Charging Voltage with HO alternators

I am in question of a few things. Here is my set up

I have a Battery Shack HO alternator 160 Amp's (it is self grounding and has a internal voltage regulator)
I have 5 Blue top optims deep cycle they are all about 2-1/2 years old.
I have a 4 gauge wire going from the output alternator to the battery slector its a bout a 13 foot run.
I have a Dakota Digital indash volt meter that has been calabrated and is in line with a FLUKE multimeter I use for testing (so the gauge is correct)

"My Problem/ Question"

What im running into is with fully charged batterys im seeing 12.7 volts with the boat turned off.

When the boat is Just above Idle 1200 rpm's I can see 13.2 to 13.5 Thats the most I have ever seen. that seems low.

When the batterys are low Im not seeing the voltage that would make me think im Charging. The most I see after starting the boat back up when batterys are low is 12.2-12.5 volts thats with everything off.

I talked with Bill at the Battery shack the manafactuer. He is not a big fan of the Optima batterys, He claim's to know nothing about there charging rate and what sort of charge a Optima likes and that mabey the batterys are telling the alternator threw the Voltage regulator that they dont like or want a charge voltage higher than Im seeing.

Harrolds SAN has the same set up as me and is running into the same sort of voltage.

Bill at the battery shack is trying to sell me on the Golf Cart Battery's

He has said to test all 5 batterys by them self with a load tester and if all the batterys are good then Ill send the Alternator back for him to check it out.

Anyone have any thoughts????

Grant, I thought HO alternators just put out more amps, not more volts - even if they did wouldn't the voltage regulator cap off the amount of voltage coming from the alternator?

Most automotive applications should not go over 14.4 volts from what I have seen - so it seems to me you are right in the ballpark in the 13's.

Grant, I'm running two lead batteries on an isolator and a stock alternator and with my boat at idle it is around 13.5 and I have asked everyone I know about this and everyone has told me that is pretty much standard (people correct me if I'm wrong) I was having a problem with my system not too long ago almost it like it wasn't getting enough juice so I thought it was my voltage being low i.e. alternator but Hyperryd thought it was probably my head unit so I bought a new one and man what a difference. If everything is running ok I would'nt worry. I do know when we park and listen to the radio for a few hours and when I crank back up my voltage reads around 10 or 11 volts but after we start cruising it is back up to 13 or 13.5 real quick.

Grant,
I have heard from other "stereo guys" that Optima batteries are fickle in how they charge. I have run Optima's for several years, and have not found this to be the case at all. When I press the "stereo guys" as to why they say this, they get all uncomfortable and try to make up some lame story. I have also run the huge 6 volt golf cart battereries, and in my experience, they are by far the power storage kings. I don't run them on my boat because of the size, maintanance, and the chance for acid leakage.
As for your charging voltage issue, you mention a "battery selector". Is this a switch or some type of isolator? Have you checked for a voltage drop across this device? Try using your Fluke meter to check the voltage at the back of the alternator, is it the same as the voltage you are seeing at the Dakota meter? (within .1 or .2 volts) If you see a difference, start your work there.
Have you double checked your grounding? Use your Fluke meter to check for issues here also.

The next tool in your arsenal should be a current meter. Fluke makes a nice clamp on current probe (Y8100 ?) that will turn your meter into a current meter. The current meter will help you determine where the amps are going, and how much. You will be able to test how much current your stereo really draws, and the real output of the alternator - important stuff.
One last item, the Leece Neville alternators I run on my boat (yes I run two) have adjustable regulators. There is a small adjustment screw on the back that can be used to set the charge voltage. I set mine for 14.4 volts at max charge. I do not know if Battery Shack alternators have this feature.

Hope this helps.

Geoff

I am not longer a fan of Optimas either and have switched to AGM's, but that is most likely not the problem. All I can say is do not rely on the gauge in the boat, but use a good DVOM to check it. If that is what you are doing then test each battery individually with a high quality tester. If it is not too hard you might also disconnect all but one battery and see what it charges at. The Battery Shack has a great reputation and just happens to know his stuff after something like 20 years of doing it. Plus you are one of his greatest promoters.

Chaves: Im complaining about having to work really hard to see 13 volts. IMO I should be pumping out 13.3- to 13.8 volts Min and 14.4 volts Max I have never seen 14.4 when I bought the Alternator Bill said it runs beween 13.8 and 14.2

Geoff: I asked Bill about a extrenal adjustable voltage reuglators to boost up the voltage. Bill said I would have to send back the alternator to set it up this way and they were not a good Idea because people have a way of turning them up and cooking/overcharging there alternator. As far as Optimas go. Bill says he has had problems with low voltage with people running optims and he was frustrated his alternators being blamed for when they dont put out because he thinks the Optima sends the wrong signal bat to the internal voltage regulator. Mabey Im one of these people with a crappy Optima or 2 in my bank, 3 of My optimas are like 2 year's old one is a year old and one is brand new. I know thats not the Ideal way your suposed to do it but I wasnt going to throw out 3 good battery's just to add one more. Mabey One or 2 of my batterys is going bad and its dragging the rest down???? I asked the Optima battery dealer and he said the Optima can take a pretty big charge 50-100 amp

Bill swears by the US batterys Model # US-2200 he said its a 6 volt battery that 7 inc long 10 inc wide and 11 inc high its 225 amp hrs And yes I would have to run 2 of them. He said they will out last most anything. 2 golf cart batterys at 225 each is like 450 amp hrs so thats like having 8 Optimas Im not a fan of the wet cell batterys for the reasons you talked about, so Ill work with the optimas till I cant. I tested the voltage at the back of the alternator and at the batterys and it was with in few mili .01-.03 volts of each other the same is true for the Dakota in dash voltmeter. I have never checked the grounding of the unit. It bolts and grounds directley to the motor. I use a heavy duty continus use switching solonoid to take my starting battery out of the system. I can check the voltage at the solonoid and see if it is close to everythings else.

You said you have 2 Alternators, Intresting. Is this on your boat? I would like to know more about thins application and alternators

Peter: what are AMG's and yes I dont rely on the boat gauge. Im using a good DVOM. I was thinking the same thing about Disconecting all but 1 or 2 the batterys and seeing what it charges at. And yes I like bill and his stuff but he seems old school and his way is Large golf cart batterys and I dont think they are going to be the best way for me to go for for storage and all the other reasons listed above.

Grant:

The Battery Shack people are throwing up a smokescreen! Either the person you are talking to is ignorant (which is different than "stupid") or he is intentionally trying to shift blame away.

An alternator can't tell what kind of battery is attached to it. It can only react to the voltage that it sees. A "smart" regulator will have memory and would cut back the alternator's output once the voltage peaked, and thus the capacity of the battery attached would effect how soon it reached this point. Such regulators are not common and I have never heard of one being built into the alternator.

With the standard regulator the output current is a function of the voltage. Below 13.2 volts the alternator should be trying to put out full current, which may be limited due to low engine RPM.

A common advantage of a high output alternator is that it will generally produce more current at idle speeds than the stock alternator. If the engine is running and everything is off, I would certainly expect the voltage to rise to at least 13 volts. If it doesn't, then either the batteries were really dead and are drawing a LOT of current or the alternator is not putting out what it should.

Question: Are you connected through a battery isolator? If you are, then the isolator could be causing a 0.7 volt drop, which would change the picture dramatically! The alternator could be putting out 14.0 volts and think that the batteries are fully charged, but what you would see at the battery would only be 13.3 volts.

My first suggestion is to measure the voltage right at the alternator, from the output terminal to the case of the alternator. If that voltage varies significantly from what you read at the batteries then there is some sort of bad connection.

You mentioned a battery switch: Have you ever switched to the OFF position while the engine was running? Doing so could damage the alternator.

Rod

Rod I was waiting for you to chime in,I dont have a Isolator. I have a electronic solonoid. That electronicly takes one of the batterys out of the system when the key is turned off photo below




I tested a few of my batteys (by them self) with a Load tester last night and they were good. Ill test the rest tonight.

I have tested right from the back of the alternator 13.2 volts and the voltage is the same some what at the batterys. I havent tested at the soilnoid yett. but I would assume it would be much the same.

I told bill that sometimes Ill play my Stereo till it drops to 11.4-volts or lower and that When I fire it back up I dont see a dramatic rise in voltage. He was saying mabey the optimas dont have enough current back to the alternator to tell it to start working????????

He said he would take it back and test it no problem. I wanted to make sure it was a Bad regulator/alternator or somting in the alternator for sure before I boxed it up and sent it back. And when I talked to him all these questions came up?

I remember when I first got the alternator for bat Shack. I never saw the 14.4 volts so this isnt a new problem. I called him and we talked. He said he had a tec sheet on it as well as every alternator he builds. And that he test runs all alternators and that the teck sheet for may alternator read correct 14.4 volts,

Bottom Line This battery or That battery batterys low or batterys fully charged I should see 13.2- volts or Higher. This is not the case

Once again, Rod McInnis comes through as the voice of reason with a well written post that is right on track. As Rod is suggesting, determining how much current is being generated by the alternator is going to be a key to solving this mystery. A D.C. current meter would be very helpful here. By what you have told us so far, I am betting on the alternator. No offense to the great guys at the Battery Shack, they have helped a lot of us with good alternators at a fair price.

As for the two alternators, yes I have two alternators on my boat - 2000 Wakesetter VLX with a Monsoon. I run two 105 amp alternators rather than one higher amp alternator because I started out with a single V-belt. When I tried a high amp alternator using a single V-belt, I had problems with slippage and burning of the belt. I was afraid to really "crank down" on the belt to prevent the slippage as I was worried about damage to the alternator bearing.
I fabricated my own brackets, purchased dual groove pulleys from Indmar, ran a second V-belt for the second alternator, and wired them together with a Hellroaring isolator. I now have over 220 charging amps at 2500 engine rpms - tested output with a Fluke current meter into a carbon pile resistance load. I made this upgrade to feed my stereo, 2000+ watts RMS (much more "peak"). I had tested the draw from my stereo at over 150 amps, this was in my driveway, at way less volume than when my wife really cranks it up at the river. My current charging system keeps my batteries charged without having to "plug in" after a day on the water. If I had to do it again, I probably would have converted to a flat "micro V" style belt, and a single marine version 200+ amp Leece Neville alternator.

Geoff

I just got off the phone with Bat Shack, Bill was not In and I talked with another guy there.

I told him my problem and he seemed to think it was the Alternator NOT THE BATTERYS and more to the point a bad or week voltage regulator, He said a local shop could replace it for less than the cost of shipping it to them so.

I just took my alternator off And Im headed down to the local alternator shop he said he can put the alternator threw its paces, and see whats wrong as well as how many amps/volts its putting out Ill let you know when I get back in a few hrs

Back from the alternator repair shop. The Alternator is working perfict its pushing 14.5 volts and up to 150 Amps.
I was right there at the bench when he tested the alternator. Without a load on the alternator it would charge at 14-15 volts and with a load of 150 amps it would go down to around 12 volts. so I walked away confused.

Im starting to think what Bill was saying about the optimas is corret. They dont like to take a big charge. Then I made my way over to the local nautique service shop and bought some extra parts. I talked to them about my problem. The guy that does all the electrical says the same thing "the optimas dont like or take a charge larger than 8 amp's" They said they were having problems with them ect and they talked to the local rep and he is the one that told them that the Optimas will not take a charge over 10 amps. You can throw 100 amps at them but they will only take 8-10 amp's??????????????? WTF

(Message edited by whitechocolate on July 09, 2004)

Grant-

Is that the Stinger solenoid? If so Rod is correct in that the voltage drop across the solenoid/isolator is 0.7 volts. Which is enough to prevent batteries from fully charging. I did some research and found that a combiner works much more efficiently. The cheaper West Marine combiner has less than 0.1 voltage drop. My system is not nearly the scale as yours, but I have no problems keeping my stereo battery (a blue top) fully charged.

That whole 8 - 10 amps for charging Blue Tops smells fishy to me.

If the alternator and batteries are good, the solenoid sounds like the culprit... The isolator might keep the alternator from sensing the load??? If the batteries don't ever fully recharge, don't they begin to lose capacity?

D

Grant-

My dad is an electrical engineer so I asked him about your problem. Since the Optimas are sealed the only way to check them is by determining the open circuit voltage. After charging wait 2 to 4 hours to let the voltage equilibrate. Then apply a 150 ampere draw for 10-15 seconds. Measure the the open circuit voltage with an accurate multimeter.

A battery with a reading of
12.66V is 100% charged
12.45 is 75%
12.24 is 50%
12.06 is 25%
11.89 is 0%

If you are reading 12.7 off your calibrated indash volt meter you might not be having any problems at all.....

For what its worth my dad sent me a 30 page packet he put together explaining how batteries work, charge, myths/truths, etc. He teaches a maintenance class for the Power Sqaudron. Shoot me an email with your address and I would be happy to send you a copy.

D

Doug thanks: my e-mail is mudmachine@hotmail.com I would love to read what your dad has put together. The Solonoid is a "White Ranger"- Contious Use Heavy Duty Solonoid, Sold at Granger Supply.

Doug what sort of voltage are you seeing I take it you have 2 batterys 1 starting and one stereo. How many amp alternator do you have
The system I did for Harolds SAN has 8 blue tops and he has the same Alternator 150 amps and he is seeing the same sort of voltage as me. 12.8 top's
Harold is useing one of thoes red Purko switches
with 3 positions 1, 2, and all. So either both our switching sources are bad or I dont know.
Im still going to load test the remaing batterys tomarow. Ill try to pull it out and hook up the fake a lake and try testing from the back of the alternator and then at the switching unit.

Grant, when you test a battery checking load tells nothing of it's internals. They need to be tested by impedence. It just so happens that is the equipment I sell, so I have some knowledge.

As for AGM's take a look at this website http://www.odysseybatteries.com/ I have the PC1700MJT mounted in my Jeep due to space issues.

FYI I found a place on the web that delivered mine to my door for $238.

(Message edited by peter_c on July 10, 2004)

Peter what battery would you sugues for my Application

Hi Grant,

I just installed a 160 amp Battery Shack alternator. When the stereo is off and I get the RPMs going the volt meter will get up as high as 14.5. When the stereo is on the volts are down around 12 or so.

I have all Interstate Batteries. I have two 6 volt golf cart batteries run in series to create a 12 volt house battery bank. I also have a 12 volt Marine/RV Deep Cycle for the starter battery.

The 6 volt golf cart batteries are pretty amazing. Where as a single Blue Top Optima's "Amp Hours @ 20 hours" is 55, the two golf cart batteries would be at 225. If you are going by amp hours alone then two golf cart batteries are equal to five Optimas! This is for the U2200 model golf cart battery. Remember, since you are running the two 6 volt in series you don't add the specs together. The specs for two batteries run in series to create a 12 volt bank would have the same specs as a single 6 volt battery. In other words, when running in series you add the volts of the batteries together (6 volt + 6 volt = 12 volts), but the specs (amp hours, reserve capacity,etc.)remain the same. Here is the page that shows all the specs for the various golf cart batteries:

http://www.ibsa.com/www_2001/content/products/product_6volt.asp

So a combiner is preferred over a Battery Isolator? I was looking at the 200 amp Stinger model but am now wondering if that I should choose a different route.

Doug H wrote " the voltage drop across the solenoid/isolator is 0.7 volts".

A solenoid and an isolator are two different electrical units. An isolator will use an incoming charging source and branch it out into two or more charging sources where the two or more "out" sources never "see" each other, they are independent of each other. The solenoid is activated by a +12 volt switch (typically ignition) and will open (not pass current) when the +12 volts is switched off. This will only let the isolated battery play the stereo/amps (depending on how you have it hooked up). The solenoid will allow both/all batteries to be charged (when the ignition is switched +12 volts AND the engine running), the batteries will also "see" each other. This is why it is important that ALL batteries be of the same age and type (within reason). There is a voltage drop in using an isolator because of internal components (diodes and such) however the White Ranger solenoid (or stinger or PAC-200 which are other 200 amp solenoids used for battery isolation) is simply a high amp relay which should not "drop voltage". A relay is merely an electrical on/off switch. }

TR thats what I thought. The resaon I didnt use a Isolator is because I have heard that they drop voltage. The Solonoid dosent seem to be the culpret. Because the voltage at the back of my alternator 12.8 and the voltage at my batterys 12.7 seem close enough to indicate that Im not losing enough voltage to point out a problem with the solonoid. For some strange reason I think its the Optima's that are giving me the problem??? Either I have a bad one or They just dont like that much voltage and will only take a small charge. Like I posted above when i took the alternator off and had it tested it was at 15 volts and up to 150 amps

I would see if you have a source or a distributor/retail store that handles the Optimas and can check them. It may be that you have decreased capacity in one or more batteries and that may be causing your overall problem. However with that being said, Doug H wrote.... A battery with a reading of
12.66V is 100% charged
12.45 is 75%
12.24 is 50%
12.06 is 25%
11.89 is 0%

If you are reading 12.7 off your calibrated indash volt meter you might not be having any problems at all...

he may be correct... Are you having probs with your system or are you just curious as to why you are only seeing 12.7 on your gauge?? Maybe i missed something? Your .1 volt loss (which is minimal) is most likely from wire length/runs/connections. In VERY Laymans terms...You are gonna lose a little elecrical energy no matter what you do, it is just a characterisic of elecrical energy being passed... I know you use large gauge wire in your installs so i would not worry about this minimal amount of loss.

I was just thinking that If I was only seeing 12.6 that I was some how loosing out on Voltage and my system was not fully charged and that a fullly charged system would play longer stronger

TR:

Attempting to establish the state of charge on a battery by voltage alone is very difficult.

To start with, it will vary with temperature. It will also vary with load. The only way to get a close approximation is to measure at room temperature after the battery has been "resting" for 20 minutes or more. By rest, I mean neither charging or discharging.

If you take a battery that was at rest and drive more current into it the voltage will rise. How much the voltage rises for a given amount of current will depend on the size and type of battery and the state of charge that it was at. A typical 27 series lead acid battery that was at 100% state of charge will rise to 14.2 volts with only a few amps flowing into it. A battery that was at 50% state of charge may require hundreds of amps to drive the voltage to 14.2 volts.



Grant: You said that the alterator shop tested your alternator, and that it put out 14.2 volts and 150 amps. I assume that those two readings were not at the same time: it should put out 14.2 volts at a very low amp rating, and 150 amps at a much lower voltage. At what voltage did it put out the 150 amps?

It certainly appears that the basic alternator is okay, but the voltage regulator might still be bad. It should be able to put out the full amps at 13.5 volts. If the voltage regulator is whacky it might back the current down at a much lower voltage.

Rod

Rod; The alternator put out 14.5 to 15 volts with no load on it. When they put a load on it the voltage would drop as the amps would rise.
At peek amps "150" it was just under 12 volts

On the load tester it had a nob on it to increse or decrese the load. It was pretty cool. Im sure its not my alternator. Im pretty sure its not my Solonoid. The only thing left seems to be the battery's

Any more Idea's

Rod, since you seem to be the resident expert on battery systems I have a question for you. My house bank (two 6 volt golf cart batteries) have a voltage of 12.6 when all the accessoires are off. However, once I turn on the stereo OR says the tower lights, the voltage drops down to below 9.5 or so.

Does a 12.6 truly indicate a 100% charged battery? If so, why would the voltage drop to 9.5 when any kind of load is put on the battery (ligths or stereo). Thanks!

Oh, one more question for Grant. I have the same Battery Shack alternator as you. Charging starts at 1200 engine RPM's for me. Do you have the same situation or are you getting a charge at idle? I am basing this on the volt meter going from the 12's to the 13/14 when I go from 700 RPM's to 1200. Thanks!

Porter: that sounds about right 1200 RPM's im my system is where I will start to see the voltage creep up from where ever it is. Lets say I start the day off with full batterys 12.7 volts If everything is off and I get going over 1200 RPMs It will start to creep up, to lest say 13.2 @the most 13.5.

My orignal complaint was, Example system is dead or low from playing with the motor off. I fire it up and was wondering why I dont see high voltage.
My answer might be. The reason Im not seeing high voltage is because the alternator is pumping some serious amps into the battery's. If thats the case no problem. When my alternator was on the bench test it was like 11.5-12 volts at 150 amps so Im assuming that when my system is low and the alternator is pushing 150 amps to my batterys thats why Im not seeing higher voltage.
But It would not explaine why when my batterys are fully charged with no load on them at all I have never seen aything over 13.5 I would think I should see 14.5 or higher????

One more note. I have my batterys all 5 of them on a trickle charger 1 amp per hr. Its what I hook up to the boat when Im finishd with it and its going to be sitting back in the garage for the rest of the week, with the charger attached is see 13 volts. The min I disconect the charger the batterys drop to 12.7 and thats where they sit with the stereo on but not turned up or playing.

I have a bigger charger 50 amp that I bring with me on trips to charge my batterys back. With my math a 50 amp charger should charg all 5 batterys back to full strength in 5 hrs thats assuming they are dead flat. The thing is it seems that my 50 amp charger dosent charge my batterys as good or as full as my 1 amp charger. Im sure its better than nothing

Still looking for answers, Now that I have a AMP clamp It will be intresting to see what kind of amps the alternator is throwing at the optimas when the batterys are low. Ill try to test it this weekend.

Hey grant, off the subject, I was in bay area on Wednesday driving down 580 and saw Harold cruising down the road with his SAN. I wanted to get him to pull over so I could hear that beast. Did you change your mb's to the jl speakers? I did mine and I'm not seeming to get as much volume out of them. Is that possible or am I just imagining it.

Tom: Harold was comming back from the Delta, That would have been funny to get him to pull over.
Yes I changed out all my interior speakers. To the JL's. Here is a photo of the x-over box AKA(waste of time and $) but it looks good, IMO the JL's are just as loud

Tom: Harold was comming back from the Delta, That would have been funny to get him to pull over.
Yes I changed out all my interior speakers. To the JL's. Here is a photo of the x-over box AKA(waste of time and $) but it looks good, IMO the JL's are just as loud

sweet job on the x-over box. it does look good. what gauge speaker wire are you using? do you think it's worth upgrading from the factory wire?

Porter: Your batteries are toast! Yes, they are at 100% state of charge, but they have no capacity left so you are at 1005 of nothing!

Grant: The fact that your trickle charger can raise the voltage to 13 volts shows that it only takes one amp to raise the voltage that high! If your batteries are fully charged and the voltage doesn't get at least that high then it is a clear indicaton that your alternator is not putting out more than 1 amp at 13 volts!

As for the 50 amp charger, two words of caution: Batteries don't like getting charged too fast! If you are charging all 5 batteries at the same time then it is okay as it would only be 10 amps per battery, or roughly 12% of the batteries capacity per hour. All of that towards one battery would be about 60%, which is three times the recommended charge rate.

Also, unless it is a "smart" charger it wouldn't charge at that rate for very long. A cheap charger has a taper just like the alternator does: the higher the voltage, the lower the current. Once the state of charge reaches about 50% the voltage will rise and the current drops off. You can get to 80% fairly quick, but the last 20% can take a long time.

Rod

Rod Its a 50 Amp charger that charges all five batts. So your right each battery is getting like 10 amps per hr, No problems there.

If my battey are fully charged and I rais the rpms and I see the voltage rise to 13.5 and I put the amp clamp on the alternator leed I should only see 1 amp???

Ok like I said Im gonna beat the hell out of my system and see what the amp clamp has to say when my batteys are dead. I should be seeing some serious Amps

Optimas are fickle batteries and require a charge voltage of less than 15 volts or they are toast. I would hook up your 50 amp charger and see at what voltage it is charging at. It would still be a good idea to have the batteries impedence tested.

Thanks for the info Rod. It actually turns out the the "series" connection between the two golf cart batteries was really loose. I was seeing good voltage and then all the sudden it would drop to 9 volts. It turns out that the connection was the problem. I tightened it up and everything works great now. I guess it's important not to forget the simple stuff!

What about a stinger1700? sealed battery with about 70Ah. I will tell you what the voltage is on mine in a coupla weeks

Grant,
Have you made any progress on this?
What were the results of your clamp on current meter tests?
Geoff

I havent tested it yett. I have been busy working on some other projects. I.E speaker grills for my tower box and some more Carbon Fiber LCD mirror's, I plan on taking the boat out this weekend

Grant,
Have you found a solution yet?

It seems that there is a new thread of "charging problem" or "voltage problem" every few days. It would be helpful to everyone to hear from those who have solved their electrical problems, and how they solved them.

Thanks, Geoff

Geoff; I just got back from the Lake. I threw the "Amp clamp" to check my alternators output. I was pushing 96 amps at 11.9-to-12.2 volts. this is while my boat was ideling at about 1200 rpm's. I had been running the stereo all day so my batterys were pretty low. I tested the Output voltage and Amps from the alternator while Ideing at 1200 I was showing 11.8 volts and 96 amps. To me the problem is still not fixed. My volts still seem a bit low. Im thinking of changing out the voltage regulator.

Harold took his alternator in to the alternator shop in San Jose, Ca because he is having the same low voltage problem I am. A few intresting things, #1 they said his alternator was blowen up and not working! #2 they rebuilt his battery shack alterntor for $185 and switched out his voltage regulator from a self exciting regulator to a switched regulator. The guy at the alternator shop said that with having so many batterys (8) the self exciting regulator in the alternator might not be sencing the need to work. So they changed it out to a switched regulator so that as soon as the alternator is turned on its charging. Harold installed the re-built alternator tonight and he is off to ride at the Delta, He will let me know if that fixed it, If so Im off to get my regulator changed out for $35.
One last thing, The guy at the alternator shop said that Harolds $400 Battery Shack alternator was not a Marine unit, and that it had no internal screens for spark protection. He also said he can build a Marine alternoator like Harolds and my'n for $250 WTF
l

Grant-
Which alternator shop in SJ were you talking about. My buddy who had a shop in SJ build his alternator told me to use a shop in SJ but had heard so many good things about the battery shack I just had to try them. Maybe I should have used the local guy. Central Valley Marine reccomended a shop locally too, but I don't remember off hand which one it was.

Grant,
Thanks for the update - sorry it was not better news though. Please keep us informed as to your progress on this, there are plenty of people on this site who are interested in how you solve this problem. I know I am certainly one of them. I really want to know if your solution turns out to be more or less work than what I went through with my charging system (two alternators).
Geoff

I think I have it fixed:



I got the word form Harold this morning that his alternator was charging at 14 volts, So that seemd to fix his problem. I took my alternator off and had the same thing done to my'n. What they did was change the voltage regulator from a self exciting to a switched regulator, (Ill explain) when 12v is applyed it starts charging, my old one would sence voltage from the batterys and then put the voltage that my batterys needed. Some how this type of voltage regulator didnt work well with our Optimas.

My boat is now charging at 14.22 volts and @ 78 amps. When I watched them bench test my alternator. It would charge at 14.5 volts with low amp out put as soon as they would crank a load on the alternator the volts would drop to around 11.5 and it would push as high as 180 amps.

Some other intresting facts, The $400 alternator that I bought from my good friends at the Battey Shack did not have any spark aresting mesh on it or in it to make it a true Marine alternator. Thats right this whole time I have been using a car style alternator. I would hate to think what could have happend if things could have gone wrong. #2 the voltage regulator that was in my alternatior was a cheep 60 amp regulator, Not the Heavy duty regulator that should have been in it. The place I brought my alternator to changed my voltage regulator put new brushes and installed the proper spark aresting mesh at the front and rear of the alternator all for $70.
here are some photos of it

this is the front end of the alternator with the new mesh


this is a side shot of the spark arestor backing plate


This is the back of the alternator



The place I brought it to is called
AUTOLECTRICS
408 559 3540
1360 Wite Oaks Rd
Campbell Ca 95008

They will biuld you a MARINE 130 amp alternator for $189.00 Ask for Tom, tell him you got his name from me, Im not making anything on it I just told him I could turn alot of people his way if he could cut people a good deal. IMO this is a good deal I payed $400 for what??? Plus this guy is on the West coast so if anything goes wrong he is right here. If you cant tell Im pissed at bill at the Battery Shack I feel I got burned on my alternator not only by paying $200 more but more for the fact that I was running a non Marine alternoator and that I could have blown my self up.

Grant, does he have an email? I need one asap!

I dont think he does the E-mail thing, I would call him at the # above thats the quickest way to get your alternator. He said he ships via UPS everyday and that he has them in stock

Grant, a couple of questions:

1. Has anyone talked with Billy about this "spark arresting mesh" issue?

2. Does your alternator put out amps when your engine is at idle now? My stock alternator would be at 13-14 volts when I was just idling, but my battery shack alternator would need to be at 1200 RPMs or greater to get the volts higher than if the engine were off (12.5 or so)?

I talked to him today..... I just got one from them, too. He said he hasn't seen screens put on boat alternators for over 15 years. They have been building them just like that for 25 years without a problem.
To put my mind at ease, however, I took the screened casing from my old alternator and put it on my new battery shack one. It bolted right up.
I also looked at alternators in my BoatsUS catalog, and sure enough, none of those have screens.
I'm guessing it probably isn't an issue.

Porter. Yes I know what your talking about with your stock alternator I used to have the same thing. But I also remember seeing my voltage gauge bounce up and down on a heavy bass hit. When I installed the HO alternator my voltage gauge on the dash seemed lower but more constant.

with my H.O alternator
I was seeing 13.5 voltage at 800 rpm's and 13.8 and up at 1200 rpm's. It seems past 1200-1300 rpm's it dosent make a differance,

The guys at AUTOLECTRICS said the higher Amp they build the alternators output the lower the voltage at Idle. He said If he builds the alternators past 130 Amps they need more rpm's to charge.

Mabey when Mark Anderson buys one he can tell us what voltage he is pushing at Idle with the 130 amp AUTOLECTRICS sells I bet you its going to be higher than my Battery shack alternator

I talked to Battery Shack just now and they said the reason my alternator didnt have a mesh screen on it was becasue they thought my motor was a Desiel??? and that by code all alternators in a gas powerd marine motor need the spark arrestor. So be sure to tell them that your motor in your SKI boat is gas, because we all know how confusing it can be with all the desiel ski boat running around these days

(Message edited by whitechocolate on August 05, 2004)

Grant,
Thank you for sharing all your efforts on this.
Proper voltage and current are a big deal for those of us who have upgraded our stereo systems. I am sure your story will benefit many on this board.

Just a little note on alternator screens: There are alternators that do not have brushes. A brushless style of alternator has no arcing - no ignition sources, and would not need to have a screen. That said, it is scary to think you were running a brush type alternator without ignition protection. I witnessed a boat explode at a fuel dock - not pretty!

You mentioned that your alternator is putting out over 180 amps - very impressive. I noticed in the pictures, that you are running a single V belt. Do you have belt slippage / burning problems? The reason I ask, is that I tried to run a single high amperage alternator (150 amp ?) with a single V belt, and had belt trouble.

Thanks again for keeping all of us updated with your efforts in resolving your problem. Keep us informed on the reliability of your new unit.

Geoff

Yes its amazing all the trouble I have had to go threw to get the type of voltage #'s that I thought would come easy. Its amazing the differance you can hear in my system from 12 to-13.5 volts that 1-1/2 volt make my system.

No problems with belt slipage. I thighten the belt as tight as I can get it. I have been told the way to chack is, If you cant turn the pully inside the belt its good. So if you try to spin the alternator and the motor wants to turn as well your are good. However I havent had a problem Yett (knock on wood) I dont think having the belt this tight will last forever and I keep a extra one on board just in case. They can and will install a second pully on the alternator so you can run duel v belts if slippage is a problem or a serpienteen belt if you like. That would be a good upgrade for me, If anyone has any suguestions on that I would be intrested.

Grant,
That is strange what they told you that about the diesel..... The same guys told me that they NEVER install screens.... they said it isn't necessary. I wonder what the real story is.

Sounds like they are trying to cut corners to me

you might talk to bruce at sonnenschein.org about the charging cycle on different batteries.

most gel and gas mat batteries gas off above 14.1 volts. see if that 14.22 is less than 14.1 at the battery(s)