A power turner's passenger.....

I was recently invited out to ride, and the boat owner was a hard power turner. SUPER NICE folks...had a blast, and 8hrs on the water, but....Talk about -uncomfortable- when he powered around instead of straight stopping!!! My first thought was to politely inform him about stopping/turning, etc. Then suddenly, I asked my self...........

Who am I to try and tell someone how to use THEIR boat, when I'm the invited guest, and justify it by -saying to myself- that I'm "enlightening" them? They didn't ask for my opinion.... Would I go to their household and tell them how to live? Of course not! How presumptous that would be.....

There are no laws...it's not my lake...or my boat...it had no affect on my safety, or the safety of others......it's the preference of a great number of folks who occasionally feel the need to give their opinion, when it's really none of their business..... And how could I justify telling a total stranger on a diferent boat? (BTW, I welcome opinions when folks come out to ride with me. Sometimes I even listen )

Don't get me wrong, I tried to work it in under the radar, and hoped I could drive so I could "show", and use it to ask if they minded, cuz of the advantages, etc....Darn good hosts wouldn't hear of it! I was their guest, and under orders to relax, enjoy the day and ride..........I decided that I would not feel right to just bring it up, and found no opportunitiy to work it in as a discussion topic......

I plan to invite them out to ride as MY guests soon... I will use that time to brief how and why I wish MY boat run.....maybe they will think it's a better way to do things.......

I'm not trying to bash anyone about this.....just a surprise dilema that I never had to think about before, and what rolled around in my head.....It was a -GREAT- day, regardless.

eh, i tell them anyway. if they invite me out again, great! if not, oh well, move on. everyone that i've "talked to" about power turns have all invited me back out. it all depends on the recepient of "the talk." if they're willing to learn, they'll accept it. if they're too cool too tough to be corrected, taking them out on your boat and showing them wouldn't help either.

i would have had no problem bringing it to their attention. but i would feel a bit ackward but i would have been over it in a second

Tho I see your point,I would have no problem bringing it up that's ofcorse thinking that these are wakeboarding folks.

everybody is all over it.


I'm glad we all see alike.

I was recently in a boat with a Canadian pro and he had a good way of identifying with the boat owner. He explained that coming off plane and slowly going back to the rider 'SAVED GAS'. He estimated in one day on the water at his camp, they save $25-$30 by not power turning. I thought that was rather creative way of stopping power turning.

You are correct Clubjoe, very uncomfortable for passengers to be holding on for dare life and even worse for the rider in the water getting bounced around while they try to grab the rope.

Shoot how about a good friend or relative that wont listen in your boat. I got one of each that I wont invite now unless I have another driver. That's because they wont listen and dont care even though it's my boat.

Well unless they are the very last resort. So if you see that white and burgundy 2001 unleashing endless rollers down Vics. I'm probably the guy hiding in the tullies waiting for my pick up.

Maybe I will get that camo helmet after all. Do you think I could get one in hyacinth?

These folks were very nice, and have been boarding for a little while. I found out it was a habit one of them falls into....The ride wasn't spooky. I was uncomfortable because I felt like everyone was "looking"....it was a bouncy time though!

Joe--I'm sure they would take advice in stride, if presented right. I just suddenly thought "how presumptous"......and it wasn't about just being another pull to take or leave....it was about (MY perceived) manners around new friends, who invited me to spend the day with their family and friends....I was at a loss for words I guess....NOW THERE'S A FIRST!! Just saying something sounded too strong at the time...

I like the saving gas speech though.....

DERBY---THAT'S FUNNY!!! I can picture you in the weeds, looking around like an escaped convict!

(Message edited by clubjoe on July 11, 2006)

That gas saving approach is brilliant. It is a touchy subject when on someone else's boat, but I do say something, and the person is often appreciative and understands why.

OK, Just to clarify, could someone describe what a power turn is? I mean, I have had 4 boats for over 15 years, and think I know what it is, but just to make sure....

Sean

Derby, I feel you. family members of mine swear by the powerturn, they think its some kind of race to get back to the rider.

A "Power Turn" is a turn under power - above a dead slow - back to the fallen rider. It throws a wake.

The majority of the serious boat/rider injuries in our sport are caused by the tow boat hitting the rider during pickup. Most experienced drivers will approach the fallen only at a dead slow and about 10 feet to the left. The fallen is always in sight of the driver and they are always approached on the driver's side.

Power turns also send a roller out and screw up the water for themselves and everyone else. Really rude behavior. Unsafe to boot.

It's all in the delivery.

For example....

"Did you notices the other boaters are looking at you like they want you to die? Well let me tel you why...."

The gas thing is brilliant. I would speak up. But often when we are invited on someone elses boat, they are looking for some advice.

Great post Joe.

"How to Power turn - Delta Style"

(From a 25+ year member of the GGWSC)

Upon noticing your skier giving the slash to the throat sign perform the following steps:

1) As skier pulls out hard to either side - without letting off the throttle perform a slight pre-turn to the opposite direction.

2) In one fluid motion crank the wheel hard back toward the skier while hammering the throttle.

3) As the boat initiates the power turn be prepared to kill the throttle when the hull breaks loose and starts to flat spin. Timing is critical here, ideally you want to spin a complete 3 so your skier can ride right up to your swim step.

Common problems and how to fix them:

A) Hull doesn't break loose - boat heads at speed towards the levee, shore or another boat.

- not enough throttle going into the main turn - have some balls & hammer that sucka! -

- not letting off the throttle at the right point -

- wheel not turned fast enough or far enough during the main turn - get a suicide knob -

- your hull isn't breaking loose because it doesn't have a flat bottom - get a ProStar -

2) Skier T-bones your hull, boat runs over skier, skier ends up in tullies.

- Poor timing on initiating the sequence. As skier pulls out wait a second or two longer before starting your pre-turn. -

3) Observer crashes into windshield and gets injured. Passengers get ejected from the boat.

- Never powerturn without a trained and qualified observer. Get into the habit of yelling "hold on" before starting a powerturn -

- inform all passengers that the skier signaling the "slash to the throat" applies to their health/safety as well. -

A properly executed Power Turn is a thing of beauty and has an extremely high coolness factor. Practice it until your skier can ride right up onto the step!

If wakeboarders scream obscenities at you just ignore them; they are just jealous that their boats can't pull this cool maneuver! Besides this is payback for having to crash those big wakes!

And show some respect here, I learned to powerturn behind one of the best PT boats ever, an 85 MC Prostar, not by watching the ski show at Marine World like most of the posers out there!

its etiquette. i have no problems telling drivers either. most of the time they just arent aware of what they are doing and when you point out the dismal effects they clearly see the benefits of slowing down

Powerturning is like pissing on your own bed, or taking a dump in your own kitchen. Your just kicking up a bunch of garbage in your own path and adding useless energy into the body of water. One jackass can ruin enough water for three or four boats. What's the fargin hurry anyway?? You need to beat on your boat and get back to your gaping rider that quick?? Let em sit and think about hanging on to the rope.

Unless there is a health or safety issue, completely different story.

I tell people it is a magic trick and I can make the wake disapear. People tend to pay attention and feel like it is a challenge to make the wake disapear. works great for me all my new drivers tend to learn this very quickly.

Another benefit in my case is it gives me time to catch my breath since I'm so out of shape.

Rich, that is the best description/how to I have ever read! LOL I can't wait to perfect it on the lakes here in Fresno.

I've been in the same situation before. I still would speak up. The people I've told about it just never really thought about it. Once they figured out how effortless it was to stay in line with the rider, cut the throttle and idle back they never power turned again. There are som many pluses you could tell them about. It's safer because you stay in line with your rider, thus making it difficult for another boat to cross into your path, you save gas and you eliminate the possibility of taking water over the nose of the boat going through your own rollers.

The first time Evan came out with my wife and I he brought this to our attention. I think Jarrod is right in that it is all about the delivery. Evan politely (well, polite for him by saying "quit power turning you beeeeeeeeyatch") pointed this out to us and we took his advice. Looking back, I can't believe we were doing that.

Could you handle it if someone explained what power turning is, to you? Would you be offended?

If you answered yes...Why would you be so arrogant to think they couldn't handle it or would be offended?

If you answered no...then grow some balls!!

My father-in-law came to visit a couple weeks ago and wanted to drive the boat. So I let him pull his son, everytime he son fell he would power turn the •••••••• of the boat, I just bit my tounge. Of course what does my wife start doing after seeing her dad do it? Powerturn.

People just want to do what they do and dont like being told otherwise.

I think another approach, to another boat on the same body of water (if they are destroying good water), is to tell them it is unsafe and the local water patrol may interpret it as unsafe and could write them a ticket, you just wanted to help them out.

Ha, ha, sorry Tim. I must not have been feeling too PC that day. BTW, go to mexico, sucka.

(Message edited by guido on July 12, 2006)

You could say it's a safety concern. It's rare but a rider can get tangled in the rope on a fall. If the driver does an instant powerturn upon seeing the rider go down, they can inflict considerable damage to the helpless rider.

I always pull the "wow, I'm really stoked to ride behind a _________ boat. How does it pull? Man I would be really appreciative if you could let me try and pull a rider." Then it's all lead by example. It especially works well when you show them the proper way and make little innocent comments like "yeah I just can't mess up this water, I feel bad having to turn around. (as you throw a two inch slow turn roller)" It also helps when you are a better, more experienced rider as many people want to learn.

Like my personal quote says, "Diplomacy - The art of letting people have it your way."

Funny, I was in this same situation just last night when invited on a friends father's tige. I bit my tongue.....which was especially difficult watching those 4' rollers toss the boat around next to the rider. I've not had the same pleasant response to my previous suggestions regarding PTs as most of the others here. Even family/friends have taken offense to me telling them "how to drive" so I decided it was not my place. I thought about printing out "don't be that boat" and mailing it to him though

As a former USCG officer, when I saw a boat manuvering that way, I often had a chat with the captain. Power turns, in my OWN opinion, violate the basic navigation rules. The fact that every year props chop up the riders in the water is proof enough for me. When the captain maims or kills the rider in the water, they should be cited for the violation of the basic navigation rules (proper lookout, safe speed, manuvering, etc.).

Ignorance and stupidity kills. Don't be part of the problem. If you are sitting in the seat, wathing the problem, keeping silent, and someone is maimed or killed, are you partially responsible? Answer the question for yourself before the situation happens to you.

Yeah, I don't like water being screwed up, but that is not the main issue with power turns, in MY opinion. Very few are maimed or killed by other boats, most are by the towing vessel during pickup. Those maimed my other boats seldom would be helped by a power turn.

Hey, I would take a half a dozen power turners in Vics over one wakesurfer.

New discussion?

If you were in a boat that was wakesurfing up and down Vics, would you let the driver know that he is Fing up a prime, high capacity riding spot?

Yes....I hate it.

Surfing in Vic's:

I've only ridden there a few times (we ride the Stockton area mostly, berthed at Garlic Bro's) and wasn't driving so I didn't pay attention to depth. Could you explain to the surfers that they would get a better wave if they moved along to deeper water?

...and FWIW, a surf wake usually makes quick work of running off the power turners.

i wouldnt have even hesitated in offering up the wisdom of no power turns as well as even wakes and what not...

the only true unpolite thing to do is bag on the size and shape of the wake and blame it on your bad set

that and run off without helping to clean up,no gas money and leave your cheeto crums all over

sounds like a stupid question--we have a new boat and are NOT power-turning but could someone describe the optimal way to pick up a rider once they fall/drop? Thanks!

Tracy, I generally pull back on the throttle and turn the wheel slightly to the left as the boat is coming off plane. Once the boat is down off plane (to idling speed)I turn back to the right and idle (or slightly above idle) back to the rider. The slight kink to the right makes the rollers flatten out before you turn back through them. It was a trick that I used when I had a boat that sat very low. I still think it's the smoothest way to turn around. Also remember to approach your rider on the drivers side of the boat. That way the driver always has the rider in view.

I turn back to the right and idle
Also remember to approach your rider on the drivers side of the boat

Both of these make you go the wrong way at the lake (traffic should be in a counter-clockwise direction around the lake). But I agree, that is the best way of doing it.

It is the best way but sometimes I find myself going straight between the rider and the levee depending how close the rider fell to the levee,swinging my ass end right into a levee wouldn't be prudent!

I tried Evans method and never could get it right. Maybe I wasn't turning hard enough to the left before coming off plane but I would always run into my own rollers and often dip the nose (very low freeboard).

What works best for me is to cut throttle all the way to neutral, and start the boat to the right, I leveled out and wait till we're about 90* to the wake, I shift to reverse and lightly blip the throttle (propwalk on ours pulls to port in reverse) so the boat turns faster to avoid the rollers, then idle back to the rider.

No one has mentioned the fact that power turns not only throw wake at everyone else, but also to your rider. It really sucks being in the water and having a huge wake crash over you as you suck water up your nose.

Another way to politely tell your friend is simply "hey, when I first bought by boat, one of the best pieces of advice my friends gave me is..." and then go into all the pro's & con's of power turning.

we ran into a power turner last weekend on old river.. rider fell and driver power turn'd. we were about 20 seconds behind him and their rope was strung across the water.. we had to back off and let the rider sink while they pulled in their rope and yelled at us for almost running over their rope..

power turners on the delta is a no no...weekenders