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Old     (mucktoerider)      Join Date: Jan 2007       05-29-2008, 4:16 AM Reply   
http://www.americansolutions.com/ All the material on this website makes sense. Not sure the price of fuel in your neighborhood...but we are at 4.19 for 87 octane in my neighborhood. 45 gallon tank = big bills. Check it out and sign if you agree.
Old     (kneeboarddad)      Join Date: Sep 2005       05-29-2008, 4:43 AM Reply   
When I saw this post my first reaction was "how stupid?" You can't affect the price of oil by signing a petition. I was wrong about this. American Solutions has an extremely interesting message. I am not political and I hate it when people e-mail me these kind of things, but this is something that needs to be circulated and aired.

I usually feel that we are powerless to affect change but with the technology of today and the right idea to promote maybe we can have an effect. I encourage everyone to go to the web site and watch the video.
Old     (redsupralaunch)      Join Date: Aug 2002       05-29-2008, 5:01 AM Reply   
David - I agree. The former Speaker of the House knows how to get things done. Please read and sign

(Message edited by redsupralaunch on May 29, 2008)
Old     (roughrivermike)      Join Date: Apr 2006       05-29-2008, 5:46 AM Reply   
Thanks for bringing this to our attention. I have signed and contacted my house members.
Old     (hyperliteguy_04)      Join Date: Jun 2007       05-29-2008, 5:54 AM Reply   
Done! Thanks guys!
Old     (watersnake)      Join Date: Jul 2006       05-29-2008, 7:57 AM Reply   
Hope this get through to them!
Signed and sent.
Old     (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004 Location: Tyler       05-29-2008, 8:04 AM Reply   
so this isn't about boycotting gas on Tuesdays and Thursdays?
Old     (innov8)      Join Date: May 2005       05-29-2008, 8:37 AM Reply   
Done and passed on to everyone I know.
Old     (ironcross25)      Join Date: Jul 2006       05-29-2008, 10:26 AM Reply   
Done
Old     (dppaneig)      Join Date: Feb 2008       05-29-2008, 11:07 AM Reply   
done
Old     (tonality)      Join Date: Mar 2005       05-29-2008, 1:12 PM Reply   
Hah! Filtered at work under "advocacy groups"

I feel so protected....
I'll def. take a look at this when i get home.
Old     (pwningjr)      Join Date: Apr 2007       05-29-2008, 2:06 PM Reply   
Done and Done.
Old     (daxxruckus)      Join Date: May 2008       05-29-2008, 3:12 PM Reply   
Signed
Old     (mucktoerider)      Join Date: Jan 2007       05-29-2008, 7:39 PM Reply   
Already, more than 140,000 people have signed the petition urging Congress to start drilling for oil domestically. Next week, it's our goal to deliver more than 250,000 signatures to the United States Senate as a first step toward stopping the destructive Warner-Lieberman bill which would raise the cost of gasoline, diesel fuel, aviation fuel, natural gas and coal.

Americans truly have a choice - a choice between paying more and sending more money to foreign dictators, or producing more oil domestically and paying less. I hope you'll forward this email update to your friends and family and ask them their choice, and encourage them to sign the petition and join this movement.

Again, thanks for your support and for standing with me for real change.


Message from Newt. From my understanding this petition has only been circulated for a few days. So not bad...spread the word...they are needing 1 million by the time the November elections roll around.
Old     (s2man)      Join Date: Apr 2008       05-29-2008, 9:22 PM Reply   
did anyone think to sign a petition to make boats more fuel efficient?
Old     (owenitall)      Join Date: Jun 2007       05-29-2008, 11:26 PM Reply   
signed, up to 154,000 names now.
Old     (hoosairboy)      Join Date: Aug 2005       05-30-2008, 3:35 AM Reply   
Done. Thanks for the info

Stew- wrong blog. Start one for that if you wish.
Old     (seattle)      Join Date: Mar 2002       05-30-2008, 7:04 AM Reply   
Odd...

Tells me I've already signed the petition when I submit???
Old     (bcm4life)      Join Date: Jan 2007       05-30-2008, 7:57 AM Reply   
me too.... it says i already signed it.....what the hell??
Old     (a907rider)      Join Date: May 2006       05-30-2008, 9:08 AM Reply   
Signed and sent to my mailing list. As a guy who works in the oil fields of Alaska I think this is a great idea. Hopefully this will shut up the hippies and open up ANWAR to drilling. People who have never seen what a waste land the arctic tundra is and how animals actually benifit from us being here should keep their un-informed opinions to themselves. Sorry for the rant.
Old     (lastemperor)      Join Date: Oct 2005       05-30-2008, 9:42 AM Reply   
I hear we use anywhere between 25-50% of the world's oil supplies--I hope there's a TON of oil up there (someone can bother googling what the prospects are)...sounds like oil companies will need to drill more, so they'll keep gas prices high for "R&D" and "exploration", same reasons they cite for the high prices as is. seems like aspirin (temp relief) or even a placebo, not penicillin (a cure)...
Old     (tjm01)      Join Date: Nov 2006       05-30-2008, 9:53 AM Reply   
Done
Old     (innov8)      Join Date: May 2005       05-30-2008, 10:03 AM Reply   
Here is a little reading for you Dave.

http://www.rinf.com/columnists/news/the-us-governments-secret-colorado-oil-discovery
Old     (lastemperor)      Join Date: Oct 2005       05-30-2008, 10:41 AM Reply   
"secret" oil discoveries? sounds a little conspiracy-ish for me. That'd make someone very rich - i'm sure there's more to the story. I'm all for cheaper gas, but I just don't see it happening unless we hit the jackpot like Brazil (unlikely). there's a reason why this stuff is off limits (if it's environmental, then why is it so potentially hazardous?), not sure why, but I wish that american solutions would say why/how these areas were set aside.

in the meantime, it looks like you can just hit TJ before you hit the lake.

http://jalopnik.com/394236/americans-crossing-the-border-for-mexican-gas-tom-tancredo-under-suicide-watch
Old     (owenitall)      Join Date: Jun 2007       06-01-2008, 10:19 PM Reply   
bump.

up to 277,000+ signatures now, lets keep it going.
Old     (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       06-02-2008, 9:57 AM Reply   
I thought the real solution that we needed in this country was more refineries and not more drilling?
Old     (joran)      Join Date: May 2008       06-02-2008, 11:08 AM Reply   
Its both.

And to people asking about more fuel efficiency, it's easy to do. Just drop horsepower and the number of cylinders. Course, we don't want that do we? Energy is energy, there is only so much to get from burning something. It's why Ethanol won't work as a solution, it has less potential energy (almost 30% less than gas)

Domestic drilling puts money in the hands of the US, better for the economy that way. Eliminates lots of transportation fees (think it comes over the ocean for free?) and is not environmentally bad. Places we don't drill right now were done as part of "feel good" green plans done when we really were more concerned with warm fuzzy feelings than actually thinking.
Old     (mucktoerider)      Join Date: Jan 2007       06-03-2008, 4:33 AM Reply   
big debate start in DC today: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080602/ap_on_go_co/climate_showdown Im concerned with them throwing around the idea with carbon emmissions tax crap. I am sure boating will get hit with this for sure. Barbera Boxer's name is all over this thing. That is why I did not sign the Clean Boating Act of 2008. She has a hidden agenda. Good news is the americansolutions.com is gaining huge momentum. Keep it going. I had someone already send me an email at work urging me to sign. I just laughed a little and said...already done. I heard it being broadcasted on Major market radio this morning. So it is coming on strong for this movement.
Old     (sherman)      Join Date: Feb 2002       06-03-2008, 5:56 AM Reply   
done
Old     (pearsonville)      Join Date: Feb 2002       06-03-2008, 7:27 AM Reply   
Signed it... prices effecting my riding and fun-factor this year. Aloha Joe
Old     (c640947)      Join Date: Jan 2005       06-03-2008, 10:47 AM Reply   
This is sure to get interesting responses:

Am I the only one here that wants gas prices to stay or go up?

I cannot claim myself to be an enviromentalist, but I have over the last year or so started to look at my "footprint" on the planet and started modifying my habits. (Wakeboarding behind a boat is certainly a prime offender in my life and I consume more than my fair share of gasoline.) But I feel humans, Americans especially, consume way too much energy and there are three ways to slow it down. One is an environmental message to appeal to people's concern for the environment. That certainly worked on me and I am trying to change things in my life to consume less. The second and third are simply high enough prices (compared to income (as we have right now)) to get people to back off how much they consume and/or to spur investment and R&D into energy efficiency and alternative energy. We see the latter two happening right now, which is why this thread exists.

With the continued population growth and our increasing demands for energy, it doesn't seem logical for us (humans) to be able to consume at the same rate indefinitely. In the short term if we do, it will certainly make this planet more of an unpleasant place to live (and wakeboard) as pollution increases. Long term prices will eventually catch up as there are only a finite amount of resources available (the way we consume them now - crude oil.) Our offspring will eventually have to bear the burden, so why not start changing our habits now? Social responsibility.

I am not suggesting we stop wakeboarding or driving and move into grass huts by any means. I believe we should all start being more conscious of our individual impact on the environment. I am still trying to figure out how to modify a lot of my own habits, wakeboarding especially, and it is not an overnight process.

It's a tough topic to discuss with boaters and wakeboarders, but probably needs to come up more in discussions.

Any takers, or do I stand alone? I heard hints at the subject in some of the posts above. Not everyone wants cheaper gas prices regardless of the true "cost."


as a side note:

I trade wholesale energy futures (electricity and natural gas mostly) for a living, so I have a fair amount of expertise on the subject. I spend a lot of my day considering energy supply and demand over the next handful of years and that has contributed to my changing viewpoints.




And to stay on topic, I am indifferent to drilling in Alaska. I think it is inevitable. But I do believe we should save it for later on and focus on demand reduction, energy efficiency and alternative energy first.

I know I should start another thread, but I felt the message was applicable here.

Man that was the longest message I have ever written on wakeworld.
Old     (mucktoerider)      Join Date: Jan 2007       06-03-2008, 12:15 PM Reply   
Andrew....just can not agree on those topics. At least not all of them. Seems like when we tackle one problem..we make an even worse situation. For instance...Hybrid and electric vehicles. Now experts are saying it's bad...many drivers are falling asleep at the wheel in these cars..effects from electricity. You know...living under the power lines..causes cancer (I believe this to be true)...and cordless phones..(not mobiles...1 milli-watt) the ones in your homes...causing brain tumors..what do you think the effect of a hybrid battery will be on the human body? HASMAT cleanup in accidents...i do think of my 2 and 4 year old's future...what the Hell are we going to do with all these toxic batteries....not the answer. GM said today they are shutting down 4 truck plants and ridding of the Hummer brand...Perspective...your boat has a GM truck engine block. Or a Corvette block..but those will be gone soon too. A Nasa Scientist is concerned about the Earth too....A Solar Scientist is worried because there is the lack of sun spots on the sun...last time this occurred, there was a mini ice age in the 1500's. How do they come up with this data..I have no idea. But same holds true from the global warming data Al came up with. I am all for Hydrogen..but even that will have some negative effect eventually on the environment. Those fancy efficient light bulbs have mercury in them..thats not safe either. Wipe our butts with one square of toilet paper..get an infection and disease and spread that around. I don't know the answers. I am all for wind, solar,water to power up. We should. But to say humans cause warming is ludicris. Just remember..a pile of cow poo puts out more emmissions per day than an 1980 Olds cutlas. No fighting....just some thoughts to consider too. A lil debate!
Old     (saint_chris)      Join Date: Sep 2007       06-03-2008, 12:37 PM Reply   
Wow I didn’t realize how many people have been brain washed by Al Gore. Global warming, what a crock. I admire what Andrew is saying but, the US is only responsible for less then 12% of total Carbon emissions, and we are the only one (other then the UK) that wants to do anything about it.
There is no global warming. Period.
You can't find a real scientist anywhere in the world who can look you in the eye and, without hesitation, without clarification, without saying, kinda, mighta, sorta, if, and or but...say "yes, global warming is with us."
There is no evidence whatsoever to support such claims. Anyone who tells you that scientific research shows warming trends - be they teachers, news casters, Congressmen, Senators, Vice Presidents or Presidents - is wrong. There is no global warming.
Scientific research through U.S. Government satellite and balloon measurements shows that the temperature is actually cooling - very slightly - .037 degrees Celsius.
A little research into modern-day temperature trends bears this out. For example, in 1936 the Midwest of the United States experienced 49 consecutive days of temperatures over 90 degrees. There were another 49 consecutive days in 1955. But in 1992 there was only one day over 90 degrees and in 1997 only 5 days.
Because of modern science and improved equipment, this "cooling" trend has been most accurately documented over the past 18 years. Ironically, that's the same period of time the hysteria has grown over dire warnings of "warming."
Changes in global temperatures are natural. There is no proof that temperature is affected by anything that man has done.
I do say drill Alaska, Texas, Etc. The sad part is it will take between 5-15 years before we see the first barrel out of Alaska (depending on drill site). By the time we deplete our reserves there wont be the need for oil any more because of the brilliant minds that could fix the issue at hand (NOT WITH CORN) if the government would just simply stop blocking the development of alternative fuels, and out side the “oil companies” box.
Old     (lastemperor)      Join Date: Oct 2005       06-03-2008, 1:15 PM Reply   
Last i checked, global warming was widely supported by the scientific community long before Al Gore. Apparently, he's now the face of it (dunno, haven't seen his movie), but that doesn't mean that the theory is all his. From what I've heard, they have proved that refrigerants that we created (chlorofluorocarbons, I think) are partly responsible for the hole in the ozone, so I think it's safe to say that we're having SOME impact on this planet of ours (they proved the chemical reaction, it's science).

I agree, we need something new. And, since we've relied on relatively the same engine tech for the past 100 years, I have to think that someone/thing has been halting the progression.

People falling asleep in hybrids? I hadn't heard of that, so I googled it and saw what looks like an isolated incident...I think you're throwing darts on that one. I have heard that they are too quiet and may lead to pedestrian deaths, but not large amounts of people falling asleep.

But, batteries are bad for the environment for sure--do they somehow recycle them?? I know they're currently using nimh batteries in Toyotas, but lithium ion batteries are soon to come - ever seen one of those blow up??? I def wouldn't want to be in that car!

I don't know where I stand on all this drilling. I think oil rigs are pretty ugly, so I don't want to look at them if I don't have to. And, oil can be pretty nasty stuff, so I'd rather not have any more chance of it spilling. But, I can't say that will be the result of this, so I'm back to square one.

BTW, anyone see the new nanomesh that they developed that only soaks up oil even when immersed in water? Pretty cool.
Old     (waketx05)      Join Date: Feb 2008       06-03-2008, 1:27 PM Reply   
318,408... I back this just for job security purposes... the U.S. is full of oil and natural gas.. and not to stir up the hippies and tree huggers are the only people stoppin us from that.. Sorry for all of yall who are offended.. Just to back my self.. i do my share of Global Warming Acts.. i recycle.. i crush cans.. we smash as much garbage into one trash can as humanly possible.. but think about all the people who work in the oil field and earn a damn hard livin doin it.. i bust my ass for what i have.. and its not for everyone.. but if it wasnt for local drilling.. i would be screwed.. We also have the power to lookin into more hybrid technologies.. Im really not one to talk because i drive a big 4x4 pickup.. but wat about hybrid technologies in boats?????? sounds like a good idea to me.. not talkin trash.. just puttin in my 2 cents..
Old     (lastemperor)      Join Date: Oct 2005       06-03-2008, 1:32 PM Reply   
can't fault you for that one, ryan.
Old     (512boarder)      Join Date: Jul 2004       06-03-2008, 2:55 PM Reply   
Chris i couldnt have said it better myself, global warming is a huge crock, as far as environmental stuff, i think the concern should be less about how can we help the environment and more about how can we do three things: 1:make our use of fossil fuels more efficient because an average car is running around 30 percent effiency as far as energy conversion goes; 2: how can we use our other resources to derive energy in a better, more efficient way, and 3: what alternative energy sources should we be using and developing into sustainable long term solutions to our oil addiction? i am for just about every single new idea except corn ethanol. i think our government and many national opinion leaders have screwed us all over by investing so much into corn ethanol. in my opinion diesel engines and technology is our near future - vegetable oil contains just as much energy in a diesel engine as oil does - why not go half and half?
Old     (lcky275)      Join Date: Jul 2002       06-03-2008, 7:52 PM Reply   
Done.


I honestly think that it's speculators driving up the price of oil, and half of those guys work for the oil companies. I also think it's complete crap that China can drill for oil miles off our coast but the Dirt people throw a fit so we can't do the same.
Old     (mucktoerider)      Join Date: Jan 2007       06-04-2008, 4:27 AM Reply   
Exactly right Lucky. Just like the Cubans drilling 9 miles off the coast of
Florida. We had the opportunity to drill that exact same spot, but couldn't. Who do you trust to do a good job drilling. who has the better technology. Look at Michigan Tech University...they have awesome Civil engineering programs that know how to make little impact to the environment, but still can extract oil, gas..whatever. Same with Anwar...the students have been there and said it can be done..that was 10 years ago...still nothing. This petition is not drill and then sell..this is drill and keep for our own use. We can still carpool...i do everyday with two others. But there is no reason why we are not drilling. As for Hybrid boats...do you really want that kind of current generated from those batteries on the water? A firefighter has been killed from a hybrid when cutting into it with the jaws of life. Not a good idea. It's not like your car battery that starts your boat...it is much different. I can see Hydrogen being huge with the boating industry.
Old     (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       06-04-2008, 7:42 AM Reply   
I don't think you have to believe in Global Warming to believe that we should be trying to figure out how to use less oil in our lives.

As for GM closing the truck plants, there are ALWAYS going to be trucks and I sincerely believe that diesel is the wave of the future with trucks and recreational boats but the US is just a little slow.
Old     (c640947)      Join Date: Jan 2005       06-04-2008, 10:45 AM Reply   
I have to laugh a bit. I did not once say anything about global temperatures. Did you guys even read my post? Or just assume I am an environmental hippy and just reply. No enviromentalist I know spends $150 a week in fuel, mostly for a boat. lol

My thoughts had two points:

1. Supply and demand of global resources. There are a limited amount of global resources and there is an ever increasing number of people to consume them. Some of you got the point and mentioned things like energy efficiency. That's what I was getting at, but also that maybe we consume more than we need to in general (energy and products.)

Higher prices for traditional fuels and resources will reduce demand (consumption) and supply will last longer, so maybe higher prices are justified here?

2. Environment. Global warming- I don't know the answer and that's not was I was talking about anyway. All kinds of data both ways on that one. I am talking about things like air quality, amount of undeveloped land, size of landfills, water quality, etc. Look at a city like Denver on a still day. Heck, come look at my window ledge (in the city) - black soot from the smog and I breathe that crap. Granted I live near a street corner. But I think that kind of impact we have is pretty undeniable. Heck water quality should be a big deal on this site. I don't wanna wakeboard in a dirty polluted river. The way I see to lessen the impact, or at least not make it worse since more people are coming into the world daily, is to make things we use cleaner and more efficient and to consider our consumption habits.

A lot of the things that will make the world cleaner and less polluted are hot subjects now. Everything is green. Its all about alternative energy. Etc. But one reason why these more desireable products and technologies are around and getting attention is because our old standby fuel, crude, is expensive, so these technologies are now economic. So to keep efficiency and clean products going, I am suggesting high gas prices may be good.

Hopefully I was more clear in my thoughts this time. I am still learning myself and working to understand what I should do to be a responsible citizen and what is just bullcrap.
Old     (mucktoerider)      Join Date: Jan 2007       06-04-2008, 11:36 AM Reply   
cleaner water....i guess one of the biggest answers to that question....is stay out of the water. Stop shipping all together. No boats in the water unless you have a paddle. You have got to know that people who are focused on the environment...will definitely have a problem with boaters on the water. So maybe kiteboarding will be the only thing allowed. Dont you dare take a piss in the water either.... I am looking forward to reading a book called the "Blue Planet in Green Shackles"
Czech Republic.President Klaus makes the case that policies being proposed to address global warming are not justified by current science and are, in fact, a dangerous threat to freedom and prosperity around the world.

Klaus argues that the environmental movement has transformed itself into an ideology that seeks to restrict human activities at any cost, while pursuing an impossible utopian dream of a perfectly "natural" world. The supposed threat of human civilization against a fragile Earth has become an article of faith, especially in the realm of global warming activism.


Looks interesting for sure.
Old     (alevitt)      Join Date: Aug 2006       06-04-2008, 2:08 PM Reply   
Andrew
I hear you, too bad nobody else on this site seems to.
Yes, the environmental movement is, unfortunately, a fear-based campaign, which is entirely the wrong approach.
Taking an extremist/fundamentalist approach is also not the right way. There are so many simple changes that people can make on a day to day basis that would make an incredible difference. Turn your AC down a couple of degrees, turn your heat down a couple of degrees, make a conscious effort to eat produce that grown more locally, recycle, etc... We don't have to give up all our "freedoms" and drastically change our lives, like eating soy burgers, wearing hemp clothing and relying only on the wind and sun for power.
I did my own little experiment where I drove at the speed limit or only slightly above for a month instead of the way I usually drive (10-20 mph over on highways). My car turned out to be way more fuel effecient and I saved about $60 on gas that month. May not seem like a lot but if everyone makes small changes it will have a huge impact.
How about putting a little less ballast in wake boats these days. I mean, does the average guy need 5000 lbs of ballast? Look at the old Byerly video that was floating around online a couple of months ago; he was riding behind a barefoot boat doing switch mobes on a directional board.
I'm not here to get into some crazy debate on all this stuff, everybody just needs to take a step back and take a breath.
Old     (c640947)      Join Date: Jan 2005       06-04-2008, 2:17 PM Reply   
Again, I think you are misreading me. Cleaner or just "not dirtier than it is now" is preferred. Wouldn't you agree? I am not saying all water on the planet should be purified drinkable water. Things like restricting facilities that put back more pollutants in the water than are already in it. I ride on one of the dirtiest rivers in the US so it hits home with me. And just down to the simple don't toss your empty beer cans into the lake or river when you are done. My friends do that sometimes and it gets on my nerves to no end. Every time it rains that river is full of trash from upstream. I mean like people's garbage.

I agree to a degree with Klaus that the extreme environmental movement cares little about cost. But they probably balance out industry that cares nothing about the environment. We are what's in between and we are the ones that will be making balanced, intelligent decisions on cost and benefit.
Old     (saint_chris)      Join Date: Sep 2007       06-04-2008, 2:51 PM Reply   
Andrew, I made an assumption that you pointed at but didn't say. Sorry.

Your issue seems to be with peoples morals more then big industry. I'm sure those companies that put beer in aluminum cans are on the hit list of the green movement, that problem will eventually be taken care of.

Lucky, it's back to the old, why use a sterile needle to give a lethal injection?

Yes I know off the main topic again I do want to say the green campaign is comical and scary to me. I'm not saying I don't want a cleaner world but the fact that they will eventually infringe on my/our liberties as a US citizens, and use laws like "endangered animals" to carry on their views is frankly over the top.

I find it funny that Gore wins an award and then jumps in his private jet and go all over the world emitting a carbon footprint larger then most 3rd world countries just to shake the hands and kiss the babies.

-edit removed the word communist

(Message edited by saint_chris on June 04, 2008)
Old     (mucktoerider)      Join Date: Jan 2007       06-05-2008, 4:11 AM Reply   
Andrew...I get what your saying to. But there are some extremist out there. One of them wants to be president. That scares me. Did you know they are talking about cards for carbon credits. Can you imagine how much the card will cost for boat owners. These carbon cards are a HUGE tax increase. And your choice of hobby or recreation will reflect what you pay in carbon credits. This does not sound like the USA I want to live in. Taking away freedoms...pay the government....communisism, or collective socialism. Gasoline pricing is the start of this trend. That's why I am for drilling in the US..I agree it should be temporary until alternative fuels comes on board....but when will that dramatically take effect. My brother skipped over the government. he is running a hydrogen charger on his Honda and saving a ton. He fuels up once a month. Why are manufacturers not doing this? My bet is, they have not found a way to capitalize on it. I think Oil prices are up because they know the future is grim for them, with alternative fuels are being sorted out. And with the gas sippers showing up. But like I said before..electric is not the answer...it is way more costly to our future. Think about it...remember in the 80's and early 90's GM had electric cars. It flopped! Hybrid is working..but I would like to see the outcome 10 years down the road and the REAL impact it has on the environment. Andrew...I understand your frustration with cans....you should have a bottle deposit..michigan has 10 cents a can...and it works. That created a huge decrease in that respect. Maybe they should do that more with other containers and such. The world needs to stop polluting...china, india etc. etc. But need to dump this global warming idealogy. It is a farce.
Old     (lastemperor)      Join Date: Oct 2005       06-05-2008, 12:32 PM Reply   
In Venezuela, a socialist state, gas is under $1/gal, and they don't have a green movement. Just make sure you don't criticize the President, and you guys can live whatever lifestyle you'd like. If gas and carbon credits are what you're worried about, then maybe socialism is the way to go? Otherwise, I think you are being WAY too overdramatic with the "socialism" rhetoric. Relax, it's not being proposed. There may be some weird little taxes, but no matter who gets elected, the country isn't going to change that much. Our political system is too broken to ever see drastic changes either way. Pulling out of the war and raising cap gains taxes are probably the most drastic things you'll see if the Dems are elected.

I know that you guys don't want to alter your lifestyles, and especially don't like the idea that something you're doing could have a negative effect on the world, but perhaps it's the truth? The science behind global warming is pretty basic chemistry (CO2 thermostat, etc.), and I remember it from high school. The earth tends to heat up or cool overtime, but I think the point is that it's accelerated quite a bit since the industrial revolution.

There may be some unfortunate sacrifices, but such is life. If I have to give up my Land Rover and it's 13mpg V8 for a civic, I'll deal. Current gas prices are the result of greed on the behalf oil companies and commodities traders. What guarantees do we have that gas will even go down as a result of drilling here? Honestly, they will charge the most they possibly can for the product before usage decreases significantly. unless consumption goes way down this summer bc of $4/gal gas, then gas was obviously under-priced to begin with. complaining doesn't have much to do with supply and demand. And no matter how much oil they're sitting on, the price will stay the same if we continue to pay for it.

someone brought up a great point about the commodities traders. when oil was at $108 (record high), Goldmann Sachs released a report saying that it could easily go as high as $200 in the next year and up to the high $130s this summer. No surprise that it's now trading there. Good thing GS has no interest in the price of oil rising...

I'm much more concerned with the government monitoring my communications and illegally detaining me (as unlikely as it is) than I am doing something for the sake of the environment. The concern is a great thing because it gives urgency to a looming problem. And problems are necessary for solutions, especially in this case where the solutions are long overdue.
Old     (mucktoerider)      Join Date: Jan 2007       06-05-2008, 1:11 PM Reply   
communication monitoring. Are you hiding something Dave? And is the government looking for you right now to put you in detainment. Sounds like you don't believe or care about what our fore fathers fought for. Can't believe someone supports Socialism on here. WOW..I am just astounded. Dude..do you even wakeboard with your viewpoints the way they are? Because you sound more like a hypricrit to me. I am certain that wakeboarding has a negative effect on the environment according to environmentalist. Boat sales have plunged..meaning less sales..less people..less people in our sport. More government infrigment. Gas prices have soared every since the Democrats took the house and the senate...what does that say about how things are run. This year is huge when it comes elections....i will tell you this..our choices IMO....suck! Go to the website..check it out...read though it..watch the videos. If you don't like it don't sign it. Good luck unloading your Landrover and getting value for it. I would like to see a civic towing a boat..or PWC for that matter.
Old     (froese)      Join Date: Jun 2005       06-05-2008, 1:26 PM Reply   
Haha! Two extremists who like to hear themselves talk... Venezuela has cheap gas because of their HUGE offshore oil supply. And the price of gas has nothing to do with who controls congress.

Here's the spew from the top two posters on this thread... that's a lotta letters... :-)

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++
http://www.americansolutions.com/ All the material on this website makes sense. Not sure the price of fuel in your neighborhood...but we are at 4.19 for 87 octane in my neighborhood. 45 gallon tank = big bills. Check it out and sign if you agree.

Already, more than 140,000 people have signed the petition urging Congress to start drilling for oil domestically. Next week, it's our goal to deliver more than 250,000 signatures to the United States Senate as a first step toward stopping the destructive Warner-Lieberman bill which would raise the cost of gasoline, diesel fuel, aviation fuel, natural gas and coal.

Americans truly have a choice - a choice between paying more and sending more money to foreign dictators, or producing more oil domestically and paying less. I hope you'll forward this email update to your friends and family and ask them their choice, and encourage them to sign the petition and join this movement.

Again, thanks for your support and for standing with me for real change.


Message from Newt. From my understanding this petition has only been circulated for a few days. So not bad...spread the word...they are needing 1 million by the time the November elections roll around.

I hear we use anywhere between 25-50% of the world's oil supplies--I hope there's a TON of oil up there (someone can bother googling what the prospects are)...sounds like oil companies will need to drill more, so they'll keep gas prices high for "R&D" and "exploration", same reasons they cite for the high prices as is. seems like aspirin (temp relief) or even a placebo, not penicillin (a cure)...

"secret" oil discoveries? sounds a little conspiracy-ish for me. That'd make someone very rich - i'm sure there's more to the story. I'm all for cheaper gas, but I just don't see it happening unless we hit the jackpot like Brazil (unlikely). there's a reason why this stuff is off limits (if it's environmental, then why is it so potentially hazardous?), not sure why, but I wish that american solutions would say why/how these areas were set aside.

in the meantime, it looks like you can just hit TJ before you hit the lake.

http://jalopnik.com/394236/americans-crossing-the-border-for-mexican-gas-tom-tancredo-under-suicide-watch

big debate start in DC today: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080602/ap_on_go_co/climate_showdown Im concerned with them throwing around the idea with carbon emmissions tax crap. I am sure boating will get hit with this for sure. Barbera Boxer's name is all over this thing. That is why I did not sign the Clean Boating Act of 2008. She has a hidden agenda. Good news is the americansolutions.com is gaining huge momentum. Keep it going. I had someone already send me an email at work urging me to sign. I just laughed a little and said...already done. I heard it being broadcasted on Major market radio this morning. So it is coming on strong for this movement.

Andrew....just can not agree on those topics. At least not all of them. Seems like when we tackle one problem..we make an even worse situation. For instance...Hybrid and electric vehicles. Now experts are saying it's bad...many drivers are falling asleep at the wheel in these cars..effects from electricity. You know...living under the power lines..causes cancer (I believe this to be true)...and cordless phones..(not mobiles...1 milli-watt) the ones in your homes...causing brain tumors..what do you think the effect of a hybrid battery will be on the human body? HASMAT cleanup in accidents...i do think of my 2 and 4 year old's future...what the Hell are we going to do with all these toxic batteries....not the answer. GM said today they are shutting down 4 truck plants and ridding of the Hummer brand...Perspective...your boat has a GM truck engine block. Or a Corvette block..but those will be gone soon too. A Nasa Scientist is concerned about the Earth too....A Solar Scientist is worried because there is the lack of sun spots on the sun...last time this occurred, there was a mini ice age in the 1500's. How do they come up with this data..I have no idea. But same holds true from the global warming data Al came up with. I am all for Hydrogen..but even that will have some negative effect eventually on the environment. Those fancy efficient light bulbs have mercury in them..thats not safe either. Wipe our butts with one square of toilet paper..get an infection and disease and spread that around. I don't know the answers. I am all for wind, solar,water to power up. We should. But to say humans cause warming is ludicris. Just remember..a pile of cow poo puts out more emmissions per day than an 1980 Olds cutlas. No fighting....just some thoughts to consider too. A lil debate!

Last i checked, global warming was widely supported by the scientific community long before Al Gore. Apparently, he's now the face of it (dunno, haven't seen his movie), but that doesn't mean that the theory is all his. From what I've heard, they have proved that refrigerants that we created (chlorofluorocarbons, I think) are partly responsible for the hole in the ozone, so I think it's safe to say that we're having SOME impact on this planet of ours (they proved the chemical reaction, it's science).

I agree, we need something new. And, since we've relied on relatively the same engine tech for the past 100 years, I have to think that someone/thing has been halting the progression.

People falling asleep in hybrids? I hadn't heard of that, so I googled it and saw what looks like an isolated incident...I think you're throwing darts on that one. I have heard that they are too quiet and may lead to pedestrian deaths, but not large amounts of people falling asleep.

But, batteries are bad for the environment for sure--do they somehow recycle them?? I know they're currently using nimh batteries in Toyotas, but lithium ion batteries are soon to come - ever seen one of those blow up??? I def wouldn't want to be in that car!

I don't know where I stand on all this drilling. I think oil rigs are pretty ugly, so I don't want to look at them if I don't have to. And, oil can be pretty nasty stuff, so I'd rather not have any more chance of it spilling. But, I can't say that will be the result of this, so I'm back to square one.

BTW, anyone see the new nanomesh that they developed that only soaks up oil even when immersed in water? Pretty cool.

can't fault you for that one, ryan.

Exactly right Lucky. Just like the Cubans drilling 9 miles off the coast of
Florida. We had the opportunity to drill that exact same spot, but couldn't. Who do you trust to do a good job drilling. who has the better technology. Look at Michigan Tech University...they have awesome Civil engineering programs that know how to make little impact to the environment, but still can extract oil, gas..whatever. Same with Anwar...the students have been there and said it can be done..that was 10 years ago...still nothing. This petition is not drill and then sell..this is drill and keep for our own use. We can still carpool...i do everyday with two others. But there is no reason why we are not drilling. As for Hybrid boats...do you really want that kind of current generated from those batteries on the water? A firefighter has been killed from a hybrid when cutting into it with the jaws of life. Not a good idea. It's not like your car battery that starts your boat...it is much different. I can see Hydrogen being huge with the boating industry.

cleaner water....i guess one of the biggest answers to that question....is stay out of the water. Stop shipping all together. No boats in the water unless you have a paddle. You have got to know that people who are focused on the environment...will definitely have a problem with boaters on the water. So maybe kiteboarding will be the only thing allowed. Dont you dare take a piss in the water either.... I am looking forward to reading a book called the "Blue Planet in Green Shackles"
Czech Republic.President Klaus makes the case that policies being proposed to address global warming are not justified by current science and are, in fact, a dangerous threat to freedom and prosperity around the world.

Klaus argues that the environmental movement has transformed itself into an ideology that seeks to restrict human activities at any cost, while pursuing an impossible utopian dream of a perfectly "natural" world. The supposed threat of human civilization against a fragile Earth has become an article of faith, especially in the realm of global warming activism.


Looks interesting for sure.

Andrew...I get what your saying to. But there are some extremist out there. One of them wants to be president. That scares me. Did you know they are talking about cards for carbon credits. Can you imagine how much the card will cost for boat owners. These carbon cards are a HUGE tax increase. And your choice of hobby or recreation will reflect what you pay in carbon credits. This does not sound like the USA I want to live in. Taking away freedoms...pay the government....communisism, or collective socialism. Gasoline pricing is the start of this trend. That's why I am for drilling in the US..I agree it should be temporary until alternative fuels comes on board....but when will that dramatically take effect. My brother skipped over the government. he is running a hydrogen charger on his Honda and saving a ton. He fuels up once a month. Why are manufacturers not doing this? My bet is, they have not found a way to capitalize on it. I think Oil prices are up because they know the future is grim for them, with alternative fuels are being sorted out. And with the gas sippers showing up. But like I said before..electric is not the answer...it is way more costly to our future. Think about it...remember in the 80's and early 90's GM had electric cars. It flopped! Hybrid is working..but I would like to see the outcome 10 years down the road and the REAL impact it has on the environment. Andrew...I understand your frustration with cans....you should have a bottle deposit..michigan has 10 cents a can...and it works. That created a huge decrease in that respect. Maybe they should do that more with other containers and such. The world needs to stop polluting...china, india etc. etc. But need to dump this global warming idealogy. It is a farce.

In Venezuela, a socialist state, gas is under $1/gal, and they don't have a green movement. Just make sure you don't criticize the President, and you guys can live whatever lifestyle you'd like. If gas and carbon credits are what you're worried about, then maybe socialism is the way to go? Otherwise, I think you are being WAY too overdramatic with the "socialism" rhetoric. Relax, it's not being proposed. There may be some weird little taxes, but no matter who gets elected, the country isn't going to change that much. Our political system is too broken to ever see drastic changes either way. Pulling out of the war and raising cap gains taxes are probably the most drastic things you'll see if the Dems are elected.

I know that you guys don't want to alter your lifestyles, and especially don't like the idea that something you're doing could have a negative effect on the world, but perhaps it's the truth? The science behind global warming is pretty basic chemistry (CO2 thermostat, etc.), and I remember it from high school. The earth tends to heat up or cool overtime, but I think the point is that it's accelerated quite a bit since the industrial revolution.

There may be some unfortunate sacrifices, but such is life. If I have to give up my Land Rover and it's 13mpg V8 for a civic, I'll deal. Current gas prices are the result of greed on the behalf oil companies and commodities traders. What guarantees do we have that gas will even go down as a result of drilling here? Honestly, they will charge the most they possibly can for the product before usage decreases significantly. unless consumption goes way down this summer bc of $4/gal gas, then gas was obviously under-priced to begin with. complaining doesn't have much to do with supply and demand. And no matter how much oil they're sitting on, the price will stay the same if we continue to pay for it.

someone brought up a great point about the commodities traders. when oil was at $108 (record high), Goldmann Sachs released a report saying that it could easily go as high as $200 in the next year and up to the high $130s this summer. No surprise that it's now trading there. Good thing GS has no interest in the price of oil rising...

I'm much more concerned with the government monitoring my communications and illegally detaining me (as unlikely as it is) than I am doing something for the sake of the environment. The concern is a great thing because it gives urgency to a looming problem. And problems are necessary for solutions, especially in this case where the solutions are long overdue.

communication monitoring. Are you hiding something Dave? And is the government looking for you right now to put you in detainment. Sounds like you don't believe or care about what our fore fathers fought for. Can't believe someone supports Socialism on here. WOW..I am just astounded. Dude..do you even wakeboard with your viewpoints the way they are? Because you sound more like a hypricrit to me. I am certain that wakeboarding has a negative effect on the environment according to environmentalist. Boat sales have plunged..meaning less sales..less people..less people in our sport. More government infrigment. Gas prices have soared every since the Democrats took the house and the senate...what does that say about how things are run. This year is huge when it comes elections....i will tell you this..our choices IMO....suck! Go to the website..check it out...read though it..watch the videos. If you don't like it don't sign it. Good luck unloading your Landrover and getting value for it. I would like to see a civic towing a boat..or PWC for that matter.
Old     (lastemperor)      Join Date: Oct 2005       06-05-2008, 2:08 PM Reply   
I wakeboard and I enjoy it. It's pretty fun, but far from the only fun thing on the planet.

As for being monitored, it's a slippery slope. It starts out of necessity, but can quickly get out of hand. It's very big-brotheresque, and I don't want the future looking like 1984--that actually scares me.

Of course socialism isn't why gas is cheap in Venezuela. I was sarcastically pointing out that there's no correlation between socialism and high gas prices, as was suggested here: "Taking away freedoms...pay the government....communisism, or collective socialism. Gasoline pricing is the start of this trend."

Seems like the reason prices are so high is capitalism at it's finest: we're willing to pay higher prices, so they'll likely charge them regardless of the supply.

Gas prices soared under the republican senate, house and executive administration--it's nothing new, it's just summertime.
Old     (mucktoerider)      Join Date: Jan 2007       06-05-2008, 6:38 PM Reply   
Sorry. I guess it is not of any interest to me to check a thread that I started. And to disagree with a post that contradicts the topic of the thread. I got it...censorship....conservative opinions bad. Cut back on gas....gas bad...environment good. It was a real pleasure working a white collar job today in my 78 degree high humidity office...because my company is going green. So far that we changed our motto and logo after 100 + years reflecting our greeness. I live it everyday. Pain in the butt carpooling with different schedules from your co workers..having to wait for them or they are waiting for you for the ride home. Are any of you doing this currently? If not...don't bitch! I am...and I don't like it. But the worst is yet to come from what they tell me here in the auto business. Not just domestics...but asian companies too. I am experiencing this first hand. 4 plus dollars has changed lives around where I live. And if it goes up 1.25 more with this new tax the senate is voting on....what will that look like. Great Lake State...have not seen nearly as many people on the water this year...some say great...to me it's real erie and depressing!
Old     (c640947)      Join Date: Jan 2005       06-06-2008, 10:49 AM Reply   
This article helps explain what is going on in crude recently:

http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/06/news/economy/gas_prices/index.htm?cnn=yes

Some excerpts:

"When the greenback softens, the price of crude oil increases, prompting investors to look to commodities as a hedge against inflation.

In addition, crude oil is traded globally in U.S. dollars. The less valuable the dollar, the more expensive crude oil becomes.

...

The dollar began its slide Thursday after European Central Bank president Jean-Claude Trichet said the bank might raise interest rates, which would strengthening the value of the euro. If the euro gains, oil becomes cheaper, European investors buy more oil, raising the price of oil in U.S. dollars
...

"
Old     (mucktoerider)      Join Date: Jan 2007       06-06-2008, 5:22 PM Reply   
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D914R9VG0&show_article=1 The 4th of July is going to Suck! It also mentions..with the price of oil..people are buying less elsewhere. And unemployment is skyrocketing. It's all related...otherwise it would not be mentioned all together in this article. Let's get our own oil and to hell with OPEC!
Old    wakejjboard12            06-06-2008, 6:04 PM Reply   
i've been avoiding this thread for a reason and now i wish i would've never opened it. please research things before you write. some people are so ignorant.
Old     (innov8)      Join Date: May 2005       06-07-2008, 9:19 AM Reply   
Thats pretty ignorant to make a comment like that without an explanation IMO.
Old     (malibuboarder75)      Join Date: Jan 2004       06-07-2008, 10:52 AM Reply   
http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/

Scroll down to "Can't we just explore more for oil?"
Old    wakejjboard12            06-07-2008, 12:20 PM Reply   
explanation= research before you type.


having a B.S. in environmental science and being an avid boarder i have mixed feelings about the subject, all i was saying was get your facts before you argue.
Old     (mucktoerider)      Join Date: Jan 2007       06-07-2008, 9:10 PM Reply   
State your research Jessica. That is what innov8action is asking. I am curious too. Children in classrooms are showed the Innconvient Truth from Al Gore...but majority of the scientist that once supported his idealogy, don't anymore. Solar scientist is now concerned that the lack of sun spots is indication that a mini ice age like the one in the 1500's effecting Europe could be in our near future. I think alternative fuels is great. But we are far from it. Sitting close to Hybrid batteries can not be good after the studies with powerlines and cordless phones causing brain tumors. Recycling these batteries is going to be a disaster in 10 years plus. I know....the company I work for makes them. The only thing that can be recycled on batteries is the housing...not the rare earth metals. Rare is the key word here....that resource will dry up much faster than oil. Seems like their solutions are worst than the ailment they are trying to fix. Think of that toxic waste. Yhea we need to do something..but this is not it. Alaska...Anwar...hmmm..why do you suppose that the US made Alaska the 50th state...because it is cold...nah...because it has oil...why do you think Soviet Union hated the US...because we have Alaska. And once they found out it had oil rich....they wanted it. I get my facts thru history books and facts. Not the news slanted media.. And yes they are slanted..I worked that industry for 6 years. It is very corrupt. I like to hear and watch the record temps on weather reports...."looks like we will hit the record high..last time it was this hot..it was such and such degrees in 1840's etc. etc. Much less population and horse drawn carriages. How do you explain global warming caused by human factors back then. Keep believeing the Hype about warming, your making my company stinking huge money. Im in a akward position because I don't believe it.
Old     (nchype)      Join Date: Jun 2008       06-07-2008, 9:32 PM Reply   
LOL,
DONE!!!
LOL
Old    wakejjboard12            06-08-2008, 10:39 AM Reply   
"Keep believeing the Hype about warming, your making my company stinking huge money. Im in a akward position because I don't believe it."



so you are saying that nothing we do increases the effects of warming?
Old    wakejjboard12            06-08-2008, 10:52 AM Reply   
Im not a Al Gore follower or an "enivronmental hippie" but to say..."There is no global warming. Period." is ignorant.

I don't have data to prove what the affects of warming are but to say it isn't occuring at all is ridiculous. I've never met a scientist who likes to talk about this because it always turns into a political debate. but most agree its occuring.

i think some of you have the wrong idea about environmental scientists. their goal is to help man kind while not destroying the earth. you'd be surprised how many enivronmentalist would agree with drilling in alaska.
Old     (mkperceptions)      Join Date: Jan 2007       06-08-2008, 3:19 PM Reply   
signed
Old     (mucktoerider)      Join Date: Jan 2007       06-09-2008, 12:31 AM Reply   
jessica..is not a global stance...but a planetary trend. All the other planets in our solar system have changed the same degree in temperature. Our sun is doing this change and has done it before...look at history. Now that most scientist acknowledge this they have backed off the man made global warming. I think we should try to make our air quality better, and not pollute or purposely be distructive. But this warming is just a scare to generate money. Like I said...I know my company is making money off from it. Everyday I hear Sustainable. That is only because the word diversity got old. My company makes a lot of products that people will buy that relates to warming. Batteries for Hybrids, earth friendly air conditioner units, hvac systems, automotive parts...made from soy bean, and other sustainable products. But the cost of goods, oil, food, energy going up will eventually put a lot of middle class people in the poverty class. Your paycheck is not going up at the same rate as the price of food, fuel, clothes and energy. So you are taking a paycut. Some agree we should pay more, thats generous. But do you want to pay the government more, or give money to people who REALLY need it (charities) It has been proven time and time again, people are less giving during economic times likes these..and this makes it much worse for teh world. late 70s and early 80's i remember the wind generators in peoples back yards. My best friends daad had a bank of solar panels on a frame work in his yard. A lot of that came and went. I think it will repeat the same. We had electric cars, we had chevettes and escorts...all came and went. those cars disappeared because it became a issue about fatality in car accidents. So once a lot of people die in small cars again..they will once again disappear. Or better yet..the Government is talking about 55mph speed limits to accomdate your new sub compact auto's.
Old     (saint_chris)      Join Date: Sep 2007       06-09-2008, 11:59 AM Reply   
Jessica,

Allow me to retort, there is no proof that global warming is caused by man. The only thing your BS proves is that you allowed yourself to be indoctrinated by a bunch of left wing, “I have tenure” teachers that teach a lot of opinion, not always fact, thus becoming a preacher of your teaches opinion. I might just be bitter because you singled me out in your statement. It’s just like Christ, no proof, and there are people on both sides of the isle on that one. But I’m sure you don’t call atheist ignorant do you?
Old     (lastemperor)      Join Date: Oct 2005       06-09-2008, 1:33 PM Reply   
Sustainability and diversity are very different concepts. They may be used as environmental buzzwords, but the ideology behind them is very real and very different. How people/corporations choose to exploit them is a different matter entirely. If you're not a fan of sustainability, then the current fervor should be welcome. The commodification of sustainability will likely dilute its meaning until it becomes irrelevant.

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