instead of automotive style battery clamps then you could just add anothe wire to the battery. Be advised that this is against the accepted practice of the boat manufacturers and it could become an insurance issue. You are supposed to have only one connection to the battery terminals.

For the power side (+12), the proper way would be to install a power post, such as:
http://www.bluesea.com/product.asp?Product_Id=30129&d_Id=7465&l1=7465&l2=

Install it as close as possible to the battery. Create a short battery cable from the battery to the post, then attach your main starter cable and a new wire to the post.

Install a fuse or circuit breaker (such as:
http://www.bluesea.com/product.asp?Product_Id=27551&d_Id=7407&l1=7407&l2= ) as close as possible to the power post. Connect the wire to your new power distribution block to the other side of the circuit breaker.

The circuit breaker will protect your new wiring and will also allow you to turn off everything connected to it.

If you want to utilize a battery switch then you would install the power post and circuit breaker near the battery switch. I do not recommend trying to put two large wires on the terminal of the battery switch.
Old     (flux)      Join Date: Jun 2003       07-10-2006, 12:18 PM Reply   
Thankyou Rod. I was hoping you would throw some knowledge my way. I owe everyone for chiming in, it is greatly appreciated.

I have the bluesea dualbus plus on the way, and yes, it's the nicest one I have seen. It will make future installs very easy.

I am using 2 gauge ancor marine battery cable for all the main connections. I did a calc and this nicely oversized for 100 amps, probably do 150, I will probably only ever need 60.

I will definately NOT use any existing power leads under the dash. they are undersized as it is, everything is done from a central breaker/relay box and it is fused for 30 amps. It's power is drawn from the main 60 amp breaker on the engine and is grounded to the engine as well. I took out my ballast tanks and spent some time tracing all the grounds and power leads. It seems that everything is grounded to the engine in some way, batteries, main dash power, everything.

Both the batteries (+) power terminate on two switches that are linked to each other. I found the manufacturer and they are rated at 275 amps continuous. the alternator/starter is linked in there as well. this will be where I tap my main (+) for the bus. This is preferable since I will only run on one battery, either battery that is and can switch everything off from there. Here's my battery switches that came stock, they are linked together with a busbar and that's where the alternator/starter wire comes in and the dash power draws from.

http://www.bepmarine.com/showproduct.cfm?productid=1

I am missing the breaker for the main bus and will have to pick one up.

If I have any ground loop problems with the current amp (200 watt), I will isolate it on one of the batteries, that is no problem.

Thanks again, I am grateful for the input.

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