Copes scaling down some more

The Fairfield/Cordelia location still has a lot full of boats

Dont know what this really means for the Copes Rocklin Store, but a realtor walked into my granite countertops store today and handed us a flyer for the sale of their building.

hey jeff who was the sale guy that you got your boat from i use to sell session. I love that boat. you got and si

i heard from a birdie that copes filed chapter 11 bankruptcy this week

I heard that was for Washington state only.

i heard from some of the GE Finance guys that copes is totally done. i'm talking all of the stores. november 1st they were given their last paychecks and GE along with the other 3 flooring companies would be picking up all their boats. i know they had 8 million in just Chaperel deckboats. in this industry you can't let yourself get too big of a head and think its goign to be good forever.

I feel sorry for most of the employees, but I am kind of glad it happened to the Copes. They are A**holes.

The two vendors I know who sell them equipment have had them on cash deals only for months....... and now their just cut off altogether...... in any state.

Ryan.....

I know you are in the industry by means of your family, but putting info on the web that is both 1) unfounded, and 2) wrong, is not good. If in fact a GE Finance rep gave you that info, I am sure it was not so you could post it on the internet for all the world to see.

To clarify: I am in contact with some Cope staff. They are still going to work, and stores are still open for business.

And 8 million in Chapperel Deckboats would be somewhere north of 175 units at wholesale....I think your math is off by a zero or two.

I have no affiliation with Cope, in fact I may have a bit of a grudge against them from years past. But the fact of the matter is that some good people are going to lose their jobs, people who have invested a lot of time and effort into this industry to make it what it is today. So while some of you snicker because Bob or Frank are taking a hit, take a minute and think of your buds who started out in the Pro Shops, or the good guys they have had over the years selling boats...these are the guys who are losing their jobs through no fault of their own.

Now that it looks like Copes is gone... I remember when my ex and I went in together on a 225 Maristar. One of their managers actually called her, looking for a date after we took delivery. I always thought that was really sharty but maybe there was more to the situation then I knew. Either way, it sucks to see so many places going down. Whoever can ride this out will do well when things finally turn around.

I can think of a couple guys who woulda' done that....yikes.

Well time is running out now. What store is next for them. And yes the store that stay in will be storng

what the news guys any thing new

I'm pretty sure that the Renton service center is closed down. A friend of mine about three weeks ago called me in a panic because she got a call from Renton where her boat was being held and scheduled for winterization. They told her she had one day to pick up her boat with no work done to it because they were packing up, locking the gates, and didn't know when they would be opened again.

It's a little late now but if anyone in WA hasn't winterized yet, Gary Estes @ ESI in Issaquah got her in right away and took care of her boat.

Good luck MC Seattle, be smart, work hard.

They filed the big B.

Is Gary at Eastside Services? The owner, Doug is one of my dad's old friends and is very fair with his prices and gets people in and out quick.

I have to beg to differ with you Meathead about Ryan sounding the alarm about Copes. I think he indeed should post the information. People are buying new boats now and an unwitting buying might get tangled up in a sale with a company going out of business and lose their down payment or become embroiled in a legal battle.

Copes lost my business by doing in my opinion was substandard work on my Mastercraft which cost me a good portion of my big summer vacation which I spent working on it to fix their shoddy work.

Good riddance in my opinion.

That's all well and good, sound off on Cope's at will...as many have done already. My point is that as a member of the Industry, discussions between his dealership and commercial credit carriers like GE are generally not for public disclosure. And his numbers are flat wrong. He needs to be careful about coming on the internet and spouting off "inside info" like that....it may hurt HIS dealership somewhere down the road.

Agreed Meathead. The internet has brought about a lot more transparency and checks and balances due to the sharing of information. There is definitely some netiquette which will take time to establish.

In all honesty it could have been kept very broad with a still informative delivery.

I use to have vacaville service my boat. Did not like the way the guy lie to me about all of the stuff that was done on my boat i now take it to the nautique dealership in fairfield. They rock.And they are all about makeing me happy. Well look them up and give them a call they will work on anything

The Olympic boat store in Santa Clara closed also. Just drove by it today on 101 and saw a lease sign up and the store shuttered, all the boats are gone.

Here's some info on Cope's bankruptcy filing on October 31st:

http://www.trollerbk.com/portal/?module=intro&c=616E236F-940B-6432-61AC1C04804A4C28&showcase=1


Discussion about Cope's bankruptcy on Malibucrew:

http://www.themalibucrew.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=17889

Holy crap, they don't mince words over there at the malibu site.

The one thing that I can for sure agree with from the Malibu Crew site is that Austin of the Santa Clara store is a stand up dude who I would do business with where ever he was. A guy who seems to care about the folks he is doing business with. (don't know him personally, but would say I know him professionally)

Folks seem to enjoy posting a lot of negative things, just human nature I guess, I'm one that thinks it is only right to post the good and the bad.

True.

I had nothing but good experiences with the Rancho store. Even the salesman that I didn't buy a boat from were cool to me.

Agreed Morgan. Its a bummer that good people are getting hurt in this situation as well. I would hope that if anything did happen Austin would be offered a job elsewhere immediately. The dude is a great ambassador for the sport and the shop he works for. I would gladly spend more money through him than buying something online knowing I am getting taken care of even after the sale....every time.

it would be easy to post the good, but I have NEVER had a good experience there, kinda disappointing really. Now other places, I have had some good experiences. The folks out in Tracey that sell supreme, super nice!

I would like to say that I have never had a bad experience with a Cope or Ultimate pro shop. They have over and over again gone above and beyond to help out with warranty stuff. They have provided loaners when we didn't even buy the broken item from them. Jeff Fitzgerald (now a chef in Los Gatos) was awesome at Cope's in Santa Clara. Austin is equally awesome, always going the extra mile to help out. Ant Bug in Fairfield is also a great guy. I wish all of these guys well. It will no doubt be getting even tougher in this industry.

Now service is another story. My mother taught me,"If you can't say something nice......"

..... then say it anyway? LOL! I've heard many guys compliment the pro shop guys and some of the other employees. I've just heard and read that many, many Cope/UWS customers have been disappointed by the lack of quality service and warranty support. I think that started at the top with Bob and Frank and permeated most of the corporation.

The problem is they got too big to take care of ALL of their customers!!

"The problem is they got too big to take care of ALL of their customers!!"

It all depends what you're committed to. Getting big in itself does not make it hard to take care of your customers. There should be economies of scale with getting bigger, which should make it more cost effective to take good care of their customers. Like I said it really comes down to the priorities of the business and being committed to servicing your customers well.

No such thing as too big for customers, they focused on sales and not service. HUGE mistake, many service customers end up being repeat buyers, we had a similar situation with a different dealer here in MN.

Said dealer here in MN told my father in law that his boat "was to old, we don't work on them anymore"! My father in law dropped the boat off at our dealer (we have never worked on outboards) to get fixed, it was a simple throttle cable, I fixed in on my lunch hour, I find it funny that said dealer would not fix his boat for money, yet 6 months later they cut 50% of their retail locations. Guess there's more to a dealership than just sales.

You have to realize Cope and UWS were putting 700 Malibu and Mastercraft boats per year in their territories.Not to mention probably 400 more sterndrive Four Winns, Chapparals and other family boats and 4-500 more fishing boats.That's 1500 boats annually and over say a 10 year span (that's only a 1998 model not "too old")that's 15000 boats.

I'm not sure where you got those numbers. That seems high, even if you include all their locations and WA. Also, I don't think they had all those locations and lines for 10 years, so 15,000 would be high too. Whatever the number, they seemed to have more than their share of disgruntled customers in service and warranty. I don't think high volume is an excuse. Besides, I think Bob and Frank had that poor after-the-sale attitude when they only had a couple of stores. I remember hearing complaints 15 years ago.

They are also selling some wakeboards on eBay. $200 (appx + or - $20) for a 2008 CWB Transcend.

I think Bob and Frank have multiple issues, don't get me wrong. Just wanted to point out the sizable number of boats they sold.

By the way the Tahoe Copes was closed last week as well as the Rancho UWS.

They have multiple issues? Did you mean psychological?

Right now, financial, legal and potentially psycological I guess.

Okay, so where should I take my 05 BU for service now that Ultimate in Rohnert Park is closed. They referred me to Vacaville but from what I'm reading that may not be a great choice. BTY, my service experience at Ultimate wasn't so bad, just a lot of turnover with staff. I'd like to establish a relationship with a dealer/service center I can depend on. Any help appreciated.

Les...Give a call to Marine Unlimited...ask for Brant. 707-585-9717.

Very good shop, and Brant knows wake boats. He doesn't sell them, but he is very good at what he does.

Tell him Mr. Aluminum sent you...he'll know.

Thanks meathead, will do.

Les,
You can also try Monk marine in Petaluma. He's honest and does the job right the first time. If you go by there tell him Walt sent you.

PS,
Don't bother calling him. He works by himself and rarely answers the phone.

So with UW Rancho gone and it looking like Copes is going too...does anyone have any idea (in the sacramento area)on where I can get my boat warranty crap done or who is going to pick up Malibu if Copes does eat it?

Sit tight it will eventually straighten up, the BK makes it a longer process but either way there will be someone with Malibu to help. I'll tell you this though, there's gonna be alot of Sh*#@ going into a small bag for a few seasons.

I take my boat to Fairfield. To claifornia marine sports. They will work on any thing. I know they will work on malibu,mastercraft,nautiques.
Call there and ask for Richard he will help you out. I will not let just any one work on my boat. But them. my boat is insaid all time and keep just like i would like it when i pick it up

FYI, I took my BU to Brant at Marine Unlimited. They did the 400 hour service, winterized, checked everything out including the trailer and had it back to me the same day. Great service, nice shop, and very free with information. Funny thing, although I'd had my plugs changed before (at least I had paid for it before) they pulled the original equipment plugs out and gave them to me!! Still had factory paint and old plug numbers, so no doubt about it. No wonder it was running a little rough. Caveat Emptor.

Was that UWS that did your spark plugs for you on your previous services?

San Jose UWS went down this week.

Any one know what up with the warehouse in vacaville and what up with the fairfield store. I relly hope that all of you are not going to go out and try bying a boat from them know. The big thing is what will happen with uws as a hole. let me know what up guys

Well, I understand that the last 4 islands of cope world will be Reno,Rocklin,Santa Clara and they are saying Fairfied/Vacaville. They have already sub leased the Rio Linda service center property and have to be out soon.They will have to house all of their inventory somewhere while they deal with chapter 11 so it stands to reason Vacaville will be around for a little while, we'll see about Fairfield. The Copes are not nessecarily driving the bus, someone else may be making the decisions .

What's going on with UWS in Sparks Nevada ?

Do you think Cope did all this himself or did the MC and BU reps have a little/alot to do with it?

They were just a big machine that couldn't shut it'self down fast enough, just as an example the Rancho store sold 32 boats in the month of June of 2007, between then and their closing last week they sold a total of 37 boats, it went south fast for the marine industry. Mastercraft forced them to create the Ultimate Watersports Corporations because they forbid Cope's to sell Malibu. I don't think the reps are culpable much though, there may have been some arrogance that got them in some hot water but the economy is the main culprit, man Circut city-Mervyns- 30 plus % of the marine dealers maybe even GM it's UGLY.

That's a crazy drop in sales! No wonder they have issues. 30% of marine dealers? That's crazy too. I wonder how many car dealers? It is really ugly out there! GM? Oh, the new Democratic House and Congress won't let them go BK, afterall, they are the "Heartbeat of America" Now isn't that scary?

Great time to be a buyer for sure.

I heard they went chapter 7 today, Nor Cal is in for an awakaning. When the biggest inboard dealer, probably in the world, dealer goes down, the service void in and of itself, won't be filled, in this economy, for several years.

any word weather livermore UWS is still around?

Livermore is closed.

Livermore is closed? I thought I saw boats there recently. Chapter 11 is re-organization. Chapter 7 is liquidation. They were in 11. Are you guys saying that the BK Court recently did not approve their re-organization and they were forced into Chapter 7, Liquidation?

Well the news is that all uw and copes are closeing due to chapter 7 as of yester day. and i know that bob cope is out of the pic to well We all know what happen when you dont do good service. well all i have to say is by by copes

TrollerBK shows Marine Retail Management, INC BK'ed on 11/24/08.

http://www.trollerbk.com/portal/?module=intro&c=616E22E3-F0BA-104B-EF0405DC923A7DBD&showcase=1

I couldn't find anything in PACER for any of the entities listed.

Nov-20-2008, Certificate of Service Filed by STEPHEN R HARRIS on behalf of CALIFORNIA WATER SPORTS, LLC, COPE & MCPHETRES MARINE OF WASHINGTON I, COPE & MCPHETRES MARINE, INC., COPE & MCPHETRES, INC., MARINE RETAIL MANAGEMENT, INC., TAHOE CITY SPORTS CENTER, LLC, ULTIMATE WATER SPORTS OF LIVERMORE, LLC, ULTIMATE WATER SPORTS, LLC (Related document(s)25 Notice filed by Debtor MARINE RETAIL MANAGEMENT, INC.) (HARRIS, STEPHEN) (Entered: 11/20/2008)

Well just for all of you guys that live in vacaville or fairfield ultimate water sports in Fairfield is closed out of bis if you need service on your boat call 707-864-4007

hope the guys can help you out they are killer for service

We know they filled Chapter 11 on November 24th. The word was that in mid December they were going back to the BK Court. Sounds like their plan of going down to 3-5 stores and staying in business didn't get approved. I figured they would squeeze their way out of it somehow. I guess Long Tooth and 4x4 must have the inside scoop. It sounds like Copes are completely done. I'm sure there are lots of guys here ready to party knowing that Bob and Frank may finally be going down in flames!!

Mj i am in the boat biz and use to work for them. so as far as me haveing insaid i do i have lots of rep and outher that let me know what going down and well today it all went down. They have gards at all the stores and they have lock up all of the stores. filll free to ask me what you would like to know i woul d be happy to help you out

They filed 11 on 10/31/08. Certificate of service on 11/20, appointment of representatives as late as 11/24. Court can end them to 7 for fraud. I wonder if that is the case?

When you guys make comments about throwing a party, do you EVER stop and think about the good employees and their families that just got let go a week before Christmas??

Obviously not.

The stores are still open. Well Rocklin, Fairfield, and Santa Clara.

We are having a HUGE blowout sale on all product. I know cause I STILL work there.

And wakeking, the stores are not locked up with guards. I'd love to know who gave you your info?

Anyone who wants great deals on gear should come in soon. Things could end fast.

Yo Ant, just wanted to drop a line and let you know that I'll be thinking about you and Liz. Like she said earlier on the board, it all works itself out in the end. I'll be sending positive vibes your way!!! Hope you guys and the rugrat are doing as well as possible!

Hi Steve

Thanks for the kind words. I was just telling Anthony that we should come down there sometime for a visit. The rugrat is great - 13 months old already and growing fast.

^^^^^^
Elizabeth:

While it's true that many good folks have or will lose their jobs due to the BK....that number is dwarfed by the number of equally good employees that the Cope machine has screwed over in the last 20 years.

So I guess I personally feel that it kinda balances out on the Karma scale.

We won't even add into the equation the thousands of customers who have received less than stellar service from them, as well.

Been keeping track of all of this (and am pretty shocked). I run a service department, and we'd like to help out you guys who lost your regular service center. Yeah, it says "Gone Fishin", but I'm a tow-boat guy at heart and by training. Give me a call, we're winterizing right now!

Mike Rowe
707-678-1600
www.gfmarine.com

I agree with Mikelr, I feel for the people that get hurt the most for what is going on with all of the large boat dealership's, Personally I was with another one of the big shops that closed down this year with no notice other than you have one week left to finish up all of the work here in the shop. I since have opened my own shop here in Rancho with a couple of partners and If you have s need for any winter service or custom work feel free to get ahold of us at Loud Liquid. We are full Indmar and Volvo and Merc trained. With the temps the last few nights being in the hi 20's and it only takes a week to crack a block. And most insurance companies will not cover a cracked block that is not winterized.

Mike Nardo
916-851-0817
Loud Liquid Service Center

Just got this via email. Sounds pretty final and from the horse's mouth, so to speak.

Califronia Marine Sports In Fairfield had some of the best deals on boats and board i have seen yet. They do all my service and they are there to stay.


Califronia marine sports Califronia marinesports
101-central way 1240 kekellogg st
707-864-4007 suisun city 707-864-2500

full service and much more for all your boat needs

i would say so. too bad but i heard lots of bad things about cope and especially when they tried to sell me a refurbished prop that someone forgot to pick up for 200 bucks lol and thought that was a deal when you can get all kinds of props for 100 bucks new I would have even payed 150 for the refurbed one but 200 forget it. The guys at ultimate in livermore really treated me well and for buying a budget boat they did not treat me like a budget customer at all. Sad so many people will loose there jobs

Surfdad, did you make that up on Publisher or Paint Shop? Lizzy, I don't think anyone on here is throwing a party that employees and people are losing their jobs. That has been covered here previously. If you noticed, I stated that lots of people are probably happy Bob and Frank are going down and that is because many believe they received poor warranty and service because that was Bob and Frank's corporate philosophy. Hope you, Ant and the other employees are doing ok.

so wait are all the stores going out of bussiness or what?

Ding Dong the Copes are dead, the big bad copes are dead. I've said it before, careful what you wish for.The impact on the entire industry will be felt for the next few years. New dealers will come in all bright eyed and be unable to make it.

Service customers will be out in the cold,everyone will Valiantly try and pick up the slack (see the above posts) and take care of people but the shear number of cope customers is MASSIVE. As I've posted before they were selling 1200-1500 boats per year, so take away the 150 in Washington, call it 1200 thats almost 10,000 boat customers in the last 8 years in Nor Cal.

That is the main culprit to the animosity toward the company, you can't reasonably handle that quantity of customers. Now don't get me wrong I have NO reason to stand up for them as anyone who knows me can attest,but the people who worked for them tried hard and they are all ( like 150 of them in the last 6 mos) out in the cold, the industry is in shambles and jobs are impossible to find.

Now the short sided and small picture people will say it's great because every thing will be cheap. To them I say Merry Christmas. To the rest of you We all need your prayers!

Mike Nardo, are you involved in any way with Loud Liquid the tower manufacturer?