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Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       02-20-2020, 7:51 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 95sn View Post
This doesnt answer the question. If you are going to say that someone is a Dem plant you should have some base in fact. Youre just making stuff up to bully a child, a 16 yr old girl. You feel tough now?
I dont understand grown adults that feel the need to bully literally a little girl. It should be beneath you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greta_Thunberg
She is not a dem plant. She is a child being used by democrats which is pretty typical. They whip up the children into an emotional state then use their reactions for propaganda. She is a victim of the leftists.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       02-20-2020, 7:59 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
Delta? He said:



That's all well and good for emergency care, but leaves folks with medically treatable cronic conditions (like diabetics) out in the cold.
Not really. Almost every medical need for majority of people are taken care of by the urgent care or emergency care. You show up at your doctor with an acute medical emergency, they send you to the ER. Period. Even at urgent care, more than a bad cough, they send you to ER.

At some point you are in the system and a qualified doctor gets you a prescription. That is where the cost comes in from the pharma position.

Does requiring people to buy a $300 plus a month emergency medical plan with a several thousand dollar deductible help the person who only really needs to buy some relatively common medicine?

Like I said, many state like california have state sponsored plans that help the poor have access to private medical and prescriptions.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       02-20-2020, 8:02 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
Delta? He said:



That's all well and good for emergency care, but leaves folks with medically treatable cronic conditions (like diabetics) out in the cold.
Oh. Mark is being rhetorical. We all can see the pharma industry is screwed up.

You can not remove profit motive or you would not have new medicine being developed. At the same time, you can not tell me that a penny pill for a dog is now a $1 pill for a human. Oddly enough now that they are getting pet insurance, that penny pill is heading toward a dollar. What is the common factor? Money in the system.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       02-20-2020, 8:09 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 95sn View Post
I dont recall Obamas enemy hit list, whos trial/s did they fix. remind me. Ö..still waiting.
How many more times are you going to whine about "cant accept the 2016 election"... One trick pony? whine on snowflake.
The only party running w/o respect is the one that ran the sham cover-up of an impeachment trial. The one who hired Barr to cover-up, assist guilty trump people and harass, investigate, and remove innocent honest Americans, literally Purple Heart recipients. This is a lot like how Putin did it. Scare and silence all who question the autocrat. Tactics.
" I dont care what trump does"... no need to broadcast that, its pretty obvious.
Actually Trump allowed democrats to stay in their positions. With the start of every new president, all the ambassadors and many political appointees in the government turn in their resignation to the president. Obama accepted them. Trump allowed many to stay. They in turn stabbed him in the back.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       02-20-2020, 8:34 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
That's my point. Show me an all private system that serves the needs of all students and does it less expensively.



Many many many are also motivated by a sense of patriotism and duty to country. When I stand for the national anthem, or give thanks for the fallen on memorial day or thank a veteran on veteran's day, I'm not including Blackwater, and I don't think the President is laying a wreath at the tomb of the fallen mercenaries.
Your statement is a false statement. School does not serve all students and it certainly does not do it less expensively. If I were to privatize schools, it would look very much like the german system.

Identify the kids very early for their ability to learn and process concepts. Those who do not make the grade are put into very reduce program that teaches them a very limited skill set with little academic degree of difficulty, but with a heavy hands on labor component. Re-evalute the previously high achievers and see if their motivation or abilities changed as they progress then move them into more technical training, then only the highest functioning would move to more academic programing and become your doctors, engineers, scientists and so on. It would be very efficient and not as wasteful with less teachers required. You will have got rid of your bullies and dope heads by the time you are in high school and need less class room space. Trust me, public education is not less expensive if you were to get down to it. It only is what it is due to current requirements.

You certainly will have people who get passed over as they are late bloomers but you also get the kids who tone out in high school into a vocational program so they have hope and a skill set instead of being on the street.

On the military.

We have not had a draft in some time or a large war where everyone is signing up to go fight the evil man. I say you have a mix of patriots and a mix of people who don't really care other than it is better than working at the saw mill. Most of the people I have met did it because they could not afford college or they had to do something. I work with a bunch of wx-military in my job and I did get the pleasure of hanging out in a Marine base for 4th of July one year and met a few that just wanted a chance to go F some crap up. Most of them were in the category that I described. All different reasons, not all is for the ol red white and blue. They were not forced to be there via a draft, but social reasons they were force to be there. I have a life long childhood friend who stayed in Germany post deployment. There are a ton of ex-military that do that.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       02-20-2020, 8:46 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 95sn View Post
Its really difficult to FAKE over 250 trump campaign contacts with Russians including Don Jr, Kushner, Flynn, Sessions and.... Its also pretty tough to go back in time (20 years) and fake trumps credit rating that forced him to work with Deutsche Bank and Russian money laundering. It was difficult to take over the trump inaugural from his people and walk off with the missing $50-60 million that he is under investigation. One of the more difficult was to fake trump in Helsinki and make his lips say the words, I trust Putin, I dont know why he would lie, the day after ALL US intelligence agencies said Russia interfered and how and what they did. Remember that time in trumps speech the dems lip synced... Russia, if you are listening.... F-ing genius these democrats. Crazy Dems told WIKI head Assange, hey, if you will lie for us and cover our tracks we can work something out, wink wink. Those tricky dems pulled out all their tricks to get Roger Stone to lie to the FBI and force him to threaten witnesses. The way they got Flynn to lie about his Russian contacts is the stuff of 4K chess, right? That dem plant that faked how trump and his sister duped the IRS and didnt pay tax on that little inheritance from dad. I dont think she expected to be forced to quit her lifetime appointment as a fed judge, but she did to avoid investigations, damn crafty dems. I still dont get how they got him on the phone with Ukraine and had him ask them for help on his 2020 presidential election, they are just that good. They really stepped it up when the bullied him into buying a 6 ft picture of himself, the Tebow helmet and pay $250 M in legal fees and donations to his own campaign with funds from his "Charity" that was collected under the pretense of helping our Veterans. Your a sharp guy, how'ed they do any of that? Lets get to the bottom of this.
Marge says they are monkey's trying to hump a football, you are saying their F-ing stable geniuses, changing history, forcing trump to say things, do things he didnt. Wow, a Super Power Party.
Would Stone be in a position to lie to the FBI if not for the fake accusations that put him in the cross hairs. That is what they convicted him of. Sure, he should not have done it but he would not have been in the position if not for democrats.

Again with Trumps sister. She did nothing illegal, but did not want investigations. She did nothing illegal but defending yourself from false accusations can take a toll and frankly can bankrupt you.

you love to go back to having communications with the Russians. All presidential teams have contacts with foreign leaders. So what. Obama did too. Did we investigate that? Clinton did as well.

You are a special kind of dangerous. Almost every thing you said was he was being investigated. Investigated means guilt in your eyes. Ironic, it is democrats feeding false information that is getting investigations, democrat operatives seeding investigations or they themselves ordering the investigations. You democrats hate Trump and are you using every dirty trick in the book to try and get him. All the things that any other person in government has done is now ok, but Trump does it we are going to "investigate it". That is why7 democrats are so dangerous. Look at the laws in california. All schemes to pay for their political partners to line their pockets. We will let you walk that dog but it has to be on a 3ft leash. Not a 4 ft or a 2 ft leash. If you do, we will fine you. Of course everyone walks the dog on whatever leash, but Trump does it now he is outside the law. That is what your party has become.

At least you are not lying anymore about being a Republican. Your first introduction to this discussion, you had to lie but now we need to believe all the crap you say. Tell us more.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       02-20-2020, 11:29 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
You can not remove profit motive or you would not have new medicine being developed. At the same time, you can not tell me that a penny pill for a dog is now a $1 pill for a human. Oddly enough now that they are getting pet insurance, that penny pill is heading toward a dollar. What is the common factor? Money in the system.
Having trouble understanding what you are saying is unrestricted capitalism the solution to everything or not?
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       02-20-2020, 12:18 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
Actually Trump allowed democrats to stay in their positions. With the start of every new president, all the ambassadors and many political appointees in the government turn in their resignation to the president. Obama accepted them. Trump allowed many to stay. They in turn stabbed him in the back.
Really? Sounds like more garbage from you. Yovanovitch worked for George W, Obama, and Trump. Bill Taylor worked for the Government for over 50 years (how many presidents is that?) top 1% at West Point and bronze star recip. These are life long gov employees. There job isnt really political they work for Repubs as well as dems. Lt. Cor. Vindman was a Purple Star recip and spent his entire adult life in the Army and working for the Govt. These are just a few of the people YOU say stabbed trump in the back. Gen John Kelly said Vindman did "exactly what we teach them to do from cradle to grave".
Is exactly what we teach them and "stabbing trump in the back" the same?
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       02-20-2020, 12:33 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
Would Stone be in a position to lie to the FBI if not for the fake accusations that put him in the cross hairs. That is what they convicted him of. Sure, he should not have done it but he would not have been in the position if not for democrats.

Again with Trumps sister. She did nothing illegal, but did not want investigations. She did nothing illegal but defending yourself from false accusations can take a toll and frankly can bankrupt you.

you love to go back to having communications with the Russians. All presidential teams have contacts with foreign leaders. So what. Obama did too. Did we investigate that? Clinton did as well.

You are a special kind of dangerous. Almost every thing you said was he was being investigated. Investigated means guilt in your eyes. Ironic, it is democrats feeding false information that is getting investigations, democrat operatives seeding investigations or they themselves ordering the investigations. You democrats hate Trump and are you using every dirty trick in the book to try and get him. All the things that any other person in government has done is now ok, but Trump does it we are going to "investigate it". That is why7 democrats are so dangerous. Look at the laws in california. All schemes to pay for their political partners to line their pockets. We will let you walk that dog but it has to be on a 3ft leash. Not a 4 ft or a 2 ft leash. If you do, we will fine you. Of course everyone walks the dog on whatever leash, but Trump does it now he is outside the law. That is what your party has become.

At least you are not lying anymore about being a Republican. Your first introduction to this discussion, you had to lie but now we need to believe all the crap you say. Tell us more.
Dont be such a fool. Roger Stone was the one who said he had contact w/ Assange. Did the FBI (in addition to all the history the super power dems changed) force Stone to open his mouth and get involved? Did the FBI put the judges picture with crosshair trained on her head? You are full of crap.
Right, most all those fed judges leave lifetime positions because they didnt do anything.
" the Trump siblings "had engaged in dubious tax schemes during the 1990s, including instances of outright fraud, that greatly increased the inherited wealth of Mr. Trump and his siblings. Judge Barry not only benefited financially from most of those tax schemes, The Times found; she was also in a position to influence the actions taken by her family."
Again, youre full of crap.
You forgot to tell me how those dirty Dems re-wrote history. Why trump offered pardon for Assange. How he didnt steal from Vets by stealing from his own Trump Family Foundation, Why he is suing Deutsche bank...... You couldn't contest one thing I said.
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       02-20-2020, 1:45 PM Reply   
and moscow mitch blocked 3 more bills on election security since trumps impeachment.

https://apnews.com/4912baca0c4cbc6cb7a3580f4f3c9b96
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       02-20-2020, 4:21 PM Reply   
Always good when a pest control company arrives to kill off cock roaches. Thanks for coming back, Delta. Only you have the Obi Wan Kenobi patience, time and breadth of knowledge to stomp these resident libtards into the dirt. 95sn is still the little train that could. So cute. Keep goin, little fella!
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       02-21-2020, 3:22 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by markj View Post
Always good when a pest control company arrives to kill off cock roaches. Thanks for coming back, Delta. Only you have the Obi Wan Kenobi patience, time and breadth of knowledge to stomp these resident libtards into the dirt. 95sn is still the little train that could. So cute. Keep goin, little fella!
He's like the Dan Bongino of wakeworld.
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       02-21-2020, 3:37 AM Reply   
100%
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       02-21-2020, 4:31 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 95sn View Post
Really? Sounds like more garbage from you. Yovanovitch worked for George W, Obama, and Trump. Bill Taylor worked for the Government for over 50 years (how many presidents is that?) top 1% at West Point and bronze star recip. These are life long gov employees. There job isnt really political they work for Repubs as well as dems. Lt. Cor. Vindman was a Purple Star recip and spent his entire adult life in the Army and working for the Govt. These are just a few of the people YOU say stabbed trump in the back. Gen John Kelly said Vindman did "exactly what we teach them to do from cradle to grave".
Is exactly what we teach them and "stabbing trump in the back" the same?
Which is funny because when push came to shove, good ol Vindman testified under oath that he in FACT did not hear the conversation. He in FACT heard about it from other people talking about it. As it turns, they were fed a narrative by democrat operatives about they wanted the conversation to be about. That was his testamony under oath. He chose to get himself into much more of the politics than someone of his rank ever should have. If he did not actually hear a conversation, he as a career military guy should have never got his nose into it.

Sounds to me Bill Taylor is part of the swamp that you seem to believe does not exist. You know the type of person that I pointed out that stays around in government organizations through multiple presidents that you say does not exist. You need to read up on Stockholm Syndrom or variations where someone works with and near other people and starts to care more for those people than for the people they either work for or live with. That is what happens when you have these career ambassadors. They WILL start to sympathize with the host country and start to direct and even defend the host countries policies over their own country. There should never ever be a ambassador working that long. period. If Taylor is a career employee, his job is not over, he simply does another job in the government but he will not be in country which he should not be for that long anyway.

As far as resignations:

https://www.transitionjobs.us/resour...al-transition/

At the time presidential administrations change, current incumbents of these discretionary positions customarily resign at the request of the new incoming administration officials or before a new agency head takes office. Certain individuals may be asked by the incoming administration to remain in their jobs during the transition to ensure continuity during the selection process.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       02-21-2020, 4:39 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 95sn View Post
Dont be such a fool. Roger Stone was the one who said he had contact w/ Assange. Did the FBI (in addition to all the history the super power dems changed) force Stone to open his mouth and get involved? Did the FBI put the judges picture with crosshair trained on her head? You are full of crap.
Right, most all those fed judges leave lifetime positions because they didnt do anything.
" the Trump siblings "had engaged in dubious tax schemes during the 1990s, including instances of outright fraud, that greatly increased the inherited wealth of Mr. Trump and his siblings. Judge Barry not only benefited financially from most of those tax schemes, The Times found; she was also in a position to influence the actions taken by her family."
Again, youre full of crap.
You forgot to tell me how those dirty Dems re-wrote history. Why trump offered pardon for Assange. How he didnt steal from Vets by stealing from his own Trump Family Foundation, Why he is suing Deutsche bank...... You couldn't contest one thing I said.
You do realize that Stone has been a long time political election guy for decades. He even worked for Reagan among others. The democrats wanted nothing more than to get him because of the work he has did against them in past elections. This type of behavior demonstrated by democrats should scare you but here you are again embrasing it. Set up people with fake documents and get the highest level of law enforcement on them because they could not beat the guy in election politics.

Dubious tax schemes? Uh huh. Another one of those loaded words. Not naming the "tax scheme". Just saying it is dubious and letting the useful idiots run with it. You really don't see how this works do you? That makes you even more dangerous to society.

Is anything you say I can't disprove illegal? Why do I need to prove something that is not illegal and if it was illegal and he had to pay it back then that is the cost of doing business. He pays it back. I love how you add the stealing from Vets part. More emotional drivel.
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Texas       02-21-2020, 4:50 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
Which is funny because when push came to shove, good ol Vindman testified under oath that he in FACT did not hear the conversation. He in FACT heard about it from other people talking about it.
What are you talking about?
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       02-21-2020, 5:03 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
Sounds to me Bill Taylor is part of the swamp that you seem to believe does not exist. You know the type of person that I pointed out that stays around in government organizations through multiple presidents that you say does not exist.
Didn't the Pompeo State Dept. recruit Taylor out of retirement after the President recalled Yavanovich? I hope Devin Nunes investigates that deep state double whammy!
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Texas       02-21-2020, 5:19 AM Reply   
Yep Taylor had to be convinced. Delta is full of chit.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       02-21-2020, 5:19 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by pesos View Post
What are you talking about?
Apparently you did not actually listen to the questioning session where Vindman literally said he did not actually hear the conversation just like all the other witnesses testified they did not hear the conversation. Only one person was in on the conversation and he testified that the president did not want anything. The rest testified under oath in public to congress that they only heard about the conversation and that they did not even think of it as asking Ukraine for anything until they HEARD that was what it was about. Basically they said out loud that until someone planted the idea of Trump trying to get something political from Ukraine they did not know that was what the conversation was about. Even then, none of them heard it. It was nothing but a hit job by Schiff and that is dangerous.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       02-21-2020, 5:38 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
Didn't the Pompeo State Dept. recruit Taylor out of retirement after the President recalled Yavanovich? I hope Devin Nunes investigates that deep state double whammy!
You tell me that Taylor was not just supporting the Ukraine position? Then why under oath did Taylor state that he told Pompeo that if the policy of strong support for Ukraine did not continue, he would have to resign?????

That tells everyone right there that he was more sympathetic to Ukraine that he was his own countries policy position. Can not be any more clear. He had predetermined bias for Ukraine and was willing to even quit his job in order to work in their best interests. He was not the only one in the swamp and the only one who actually talked to the president specifically said under oath that the president did not want anything.


https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/tru...imony-n1077676

Page 33.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       02-21-2020, 5:38 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
Apparently you did not actually listen to the questioning session where Vindman literally said he did not actually hear the conversation just like all the other witnesses testified they did not hear the conversation. Only one person was in on the conversation and he testified that the president did not want anything. The rest testified under oath in public to congress that they only heard about the conversation and that they did not even think of it as asking Ukraine for anything until they HEARD that was what it was about. Basically they said out loud that until someone planted the idea of Trump trying to get something political from Ukraine they did not know that was what the conversation was about. Even then, none of them heard it. It was nothing but a hit job by Schiff and that is dangerous.
Are we talking about the July 25 phone call?

Quote:
He said he listened to the call in the Situation Room with White House colleagues.
https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-ne...e7509a22b947b5
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       02-21-2020, 5:40 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
You tell me that Taylor was not just supporting the Ukraine position? Then why under oath did Taylor state that he told Pompeo that if the policy of strong support for Ukraine did not continue, he would have to resign?????

That tells everyone right there that he was more sympathetic to Ukraine that he was his own countries policy position. Can not be any more clear. He had predetermined bias for Ukraine and was willing to even quit his job in order to work in their best interests. He was not the only one in the swamp and the only one who actually talked to the president specifically said under oath that the president did not want anything.


https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/tru...imony-n1077676

Page 33.
He told Pompeo that BEFORE he took the job. What kind of deep state jedi mind trick forced Pompeo to nevertheless hire him under those circumstances?
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       02-21-2020, 5:54 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
He told Pompeo that BEFORE he took the job. What kind of deep state jedi mind trick forced Pompeo to nevertheless hire him under those circumstances?
does not matter when he told him that. We are not talking about Pompeo, we are talking about Taylor's mindset regarding Ukraine and it proves my point. He, like many of those people, start to sympathize with the host country after a while. Pretty simple really.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       02-21-2020, 5:55 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
Are we talking about the July 25 phone call?



https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-ne...e7509a22b947b5
ah yes, your fake news CNN. Go to his actual congressional testimony where he said he was not on the call and heard about it with those terms attached.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       02-21-2020, 6:11 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
ah yes, your fake news CNN. Go to his actual congressional testimony where he said he was not on the call and heard about it with those terms attached.
link please.

Quote:
does not matter when he told him that. We are not talking about Pompeo, we are talking about Taylor's mindset regarding Ukraine and it proves my point. He, like many of those people, start to sympathize with the host country after a while. Pretty simple really.
And that's the deep state's fault, not Pompeo's fault for hiring a Ukraine supporter who told Pompeo he was a Ukraine supporter and that he'd only take the job on the condition that he continue to advocate for Ukraine? Seems like if that were a problem, the thing to do is cross him off the list and move on to the next person, not blame him for (gasp!) doing what he said he was going to do.
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       02-21-2020, 6:26 AM Reply   
Delta is off his meds.
Vindman was on the call. Again, you cant change history unless we are Super Powers Dems.
Vindman and Taylor, Yovanovitch were all working towards correct US Foreign policy. Trump and his since indicted goons were working on trumps personal political endeavors AGAINST US policy. No need to come back and say the president creates foreign policy BS. Not when it is in his own personal benefit and against the goals of the US. You really dont seem to understand what we are trying to do in Ukraine do you. Or you do and you are straight up lying. Hint, it isnt to find dirt on Bidens. We are supporting Ukraine in their war against Russian aggression. That is the official and long standing goal. Trump, based on his personal agenda and choices prefered to assist Russia by holding off $$ and aid to the country fighting Putins regime. Stop the absurd spin its a joke.
Lying and projecting to make a point is as weak as it gets trump.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       02-21-2020, 6:37 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 95sn View Post
Delta is off his meds.
Vindman was on the call. Again, you cant change history unless we are Super Powers Dems.
Vindman and Taylor, Yovanovitch were all working towards correct US Foreign policy. Trump and his since indicted goons were working on trumps personal political endeavors AGAINST US policy. No need to come back and say the president creates foreign policy BS. Not when it is in his own personal benefit and against the goals of the US. You really dont seem to understand what we are trying to do in Ukraine do you. Or you do and you are straight up lying. Hint, it isnt to find dirt on Bidens. We are supporting Ukraine in their war against Russian aggression. That is the official and long standing goal. Trump, based on his personal agenda and choices prefered to assist Russia by holding off $$ and aid to the country fighting Putins regime. Stop the absurd spin its a joke.
Lying and projecting to make a point is as weak as it gets trump.
actually Vindman was on the phone call. I went back and looked at the testimony. What is US policy? Is it what the life long ambassadors say it is or is it what the President says it is? The US CONSTITUTION says it is what the President says it is. Not what the swamp says it is. Not what congress says it is. THE CONSTITUTION OF THE US SAYS THE PRESIDENT MAKES FOREIGN POLICY. All other arguments are not valid. It is made up stories by people like you.

Another thing, the testamony only said Burisma. The democrats added Biden.

So was Obama helping Russia by not giving actual military weapons or what was that doing? You realize that Ukraine did not even know the money was held up. That kind of means they did not need it. Usually you notice that type of money not being around if you really needed it.

Tell me what we are trying to do in Ukraine considering before any of this, you could not even pick Ukraine out on a map?

Are you going to go on record that you don't want Russia to launch our astronauts into space, help with our joint space station, or them to continue to sell us their uranium?
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       02-21-2020, 6:40 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
link please.



And that's the deep state's fault, not Pompeo's fault for hiring a Ukraine supporter who told Pompeo he was a Ukraine supporter and that he'd only take the job on the condition that he continue to advocate for Ukraine? Seems like if that were a problem, the thing to do is cross him off the list and move on to the next person, not blame him for (gasp!) doing what he said he was going to do.
Vindman was on the call. I went back and watched the testimony. Still a weasel who was used.

I don't blame him, it is what it is for the record. It proves my point. He is more concerned for the Ukraine than for US policy as given to the President by the Constitution.
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Texas       02-21-2020, 6:40 AM Reply   
Yes, everyone knows he was on the phone call. It's called a fact. Only liars like you and the trash you listen to and read try and say he wasn't, because you know enough people will believe it.

You are still lying, per the white house's own memo Trump said QUOTE:

"Thereís a lot of talk about Bidenís son, what Biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that, so whatever you can do with the attorney general would be great"

Last edited by pesos; 02-21-2020 at 6:43 AM.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       02-21-2020, 6:51 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by pesos View Post
Yes, everyone know he was on the phone call. It's called a fact. Only liars like you and the trash you listen to and read try and say he wasn't, because you know enough people will believe it.

You are still lying, per the white house's own memo Trump said QUOTE:

"Thereís a lot of talk about Bidenís son, what Biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that, so whatever you can do with the attorney general would be great"
Liars like me huh. You certainly are a brave typist

You mean liars like democrats who try and say that investigations has to do with Biden's. Biden can brag that he stopped the investigations and Trump wants the investigations and asked Ukraine to work with the Attorney General. Not illegal and should happen. Why did the VP stop the investigations. If you were not so partisan, you would want that too. Ol Joe does not seem to interested in answering these questions. Even said he would not show up in Congress if called to answer the question.

At the end of the day, the only person in this conversation testified that Trump wanted nothing in return.

He is still your president and will continue to be your president as your party has clearly turned anti-American and socialist. Your arguments have always been of that nature too. Good luck with your fits and rage.
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Texas       02-21-2020, 6:56 AM Reply   
Nothing brave about it. You continue to peddle falsehoods.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       02-21-2020, 7:05 AM Reply   
So where are you getting this stuff fed to you Delta:

Which is funny because when push came to shove, good ol Vindman testified under oath that he in FACT did not hear the conversation. He in FACT heard about it from other people talking about it. As it turns, they were fed a narrative by democrat operatives about they wanted the conversation to be about. That was his testamony under oath. He chose to get himself into much more of the politics than someone of his rank ever should have. If he did not actually hear a conversation, he as a career military guy should have never got his nose into it.

I can't believe that you'd have misremembered that much detail by yourself?
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       02-21-2020, 7:07 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by pesos View Post
Nothing brave about it. You continue to peddle falsehoods.
Na. I admitted that Vidman was on the call. I put it on record. You on the other hand have put it on record that you are aligned with the democrats on the destruction of our constitution, open border policy and arguing against all things America on the world stage. You are part of the people who are ushering in the new socialist party.

I bet you love the civil war within the democrat party right now. Moderates vs the Socialists. I am sure your Socialists will win because you are the most violent. That will leave plenty of democrats without a home. They will either stay home or switch parties after a while. That is why the socialist side of the party launched their impeach Trump campaign back in 2017. They knew in order to get the socialist agenda through, it would require them to seed to the useful idiots (you 5 know who you are) that all things Trump is bad and that the only way is for them to unite behind the Socialists because Trump is worse. Make know mistake. You and your socialist peers have taken over the democrat party. Bravo on your anti Trump campaign, you had more than 15 minutes with this. Say good bye to the old Dems, hello socialists as you wanted. Now what do you do with the 45% dems who are not into socialism. You already are losing the ones who are not into identity politics.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       02-21-2020, 7:11 AM Reply   
you realize that portraying people as socialists is "identity politics," right?
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       02-21-2020, 7:12 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
So where are you getting this stuff fed to you Delta:

Which is funny because when push came to shove, good ol Vindman testified under oath that he in FACT did not hear the conversation. He in FACT heard about it from other people talking about it. As it turns, they were fed a narrative by democrat operatives about they wanted the conversation to be about. That was his testamony under oath. He chose to get himself into much more of the politics than someone of his rank ever should have. If he did not actually hear a conversation, he as a career military guy should have never got his nose into it.

I can't believe that you'd have misremembered that much detail by yourself?
Maybe I was thinking of the ambassador. One of them testified that he has never even spoke to Trump in his life, yet he had all the answers on what he was doing. Was that Sonland? I don't remember every nuance now because it was all lies from the get go. Not interested in keeping all the nuance in my mind over a democrat lie. All you need to know is they have campaigned for a impeachment since 2017. It is the public record. Never ever heard such a thing in my life from elected officials. Any honest person knows their is motivation to make a talking point fit a narrative.

Now that it is clear the democrats are going full on socialists, now I can see why Pelosi caved too it. Once Bernie wins, you will now have your new face of the party. Matter of fact he won last time but was cheated out of it. He will win going away this time and the party leadership knew this. Pelosi went along with the radicals so she does not get steam rolled.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       02-21-2020, 7:14 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
you realize that portraying people as socialists is "identity politics," right?
Considering it is actually a political position I would say no. You being white or black or what ever and stating that as a reason for how you act and what laws we should pass (which should be illegal) is identity politics. Socialism has stated goals and is a choice.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       02-21-2020, 7:17 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
you realize that portraying people as socialists is "identity politics," right?
So, let's rehash this. Is Biden Trumps political rival? Seems to me he is not even Bernie's rival at this point.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       02-21-2020, 7:24 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
you realize that portraying people as socialists is "identity politics," right?
You like to think you are moderate. How does it feel to be steam rolled by the socialists? Must suck to not have something to believe in anymore? You can always get yourself some religion. Do you feel used to go along with a socialist concocted plan only to find out it was useless and that it was only done to help usher in the socialist part of party? Where else in history has socialist made up false narratives in order to get the masses to vote them into power? Huh...I wonder where in ....history..... You are pretty good with this stuff. You tell us. I will hang up now and listen to your comments on the air.
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       02-21-2020, 7:31 AM Reply   
Go ahead, keep trying to inject stuff that is 100% irrelevant. It was last summer fool, not today. It doesnt change anything. Trump still said he wanted Bidens and the 2016 election investigated to get the $$.
https://www.factcheck.org/2019/10/tr...-perfect-call/

Virtually everything delta writes is incorrect, based on false claims or complete BS. Trying to make trump out to be a corruption fighter is hilarious. Do you need me to provide 20 or 30 or 40 examples of Trump corruption? 50?
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       02-21-2020, 7:55 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
Considering it is actually a political position I would say no. You being white or black or what ever and stating that as a reason for how you act and what laws we should pass (which should be illegal) is identity politics. Socialism has stated goals and is a choice.
gender
gay/straight
evangelical / catholic / muslim / athiest / flying spagetti monster
soccer mom
suburban voters
independents
felons
southern
east coast
coastal liberal elites
flyover country people
rich
poor
billionaire

these are all identities that are exploited/leveraged against one another by politicians for political gain.
Old     (dougr)      Join Date: Dec 2009       02-21-2020, 7:56 AM Reply   
SO if Bernie becomes the dem candidate. Would the democrats here vote for him? Curious if most common sense Americans would? Not the crazy, get naked on stage kids. actual, real, common sense adults?
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       02-21-2020, 8:02 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 95sn View Post
Go ahead, keep trying to inject stuff that is 100% irrelevant. It was last summer fool, not today. It doesnt change anything. Trump still said he wanted Bidens and the 2016 election investigated to get the $$.
https://www.factcheck.org/2019/10/tr...-perfect-call/

Virtually everything delta writes is incorrect, based on false claims or complete BS. Trying to make trump out to be a corruption fighter is hilarious. Do you need me to provide 20 or 30 or 40 examples of Trump corruption? 50?
You have provided plenty. So far the facts have you beat 3 years to zero. Who is the president again?

You started out your career on here lying about your political record only to offer up every single talking point to be the opposite. You did not even vote. You go on record admitting to felonies per Federal Law. You keep trying to pedal this Russia hoax. The irony of all ironies is, YOUR leading candidate actually honeymooned in the actual Soviet Russia, tells the stories of how great it is, and is ACTUALLY RUNNING on their historic platform. Yes. The Russians want Trump to win.

We have said it more than once. Those who protest too much......
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       02-21-2020, 8:05 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
gender
gay/straight
evangelical / catholic / muslim / athiest / flying spagetti monster
soccer mom
suburban voters
independents
felons
southern
east coast
coastal liberal elites
flyover country people
rich
poor
billionaire

these are all identities that are exploited/leveraged against one another by politicians for political gain.
Yet you did not mention one political system.
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       02-21-2020, 9:34 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
You have provided plenty. So far the facts have you beat 3 years to zero. Who is the president again?

You started out your career on here lying about your political record only to offer up every single talking point to be the opposite. You did not even vote. You go on record admitting to felonies per Federal Law. You keep trying to pedal this Russia hoax. The irony of all ironies is, YOUR leading candidate actually honeymooned in the actual Soviet Russia, tells the stories of how great it is, and is ACTUALLY RUNNING on their historic platform. Yes. The Russians want Trump to win.

We have said it more than once. Those who protest too much......
like I said 100% irrelevant.
Im still a registered R, still get mail from Ronna Daniels every week asking for $$ to support the impeached. The point of disclosing was to indicate my opinion of todays R's and where I came from. Yeah he is still the president, he is your impeached president. Where is the hoax about Russia? Did I say something that was untrue? I have backed up everything ive said. You on the other hand are proven to lie and misinterpret all the time.
Trying to make something of where a person went on their honeymoon over 30 years ago is pure trash. What is it even supposed to mean? He is in cahoots with the Russian Federation? Only stinky, unwashed Walmart shoppers are stupid enough to believe it's supposed to prove something. Where was your honeymoon?
If you think its an issue some here "protest too much" why do you not see it in the complainer in chief? Worlds biggest Snowflake. Daily whining about how much he is mistreated, his proven guilty associates were treated unfairly, the jurors were crooked, the judge crooked.... But trump doth protest too much? Did you miss what Roger stones Judge wrote? How wrong the president was to inject himself into it? Barr overstepping boundaries. Cover -up.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...onths-sentence

Quote:
ďThere was nothing unfair, phony, or disgraceful about the investigation or the prosecution,Ē she said.
Ö.in a **** you to trump.

Quote:
His sentence had nothing to do with ďwho his friends are or who his enemies are,Ē Jackson said. At issue, she explained, is only what he has been convicted of: attempting to sabotage a congressional investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election.
ďHe was not prosecuted for standing up for the president,Ē she said. ďHe was prosecuted for covering up for the president.Ē
Quote:
ďOf all the circumstances in this case, that may be the most pernicious,Ē Jackson said, in comments that quickly traveled far beyond the E Barrett Prettyman courthouse in Washington. ďThe truth still exists, the truth still matters.Ē
Stone stood unflinching, hands clasped in front of him, as she continued her excoriation.
ďRoger Stoneís insistence that it doesnít Ö his belligerence, his pride in his own lies, are a threat to our most fundamental institutions, to the very foundation of our democracy,Ē she said emphatically.
Quote:
ďThe defendant lied about a matter of great national and international significance. This is not campaign hi-jinks. This is not just Roger being Roger.Ē
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       02-21-2020, 10:03 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by dougr View Post
SO if Bernie becomes the dem candidate. Would the democrats here vote for him? Curious if most common sense Americans would? Not the crazy, get naked on stage kids. actual, real, common sense adults?

Doug I donít know whether youíd consider me a common sense adult or not (being a tax paying dem after all), but Iím going to answer your Q in good faith. Bernie isnít MY first, second, third, fourth or fifth choice. I really hope he doesnít get the nomination. I disagree with him fundamentally on several policy issues.

But yes, I will nevertheless vote for him if he is the guy. I believe Bernie is ethical and will not break the law or try to manipulate government for his own aggrandizement. I also think he will nominate Supreme Court justices whose values align with mine.

Some of his crazier plans, like Medicare for All, donít really worry me in the least because there is no plausible path to the dems gaining a filibuster proof majority in the Senate (let alone a majority of any kind). McConnell isnít sending those sorts of plans through the senate. So the chance of real structural democratic socialist changes taking root are very very very small.

I prefer the risks of those plans and the benefit of a sane and ethical person in the White House to the alternative.

That said I think Bernie will be a complete disaster up and down the ticket in November and he could well lose the dems the house and give an unbound Trump a mandate to go nuts.

This is the position of my dem friends who I talk politics with too. I donít *personally* know anyone over 30 who would say Bernie is their first choice.

To give credit where itís due, Bernie has done an amazing job of organizing and has a great source among his millions of loyal followers for campaign cash. Heís really the only one with a war chest big enough to survive Super Tuesday and keep campaigning (aside from Bloomberg of course). Iím having a hard time seeing how he isnít the nominee, unfortunately.
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Texas       02-21-2020, 10:07 AM Reply   
Agreed on all points, except that Trump will go nuts regardless. Whether it's a 2nd term or just a lame duck couple of months, a further unbound Trump is going to be very ugly especially as time in office comes to a close and state prosecution nears.
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       02-21-2020, 10:16 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
Doug I donít know whether youíd consider me a common sense adult or not (being a tax paying dem after all), but Iím going to answer your Q in good faith. Bernie isnít MY first, second, third, fourth or fifth choice. I really hope he doesnít get the nomination. I disagree with him fundamentally on several policy issues.

But yes, I will nevertheless vote for him if he is the guy. I believe Bernie is ethical and will not break the law or try to manipulate government for his own aggrandizement. I also think he will nominate Supreme Court justices whose values align with mine.

Some of his crazier plans, like Medicare for All, donít really worry me in the least because there is no plausible path to the dems gaining a filibuster proof majority in the Senate (let alone a majority of any kind). McConnell isnít sending those sorts of plans through the senate. So the chance of real structural democratic socialist changes taking root are very very very small.

I prefer the risks of those plans and the benefit of a sane and ethical person in the White House to the alternative.

That said I think Bernie will be a complete disaster up and down the ticket in November and he could well lose the dems the house and give an unbound Trump a mandate to go nuts.

This is the position of my dem friends who I talk politics with too. I donít *personally* know anyone over 30 who would say Bernie is their first choice.

To give credit where itís due, Bernie has done an amazing job of organizing and has a great source among his millions of loyal followers for campaign cash. Heís really the only one with a war chest big enough to survive Super Tuesday and keep campaigning (aside from Bloomberg of course). Iím having a hard time seeing how he isnít the nominee, unfortunately.
Probably very similar thoughts of the 70-75% of Dems who arnt into Bernie. Its weird how most dems arnt into Bernie but too many votes to divide on Warren, Pete, Klobuchar.... If the field slims down soon (like today lol) someone else has a shot but it looks like Bernie.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       02-21-2020, 10:43 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by pesos View Post
Agreed on all points, except that Trump will go nuts regardless. Whether it's a 2nd term or just a lame duck couple of months, a further unbound Trump is going to be very ugly especially as time in office comes to a close and state prosecution nears.
Oh I fear that's really just the beginning of the beginning. Unlike other former POTUSes, I don't see Trump fading into the woodwork to give a speech here or there and make a reserved comment on the state of political affairs when things get really out of whack. I think he's going to want to be front and center in the spotlight forever. he's going to be influencing the system long after he's "gone."
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       02-21-2020, 11:38 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 95sn View Post
like I said 100% irrelevant.
Im still a registered R, still get mail from Ronna Daniels every week asking for $$ to support the impeached. The point of disclosing was to indicate my opinion of todays R's and where I came from. Yeah he is still the president, he is your impeached president. Where is the hoax about Russia? Did I say something that was untrue? I have backed up everything ive said. You on the other hand are proven to lie and misinterpret all the time.
Trying to make something of where a person went on their honeymoon over 30 years ago is pure trash. What is it even supposed to mean? He is in cahoots with the Russian Federation? Only stinky, unwashed Walmart shoppers are stupid enough to believe it's supposed to prove something. Where was your honeymoon?
If you think its an issue some here "protest too much" why do you not see it in the complainer in chief? Worlds biggest Snowflake. Daily whining about how much he is mistreated, his proven guilty associates were treated unfairly, the jurors were crooked, the judge crooked.... But trump doth protest too much? Did you miss what Roger stones Judge wrote? How wrong the president was to inject himself into it? Barr overstepping boundaries. Cover -up.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...onths-sentence

Ö.in a **** you to trump.
You can also call yourself a woman, but it does not change the science behind X and Y chromosomes. Of course your party is a science denier of that, but I digress. Just because you registered that way does not make you in any way shape or form a Republican. I have not heard a single policy position that you have said out loud that has been Republican in 50 years. Not sure why you registered that way, but you certainly don't sound that way there Martha.

So he is impeached. You are a poo poo head. Big deal. Only the democrats voted to Impeach in the first place. It will go down as a huge political blunder. You don't even see the party being stolen out from under the actual democrats. All started when the only people who were anti Iraq war were the radical democrats. All other positions where failures. So in order to get power back the party elected the then radicals to have people who can say they were never for the war so they had a policy difference that was a winner. Now they got suckered into this stupid impeachment and guess what? It was a ruse again. The radicals just took another pound of flesh out of the democrat party. You are now full on socialists.

Where did I honeymoon? Never had one. Could never afford a big trip. I am a working stiff. I got to enjoy a few good years post marriage until the state of California got tired of regular people having cash in their pockets and started to screw them too.

As far as Bernie goes. You really think a socialist who honeymoons at our then arch enemies country is not trash? A American politician doing that is not trash? Someone who happens to openly share their concept of form of government is to be trusted? That guy? IF someone is in cohoots, I am pretty sure it would be the guy who actually loves Russia and shares their historical political system. You don't think the Russians would not like a guy like that?

You have not backed up anything. If you backed up anything, then Trump would not be in office now would he? Only thing you have is your and your kinds labels. Sorry little world you live in.

Roger Stone. Another purgery Trap set by the crooked FBI under Comey. Funny, the judge said that the initial sentencing recommendation was way to harsh. The jury foreman admitted to being a democrat activist who actively protested against Trump, was for the prosecution and happens to be a lawyer. I am pretty sure that guy is going to get a new trial. Again, you don't care about the rule of law. That is why you are a dangerous radical. Love your little walmart people quip. Also love your other sexist quips about women. Nothing like proving over and over to being a sexist elitist dangerous socialist.
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       02-21-2020, 11:40 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 95sn View Post
like I said 100% irrelevant.
Im still a registered R, still get mail from Ronna Daniels every week asking for $$ to support the impeached. The point of disclosing was to indicate my opinion of todays R's and where I came from. Yeah he is still the president, he is your impeached president. Where is the hoax about Russia? Did I say something that was untrue? I have backed up everything ive said. You on the other hand are proven to lie and misinterpret all the time.
Trying to make something of where a person went on their honeymoon over 30 years ago is pure trash. What is it even supposed to mean? He is in cahoots with the Russian Federation? Only stinky, unwashed Walmart shoppers are stupid enough to believe it's supposed to prove something. Where was your honeymoon?
If you think its an issue some here "protest too much" why do you not see it in the complainer in chief? Worlds biggest Snowflake. Daily whining about how much he is mistreated, his proven guilty associates were treated unfairly, the jurors were crooked, the judge crooked.... But trump doth protest too much? Did you miss what Roger stones Judge wrote? How wrong the president was to inject himself into it? Barr overstepping boundaries. Cover -up.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...onths-sentence

….in a **** you to trump.
I came home from work, cracked a nice IPA and read today’s comments. Man! You have really gotten your as$ handed to you today. Thanks for the free entertainment. I owe you one.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       02-21-2020, 11:41 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
Oh I fear that's really just the beginning of the beginning. Unlike other former POTUSes, I don't see Trump fading into the woodwork to give a speech here or there and make a reserved comment on the state of political affairs when things get really out of whack. I think he's going to want to be front and center in the spotlight forever. he's going to be influencing the system long after he's "gone."
You mean like Obama staying in washington and organizing resistance movements?
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       02-21-2020, 11:47 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by markj View Post
I came home from work, cracked a nice IPA and read todayís comments. Man! You have really gotten your as$ handed to you today. Thanks for the free entertainment. I owe you one.
Maybe him and Bloomberg can go teach some of those detestable Walmart shoppers how to grow plants because well.... it's easy...
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       02-21-2020, 11:51 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
Doug I donít know whether youíd consider me a common sense adult or not (being a tax paying dem after all), but Iím going to answer your Q in good faith. Bernie isnít MY first, second, third, fourth or fifth choice. I really hope he doesnít get the nomination. I disagree with him fundamentally on several policy issues.

But yes, I will nevertheless vote for him if he is the guy. I believe Bernie is ethical and will not break the law or try to manipulate government for his own aggrandizement. I also think he will nominate Supreme Court justices whose values align with mine.

Some of his crazier plans, like Medicare for All, donít really worry me in the least because there is no plausible path to the dems gaining a filibuster proof majority in the Senate (let alone a majority of any kind). McConnell isnít sending those sorts of plans through the senate. So the chance of real structural democratic socialist changes taking root are very very very small.

I prefer the risks of those plans and the benefit of a sane and ethical person in the White House to the alternative.

That said I think Bernie will be a complete disaster up and down the ticket in November and he could well lose the dems the house and give an unbound Trump a mandate to go nuts.

This is the position of my dem friends who I talk politics with too. I donít *personally* know anyone over 30 who would say Bernie is their first choice.

To give credit where itís due, Bernie has done an amazing job of organizing and has a great source among his millions of loyal followers for campaign cash. Heís really the only one with a war chest big enough to survive Super Tuesday and keep campaigning (aside from Bloomberg of course). Iím having a hard time seeing how he isnít the nominee, unfortunately.
Don't worry. Your party is doing a great job of telling regular non city people that they are stupid and detestable and that if you elect democrats they will finally have someone to tell them how much of anything they can buy and do with the money they will allow them to have. I am sure those votes will tally right up.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       02-21-2020, 12:02 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
Doug I donít know whether youíd consider me a common sense adult or not (being a tax paying dem after all), but Iím going to answer your Q in good faith. Bernie isnít MY first, second, third, fourth or fifth choice. I really hope he doesnít get the nomination. I disagree with him fundamentally on several policy issues.

But yes, I will nevertheless vote for him if he is the guy. I believe Bernie is ethical and will not break the law or try to manipulate government for his own aggrandizement. I also think he will nominate Supreme Court justices whose values align with mine.

Some of his crazier plans, like Medicare for All, donít really worry me in the least because there is no plausible path to the dems gaining a filibuster proof majority in the Senate (let alone a majority of any kind). McConnell isnít sending those sorts of plans through the senate. So the chance of real structural democratic socialist changes taking root are very very very small.

I prefer the risks of those plans and the benefit of a sane and ethical person in the White House to the alternative.

That said I think Bernie will be a complete disaster up and down the ticket in November and he could well lose the dems the house and give an unbound Trump a mandate to go nuts.

This is the position of my dem friends who I talk politics with too. I donít *personally* know anyone over 30 who would say Bernie is their first choice.

To give credit where itís due, Bernie has done an amazing job of organizing and has a great source among his millions of loyal followers for campaign cash. Heís really the only one with a war chest big enough to survive Super Tuesday and keep campaigning (aside from Bloomberg of course). Iím having a hard time seeing how he isnít the nominee, unfortunately.
Another disgusting thing. Your party is going to elect a socialist, but (irony alert) you are relying on the Republicans to save you from the guy that you guys are going to vote for president of the Untied States. Jesus Fing Christ man. Do you even hear the words in your head as you wrote that? You like most democrats have one foot into being a Republican with comments like that.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       02-21-2020, 12:06 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
Don't worry. Your party is doing a great job of telling regular non city people that they are stupid and detestable and that if you elect democrats they will finally have someone to tell them how much of anything they can buy and do with the money they will allow them to have. I am sure those votes will tally right up.


Oh believe me delta when warren said at the debate that she wanted to end mining on public lands I was like WTF? Being able to exploit our natural resources is a national security issue (so is not exporting them beyond our borders). Ending all mining just means all resources must be acquired from trading partners and makes us susceptible to being messed with.

I know you think all of us wear a Che Guevara T and ANTIFA mask when we practice tire burning on the weekends, but thereís more to dems than young Turks. Just like my R neighbors who think trump is a complete jackknob but like his scotus nominees so they will continue to vote for him.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       02-21-2020, 12:07 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
Another disgusting thing. Your party is going to elect a socialist, but (irony alert) you are relying on the Republicans to save you from the guy that you guys are going to vote for president of the Untied States. Jesus Fing Christ man. Do you even hear the words in your head as you wrote that? You like most democrats have one foot into being a Republican with comments like that.


Itís called being a moderate and a pragmatist, Delta.
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       02-21-2020, 12:27 PM Reply   
Quote:
You have not backed up anything. If you backed up anything, then Trump would not be in office now would he?
He has the complicit GOP senators who tho they knew he was guilty of everything and the house proved the case, voted in bad faith and against their oaths. They said it before they began the cover-up "trial". Need their quotes for proof? got em handy.

Quote:
Roger Stone. Another purgery Trap set by the crooked FBI under Comey. Funny, the judge said that the initial sentencing recommendation was way to harsh. The jury foreman admitted to being a democrat activist who actively protested against Trump, was for the prosecution and happens to be a lawyer. I am pretty sure that guy is going to get a new trial. Again, you don't care about the rule of law. That is why you are a dangerous radical. Love your little walmart people quip. Also love your other sexist quips about women. Nothing like proving over and over to being a sexist elitist dangerous socialist.
How many times in history do you think a republican was sitting as a juror in a democrats trial? Every single day. The other 11 also voted guilty. Are you proposing that all jurors should vote party? Yeah that ought to make for some fair trials. Comey was investigated by the republicans, Barrs people, again they found nothing and proves your lying again. Comey is a republican fool. Probably why he kept secret that trump was under investigation during the campaign in 2016 but only disclosed Clinton was being investigated, several times. See, when you look at the facts (something trumpers dont have the capacity or the desire to do) every one of your points is destroyed. The only one not caring about the rule of law is your impeached one and all his knuckle dragging followers who dont see the damage to our institutions. Need proof? Im loaded.


Marge, your take on delta's posts remind me of the knight in monty pytonÖ. Tis only a flesh wound.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       02-21-2020, 4:35 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
Roger Stone. Another purgery Trap
You know a fall safe way to avoid a "Purgery trap"? Not be a pathological liar. Lol, what's happened to conservatives these days, they used to stand for universal truths and morals. Trumps changed that.
Old     (dougr)      Join Date: Dec 2009       02-21-2020, 11:59 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
Doug I don’t know whether you’d consider me a common sense adult or not (being a tax paying dem after all), but I’m going to answer your Q in good faith. Bernie isn’t MY first, second, third, fourth or fifth choice. I really hope he doesn’t get the nomination. I disagree with him fundamentally on several policy issues.

But yes, I will nevertheless vote for him if he is the guy. I believe Bernie is ethical and will not break the law or try to manipulate government for his own aggrandizement. I also think he will nominate Supreme Court justices whose values align with mine.

Some of his crazier plans, like Medicare for All, don’t really worry me in the least because there is no plausible path to the dems gaining a filibuster proof majority in the Senate (let alone a majority of any kind). McConnell isn’t sending those sorts of plans through the senate. So the chance of real structural democratic socialist changes taking root are very very very small.

I prefer the risks of those plans and the benefit of a sane and ethical person in the White House to the alternative.

That said I think Bernie will be a complete disaster up and down the ticket in November and he could well lose the dems the house and give an unbound Trump a mandate to go nuts.

This is the position of my dem friends who I talk politics with too. I don’t *personally* know anyone over 30 who would say Bernie is their first choice.

To give credit where it’s due, Bernie has done an amazing job of organizing and has a great source among his millions of loyal followers for campaign cash. He’s really the only one with a war chest big enough to survive Super Tuesday and keep campaigning (aside from Bloomberg of course). I’m having a hard time seeing how he isn’t the nominee, unfortunately.

The reason I asked this, is I am voting for Trump, not because I am a republican, because, "like you have stated" There is no perfect, but I cannot see voting for someone who would intentionally destroy out economy, trash any social order, open the flood gages to public laziness, and crash the extreme low employment. 3.5% is really zero, as there are unemployable people by default, that cannot control that. Also, all financial industries would suffer.

I also do not want to be a socialist, and all my socialist friends, from socialist countries say, they don't want to be either, and they say anyone who says they do are Full of **** and lying.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       02-22-2020, 2:08 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by dougr View Post
The reason I asked this, is I am voting for Trump, not because I am a republican, because, "like you have stated" There is no perfect, but I cannot see voting for someone who would intentionally destroy out economy, trash any social order, open the flood gages to public laziness, and crash the extreme low employment. 3.5% is really zero, as there are unemployable people by default, that cannot control that. Also, all financial industries would suffer.

I also do not want to be a socialist, and all my socialist friends, from socialist countries say, they don't want to be either, and they say anyone who says they do are Full of **** and lying.
I watch pretty closely and I haven't read anything about a candidate wanting to intentionally destroy the economy, destroy public order, or open the flood gates to public laziness. Nobody is going to "make you be a socialist."

There's the thing tho... even if all of that were true, Americans are pretty fickle and if it turns out that a four year administration with the other party in power in at least one chamber of congress is able to crash the economy, chances are both houses of congress will be in opposition party hands at the mid-terms and we'll vote the bums out at year 4 and start over. Americans tend to really like divided government.

Seems to me that we can be pretty confident that another Trump administration would continue like the current one, with a continued erosion of the rule of law, inappropriate pressure on the DOJ, and use of the pardon power to let Trump's criminal henchmen off the hook even if they are found guilty. We can expect the President to mock rivals for their physical appearance, voice, mannerisms, disability or gender, just like a middle school bully. We can expect an erosion of the free press. We can expect further cozying up to the world's dictators and authoritarians. We can expect further erosion of relationships with allies that have been built up for decades. We can expect ridiculously huge budget deficits. I don't think any of this is hyperbole -- it's the track record the President boasts about and the one he'll run on. It's not for me, and I'm not willing to look the other way based solely on current economic numbers. The economy is cyclical and what goes up will come down and will go up again and then down again and so forth.
Old     (dougr)      Join Date: Dec 2009       02-23-2020, 1:17 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
I watch pretty closely and I haven't read anything about a candidate wanting to intentionally destroy the economy, destroy public order, or open the flood gates to public laziness. Nobody is going to "make you be a socialist."

There's the thing tho... even if all of that were true, Americans are pretty fickle and if it turns out that a four year administration with the other party in power in at least one chamber of congress is able to crash the economy, chances are both houses of congress will be in opposition party hands at the mid-terms and we'll vote the bums out at year 4 and start over. Americans tend to really like divided government.

Seems to me that we can be pretty confident that another Trump administration would continue like the current one, with a continued erosion of the rule of law, inappropriate pressure on the DOJ, and use of the pardon power to let Trump's criminal henchmen off the hook even if they are found guilty. We can expect the President to mock rivals for their physical appearance, voice, mannerisms, disability or gender, just like a middle school bully. We can expect an erosion of the free press. We can expect further cozying up to the world's dictators and authoritarians. We can expect further erosion of relationships with allies that have been built up for decades. We can expect ridiculously huge budget deficits. I don't think any of this is hyperbole -- it's the track record the President boasts about and the one he'll run on. It's not for me, and I'm not willing to look the other way based solely on current economic numbers. The economy is cyclical and what goes up will come down and will go up again and then down again and so forth.
You think Bernies plan is going to lower the deficit? Put more money in the pockets of americans, fix the worlds problems? Or is this more a I hate Trump, and anyone, no matter how bad they could be, is the candidate for me approach?
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       02-23-2020, 7:55 AM Reply   
Seems like the pols have given up on deficit reduction, donít you think? Trumpís deficits are insane and the economy is booming. So yeah, I guess if we are going to spend money we donít have, is it better spent cutting taxes for billionaires or for programs for people who are just getting by? In a super hot economy where the wealthy are doing really well is it reasonable to not be able to pay for medical care on a full time salary?

I donít have a great answer to those questions but it sure seems like there are a lot more people living on the edge than there are billionaires.

The same middle Americans who voted for trump on his promise to bring back manufacturing jobs are the employed people who canít pay for medical care.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       02-23-2020, 9:41 AM Reply   
Your politicians are letting you down. NZ has publicly provided options for health and education which are pretty good, runs a budget surplus (Yes we are currently reducing our public debt in anticipation of the next world recession), currently has a GDP growth of 3% and has a debt to GDP of 20%. (USA is over 100% !!!)

We have a universal sales tax of 15%, and a income tax rate up to 33% depending on income. Company tax rate is 30%. In general no deductions or offsets for tax, "Doing your taxes" is not a sport in NZ like it is in the US and companies pay there fair share. You can label that "Socialism" if you like but it works, provides for the needy and gives space for people to achieve if they are talented and hard working.

Yes we are a small country but economies of scale should make it harder to be self sufficient not easier. Long story short your politicians and political system is serving you poorly.

Last edited by ralph; 02-23-2020 at 9:43 AM. Reason: Edited out "free" health and education, free is a right wing talking point, the public pays for it.
Old     (dougr)      Join Date: Dec 2009       02-23-2020, 9:44 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
Seems like the pols have given up on deficit reduction, donít you think? Trumpís deficits are insane and the economy is booming. So yeah, I guess if we are going to spend money we donít have, is it better spent cutting taxes for billionaires or for programs for people who are just getting by? In a super hot economy where the wealthy are doing really well is it reasonable to not be able to pay for medical care on a full time salary?

I donít have a great answer to those questions but it sure seems like there are a lot more people living on the edge than there are billionaires.

The same middle Americans who voted for trump on his promise to bring back manufacturing jobs are the employed people who canít pay for medical care.
Aprox 10% of Americans are not insured, either due to low income jobs (not well fare, those people are covered) or self employed jobs. so 9 out of 10 are insured, all a different levels. in 2010 unemployment was aprox 9%, then in the 6.5 range around 15/16. Now aprox 3.5

to be fair, the amount of uninsured are pretty close, over the past 10 years. but the number of unemployed is half to 3x less. By increasing the corp tax back, do you think companies will keep employees?

If you double the amount of your personal home operating budget, would you cut the house cleaning service? Very basic fundamentals. Maybe some keep the house service, and put less away or sell one of the cars etc etc
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       02-23-2020, 11:42 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by dougr View Post
Aprox 10% of Americans are not insured, either due to low income jobs (not well fare, those people are covered) or self employed jobs. so 9 out of 10 are insured, all a different levels. in 2010 unemployment was aprox 9%, then in the 6.5 range around 15/16. Now aprox 3.5

to be fair, the amount of uninsured are pretty close, over the past 10 years. but the number of unemployed is half to 3x less. By increasing the corp tax back, do you think companies will keep employees?

If you double the amount of your personal home operating budget, would you cut the house cleaning service? Very basic fundamentals. Maybe some keep the house service, and put less away or sell one of the cars etc etc
Do those "insured" numbers count folks covered with medicare and medicaid? Probably, as the numbers I googled up suggest that those two programs cover about 35% of the population currently. So is it really impossible to get that last 10% covered?

Also you've got to to remember that only about 20% of the United States' population voted for Trump. You are saying that there's a group comprising 10% that's uninsured. Surely that includes children, but assume even half (5%) are voters. I'm sure you can see how that math works.

I'm not sure what you mean by the "operating budget" example. Are you trying to say things will be tough if we end deficit spending?
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       02-23-2020, 11:46 AM Reply   
I could totally get behind eliminating corporate taxes though. Corporate profits should be taxed when they get paid to shareholders and when they get paid out as salary. And they ARE taxed indirectly as capital gains when the share value increases and shares are sold. Why is the money inside the enterprise subject to tax when it's out circulating in the economy?
Old     (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       02-24-2020, 1:48 AM Reply   
Profits on C corps are taxed at the corporate level and then taxed again as income to the shareholder when they get dividends. Thats why a lot of small businesses moved to S corps.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       02-24-2020, 3:47 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by psudy View Post
Profits on C corps are taxed at the corporate level and then taxed again as income to the shareholder when they get dividends. Thats why a lot of small businesses moved to S corps.


Right I understand that. But what about publicly traded corps. What tax the c at all? Just tax the $$$ as they come out via salary or dividends.
Old     (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       02-24-2020, 4:10 AM Reply   
They already tax the salaries and dividends. Why would the government want to give up on the corporate side too? If anything I would be for less tax on Salary and dividends to the shareholder(see double taxation) and higher tax on the profits at the corporate level.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       02-24-2020, 5:17 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by psudy View Post
They already tax the salaries and dividends. Why would the government want to give up on the corporate side too? If anything I would be for less tax on Salary and dividends to the shareholder(see double taxation) and higher tax on the profits at the corporate level.
Why tho? The argument I always hear is that corporations are the engines of the economy. As long as profits are inside the corporation and are being retained for corporate purposes, no people are spending those profits. If they get distributed to people, tax them. If they get paid as wages because the corporation has the ability hire more people, great -- they'll be taxed there. And if the value of the corporation increases because it's sitting on a cash horde, that's great too because stockholders will pay capital gains taxes when they trade their shares.

The above applies to public corps anyhow. I'm sure my plan could be gamed for privately held corps.
Old     (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       02-24-2020, 6:49 AM Reply   
You can only retain so much until you get hit with accumulated earnings tax.
Old     (dougr)      Join Date: Dec 2009       02-24-2020, 11:16 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
Do those "insured" numbers count folks covered with medicare and medicaid? Probably, as the numbers I googled up suggest that those two programs cover about 35% of the population currently. So is it really impossible to get that last 10% covered?

Also you've got to to remember that only about 20% of the United States' population voted for Trump. You are saying that there's a group comprising 10% that's uninsured. Surely that includes children, but assume even half (5%) are voters. I'm sure you can see how that math works.

I'm not sure what you mean by the "operating budget" example. Are you trying to say things will be tough if we end deficit spending?
The uninsured are not medicaid or medicare. they are all in the insured programs. All medicaid and medicare and welfare are under government coverage or assistance. see the same doctors as well do but pay nothing, nothing. the last 10% should or could be now, either quit self employment, and become w2, buy it, just like we do, or they fall in the grey zone, pre existing or special needs. I want everyone to have health care, but I don't want the government controlling my care. They have enough problems running the VA system, Sad, but even with outside services, its still a mess.

This is not about voters, it s about facts. While 2008 was nearing 10% unemployed, we had 10% not insured. We have somewhere in the same range with 1/3 less unemployment. I don't know the statistics of choice. Some choose not to pay obama care now, vs the tax penalty, some may be young and gambling, some are bankrupt and go to emergency facilities and never pay the bill. Etc Etc
Old     (dougr)      Join Date: Dec 2009       02-24-2020, 11:20 AM Reply   
BTW, Obama care allowed everyone to have health care, Why did it not work? Why did those who had no coverage, still decide to not have coverage? Why does my, friends sister, never pay her bills, never pays her medical bills, and never cares, She cuts hair, all cash, when sick , she go's to emergency room. They bill her, she ignores it., has no credit anyway, rents and gets the same care. When she get perceptions, she go's on welfare, does not claim any income. Easy system.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       02-25-2020, 2:22 AM Reply   
Doug where are you getting your numbers? According to people whose job it is to track these things, I'm seeing that the raw number of uninsured was about 44 million in 2008 (before obamacare) and about 25 million in 2018.... which doesn't account for population increase over that period.

If you are asking why some people won't buy insurance, ask yourself this: if funding public education were optional what would the "take rate" be? Many people don't have kids, and some will never have them. Why do we make them pay for something they'll never use?
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       02-25-2020, 5:02 AM Reply   
No problem with the rule of law party. Nothing to see here, move along.
https://www.commondreams.org/news/20...sburg-recusals
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       02-25-2020, 5:44 AM Reply   
Whose Truth? She should not be making public decorations like a politician outside of court. That's what happens when you appoint a pure academic to the court instead of a judge.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       02-25-2020, 5:46 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
Doug where are you getting your numbers? According to people whose job it is to track these things, I'm seeing that the raw number of uninsured was about 44 million in 2008 (before obamacare) and about 25 million in 2018.... which doesn't account for population increase over that period.

If you are asking why some people won't buy insurance, ask yourself this: if funding public education were optional what would the "take rate" be? Many people don't have kids, and some will never have them. Why do we make them pay for something they'll never use?
300 million people, that is less than 10% uninsured. Obamacare did not insure people for day to day aches and pains medicine. I am sure did, most only got the "liability" coverage. Did not really change anything but take money out of a poor persons hand.
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       02-25-2020, 6:16 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
Whose Truth? She should not be making public decorations like a politician outside of court. That's what happens when you appoint a pure academic to the court instead of a judge.
Exactly! Her comments showed just how badly we need to fix the plague of liberal, activist judges. So glad Trump is on the case.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       02-25-2020, 7:53 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
Seems like the pols have given up on deficit reduction, donít you think? Trumpís deficits are insane and the economy is booming. So yeah, I guess if we are going to spend money we donít have, is it better spent cutting taxes for billionaires or for programs for people who are just getting by? In a super hot economy where the wealthy are doing really well is it reasonable to not be able to pay for medical care on a full time salary?

I donít have a great answer to those questions but it sure seems like there are a lot more people living on the edge than there are billionaires.

The same middle Americans who voted for trump on his promise to bring back manufacturing jobs are the employed people who canít pay for medical care.
So, about that. I believe Bernie's plans are up to 90 Trillion dollars for 10 years. That is the entire wealth held by the American public. Do people really think this all encompasing "wealth tax" is going to cover all these free give away programs? This isn't Oprah.

Unfortunately this is where democrats come off the rails. Not everyone is interesting in working. For years I have seen it in the Bay Area. You have one of the world richest areas ever. Jobs out the you know what, but you still have a large segment of the population who grew up and live exactly where the jobs are deciding not to participate. They have to import illegal slave labor to tech workers (even just low level assembly people) from across to out of the country to fill the positions. Not saying California is the only place, it is the only place that I have lived that you can make that choice. I have seen many families where I grew up that did what Doug has described. Just knew the system. Go from one program to the next. Knew how to work it and just making it was ok because they had a certain freedom to party without consequences.

How was the Nevada Coccus? Looks like Nevada Democrats are all in with the socialism.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       02-25-2020, 8:05 AM Reply   
Caucus was interesting. Nobody burned any tires in my precinct and of the 6 available delegates to the county convention, Amy got 2, and each of Pete, Joe, Liz and Bernie got 1.

So as for working or not... I'm not sure how provision of a public good, like medical care, would encourage people not to work. It's not money in your pocket, and it's not food stamps that you can go sell for beer money. It's a benefit you really only need if you need it, like fire or police. Why is it so offensive to cover that last 10%? I've never heard of anyone only working for insurance and if they didn't have it they'd quit. If that were true, why don't "free" school, police and fire make people lazy in the same way?

Of the $90T (I haven't seen that, but I'll assume it's true), how much are we currently projected to spend over the next 10 years between privately funded healthcare, copays, premiums, employer tax breaks, medicare, medicaid, etc? What makes the last uninsured 10% so expensive to cover?
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