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Old     (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       11-22-2017, 9:58 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
Are we talking about gun control or 9/11?

p.s. correct spelling of the word genius... kinda important when you want to use it sarcastically to insult someone's intelligence.
It was done on purpose 👍🏻
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       11-22-2017, 12:33 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ord27 View Post
I think that most believe that even if you make it more difficult for a good guy to get a gun, the bad guy will always find one.
and With so many guns out there, getting rid of them is impossible
So what, do nothing? The over supply of guns isn't going to be solved in a short time frame but you have to start moving in the right direction. Ausy had a buy back scheme which was very successful. NZ has a law that you have to keep certain class of weapons at a gun range, you can't keep them at home. There are lots of smart people who can come up with creative solutions if the collective will allows it. Sadly not going to happen.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       11-22-2017, 12:37 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by xstarrider View Post
So single digit casualties (including the wounded ) are now considered “mass shootings”? That’s a pretty low standard . Those happen almost weekly in Chicago alone .


You left out Sydney Seige ,Dec 14 3 dead 4 wounded



You also neglected to mention the mass carnage caused by a terrorist driving a vehicle in 2017 that was comitted. 6 dead 30 wounded. Further proving if people want to kill they will kill, Maybe Australia should restrict the size of vehicles people are able to buy .
I think anything over 3 is classed a mass shooting, which is petty dumb IMO. One happens everyday in the US fyi.

No doubt if people are motivated to kill they will find a way so 100% i agree gun control is only part of the issue but to say the easy access to guns has no effect of the homicide and suicide rate just isn't true.
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       11-22-2017, 12:46 PM Reply   
Quote:
I think that most believe that even if you make it more difficult for a good guy to get a gun, the bad guy will always find one.
and
With so many guns out there, getting rid of them is impossible

From the gun owners that I know, the feeling is that the progressive left will always want to nibble at the issue until their right to own ANY gun is taken away.

Therefore , they oppose almost ALL gun regulation
I think this is mostly accurate. I don't think its the intent of progressives to eventually take all guns away, but it may be that fear that the NRA has been selling for a long time. Its wearing thin with almost weekly tragedies as evidenced by the fedupness with the "moment of silence" and "Thoughts and Prayers" crapola. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.
I have read that for it to be a "mass shooting" it requires 4 or more deaths.
Old     (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       11-22-2017, 1:01 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by plhorn View Post
I love your use of the word "facts". so let me explain why there wasn't a previous mass shooting before that the port arthur shooting and the ban on guns. The explanation is that you don't know what your talking about and therewere plenty of mass shootings before that event. Here's a list:

Hoddle Street massacre Clifton Hill, Victoria 7 dead
Queen Street massacre 8 December 1987 8 dead
Surry Hills shootings 30 August 1990 5 dead 7 injured
Strathfield massacre 17 August 1991 7 dead
Central Coast massacre 27 October 1992 6 dead
1993 Cangai siege March 1993 5 dead

I removed all the mass shooting that only involved family members or gang fights. There are alot of those too.

But I'm sure that gun control has nothing to do with the FACT that there haven't been any more mass shootings in Australia but there seems to be one a week here.
So single digit casualties (including the wounded ) are now considered “mass shootings”? That’s a pretty low standard . Those happen almost weekly in Chicago alone .

You left out Sydney Seige Dec 2014. A MASS SHOOOTING after the law 3 dead 4 wounded by a gunman on a shooting spree .





Your Cangai reference involves a guy who went on a 9 day killing spree (NOT A Mass Shooting )

Central Coast massacre details (NOT a Mass shooting )
The shootings started at 9:12 p.m. at the Terrigal apartment shared by Kerry Gannon and her 18-year-old sister Lisa Gannon, who was pregnant. Both were shot dead and their bodies were discovered inside the apartment. Their father, Thomas Gannon, 43, who had been visiting for a few days, was found dead in the street. 22-year-old Christopher Gall, a friend of the sisters, was severely injured, suffering a gunshot wound to the face.[3]

Baker then drove to the resort of Bateau Bay, where he arrived about ten minutes later, and shot dead his 27-year-old son David.[2] His body was discovered in the back yard of the home he shared with his wife and baby.[3]

Baker then went to a house in Wyong, 15 kilometres north of Bateau Bay. Arriving there shortly before 10 p.m., he shot dead Ross Smith, 35, and critically injured Leslie Read, 25, at the home they shared. Read died two hours later in hospital. Smith and Baker had had a confrontation about two years prior, over a business deal gone sour.[3]

Lisa Gannon was due to give birth to her child in December. Efforts to save her baby failed.[3]

At 11.00 p.m., Baker walked into a police station, surrendered, and handed over a 12 gauge pump-action shotgun. Baker was charged with six counts of murder and one count of attempted murder.[3]



Strathfield massacre started by the shooter stabbing two girls in the middle of the mall with a knife and killing them ( then pulled out a rifle ).


Queen street was a calculated attack against a single person that went haywire and the shooter panicked ( similar to a botched bank robbery) WASN’T A MASS SHOOTING




So how many “mass shootings” actually occurred ???????

You also neglected to mention the mass carnage caused by a terrorist driving a vehicle in 2017 that was comitted. 6 dead 30 wounded. Also missing are the massacres by arson . Further proving if people want to kill they will kill.

Last edited by xstarrider; 11-22-2017 at 1:07 PM.
Old     (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       11-22-2017, 1:42 PM Reply   
So if I am counting correctly

Hoddle Street massacre is the only actual mass shooting/ murder pre gun ban .
Strathfield is a 50/50 could be argued either way , sure mass killing , but gun related only.......no


And there is one mass shooting post ban . Sydney Seige (Same amount of people injured by gunfire in Hoddle)


Only in addition you also have a mass killing by vehicle.


Seems like post ban is even more dangerous ��

Last edited by xstarrider; 11-22-2017 at 1:52 PM.
Old     (onlyinboards)      Join Date: Oct 2014       11-22-2017, 2:41 PM Reply   
What is wrong with looking at is as gun deaths per capita?
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       11-22-2017, 2:45 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlyinboards View Post
What is wrong with looking at is as gun deaths per capita?
I think the argument is that suicides and accidental shootings are just darwin at work. Meh, who cares.
Old     (onlyinboards)      Join Date: Oct 2014       11-22-2017, 3:12 PM Reply   
if you break out the numbers to homicides per capita, it's still not looking good for the US. I guess it just baffles me that pro-gun NRA folks won't even recognize there is a problem.

For the record, i do not hunt but most of my friends have guns. i am not for taking guns away from people but i can at least recognize there is a problem in this country and the number of guns here has some causation. The NRA and their blanket anti-any-gun-law attitude is something that i do not understand.
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       11-22-2017, 5:31 PM Reply   
Not only is trump campaigning for Roy Moore, he is lying about the qualifications of the opponent to pimp Moore. Fact check... Not Faux news....from Fox news. So the question is, how low can he go?
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/11/22...in-prison.html
Old     (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       11-22-2017, 7:19 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlyinboards View Post
if you break out the numbers to homicides per capita, it's still not looking good for the US. I guess it just baffles me that pro-gun NRA folks won't even recognize there is a problem.

For the record, i do not hunt but most of my friends have guns. i am not for taking guns away from people but i can at least recognize there is a problem in this country and the number of guns here has some causation. The NRA and their blanket anti-any-gun-law attitude is something that i do not understand.
Oh I think both sides recognize there is definitely a gun related violence problem. I myself 100% believe that. The difference between sides is the left blames the guns, and the right blames the people and society. . The right is always calling for the strict enforcement of gun laws on the books. Why should we add more laws and restrictions if the courts and justice system won’t enforce the ones already at their disposal? Why not ip the penalties and make possessing illegal firearms a very high crime ? After all illegally obtained weapons account for 95-98% of gun crimes.

Last edited by xstarrider; 11-22-2017 at 7:25 PM.
Old     (plhorn)      Join Date: Dec 2005       11-23-2017, 12:43 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by xstarrider View Post
Oh I think both sides recognize there is definitely a gun related violence problem. I myself 100% believe that. The difference between sides is the left blames the guns, and the right blames the people and society. . The right is always calling for the strict enforcement of gun laws on the books. Why should we add more laws and restrictions if the courts and justice system won’t enforce the ones already at their disposal? Why not ip the penalties and make possessing illegal firearms a very high crime ? After all illegally obtained weapons account for 95-98% of gun crimes.
The problem is that the current administration is lowering the enforcement of the laws that are on the books. Trump made it easier for mentally unstable people to get guns. who is for this? The NRA is.

illegally obtained weapons do not account for the mass murder psychos.

The NRA has made it illegal to even fund a study to see what types of gun laws will work.

All I'm hearing from the Right is "Lets do nothing and see if it gets better" The right says that it is not a gun issue its a mental health issue, then they cut funding for mental health.

We continue to do nothing and its a safe bet that another group of kids will be killed in the next 6 months, and all we are offered as a solution is thoughts and prayers.
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       11-23-2017, 11:35 AM Reply   
How about something we should all be able to agree on (unless you own Comcast): net neutrality

http://beta.latimes.com/opinion/op-e...122-story.html

This is a big deal.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       11-23-2017, 12:42 PM Reply   
Yes it's a big deal, losing net neutrality would be a massive step backwards
Old     (wakeslash)      Join Date: Sep 2017       11-23-2017, 1:35 PM Reply   
Yep we are all screwed we need net neutrality agree with everyone on here.
Old     (onlyinboards)      Join Date: Oct 2014       11-23-2017, 6:35 PM Reply   
Very big deal. Not many things would get me out protesting, but this would be one. Just a massive BS money grab and another way to punish the small guy and make it easier for corporations to push out any competition.
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       11-27-2017, 12:03 PM Reply   
Net neutrality action:
1. On a computer (not your phone*) go to: www.fcc.gov/ecfs/filings/express
2. Enter (under "Proceeding") the numbers 17-108 and select from the dropdown menu.
3. Fill out your personal information as required.
4. In comments, write (and whatever else you'd like to add): "I support Title 2 oversight of ISPs. I also support net neutrality."
*Fill in the form carefully; they've made it less friendly and impossible (on purpose) to fill in by phone.
Do it now. Copy & Paste and Pass it on.
Old     (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       11-27-2017, 12:39 PM Reply   
Just more ways Trump is trying to make him and his buddies richer. SMH....
Old     (racer808)      Join Date: Jan 2013       11-27-2017, 1:11 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by psudy View Post
Just more ways Trump is trying to make him and his buddies richer. SMH....
You can't be serious. The Obozo admin was pushing for net neutrality when he was in office. The left was all about it when they thought they'd be able to control the messaging with it in place. But now the faux rage cause "their guy" isn't in power. This isn't a left or right issue & the sooner people get past that the better off we'll all be.
Old     (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       11-27-2017, 1:51 PM Reply   
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.865e7e0cbe41
Old     (plhorn)      Join Date: Dec 2005       11-27-2017, 2:24 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by racer808 View Post
You can't be serious. The Obozo admin was pushing for net neutrality when he was in office. The left was all about it when they thought they'd be able to control the messaging with it in place. But now the faux rage cause "their guy" isn't in power. This isn't a left or right issue & the sooner people get past that the better off we'll all be.
Yes, the obama admin put in place the rules for net neutrality, so we agree there. The trump admin put in place the guy who is trying to get rid of net neutrality. So it kinda is a left right issue. Look at who is for it and aganst it in congress, their is a distnct pattern on only republicans being in favor of removing the net neutrality rules.
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       11-27-2017, 2:40 PM Reply   
People seem to be confusing being "for net neutraliy" and being "for removing net neutrality."
Old     (racer808)      Join Date: Jan 2013       11-27-2017, 2:54 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by psudy View Post
You link does a dick job of explaining the issue but through googling I do stand corrected regarding the OBozo admin
Old     (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       11-27-2017, 2:57 PM Reply   
"a dick job"

Lol.
Old     (racer808)      Join Date: Jan 2013       11-27-2017, 3:15 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by plhorn View Post
Yes, the obama admin put in place the rules for net neutrality, so we agree there. The trump admin put in place the guy who is trying to get rid of net neutrality. So it kinda is a left right issue. Look at who is for it and aganst it in congress, their is a distnct pattern on only republicans being in favor of removing the net neutrality rules.
Well the good news is the Pubes don't have the votes so if it passes there is plenty of egg on the lefts face. From what I've gathered though the way these companies have been undermining the current net neutrality is they are simply buying up or merging with others to get their wishes. The short bit I've been able to go read is our current justice department is busing up or putting a stop to these mergers. Which sort of makes the issue moot?
Old     (plhorn)      Join Date: Dec 2005       11-28-2017, 10:28 AM Reply   
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42150322

Republicans are now setting up fake rape stories to discredit real rape victims to elect a pedophile to congress. Good thing they are the religious right or they would definitely go strait to hell.
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       11-28-2017, 10:31 AM Reply   
Yeah I posted this over in the other thread. Disgusting.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       11-28-2017, 11:07 AM Reply   
purveyor of fake stings tries to sting paper with fake news, becomes real news in the process. Irony can be so ironic.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       11-28-2017, 11:13 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by plhorn View Post
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42150322

Republicans are now setting up fake rape stories to discredit real rape victims to elect a pedophile to congress. Good thing they are the religious right or they would definitely go strait to hell.
Repugnant. Politicians are truely disgusting people.
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       11-28-2017, 12:58 PM Reply   
so they (project veritas) tried to "sting" the wash post, they get caught, they say that by them getting caught proves that the wash post is fake news. To quote Donnie trump jr..."I love it" . Wasn't project veritas the characters that made the fake videos of planned parenthood?
Old     (racer808)      Join Date: Jan 2013       11-28-2017, 1:59 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
purveyor of fake stings tries to sting paper with fake news, becomes real news in the process. Irony can be so ironic.
Yeah this story has me scratching my head
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       11-28-2017, 3:24 PM Reply   
https://www.yahoo.com/news/access-ho...131410988.html

Trump says Access Hollywood tape of him admitting to groping women is fake. The only thing that is fake is that he is a fake president.
Pocahontas is fake too.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       11-28-2017, 3:52 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 95sn View Post
https://www.yahoo.com/news/access-ho...131410988.html

Trump says Access Hollywood tape of him admitting to groping women is fake. The only thing that is fake is that he is a fake president.
Pocahontas is fake too.
Bizarre, he has admitted it earlier and put it down to "locker room talk"
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       11-28-2017, 4:02 PM Reply   
Trump has no regard for the truth. All those years of having everyone suck up to him because he's rich apparently has taught him that no one has the right to question him and therefore is not deserving of the truth.
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       11-28-2017, 6:01 PM Reply   
I'm not sure he has no regard for the truth. Its more he thinks he can say anything and then he believes his lie is now truth. Having a Sarah Huckabee to back up his crap does not hurt either. Did I add her to the deplorable list? Even as in this case, he admitted it (as locker room talk) now he has a new lie to toss out to his base. (Note to base, take a look at the video, it is not fake news, he really said that. He is lying again.) His base will foolishly believe everything he says. So in a way, lying works perfectly fine for him (because we allow him to get away with it). Why do we allow a president to lie on a several times a day pace and never call him to the table on it. He lies SO often, its just too much to keep up with.
Old     (wakeslash)      Join Date: Sep 2017       11-28-2017, 9:09 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 95sn View Post
I'm not sure he has no regard for the truth. Its more he thinks he can say anything and then he believes his lie is now truth. Having a Sarah Huckabee to back up his crap does not hurt either. Did I add her to the deplorable list? Even as in this case, he admitted it (as locker room talk) now he has a new lie to toss out to his base. (Note to base, take a look at the video, it is not fake news, he really said that. He is lying again.) His base will foolishly believe everything he says. So in a way, lying works perfectly fine for him (because we allow him to get away with it). Why do we allow a president to lie on a several times a day pace and never call him to the table on it. He lies SO often, its just too much to keep up with.
Unemployment rate is at historic low and this imbecile whining about Trump lying dafuq man you acting blind and deaf for?
Your just salty when you hear facts thats all.

Last edited by wakeslash; 11-28-2017 at 9:11 PM.
Old     (wakeslash)      Join Date: Sep 2017       11-28-2017, 9:15 PM Reply   
BTW its "Merry Christmas" not happy holidays. Thank you Trump for restoring order in the country again MAGA.
Obozo left nothing but a deep pit of crap, about destroyed the whole country and now its up to Trump to raise US out of it and hes doing a heck of a job too.

Last edited by wakeslash; 11-28-2017 at 9:24 PM.
Old     (Reddog78)      Join Date: Mar 2017       11-29-2017, 8:45 AM Reply   
Republicans democrats in officer atexall the same type yet younall have argued for over a 1000 pages over this ****. Lol wtf
Old     (racer808)      Join Date: Jan 2013       11-29-2017, 12:41 PM Reply   
Voting republican or democrat is simply choosing which hole you're gonna be raped in for four years
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       11-29-2017, 1:49 PM Reply   
Quote:
Unemployment rate is at historic low and this imbecile whining about Trump lying dafuq man you acting blind and deaf for?
Your just salty when you hear facts thats all.
So, I make a post about your hero lying and you respond with WTF, unemployment is low. WTF does that have to do with the liar in chief? Unemployment was handed to him low. Facts? Stay on topic or go back to the kids table.

Quote:
BTW its "Merry Christmas" not happy holidays. Thank you Trump for restoring order in the country again MAGA.
Obozo left nothing but a deep pit of crap, about destroyed the whole country and now its up to Trump to raise US out of it and hes doing a heck of a job too.
Do you have any idea what the economic state the usa was in in 08 when obumer took over? Do you know the economic state of the country when trump started driving the bus?
I have been saying Merry Christmas my whole life. What do you say? Is this a deal or something? who has stopped you from saying Merry Christmas? Who is behind the Merry Christmas ban? Charlie Brown Christmas still on TV every year right? Are you making **** up? Obozo left trump with a booming stock market, dropping unemployment and a country that was respected by other nations, it was no where near as divided as it is today. Thanks Trump. So what exactly is he doing that you think means he is doing a great job? Perhaps its all the legislation that he has passed, i mean Repubs do control the senate, the house and the white house right? Maybe its the strong handed way he is handling N. Korea? Well since they have popped off more missiles in number and power since dude was elected, i guess that's out. Perhaps it is the way he has cleared the swamp and got rid of pedophiles like Roy Moore? Finished building his wall that mexico is paying for? Get all those queers and trans wierdos out of the military? how about those tariff's on China, the great money manipulator? Hire the best of the best to fix the country? Mike Flynn, Paul Manafort, Anthony Scaramucci, Sean Spicer, Steve Bannon, Tom Price, Sebastian Gorka, Ryan Zinke, Steve Mnuchin, Scott Pruit........ Fix healthcare? WTF, anything? I'll wait.
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       11-30-2017, 12:36 PM Reply   
You forgot Tillerson. Looks like he'll be pushed out by the end of the week at this rate.

Trump white house = musical chairs. And it'll only get worse. It's Mueller Time!
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       11-30-2017, 12:39 PM Reply   
Picked this up the other day:
Attached Images
 
Old     (racer808)      Join Date: Jan 2013       11-30-2017, 1:00 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by pesos View Post
Picked this up the other day:
Nothing screams partisan hack with un resolved trauma issues better than a political attack shirt. Ranks up with there with MAGA hats.
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       11-30-2017, 1:25 PM Reply   
XD
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       11-30-2017, 1:39 PM Reply   
Sarah Huckabee Sanders current creator of alternative truths. Explaining trumps tweeting of anti muslim videos.... "It's never the wrong time to talk about security and safety for the American people." 2nd biggest liar in Washington.
If trump were caught on video robbing a 7-11 at gunpoint Sanders explanation would be that he was trying to help the 7-11 owner by doing research and tests on their security system.
The videos he posted were actual videos, not fake. However one was an Isis produced video (crashing a Virgin Mary statue), the fight between two school boys (who trump said it was a muslim migrant beating up a dutch white kid) who were both just dutch kids, no muslims. On the plus side, David Duke gave trump props for his retweeting. Go figure, Duke and trump of the same mindset. The last one was from a far right group in UK...much like our KKK. Thanks Donald.
Seriously trump is losing it...going further to the right as his senility kicks in. All in less than a week,,,Re ups support for Roy Moore. Sees a need to throw in political barbs at Warren, calling her Pocahontas during a ceremony for WWII vets who BTW were Navajo. Classy. Posts "Muslim" hate videos. While pitching "his" tax plan says it wont benefit him. #1 liar in Washington.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/don...x-plan-n825066
He is single handedly killing the CFPB by installing a new head who has said in the past it should be blown up. He is about to fire his sec of State. Remember...he will hire Only the Best promise?
Old     (racer808)      Join Date: Jan 2013       11-30-2017, 1:44 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 95sn View Post
Sarah Huckabee Sanders current creator of alternative truths. Explaining trumps tweeting of anti muslim videos.... "It's never the wrong time to talk about security and safety for the American people." 2nd biggest liar in Washington.
If trump were caught on video robbing a 7-11 at gunpoint Sanders explanation would be that he was trying to help the 7-11 owner by doing research and tests on their security system.
The videos he posted were actual videos, not fake. However one was an Isis produced video (crashing a Virgin Mary statue), the fight between two school boys (who trump said it was a muslim migrant beating up a dutch white kid) who were both just dutch kids, no muslims. On the plus side, David Duke gave trump props for his retweeting. Go figure, Duke and trump of the same mindset. The last one was from a far right group in UK...much like our KKK. Thanks Donald.
Seriously trump is losing it...going further to the right as his senility kicks in. All in less than a week,,,Re ups support for Roy Moore. Sees a need to throw in political barbs at Warren, calling her Pocahontas during a ceremony for WWII vets who BTW were Navajo. Classy. Posts "Muslim" hate videos. While pitching "his" tax plan says it wont benefit him. #1 liar in Washington.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/don...x-plan-n825066
He is single handedly killing the CFPB by installing a new head who has said in the past it should be blown up. He is about to fire his sec of State. Remember...he will hire Only the Best promise?
So are you upset they are spinning things better than the left spins things?
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       11-30-2017, 4:21 PM Reply   
Quote:
So are you upset they are spinning things better than the left spins things?
Well, yeah. It is beyond spin, it is flat out lying.
Did you peek at the link? Here is the first few paragraphs...


President Donald Trump made another sales pitch for his tax plan in Missouri on Wednesday, repeating his erroneous claim that the Republican bill, if passed, would cost him and other rich Americans “a fortune.”
“This is going to cost me a fortune, this thing, believe me," Trump told an enthusiastic crowd in St. Charles, just outside St. Louis. "This is not good for me."
He added that his “very wealthy friends” were “not so happy with me” when it came to the bill, but he pressed Senate Republicans to pass it this week anyway.
In fact, Trump and his family could save more than $1 billion under the House tax plan that passed two weeks ago, according to an NBC News analysis.

President Donald Trump speaks about tax reform legislation in St. Louis, Missouri on Wednesday, Nov. 29, 2017. Kevin Lamarque / Reuters
And under the Senate plan, the wealthiest Americans, like Trump, would get nearly 62 percent of all of its benefits by 2027, while two-thirds of middle-class Americans would face a tax increase, according to the Tax Policy Center, a nonpartisan think tank in Washington.
Meanwhile, according to the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office, the poorest Americans would be worse off under the Senate tax plan, because they would no longer receive tax credits under the Affordable Care Act's individual mandate, which the bill would eliminate

Saying the tax bill will not benefit him is not "SPIN" its lying. I despise having such a pathological liar in that office. I have an issue with liars...ask a few of my past girlfriends why they are past.
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       11-30-2017, 4:32 PM Reply   
It's also going to cause a $1 trillion deficit. Absurd.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       12-01-2017, 10:18 AM Reply   
Flynn pleads guilty to lying to the FBI:https://www.politico.com/story/2017/...-guilty-274349

Last edited by shawndoggy; 12-01-2017 at 10:22 AM.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       12-01-2017, 10:27 AM Reply   
Flynn to flip on president, or fake news?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKBN1DV4S7
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       12-01-2017, 10:30 AM Reply   
Old     (racer808)      Join Date: Jan 2013       12-01-2017, 10:30 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
Flynn to flip on president, or fake news?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKBN1DV4S7
Doesn't say what he was direct to make contact for. Making contact is not a crime. If it was some quid pro quo then Trumps effed in the A. But it says a member of the Trump team, doesn't blame Trump or did I miss something?

"Though the individuals are not named, court documents show Flynn claiming a “very senior member” of the Trump transition team directed him to contact foreign governments including Russia over a United Nations vote – which was the subject of one of Flynn's false statements.

The documents also say Flynn called an unnamed senior transition official in December to ask what to communicate to the Russian ambassador about sanctions. That official and Flynn discussed how they didn’t want Russia to "escalate the situation," something Flynn immediately told the ambassador in a phone call. "

That also doesn't sound criminal except for Flynn lying about it.

Last edited by racer808; 12-01-2017 at 10:32 AM.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       12-01-2017, 10:38 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by racer808 View Post
That also doesn't sound criminal except for Flynn lying about it.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017...sia-probe.html

yeah fox is saying "very senior member of transition team." The reuters link was reporting on an unverified ABC News story that said trump himself. I guess time will tell.

And you are right... I really don't know whether post-election/pre-swearing-in contact between Trump team and Russia on foreign policy matters is criminal or not. I mean Flynn was worried enough about it to lie multiple times to many people, but whether there's a crime isn't clear.
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       12-01-2017, 10:49 AM Reply   
If that senior member is the Kush then...
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       12-01-2017, 11:11 AM Reply   
Soooo, do all trumps girlfriends here now jump from there is no evidence to the Russia story to Russia aren't that bad anyway? Interested to see. ....
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       12-01-2017, 11:59 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
Soooo, do all trumps girlfriends here now jump from there is no evidence to the Russia story to Russia aren't that bad anyway? Interested to see. ....
So what he plead guilty to is lying about the content of post-election contact, not a conspiracy to collude before the election.

So at this moment, I think he can still say no collusion with a semi straight face.*

* caveat being that the campaign tried to collude (popodopolus, carter page, don jr. meeting, potentially wikileaks) but no evidence (yet) that an actual quid pro quo existed.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       12-01-2017, 12:03 PM Reply   
It would not surprise me if Trump is actually ignorant of all this stuff. He doesn't seem to care much about details and minutia and delegates that stuff to subordinates. During the campaign Trumps job was go go to rallies and get on TV and just say some dumb stuff (the fewer facts the better). We are talking about the guy who already did like 10 stupid things THIS WEEK. A policy wonk he ain't. So during the campaign he did his job (be a blowhard trainwreck that we can't look away from) and let the underlings to theirs.

Wouldn't surprise me at all if there were some dirt under Don Jr.'s of Jared's manicured fingernails tho.
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       12-01-2017, 12:49 PM Reply   
funny thing about Flynn is that obumer tried to warn him. He flat out told him not to hire him. Trump though knows better. He will stock up on anything anti Obama. If Obama suggests left, trump goes right. If Obama tries to help air quality, trump pumps a dead coal production plan. Obama initiates the healthcare system trump kicks out the legs...
http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/08/politi...ynn/index.html
Funny how trumpy tweets crazy out of thin air ideas, re tweets racist vids...remember the "no transgender in the military" tweets? Howed that work out. Turns out he is pulling the media away from the Russia investigation.
Yesterday Jeff Sessions (nothing but Alabama's best) was interrogated again. When point blank asked if trump asked him to intervene in the Russia
investigation....he declined to answer. Interesting....criminal.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ays/909742001/
http://thehill.com/homenews/house/36...-him-to-hinder
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       12-01-2017, 12:54 PM Reply   
XD
Attached Images
 
Old     (wakeslash)      Join Date: Sep 2017       12-01-2017, 2:33 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 95sn View Post
funny thing about Flynn is that obumer tried to warn him. He flat out told him not to hire him. Trump though knows better. He will stock up on anything anti Obama. If Obama suggests left, trump goes right. If Obama tries to help air quality, trump pumps a dead coal production plan. Obama initiates the healthcare system trump kicks out the legs...
http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/08/politi...ynn/index.html
Funny how trumpy tweets crazy out of thin air ideas, re tweets racist vids...remember the "no transgender in the military" tweets? Howed that work out. Turns out he is pulling the media away from the Russia investigation.
Yesterday Jeff Sessions (nothing but Alabama's best) was interrogated again. When point blank asked if trump asked him to intervene in the Russia
investigation....he declined to answer. Interesting....criminal.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ays/909742001/
http://thehill.com/homenews/house/36...-him-to-hinder
lmao what racist tweets you triggered SJW i never saw a single thing racist on his twitter your pretty clueless everything you see is racist to you fools now there is nothing not racist for you the air we breathe is racist too im sure, i cant tell if your serious or your actually that stupid at this point smh.
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       12-01-2017, 4:16 PM Reply   
https://thinkprogress.org/white-hous...-9a9917fdad24/
http://nymag.com/selectall/2017/12/t...ps-tweets.html
http://www.smh.com.au/world/donald-t...30-gzvvwn.html
http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/29/politi...sen/index.html
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/...-before-10-am/

Do you read?
Did you see the tweets? or are you just wasting oxygen ?
Its not just racist....the fool lied and tried to make Muslims look bad. You cannot promote violence against anyone, Silly laws and all. Your boy is promoting violence on muslims. Except he F'ed up and the kids were both Dutch. The videos are from racist organizations. Alex Jones (Hillary Clinton is running a child sex ring under a pizza parlor, and, TheSandyhook rampage wasn't real...Infowars...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_J...8radio_host%29 )
.... the conspiracy theory dude refused to play the videos trump did. Dumb and racist. The UK, one of our most important allies, they are about done with trump, ready to cancel his upcoming visit. Sad that trumpo has to lie to make muslims look bad. The whole world (except wakeslash) think Trump is a moron, this includes his Sec. of State. Keep smacking your head...eventually the clog will rattle loose. Good Luck.
Old     (wakeslash)      Join Date: Sep 2017       12-01-2017, 4:21 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 95sn View Post
https://thinkprogress.org/white-hous...-9a9917fdad24/
http://nymag.com/selectall/2017/12/t...ps-tweets.html
http://www.smh.com.au/world/donald-t...30-gzvvwn.html
http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/29/politi...sen/index.html
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/...-before-10-am/

Do you read?
Did you see the tweets? or are you just wasting oxygen ?
Its not just racist....the fool lied and tried to make Muslims look bad. You cannot promote violence against anyone, Silly laws and all. Your boy is promoting violence on muslims. Except he F'ed up and the kids were both Dutch. The videos are from racist organizations. Alex Jones (Hillary Clinton is running a child sex ring under a pizza parlor, and, TheSandyhook rampage wasn't real...Infowars...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_J...8radio_host%29 )
.... the conspiracy theory dude refused to play the videos trump did. Dumb and racist. The UK, one of our most important allies, they are about done with trump, ready to cancel his upcoming visit. Sad that trumpo has to lie to make muslims look bad. The whole world (except wakeslash) think Trump is a moron, this includes his Sec. of State. Keep smacking your head...eventually the clog will rattle loose. Good Luck.
Trying to make look muslims look bad? say what they are doing a excellent job of making themselves look bad ie jumping in a homedepot rental truck and flooring that thing into crowds of people wtf are you talking about. The race card is just getting so damn old find something else a while ago you say racist and people would have a heart attack now nobody gives a hoot if you say its all bs.

Hold up did you just link CNN WTHHHHH! CNN is ISIS , you need help if you think anyone looks at CNN except people with serious issues.

Last edited by wakeslash; 12-01-2017 at 4:25 PM.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       12-01-2017, 4:46 PM Reply   
When you leave the Faux News echo chamber this is what you see, the rest of the world thinks your president is an infant.
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Old     (wakeslash)      Join Date: Sep 2017       12-01-2017, 5:42 PM Reply   
Haha UK is being run over with terrorists and illegals right now looooollll its not even worth our time lmao.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       12-01-2017, 7:49 PM Reply   
I didn't get that impression when I was there in March. You ever been to the UK or are you basing your opinion on Faux News?
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       12-01-2017, 8:07 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 95sn View Post
Do you read?
You guys are making a big mistake trying to engage that troll in conversation.
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       12-01-2017, 8:11 PM Reply   
"Troll" is being generous.
Old     (wakeslash)      Join Date: Sep 2017       12-01-2017, 11:45 PM Reply   
When i say the truth all you crybaby snowflakes resort to saying "troll" lmaoo you guys are tools for real. We dont care what everyone thinks about us everyone knows one peep and there wiped off the earth lmaooooo were not fooling around with Trump in here this aint obozo the puppet no sireeee one peep and there gone never existed thats why its in there best interest to lay low right now hahaha MAGA in here letsgoooooooo heck we might even clean wakeworld while were at it letsgooo.

Last edited by wakeslash; 12-01-2017 at 11:55 PM.
Old     (plhorn)      Join Date: Dec 2005       12-02-2017, 8:19 AM Reply   
It's official, the republicans have raised taxes on anyone making less than $75,000 while substantially cutting taxes for the super wealthy and adding a projected 1 trillion dollars to the national dept. If you are a Republican and not a billionaire you are a colossal idiot.
Old     (racer808)      Join Date: Jan 2013       12-02-2017, 8:31 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by plhorn View Post
It's official, the republicans have raised taxes on anyone making less than $75,000 while substantially cutting taxes for the super wealthy and adding a projected 1 trillion dollars to the national dept. If you are a Republican and not a billionaire you are a colossal idiot.
A family making 75k a year is in tax bracket two which went from 15% to 12%. Tell us again, Colossal Idiot?
Old     (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       12-02-2017, 10:29 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by racer808 View Post
A family making 75k a year is in tax bracket two which went from 15% to 12%. Tell us again, Colossal Idiot?
Quote:
Originally Posted by plhorn View Post
It's official, the republicans have raised taxes on anyone making less than $75,000 while substantially cutting taxes for the super wealthy and adding a projected 1 trillion dollars to the national dept. If you are a Republican and not a billionaire you are a colossal idiot.

Gee my health care costs more than tripled And I take less home than ever before under the last guy. My democratically run city and state just raised our taxes to the max again for the 6th yr in a row. So I guess if you’re a Democrat and not a billionaire you’re an idiot

Last edited by xstarrider; 12-02-2017 at 10:32 AM.
Old     (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       12-02-2017, 10:36 AM Reply   
When will you guys realize if you search for positive you will be fed positive,if you search for negative you will be fed negative. If you try and change someone's opinion by using facts and logic you will be trying forever. If you search for God and have Jesus in your heart none of this trivial earthly stuff will matter. You will be focused on eternity and have peace and prosperity that only God can provide in your time on earth.
Old     (wakeslash)      Join Date: Sep 2017       12-02-2017, 12:36 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwb4me View Post
When will you guys realize if you search for positive you will be fed positive,if you search for negative you will be fed negative. If you try and change someone's opinion by using facts and logic you will be trying forever. If you search for God and have Jesus in your heart none of this trivial earthly stuff will matter. You will be focused on eternity and have peace and prosperity that only God can provide in your time on earth.
True.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       12-02-2017, 6:39 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwb4me View Post
If you try and change someone's opinion by using facts and logic you will be trying forever.

Sad.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       12-03-2017, 6:12 PM Reply   
Lol, does anybody believe that Trump doesn't write his own tweets. Come on!

http://thehill.com/homenews/administ...my-mistake?amp
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       12-04-2017, 7:22 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 95sn View Post
I'm not sure he has no regard for the truth. Its more he thinks he can say anything and then he believes his lie is now truth.
If Trump actually believes that isn't his voice on the tape then we have a President with a severe mental disorder. Which is a lot different than an boorish intellectually lazy lying narcissist.
Old     (plhorn)      Join Date: Dec 2005       12-04-2017, 10:00 AM Reply   
Old     (plhorn)      Join Date: Dec 2005       12-04-2017, 10:02 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by racer808 View Post
A family making 75k a year is in tax bracket two which went from 15% to 12%. Tell us again, Colossal Idiot?
And their insurance went up by 19%. Which is much more than the 3% tax savings, Colossal Idiot.
Old     (plhorn)      Join Date: Dec 2005       12-04-2017, 10:03 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwb4me View Post
When will you guys realize if you search for positive you will be fed positive,if you search for negative you will be fed negative. If you try and change someone's opinion by using facts and logic you will be trying forever. If you search for God and have Jesus in your heart none of this trivial earthly stuff will matter. You will be focused on eternity and have peace and prosperity that only God can provide in your time on earth.
I had an invisible friend when I was a kid too.
Old     (plhorn)      Join Date: Dec 2005       12-04-2017, 10:28 AM Reply   
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKBN1DY18L

Trump endorses Pedophile. Surprising no-one. Glad to see the Christian right is cool about molestation in public now, instead of it being a dirty secret like they usually treat it.
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