How to get my tower speakers LOUD while in boats are more quiet.

Hey all,
I just got my pro 60's for a steal of a deal and love them! however, on my older 01' bu, the inboat speakers in the dash by the windshield absolutely overpower everything. This makes it hard to turn up the volume loud to project the sound out the rider without totally making myself and my observer deaf! Do I need something like a ws-420 or can this be solved using the amps?

Jeff

The 420 won't fix that issue, they need to be on their own amp channels and tuned differently than the rest of the inboat speakers so they don't blow you out.

Also my cd's play SOO much louder than my ipod does through the 3.5 mm jack. Is this more of a dirty download situation or can and upgraded HU help out with this. I know cd's have higher quality sound but my old JVC headunit was not made to have an ipod hookup and I have it wired using the cd changer port with a special adapter from PAC. HELP ME!

Jeff

I have one big amp powering my 4 interior speakers, sub and two pro 60's and my WS420 works great for me. It has an option to adjust interior speakers and tower speakers separately.

Depending on your setup, you could wire the interior speakers to the front channels and the tower speakers to your rear channels and use the fade to adjust the volume, front to back that would save you from buying a WS420. Give us more details on your wiring setup and we may be able to help better.

Dave that doesn't address the issue he's having with his dash speakers.

Right now that is exactly how my boat is wired. I have a 4 channel amp that has the 4 inboats on the front two channels and the 2 pro 60's and the rear channels. I do fade use the fade F to R and it seems like the sound quality diminishes. If I am fading to the tower speakers more, do they receive a lower quality sound? My fader goes from 0-6 on my HU. When I have it to 3(half way) the in boats quiet down nicely but the tower speakers dont seem much louder at all.

However, I do plan on getting another amplifier because right now my pro 60's are being underpowered. They are only getting 75w rms right now. I would like to eventually do a sub and another set of tower speakers. Any good suggestions for an amp that would do the job?

Jeff

Get another 4 channel amp for your inboat speakers and you can use the gains to reduce the delivery to the dash speakers. Or get another amp for your tower speakers.

Is turning down the gains the same as adjusting the volume for those speakers?

That's not the definition of a gain but yes it will accomplish your goal. You would set it up like this. 4 channel amp to your interior speakers. Wire your dash speakers on channels 1+2 and the other 2 inboat speakers to channels 3+4. Tune your inboat speakers to your desired listening levels. By adjusting the gains you can ensure the amp doesn't deliver full power to your dash speakers, while at the same time letting the other two channels of the amp deliver full power to the other two speakers. Try turning your gains all the way down now on the channels the inboat speakers are wired to now. Notice that even at full volume on the source unit they play much quieter or not at all. Make sense?

Yes definitely get a separate amp and the WS420 you will be amazed how your speakers come alive and they can be adjusted separately.

My current amp does not have adjustable high pass, only adjustable low pass. Should I bridge the channels and just use it for a sub or can I work with this amp for inboats and my pro 60's?

That sounds kinda wierd, which amp make and model is it?

its a phoenix gold V754. Here are the specs

Ryval Series 4-Channel Class AB Car Amplifier
RMS Power Rating:
4 ohms: 75 watts x 4 chan.
2 ohms: 130 watts x 4 chan.
Bridged, 4 ohms: 250 watts x 2 chan.
Max power output: 500 watts x 2 chan.
LED power and protection indicators
Remote Monitoring Display (RMD) Port
4/3/2 channel operation
Speaker-level input
Preamp RCA outputs
Extruded aluminum heat sink
3 Position crossover configuration switch
Switchable high-pass filter (100 Hz, 12 dB/octave)
Variable low-pass filter (40-400 Hz, 12 dB/octave)
Frequency response: 20-20000 Hz
Efficiency: 100 dB
8-gauge power and ground leads recommended. Contact us for information regarding a discount on a select amplifier kit when purchased together.

Jeff, I have a new/never-used memphis amp for sale for cheap in the classifieds.

I have the Kicker ZXMRLC and it works great and can be had for ~$75: http://www.kicker.com/ZXMRLC

Other options could include buying 2 of the PAC LC-1 controls: http://www.earmarkcaraudio.com/Xcart...cat=280&page=1

You should be able to run 2 sets of RCA's to the amp so you could run 1 for input into the ZXMRLC and then it has 2 sets out which you would then put 1 set into the front channel rca's and the other into the rear channel .

Originally Posted by diamonddad

Jeff, I have a new/never-used memphis amp for sale for cheap in the classifieds.

That amp should work fine for inboat or tower speakers as well. Afterall you are already using it for your inboat speakers right?

Originally Posted by timmyb

I have the Kicker ZXMRLC and it works great and can be had for ~$75: http://www.kicker.com/ZXMRLC

Other options could include buying 2 of the PAC LC-1 controls: http://www.earmarkcaraudio.com/Xcart...cat=280&page=1

You should be able to run 2 sets of RCA's to the amp so you could run 1 for input into the ZXMRLC and then it has 2 sets out which you would then put 1 set into the front channel rca's and the other into the rear channel .

What do you think any of those options would accompish to satisfy his end goal? If he separates the 4 inboats speakers onto different channels he doesn't need any of that stuff to get to where he wants to be. If he doesn't separate the 4 speakers onto 2 difference channels those won't help him get to his goal anyways, all 4 speakers would still be tied together.

> "If he separates the 4 inboats speakers onto different channels he doesn't need any of that stuff to get to where he wants to be"

Why? Even with seperate AMPs for BOAT/TOWER, he will need a way to adjust them, right? How would he adjust without something like the 420 or the ZXMRLC?

His issue is the dash speakers blasting him out, too loud. If he has the dash speakers on a different channel of an amp than the other inboat speakers they can be adjusted differently and toned down. He can use the other amp brided to his tower speakers. You mean adjust volume?

In my X30 I can just adjust the fade on my head unit. The tower speakers are wired for the rear and the in boat speakers are wired for the front, so if I adjust the fade all the way to the rear it turns down the in boat speakers completely.

Originally Posted by 05mobiuslsv

What do you think any of those options would accompish to satisfy his end goal? If he separates the 4 inboats speakers onto different channels he doesn't need any of that stuff to get to where he wants to be. If he doesn't separate the 4 speakers onto 2 difference channels those won't help him get to his goal anyways, all 4 speakers would still be tied together.

Right now that is exactly how my boat is wired. I have a 4 channel amp that has the 4 inboats on the front two channels and the 2 pro 60's and the rear channels.

Well, he said he wanted a way to control the towers from the in-boats. Both of the solutions that I posted will give him a separate volume control for each. Isn't that a solution? So the 4 in-boats run off of 2 channels on the amp (1 set of RCA's and a volume switch) and the towers run off of the other 2 channels (another set of RCA's and a volume switch). What am I missing? I don't see anything that states that he wants to adjust the 1 dash speaker independently of everything else.

Why not use PAC LC1's to control the inboat channel, the tower channel and the sub channel when he gets it? Then he has independent control of each area of the system. The only thing that this doesn't do is allow him to adjust the 4 inboats front to rear. The only way to do that is to add another amp which he is going to ahve to do when he adds a sub. Maybe when he gets a sub he should buy another 4 channel amp. Then he can run the towers and a sub on one amp and use the other amp for inboats. In conjunction with PAC LC1's(or whatever they are called) he can adjust his front to rear inboats how he wants and have tower and inboat control.

He could do that as well. So many scenarios on what can be done with 1 addl amp. Go 5 channel amp for the cabin and sub too. I have a Kicker ZX700.5 running the cabin/sub and then an IX500.4 for the Pro 60's and then the ZXMRLC to control the tower/cabin independently and there is also a sub control on the 700.5 so I can control that volume as well.

Originally Posted by timmyb

Well, he said he wanted a way to control the towers from the in-boats. Both of the solutions that I posted will give him a separate volume control for each. Isn't that a solution? So the 4 in-boats run off of 2 channels on the amp (1 set of RCA's and a volume switch) and the towers run off of the other 2 channels (another set of RCA's and a volume switch). What am I missing? I don't see anything that states that he wants to adjust the 1 dash speaker independently of everything else.

Yeah nothing you said addressed his concern with the dash speakers being to loud, it wouldn't have fixed his issue.

Originally Posted by 05mobiuslsv

Yeah nothing you said addressed his concern with the dash speakers being to loud, it wouldn't have fixed his issue.

Actually it would have, he could turn down all of the cabin speakers.

I dont know why you think the WS420 wont work. As long as his interior boat speakers have an amp to them, the ws420 will work perfect! It has the capability of fading the tower and the boat separately. Copied directly from wet sounds web site.

" WS-420 - 4 Band Parametric Equalizer with 2 Zone Operation
The WS-420 Equalizer is a state of the art equalizer designed to provide amazing control and flexibility of your marine audio system. The WS-420 gives you independent control of your tower speakers as well as independent control of your in boat speakers. "

I have installed probably close to 100 WS420, everyone with the same complaint as first stated, including many of Malibu's and not 1 person has still had the complaint, they all have been very pleased!! In fact most people complain that their wife and kids dont like to be blasted out of the boat, it has solved the problem every time!.

If you have any question call wet sounds. 877-938-7757 and for Justin, Omar, or John they can explain to you everything you will need to know about it!

WS420 would definitely work, just a little more money than LC1's or the ZXMRLC but it has way more flexibility and a cool microphone!

Originally Posted by timmyb

Actually it would have, he could turn down all of the cabin speakers.

Hahahahaha hard to argue or reason with that kind of thinking.

Originally Posted by jaxfoiler

I dont know why you think the WS420 wont work. As long as his interior boat speakers have an amp to them, the ws420 will work perfect! It has the capability of fading the tower and the boat separately. Copied directly from wet sounds web site.

" WS-420 - 4 Band Parametric Equalizer with 2 Zone Operation
The WS-420 Equalizer is a state of the art equalizer designed to provide amazing control and flexibility of your marine audio system. The WS-420 gives you independent control of your tower speakers as well as independent control of your in boat speakers. "

I have installed probably close to 100 WS420, everyone with the same complaint as first stated, including many of Malibu's and not 1 person has still had the complaint, they all have been very pleased!! In fact most people complain that their wife and kids dont like to be blasted out of the boat, it has solved the problem every time!.

If you have any question call wet sounds. 877-938-7757 and for Justin, Omar, or John they can explain to you everything you will need to know about it!

If you are talking to me I never said that you couldn't fade your way out of the situation but he doesn't need a ws 420 to do that. We are talking about totally different approaches here. You can compromise the sound of all the interior speakers by turning them al down sure. I'm out this discussion tires me.

Mount them on the transom.

wow this really got heated haha.

I would like to be able to control the zones separately like many of you are stating with either the PAC or the ws 420. However, If I did not want to turn down the volume and just adjust the front speakers, from what I am understanding, the ws 420 wont help me. I NEED and will be purchasing a new amp to correctly power the pro 60's and I would like to add a sub. My problem now is that with my current amp I have no adjustable settings for high pass. If I am understanding correctly, I still wont be able to tone down the speakers because of this correct?

For the new amp, I would like it to have the ability to properly power my pro 60's as well as a sub. Any suggestions? Also is there an amp out there that will let me power 4 quality tower speakers and a sub? Thanks for all the input.

Jeff

Maybe I am wrong here, But I dont see what your trying to accomplish with what your saying. The overall goal is the same thing, Make your tower louder while not blasting the driver/observer? Correct?....Yes you need to have the pro 60 powered correctly to wet sounds specs. If they are underpowered the are not going to sound correct. By using a ws420 you are not compromising your sound quality!? I think since you are new to the Wet Sounds, contact them directly and they are always glad to help. Worst thing you can have is a system that is good quality but sounds horrible..

you need a bridged syn4 and ws420 if you do a sub.

if you add to the tower get an additional amp (syn2 or syn4)

Syn 6?
http://www.wetsounds.com/pages/produ...iguration.html

I think a lot of these guys posting don't realize that Jeff is on a budget and I doubt he wants to go out and drop $500+ on an amp.

Here is what I would do on a budget utalizing just the one amp you have now for the time being. Buy 2 PACLC1's or an equavalent so you can control both your inboats(all together) and the tower speakers. Then when you want to play your towers loud you can turn down your interiors so you aren't blasting the music off your windshield. Is it ideal? no. But should solve your problem temporarily until you buy a sub and another amp.

Then when you decide to drop some more $ on a sub and another amp get an amp that can run the Tower and sub. This may be in the form of a really high powered 4 channel or a good 3/5 channel amp. If you can find a solid 5 channel amp that can get you 300-500 to a sub and 150+ watts to each Pro 60 you will have a very nice, inexpensive setup. You could also use the 5 channel amp to run the 4 interiors and a sub and bridge your current PG amp bridged to the towers. With this setup you can fade front to rear on your interiors to your liking, adjust the gain of the towers independently of the rest of the system and you could use the second LC1 you already have to adjust the sub gain if the amp doesn't already have a sub gain knob.

Brett- you seem to be spot on with what I am looking for! So basically if I buy two LC1's or whatever they are called or a ws 420, I can accomplish control of both zones correct?

or a clarion eqs-746 (use fader knob on EQ to fade between zones)

here is a fairly inexpensive 5 channel amp that could run either your 4 interiors and your sub or your towers(bridged) and a sub. It is probably overrated but it shoudl have plenty of power.

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...Xi60.4-1K.html

Man so many different ways to accomplish what he wants. If I understand him he wants to control the towers independantly from the boat. That is it.


First the cds will always play louder it seems than the 3.5mm on any head unit I have. There are several arguments on why but it is a fact for some reason.


Cheapest way to do it with gear you have. Pac LC 1 control. Add that to the rca input on the channels of the amp powering the cabins and it will allow you to lower the volume of the cabins when u want the towers cranking. It's simple cheap and wont effect sound quality.

Next best thing. Wetsounds 420. Little more adjustability at you fingertips. Will allow you to adjust volume of the towers independntly from cabins with amp you have.



towern to more expensive. If u ask me I like having all my boat/cabin stuff on a swpwrate amp than my towers. Just preference. Since you are thinking of upgrading may I suggest this. The reason I like this is because I have each amp wired to an acc switch so that I can run one or the other or both. I have young kids and prefer to run just towers while riding. This way I can hear music andthere little ears don't get blasted out. You can still here music fine in the boat with just towers running. Then when its just the crew or adults I flip the second switch and on comes the cabin amp with the sub and cabins and now we can rock out even more inside. I run a Pac LC1 on my cabin amp to adjust volume so its not blaring while the towers are turned up.

I run a kicker zx 700.5 for my cabin amp.
And a kicker zx 450.2 for my towers
The reason I chose a 5 channel amp is that I get 2 amps essentially in one like the hifonics mentioned above. It gives you a class ab to run the cabin speakers and a seperate class d for a sub channel all in one. Giving u maximum adjustability right out of the box and saves space bynot having to add a whole nother amp.




I think NUBU is trying to allow Jeff to adjust just the 2 dash speakers indepedantly than even the rest of the cabins. That will require way more work.
I think jeff just wants a way just to adjust the boat speakers seperate from the towers.


I apologize ahead of time for typos. Am on a cell

Originally Posted by xstarrider

Man so many different ways to accomplish what he wants. If I understand him he wants to control the towers independantly from the boat. That is it.


First the cds will always play louder it seems than the 3.5mm on any head unit I have. There are several arguments on why but it is a fact for some reason.


Cheapest way to do it with gear you have. Pac LC 1 control. Add that to the rca input on the channels of the amp powering the cabins and it will allow you to lower the volume of the cabins when u want the towers cranking. It's simple cheap and wont effect sound quality.

Next best thing. Wetsounds 420. Little more adjustability at you fingertips. Will allow you to adjust volume of the towers independntly from cabins with amp you have.



towern to more expensive. If u ask me I like having all my boat/cabin stuff on a swpwrate amp than my towers. Just preference. Since you are thinking of upgrading may I suggest this. The reason I like this is because I have each amp wired to an acc switch so that I can run one or the other or both. I have young kids and prefer to run just towers while riding. This way I can hear music andthere little ears don't get blasted out. You can still here music fine in the boat with just towers running. Then when its just the crew or adults I flip the second switch and on comes the cabin amp with the sub and cabins and now we can rock out even more inside. I run a Pac LC1 on my cabin amp to adjust volume so its not blaring while the towers are turned up.

I run a kicker zx 700.5 for my cabin amp.
And a kicker zx 450.2 for my towers
The reason I chose a 5 channel amp is that I get 2 amps essentially in one like the hifonics mentioned above. It gives you a class ab to run the cabin speakers and a seperate class d for a sub channel all in one. Giving u maximum adjustability right out of the box and saves space bynot having to add a whole nother amp.




I think NUBU is trying to allow Jeff to adjust just the 2 dash speakers indepedantly than even the rest of the cabins. That will require way more work.
I think jeff just wants a way just to adjust the boat speakers seperate from the towers.


I apologize ahead of time for typos. Am on a cell

Doing something the right way isn't always the easiest way now is it.... The way I desribed would solve the OP's original post and question by letting him tune the two sets of in boat speakers independently, as well as give the tower speakers the power they deserve instead of underpowering them like he is currently doing. The way I describe will give the OP dynamic headroom which every GOOD sounding system has.

thanks for the great infor swatguy and NUBU. Ultimately I need a new amp to power a sub so I will end up getting a 5 channel to get the 2 amps in 1 package like you are saying. Then, I will probably hook up the in boats and the sub to the new amp since the high pass on my old amp is not adjustable(which blows). With my pro 60's bridged on my old amp they will be getting 250 watts rms to each! There's the good head room NUBU is talking about. And now with the cabins each being on there own channel, I will be able to independently tune them like NUBU is saying and I will probably add a LC 1 to control the cabin zone so I can turn down the cabins while lots of people are in the boat (not in a party situation) so they can talk while the rider will still get some tunes!

Again thanks for all the info. This is why WW is awesome!

Lets talk subs now! 10"? 12"? side fire? Down fire? I just want some decent bass for the system. In no way do i want a ton of bass but something that matches well with my system. Any suggestions?

Jeff

I would do a ported 10" or a sealed 12", they will require about the same size box. If space is a real issue you may have to do a sealed 10". Whatever you do put it under the dash and either fire it into thee cabin or side fire it into the side of the hull. I wouldn't down fire, you probably don't have room to do it right.