concussions?

Have any of you guys ever gotten a concussion from wakeboarding because i just got one the other day. I want to keep riding hard and not have to think about getting another one so is there anything that helps besides don't fall?

helmets

doesn't that only help if u hit your head on something? like i don't even know how i got it, crazy whiplash?

Helmets have been discussed a lot and there are a lot of opinions but no solid data on the issue but here are some of the cliff notes.

The padding in the helmet will allow your brain inside your head to decelerate more slowly on an impact thus reducing the chance of a concussion. The helmet will also increase the surface area of your mellon potentially increasing the strain on your neck with a water impact. Personally, I do not wear a helmet but given the recent tragedies and the ever present concussion posts on here and the lack of neck injuries posted, I will probably be wearing one anytime I am trying something big and new and may start wearing them full time.

hitting your head on the water is hitting your head on something. Water can become as hard as concrete in many instances. Here is one of the many threads on this topic
http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/1/468230.html

Don't think about it...hesitant riders are the ones that get hurt. If you truly have all your fundamentals down; edging, toeside jumps, switch riding then I say GO BIG or GO HOME

Luker....So Dallas, Parks, Murray, and now Adkinson were hesitant riders before they got injured? Hesitation is not a good thing, but even the biggest rippers get injured.

The statement was that hesitant riders are more likely to get hurt...Parks ripped his knee to schreds and he's probably the one of the most insane, un-hesitant riders in the world.

Everyone on the water is susceptible to injury, whether you can barely get up or your are sticking 10's. I'm simply stating that if you are hesitant and nervous on the water you improve your chances of getting hurt.

ya, i've got a concussion riding before. Just take some tylenol and you can be riding the next day =]

If you truly got a concussion, you won't be riding the next day. I have had a light headed, feeling like you are going to pass-out and headaches for a couple weeks after some crashes. Some people get nausea, I have never had that feeling. When you take this type of crash, you need to take some time off and get right, other wise you are much more susceptible to further head injuries. I came back early a few summers ago from a concussion and I swear I haven't been the same since that time. I can barely take any kind of head ding without some ill effects that last for days.

If you do ride the next day and get another blow to the head, you may not ever ride again, or do anything for that matter.

I was learning to do Raleys with Dean Lavelle in Florida. I finally got up...way up. And was thinking "Finally I am doing it!!" The next thing I know I am in the boat. Trying to figure out where I am. "We're in Florida?" I asked this question about 900 times. "What trick did I fall on"? asked that one about 1500 times. I have had several concussions, including one from being run over by my own truck while skateboarding...that story is for a different website. I hate concussions, but I did do a dumb thing and went riding the next day...was a die hard back in '95. Thought I would share.

Damien

How do u really know when u get a concussion? do u just forget it or something?

pottsy- i got one earlier this year. sometime you lose consciousness. I have about a 2 hour time period which i cant remember anything. i was trying OHH's and dont remember which direction we were traveling. like damien i asked the same question over and over too. i think alot of people feel they get concussions because they see some stars but thats not a concussion.

i guess i shouldve not been so hesitant, or gone a little bigger(insert sarcasm)

Regarding the helmet argument:

Last time I checked just about every medical specialist I have talked to says the majority of concussions come from the top and bottom rows of teeth coming together sending that shock wave to your brain or something. When I was playing hockey they said this was related to 90% of hockey related concussions. They said that the majority of concussions can be avoided by wearing a proper mouth guard, enter the Shockdoctor mouth guards etc. I would also think that you would hit your head A LOT harder on ice than water.

Does anyone that is arguing the whole pro-helmet thing have some sort of evidence showing that the actual impact is what creates the majority of wakeboarding concussions, and not the teeth coming together?

Just curious?

You can tell when you get a concussion if you feel nausiated, and your pupils are dialated. For me i was throwing up and my pupils were huge, extreme head aches and couldn't remember where i was.

I can tell you that since I have been wearing a helmet, witch has been for over a year now, I have not had one concussion.
That answered the question for me.(does a helmet help with concussion's)

BMartin, you mentioned that a helmet might put more strain on your neck, but you left out the fact that when you increase the size of the object entering the water (i.e. your head by putting a helmet on it), you increase the amount of deceleration that occurs when coming in contact with the water. This increased deceleration will increase your chance of getting a concussion.

So there are two factors working against each other in the helmet scenario. You have the helmet padding, which is helping to slow your head down at a slower rate than it would if it hit the water directly. This is helping you.

Then you have the increased surface area, which is slowing your head down at an higher rate than if your head hit the water directly. This is hurting you.

I haven't seen any studies that compare these conflicting forces to determine if one is greater than the other or if they simply cancel each other out. It would be interesting to see something like that.

Things we do know are that helmets will help when you hit an object that has the potential to "dent" your skull, such as a slider or your wakeboard. We also know that a helmet can increase the strain on your neck in certain situations. Seems like we'd have someone from a helmet company on here that might have some valuable input.

Quote = "By innov8actionsports.com (innov8) on Friday, July 13, 2007 - 11:20 am:

I can tell you that since I have been wearing a helmet, witch has been for over a year now, I have not had one concussion.
That answered the question for me.(does a helmet help with concussion's)"

I agree. I was lucky enough to win a hemlet at Wakefest a few weeks ago and have worn it out every time since then. As soon as I stand up on the board I forget Im wearing it and it has helped me go bigger since I feel more protected. Im 100% for wearing helmets.

Matt you make a great point. My kids wear both a helmet and a mouthguard. The mouthguard was originally to protect the many thousands of $$ I spent on braces. Maybe I should start wearing one now too.

I just want to know when helmet manufacturers are going to start putting "spines" on their helmets to make them land softer.

I personally think that the 'increased surface area', as applied to deceleration of the head isn't founded on much more than speculation and ponderance.

Think about the multitude of angles that the head can strike the water. Think about the shape of a helmet and the fact that there is a large break in contour at the bottom edge. On a side hit, you could argue that there is less surface area on initial impact if you consider the rounded shape of the helmet and the fact that it stops much haigher than the remainder of the side of your head/face. It's too random to point at and conclude that you have a larger surface area and more abrupt decelleration in any number of crash scenarios. Helmets aren't a big square block attached to your head. The have shape and contour breaks.

Who's done the modelling that even suggests helmets cause more rapid deceleration?

We DO know how concussions occur, and how the idea of a 'crumple zone' of a helmet applies to protecting the brain from passing through the surrounding fluids and bruising upon impact with the skull. Helmet designers know how to protect the brain from very abrupt impacts...impacts that go way beyond what we sustain in wakeboarding. If there was indeed a quantifiable risk created by the additional surface area, the helmet designers can, and would, engineer the energy absorbing potion of the helmet accordingly. Helmets are designed and tested to a specific maximum resultant G force, dropped against a solid surface. Even with the 'surface area' considered, water is a softer surface than the solid surface which the helmets are tested against.

As for my wake-induced concussion...I was mostly ok until I got into the boat. Then I went blind for an hour or so...followed by the typical nausea and dumb-dumb feeling.

(My qualifications on this matter are only my very large head and the numerous impacts I have sustained as a result of said large head. I hit my melon EVERYTHING.)

(Message edited by Mammoth on July 13, 2007)

(Message edited by Mammoth on July 13, 2007)

its intresting with the large head scenario...I have a very small and narrow head and have never had a real concussion.....there have been a couple of times when I didn't feel so good for an hour or so....but none of the stuff described here. One guy on my crew has a big noggin...and whenever he face plants he complains of a brief headache. chris j I think your right on.....we dont really need helmets as such we need some device that can punch hole into the water...almost like a skintight helmet or band with things sticking out of it to break the water....I am sure there is money to be made here....as every helmet has been made to hit a hard object..not break water surface tension

Helmets should be covered with phasers. Not only will that provide softer "landings," but they will also double as those little dimples they put on golf balls to make them fly farther, thus giving you more air when jumping. I'm freakin' smart!

^ sips guinness

BRILLIANT!

Dave...the opposite happens

Damien...hate to break it to you buddy...but you're still a die hard!!

Damien...BTW...your raley is my favorite trick that you do..no one comes close to your raleys!!

Matt...you are WAY off....check this out
http://www.fi.edu/brain/head.htm

id give your head some time to heal and work on things that dont involve catchin an edge... i got my concussion and then started wearing a helmet which saved me on a few good falls and after about a year even when i take hard falls i dont get dizzy as easily

I have knock myself with and without a helmet.

i had about 8 concussions while in high school from football (safe right) and every time my head gets knocked around I feel the daze coming on...most of my concussions were minor but there was one where i still cant remember about 6 hours of my life without somebody telling me


but the other day my TS edge caught and I faceplanted hard and had to take an hour off to get back to normal...but i know it wasnt a concussion just bad head pain


but if you had more than a minor concussion you definately want time off or you'll end up with more and more


but like the nike slogan...just do it

Ya i think i am going to buy a helmet. Man i hate catching my backside.

oh yeah another thing...my cuz split his head open on the hydroslide when he first moved down and he wore a helmet for a while when wakeboarding but he doesn't wear it anymore...hasnt had to many nasty spills since

Your right So Cal. I looked into the theory I explained regarding the teeth creating the concussion and I could not find any newer or updating supporting information. I guess it was another medical theory that I was sold on when I had my last CT scan... My bad.

Im not sure but I think I have gotten a minor concussion before cause I had minor headaches for about a week that were annoying.

Matt....no worries,...but it bothers me that someone in the medical profession actually holds to that theory.

From my own personnal experience and that of my friends who are beginners. Helmets have prevented more concussions than they have caused. I didnt used to where tham and everytime I would fall hard to the head I would knock my self silly. On two different occasions I ended up throuwing uplater in the day because of the head trauma.
I have been riding with a helmet for the past 2 years and I have not had 1 concussion yet. And I have taken some hard falls as well.

You guys can debate what you want but in my case It has helped me prevent it.

Well speaking on MAtts theory after being a pro hockey player. He is def right in that most concussions for hockey players are caused that way.

So I would say how they are caused varies on the sport for sure. In wakeboarding in would be more along the lines of impact causing the brain to bump the skull. Where in hockey its usually an elbow or a shoulder in the chin that sends one to the fog. Ask any hockey player, ultimate fighter, and boxer why they wear a mouth guard. It ain't to hold their teeth in cuz they all just come out in one piece if you have one in. TRUST ME!

As to the whole helmet question? I have debated tis for yrs myself and still haven't coughed up the $$$ for one.....ALways get the same responses.....I agree with dave....needs to def be some research done here since the sport is making into the maain stream more and more each year.

If we are comparing water to concrete when it comes to some really hard landings, why don't we compare wakeboarders to motorcycle riders when it comes to falls? Are you better off to wear a brain bucket on a motorcycle if you fall and hit your melon on the concrete? Of course you are, so why not wear one while wakeboarding. It might not be DOT or Snell approved, but it's gotta help. I have three kids and a wife to support and love. I think i'll error on the side of safety and wear a helmet. What's $50 when we drop 10's of thousands of dollars on the other equipment. You guys talked me into the purchase (or I did). I got a Protec on order.

Brad...well said and great perspective

Someone told me once that the surface tension of water is greater than concrete, that's why platform divers have that little spray of water ( not to show them where to land but to break the tension of impact ).

So is a helmet going to help if you catch your heelside edge and your head does some stupid whiplash thing, that just seems to kill the brain?

Another thing to look at is that greater surface area equals less pounds per square inch. I'm not sure how that would affect breaking water tension or the deceleration of the head, but it is another factor that I don't think anyone else discussed. The difference in pounds/square inch is what allows a knife to go through a bullet proof vest, but not a bullet. That and exactly how much greater surface area does a helmet have with contours and shape when compared to the relatively flat sides of your head?