wakesurfing on Vics??

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quote:

nothing wrong with driving 55

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if the speed limit is 65, then driving 55 is illegal.

yes it is. good job! Im assuming the original post assumed it wasnt a 65pmh, but im not going to get into a debate about that.

I'm sure Grant was referring to me. What did Grant say that I haven't said already? Why do you not want to ride near me, Ty? It appears as though I'm one of the few who treat everyone with EQUAL respect, not just the wakeboarders. It seems to me that many of you have the opinion that the only way to show proper respect to you is if I leave the area. A PUBLIC area, mind you. You don't want to share a public waterway with anyone other than another wakeboarder and you have absolutely no problem with asking someone to take their recreation elsewhere. And I'm the unreasonable one here?????

Would anyone care to respond directly to the question I posed quite a ways up?

"I make every attempt to minimize my impact on your recreation. How are you minimizing your impact on mine by asking me to move from a spot that we were previously sharing so you can have the spot for yourself (or those who are doing what you're doing)?"

this is a long thread.

Joe Absolutly not.. the speed limit is a set maximum speeed.. driving over that speed is illegal, driving under the speed limit is not illegal. people drive under the speed limit all the time. some people think 65 is to fast.. and thats fine and ok to drive.. but not in the left lane...

isaac, driving 55 in a 65 (under the speed limit) is illegal. it's called impeding the flow of traffic.

Swass,
in my opinion, some things are just more logical one way than they are an other way. To you, these same things are in no way more logical one way than the other.

Logically, I dont think tubers need glass to tube. Probably because anytime Ive ever lowered myself (jab jab) to tube, we do it for the pure fun of trying to get bucked off. Your kids do it for different reasons...apparently.

In the same sense, being a wakeboarder who has wakesurfed a couple times, I understand that smooth water is MUCH more important to me when on a wakeboard than on a surfboard... that being said, I dont wakesurf on smooth water or in the narrower channels here in az. Instead, I resort to the wide open chopped areas where I know wakeboarders arent in search of smooth water. Again, because I think this is logical.

So why do I not want to ride near you? Because you dont think logically and respectfully in my opinion. You're out for your benefit.... which Im sure is more fun than taking a quick moment to ask yourself if there is a better, more logical place to surf or tube, rather than the smooth water that wakeboarding, in my opinion, needs. You dont have to be offended by this, we're just 2 different people, luckily for me in 2 different states.

start getting the vehicle code book out and prove me wrong..

Typically when you are in a 65mph speed limit road they have minimum speed signs which are usually around 45mph.

vehicle code 22400(a) - impeding the flow of traffic

California Vehicle Codes 22400, 22400a, 22400b. You can drive too slow and break the law. Wow this thread rules!

thats not implying 55 in a 65.. thats more like 35 in 65.. your point is that driving 55 is illegal

(Message edited by extremeisaac on September 02, 2009)

is 55 slower than 65? would 55 in the fast lane impede traffic?

sheesh, just say you were proven wrong and move on.

http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/87668/730814.html?1251912555

your not impeding traffic by driving 55 in a 65 in the left lane.. theres lots of variables that would imply that.. if you can go around the person driving 55 with no problems then your not impeding traffic.. now if you have a 3 line highway and everyone is driving 55 causing a jam, then it is illegal.. but one person driving 55 in the left lane while everyone else is driving 65, you are not impeding flow of traffic...

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quote:

but one person driving 55 in the left lane while everyone else is driving 65

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dude...that's the very definition of impeding the flow of traffic.

impede: to interfere with or slow the progress of.

wrong...again Isaac.

this can go round and round all day long.. have fun tubing, surfing and drving 55..

is it really that hard for you to say you were wrong?

apparently it is part of being extreme is always being right.

thats it. im going home right now, gonna hook up the boat, hit the freeway going 40 mph in the fast lane. then ill launch the boat, head to vics pulling a tuber and wake surf the wrong direction, and after everybody is done, im going to do victory power turns for 20 minutes. then im going to tube back to the launch, then ill trailer my boat home at 40 in the fast lane again, laughing the whole way. muah hahahaha.....

you'd get a ticket for 2 violations: impeding the flow of traffic and driving w/ a trailer in the left most lane.

I didn't think it was necessary to justify what my kids enjoy doing, but maybe I do.

My youngest son is six. He's the evil tuber you so despise. Right now, tubing is one of his absolute favorite things to do. He likes to go outside the wake, but he doesn't like getting bashed around when he's out there.

If the middle of the lake is tolerable for him, of course we'll go out there. But if it's not, and it's his turn, I will take him for a spin through the cove (usually not too choppy) or along the dam (again, usually not too choppy). Before I do, I'll wait for a downed rider to get up or for a tuber to go through, or whatever the case may be. Here is where we part ways, I think: I do not think that "showing the proper respect" means that I have to tell my son that we can't go in those areas because they're already occupied by a boarder. In my opinion, that is an unreasonable expectation for a public waterway.

What is illogical about showing everyone the same amount of respect? In my opinion, it's illogical of you to expect some sort of preferential treatment simply because you have a wakeboard strapped to your feet.

I'm not trying to be an ass, but can you better explain to me why you feel I don't think logically or respectfully in your opinion? Perhaps you can do so by answering the question everyone has avoided thus far?

"You're out for your benefit...."

And you're not?????? Who benefits when you ask someone to leave a spot so you can better enjoy your recreation?

Very rarely do you hear of wakeboarders complain about fishermen. Why is that? Because they're just sitting there; they have no impact on your day, and they can't respond in kind when you throw rollers their way. Usually the only time wakeboarders complain is when they go rippin across the lake to another fishing spot. THAT impacts riding conditions, so of course it's a sore spot. How do you think grandpa and his grandson feel about riding out your rollers all day as you go by? I've seen many a wakeboarder point and laugh as they watch a fisherman lose his balance as they go by. But who cares, right? They don't have 1500 pounds of ballast they can use to mess with you, so #())_# em!

Everybody has an impact on everybody, and it's incumbent upon everybody to do all they can to minimize their impact on everybody else. That's called LIVING IN SOCIETY. Asking someone to leave maximizes your impact on others. I don't see what's illogical about that.

hahahahha, i got one of those left lane tickets pulling a boat once when i was in cali. I didnt even know it was illegal... crazy californians and your rules. jeesh.

daryl, just power turn around swass kids tubing on the glass and I'll be fine with it.

if you want glass, go earlier. that's how it's been done for years.

swassanator,


this is too simple- we disagree on what is logical and what is not. Listen, Im sure your kid is a great kid and Im sure he deserves to tube on pristine glass. I however would tell my little guy that we're going to tube on some not so perfect water because when we wakeboard we would want the wakesurfers and tubers to do the same. Call me crazy.

Im not out for myself bro... once again because you keep missing it, I would not drop in and wakesurf or tube on the calm part of the lake. I respect those that are doing a sport that is affected by outside influences (like huge rollers).

Please, try and understand that we're different and that having differing opinion are also part of "LIVING IN SOCIETY" as you edjumacated me previsouly.

I had no idea that wakesurfing had such a stigma attached to it. I can't help but wonder if it's a case of "Chevy sucks because I drive a Ford", or "I would never over pay for a SAN, I'm fine with my Supra, now I have more money for gas".

Just curious, Isacc, Nick, and Andy. Can you bitches even clear the wake on both sides? Or is it, heelside-to-tindy-to-case the wake-to-eat $#!t and blame it on someone else?

Just curious.

OK, don't answer the question then.

There's no hope for me and Grant, but I was genuinely interested in your viewpoint, with the hope that we could find some common ground, but "we disagree on what is logical and what is not" isn't a place we can start from.

Just out of curiosity, Isaac, if the consensus here had been that you're wrong, would you have stopped your practice of asking people to move?

I have said several times now that I make every attempt to minimize my impact on the recreation of those around me. I'll pose the question a third time: How are you minimizing your impact on mine by asking me to move from a spot that we were previously sharing so you can have the spot for yourself (or those who are doing what you're doing)?

Hey Mike, lets try to keep that kinda stuff out of this. How well anyone rides has no bearing on this debate.

So I'm kinda of scrollin through this thread...

"surf this, roller that, Vic this, Law that"

And then I come to Mr. Mike Armstrongs post and I LMFAO!!!! Mike, your post cracked me up!!

So, continue on...

Oh, and nobody likes Joe Umali either!

I never asked anyone to move.... I just questioned their choice to surf on Vics.. they made the decision to stop and wakeboard... they could have done whatever they wanted.. my wife was saying I was in the wrong for questioning what they were doing..

Mike? Bitches?? Sounds like someones a verbal abusage dad/husband.... feel sorry for whoever lives with you tough guy.

Joe/Ty.. sorry had to jump into a meeting.. but looking a litte closer I guess you could be right about the going to slow.. I would just question what that threshhold speed would be.. I dont think its 55 but.. if you want to go word for word I guess I would be wrong...

You have got to be kidding me Swass.
You say you make every attempt to minimize your impact on the recreation of those around you, yet we're arguing that you will not help minimize your impact on those around you. This is ludicrous. I first kind of threw in the argument towel when I realized that contrary to what you say, you dont really care about those around you...now Im pretty much done because Im getting dizzy going in a circle.

Have you ever heard of "we agree to disagree" ? That's where I'm at...actually, thats where I've been for I think the 3rd post in a row.

And in regards to this "question" I wont answer, I can scroll up and find several questions that weren't answered. I'll take a guess that its the one "what am I doing to help minimize the impact my impact on those around me?" Well, one more time...we can even holds hands on this one: I dont tube or surf on glass where boarders are. Now, beyond that, I can tell you multiple other ways in my life I respect others and avoid confrontation and , but Im done with this...

1000 miles of delta and you gotta try to tell someone where to ski or board or surf. #1 Last I checked the delta was a public waterway. #2 Someday you twenty somethings will get old and surfing becomes more fun then busting yourself up all the time on a wakeboard. # 3 If you don't like what's going on in an area when you arrive go somewhere else. Don't try to tell me how and where to enjoy my day, cuz afterall it is my day, not yours !!!

SWASS... CAN you even wake jump?.... I bet your old and washed up

^^ WTF?? thats F'd up dude.. Unless you personally know him and are cracking a joke.. thats really immature...

Isaac.. One post and you go after my family? I must have touched a nerve. Sorry, let me rephrase that from bitches to, "unpleasant people who like to complain".

Tough guy? I have never vibed anybody into putting one type of board away and taking another out!

Now, let's talk about your family. Your wife is right!

Do you really want a delta local's answer about telling them to do something else because thats what you do?

Here you go:

I think you coming on and calling people bitches right off the bat really shows character..

If you feel that my wife is right.. hey thats your opinion.. others agree.. others dont..It wouldnt be the first time she was right so it is what it is. If the people I talked to on the boat felt I was wrong and being a rooster sucker then they could have went on and continued doing what they were doing, its not like I held a gun to their head and forced them to strap a board on....

I like to wakeboard, surf and wakeskate, and my kids will get on a tube and I think theres a time and place for em all.. I might not be as good as you are at all of the above..but I dont mess up other peoples use of the sloughs for my own satisfaction..

OK, let's hold hands, Ty.

You say I don't respect others because I won't defer to wakeboarders when it comes to using the same glassy water that they're using. Anything short of that is disrespectful. You say that wakeboarders must have glass to enjoy the sport. You say that as a wakeboarder myself, I should understand that and respect your need for that glass by not using it, even if that detracts from the enjoyment for my family on that same public waterway. You say that I should be OK with that. You say, by not being OK with that, I'm only out for my benefit.

I think I'm up to speed, don't you?

What seems to be lacking is simple respect for one another. We all have a right to enjoy public water in any shape or form we like in a safe manner. I would be pissed if someone came over and provided some advise on where I should have my fun so they could have theirs. I saw if you are going to impose you opionion on where someone needs to have their fun build your own private lake and leave the rest of us safe and respectful boaters alone damit!!

I say we return vics to the original owners the slalom skiers

people are continuously missing the point, it's awesome!

swassumptions... (your new nickname)

Really man? you're going to fill my mouth with that crap? I never said "wakeboarders must have glass to enjoy the sport." I did say that in my opinion, wakeboarding "needs smooth water". Maybe that's where I went wrong... wakeboarders dont NEED smooth water, my bad..it's more suitable however to have it than it is if you're surf/tubing, and I'd love to hear an argument against that. Point trying to be made was that I make an effort to let wakeboarders have smoother water than tubers and surfers and if I happen to tube or surf I'll make an effort to avoid smooth areas. Again, you dont think so and thats the freedom you hold while on a public waterway, which is why Im glad we dont share water. Knock yourself out, and some others while you're at it.

You call me out for avoiding your ultimate doomsday question, which I answered... so clarify to me how you truly think your direct quote of: " I have said several times now that I make every attempt to minimize my impact on the recreation of those around me" is anywhere on target with this argument. Why than are you saying you wont do a thing to minimize your impact of the recreation of those around you???????? You're officially arguing with yourself and proving yourself to be dual opinionated!!! Dont you see this? You claim one thing and announce a direct contradiction to it!!!! Again, ludicrous.

Ive proven my points and clarified my opinions MULTIPLE times to you.... it's tiring. Step right up, the mic is yours....humor me one last time. pleeeeease. }

"wakeboarders dont NEED smooth water, my bad..it's more suitable however to have it than it is if you're surf/tubing,"

I'll refer back to my opinion that it's arrogant of you to decide for others where they should have their fun, because you have decided wakeboarding is better suited to a particular spot(and hence more important) than any other water contact sport.

"Why than are you saying you wont do a thing to minimize your impact of the recreation of those around you????????"

Show me where I've said anything remotely similar. What I do to respect those around me falls short of your expectations because I won't take it upon myself to leave.

You are right about one thing: We have reached an impasse.

just for the record I suck at wakeboarding. I do, but i enjoy it as much as my boys who throws tons of tricks why cause the challenge.
If you like to surf, tube whatever thats your choice. But i sure as hell wont ruin 60 peoples day so i can enjoy mine cause im to old, or gave up on wakeboarding or whatever.

Its not about my wants or needs but the majority, when theres 15-20 boats wakeboarding on vic's and a boat of surfers making it impossible for the rest of the people wakeboarding i would say them relocating is the right thing to do.

and for the guy who called me a bitch for the sake of Dave and not getting kicked off of here i wont go there.

Why can't the wakeboarders find another channel that isn't being used by the wakesurfers? Heck, I wouldn't want to ride on some channel with half a dozen people riding right behind me anyway, regardless of what apparatus they were using!

Talking to Grant today, he brought this thread to my attention. It's so disappointing to see so many watersport enthusiasts that are completely clueless how their wakes impact others.

Let me start by stating that I am a waterskier, wakeboarder, barefooter, air chair pilot, wakeskater, wakesurfer, and closet tuber... I understand when it is appropriate to do my activities and when it is not. I have been doing this stuff on the same delta waterways since the 60's. I also used to waterski jump on the delta ramp over by the cable ferry (over 100') on weekends if you can believe that. These days that would be suicide.

Lots of you guys call yourselves wakesurfers but don't know how to wakesurf. Wakesurfing is following the boat in the pocket of the wave generating your own forward motion, not dragging behind the boat with the rope. If you have a rope in your hand riding on a board with no bindings, that's called wakeskating, and you are doing that wrong too. I get so tired of seeing these wallys out on the delta, no clue where the pocket is, no clue how to set up their boat to make a surfable wake, generally no clue. Not understanding wake dynamics is one of the fundamental problems with lots of folks calling themselves wakesurfers.

When my boat is setup for wakesurfing it throws a 3' tall wake and a swell that is about 2' peak to valley with about 40' between peaks. The swell follows the boat for at least a mile. Going 10mph down a straight slough sets up the swell and destroys the water for all others one mile for every 6 surfing.

Let me repeat that statement in all caps: GOING 10MPH DOWN A STRAIGHT SLOUGH CAUSES A SWELL THAT DESTROYS THE WATER FOR ALL OTHERS ONE MILE PER 6 MINUTES OF SURFING.

Now anybody arguing that wakesurfing is good on a slough like Victoria, Grant Line, Railroad, the Double cut, etc. cannot understand the dynamics of the wake they are producing. The delta in general is a very poor place to wakesurf. I was there last Sunday, we were surfing out on the Old River with 3 other surfing boats. It was a mess, it was tough to get a decent wake built with swells running amok. I prefer to wakesurf on a lake where I can surf in a big circle, best when there are no other boats around messing up my wake.

Once you learn to wakesurf correctly you won't want to wakesurf around other boats wakesurfing or boarding.

These days I am getting less irritated with tubers and more irritated with wally wakesurfers (not to be confused with capable wakesurfers).

i think all you guys should go meet out at vics and deal with this,and ill go somewhere else on the delta and ride butta,what a waste of time,with all you guys on here i bet vics is fulll of surfers now.

I have been staying out of this, but like a bad car wreck I had to take a glance. The real root of this argument is a eastern vs western philosophy. Today I was totally reminded of this clash of concepts while driving today to work.

I was trying to make a right at a light. There was PLENTY of room for a car to stay in the far right lane (going straight) and a person to make a right hand turn. Passing them on their right side. Yet occasionally you get these self centered A-holes who decide to put their car as far right as possible in the lane to block others from making the right while they wait at the light. REALLY? Just because you have to wait on the light doesn't mean everyone else should too, especially if what I do doesn't impact you in the least bit.

The point I am trying to make (Similar to Mikeski's) is that NO MATTER WHAT SPORT YOUR DOING...if your ruining the area for everyone else at a selfish cost its a pretty illogical and highly self centered. Really your ONE boat is more important than the other DOZEN riding in Vics?

Sounds to me like Vics is too crowded anyway. Who the hell wants to ride with a dozen other boats around? How many hundreds of miles is the delta & this is the only spot for butter?

I ride in Victoria Slough all of the time, and while I choose not to surf or tube in that area, I think it is wrong to impose my choices on other boaters using the slough at the same time. What makes what I choose to do on the water any more important that what another boater may choose? If somebody chooses to surf where I am riding, then I can either deal with it, or I can head to another slough like Grant Line, Railroad, Old River, etc...Vics isn't the only place to ride.

On another topic, I would like to get everyone's opinion on what you do when you come up on a rider that is going significantly slower than your rider when traveling the same direction down Victoria. Do you pass the boat when it is safe to do so, or do you slow down to the other boat's speed and wait for the rider infront to crash? This issue has come up a few times recently, and it can be a little frustrating when our rider is going 24mph and the rider infront of us is going 18mph. We normally run quite a bit of weight so when we slow down to 18mph the wake gets washed out and it makes for a bad pull for the person behind the boat.

In my opinion, you pass the slower boat when safe, but some people on the boat believe that you should hold back and wait for the other rider to crash.

What are your thoughts?

dont go to grant line...people surf there all the time...all the good water is on old river and vics...nothin but surfers down grantline...

Grantline sleugh is terrible the surfers have over run that area

Take turns and quit crying ! you want glass, go earlier. No one owns the right to any lake. If you comunicate with each other you can all ride and have good conditions. 90% of the boats wakeboarding on our lake power turn anyway.

I agree with Robert.

I have been getting a good chuckle out of this thread this week though, so thanks to all for that.

Robert, good question I find it is hard to pass the slower boat. We usually drop our rider and just wait a bit. Of course this only works on a slower day.

We were out on Sunday (briefly) Vics was blow'n out so we went back to old river. Lo and behold a surfer in the designated surf slew. What are you going to do, just make the best of it and be glad you can be out on the water.

found this in the wakesurfing forum:

http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/87668/730814.html?1252001884

Robert,

I usually just drop the rider and let the slower boat get a good lead out then go again or break through one of the gaps and go down the other side. Kind of a pain in a loaded boat but I don't like passing, passing usually just goofs up everything, and it's often dangerous.

Found this on "find a third be a third" section: All weekend surfing bonanza at Vics... lol..funny stuff.

http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/53686/730971.html?1251933314

This thread is a riot! Remember guys, there is 1,000 miles out there to shred.THATS RIGHT 1,000 MILES. not all glass(oops Butter) but always some. I know that I can always find a spot to ride glassy Boatless water any day of the year if I try, or I can stay and ride the rollers on vic and come here and whine about it

Isn't there oceans to surf in?