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Old     (gumtree)      Join Date: Mar 2009       06-05-2009, 10:38 PM Reply   
I work with snacks at the same dealership. Our dealership is very different from many traditional dealerships, in that we make our money in the service department, that is the main source of profit.

We feel that we may never make a million in service, but we also aren't going to lose a million. We are very clean on new boat inventory and have a great reputation that has allowed us to keep selling boats, not as many as we used to, but we are selling them.

The reason most dealers are going out of business right now is because they live and die by boat sales, if they had the consistent backbone of a service department, many dealers may have weathered the economy better. We feel like this makes it a little bit less of a risk to the company, but has great potential on the 3-5 year horizon and beyond.
Old     (wakeitnofakeit)      Join Date: Jan 2009       06-05-2009, 10:53 PM Reply   
Deltadave




































































































Delta Dave: What happened to promoting wakecraft? They would only have to bring in a couple. If they took the pricelist and compared options they may be in for a surprise. I would bring in both. Let the buyer decide.
Old     (deltadave)      Join Date: Mar 2005       06-06-2009, 9:06 AM Reply   
Gum, that's good that you guys rely on service. Still, I would be cautious about bringing in any boat line right now and I think Tige has particular drawbacks even in a good economy. You already know if you sit on inventory for a year or more, you pay a lot of interest and you can have a net loss after you sell them. Seems like the dealers in CA, even before the recession, were sitting on inventory for quite a while. You still would have the issue of their high prices and the fact that the market is flooded with super low priced new and used boats. That is going to make selling a Tige for 65k+ tough. You guys know your market and if you're sure, based solely on business facts, that Tige will sell, then go ahead. I think I would look at Moomba, if it's available, since there are a lot of buyers in the 39k range and you can compete with all the low-priced inventory on the market or at least hold off another eight months to see how the economy is doing.
Old     (tanner)      Join Date: Oct 2005       06-06-2009, 9:14 AM Reply   
Dave I totally agree with you as no boat line is a wise decision right now. But if your looking long term and financially stable, it could be worth it.

As far as wholesale....I can't say. When I looked at opening a dealership, BU was locked down by the same family that's had it for years here, so I never got to see their wholesale. If they are truly the same wholesale pricing, then Tige def. has their work cut out for them. But w/ the 09's and whats coming in 2010, they've def. stepped it up.

The question remains, will the styling strides they've taken translate to more sales???? Tige still has yet to get much respect from the hardcore boarders. They have however always been able to pull customers from outside the niche! It's up to Snacks to decide on rather or not Tige will carve out more market share with their strides. And rather or not he wants to be along for the ride....for better or for worse! After all... it is a marriage!
Old     (dabell)      Join Date: Apr 2007       06-06-2009, 10:30 AM Reply   
BTW, the Sacramento Tige store is choosing to leave the boating business. He has other lines of boats and Tom is an business man. From what I can get out of him, he is just tired of losing his arse every year in the boat market. The economy and lack of water has not helped either.
Old     (pavement_rider)      Join Date: Feb 2009       06-06-2009, 11:50 AM Reply   
I think you guys have done all you can do for snacks. Hopefully their right about service carrying them thru cuz they're gonna need it. So please give them some color tips for their boat orders and remember to tell them to buy enough boats to get on the big buy program so they can get the max discounts and participation points. again they're gonna need the help. Luckily Tige has those protected territories so those dealer on their way out can't dump their old inventory in your back yard
Old     (tampawake)      Join Date: Mar 2008       06-06-2009, 1:18 PM Reply   
Snacks no matter what anyone says to you if you are going Tige definitely order them with factory ballast. TAPS will increase wake size and shape it but anyone that is a boarder is going to want ballast so just do it. I am a big Tige fan as well, just not an owner.
Old     (snacks)      Join Date: Oct 2008       06-06-2009, 2:32 PM Reply   
THANKS AGAIN TO ALL OF YOU. THIS IS GREAT, SO MANY OPINIONS AND NO REAL BASHING. LIKE GUMTREE SAID, WE HAVE LIVED WITH FEW BOAT SALES AND REALLY LIVE OFF SERVICE. AS LONG AS PEOPLE HAVE A BOAT THEY WILL BREAK THEIR BOAT, IT JUST WORKS OUT THAT WAY.
Old     (deltadave)      Join Date: Mar 2005       06-06-2009, 7:19 PM Reply   
No bashing, just make sure you decide on good facts, not what you hope or think will happen. If you go ahead, keep the order small! Do NOT get on the big buy program! That's how the manufacturer suckers you in -- by appealing to your greed! I know dealers that have gotten in trouble with that program. If you buy twenty boats instead of five, to get an extra 2-4% and you pay interest on them for a year+ because you can't move the extra boats, you again have a net loss. What's $800 in discount savings per boat if you spend $400 per month on interest per boat? I think that happened to Capital Water Sports in Sacramento. Cody, I don't think Tige has anyway to enforce a territory; I've heard of Tige dealers dumping boats in CA, WA, AZ, ID, NV, NM. If a dealer is closing or dumping Tige, then Tige has no way to do anything except cancel them ... big deal.
Old     (martinez30)      Join Date: Mar 2007       06-06-2009, 7:40 PM Reply   
Don't forget...You could save a bunch of money by switching to Geico...
Old     (dabell)      Join Date: Apr 2007       06-06-2009, 9:39 PM Reply   
Dave, Yes, CWS in Sacramento sold 120+ boats in 2006, fewer in 2007, even fewer in 2008, and then even fewer in 2009. The store manager based a lot of the sales on a good year of boating and bought in excess of what they could sell. So, you would be correct in your assumption of CWS. $.02
Old     (gumtree)      Join Date: Mar 2009       06-06-2009, 9:46 PM Reply   
We would never consider getting on any big buy program from any boat line at this point, and it's still not a good deal in a good economy, because when it goes south, you get what we're seeing right now. We're not interested in being the largest dealer, we're interested in having a small selection of what customers want and a high inventory turn ratio. There are very few, if any, advantages to a big buy program.
Old     (highrock)      Join Date: Apr 2008       06-07-2009, 6:59 AM Reply   
I agree with ordering the boats with the ballast systems. At any show we were at you always get the question how much ballast does it have. You can talk till your blue in the face about how the TAPS system works but still it lacks adding any weight to the boat. On the boats my dealer has in stock still we are pricing them now with a ballast system to be added in so customers understand.
Old     (ponyh8r)      Join Date: Dec 2004       06-07-2009, 9:57 AM Reply   
I think right now is a bad time to be taking on any boat line, given the quantity of used and repo boats on the market. If you take into account what has been said above, I find it most interesting that even in their own backyard, Tige has lost dealerships to other brands. In San Angelo, Texas, just 90min from the factory, the old Tige dealer now carries Malibu. I don't particularly know if it was a dispute with the dealership or weak sales, but it could be telling of how well they will work other places, given that shipping and prep would cost less to such a close location. Additionally, the close proximity to the factory should have provided an easy working relationship should anything go wrong, quick turn around on parts and upholstery,etc. Given all those factors it still did not work out. The other boat companies seem to do really well with in the state. CC has Buxton and Sail & Ski (two largest by volume dealers) in TX as does MC (TSR and TMC)again, very large volume dealers. I am unsure of Malibu, but I would think Tige could play ball in thier own backyard.

With that said, I think Tige would make a good companion to your current line. They are different enough to not compete with Epic in the fact that Tige's are generally seen as Family Sport boats. In other words, they for sure make great wakeboats, but are not generally marketed as such. Rather they are marketed as verstile boats for familys to tube,ski and board. On the other hand your Epic line is hardcore wake.

So, i guess for me the bottom line is: I think it would make a great companion to your line, but NOW is not the time that I would feel comfortable taking on the line.
Old     (wakeitnofakeit)      Join Date: Jan 2009       06-08-2009, 2:09 AM Reply   
This economy sucks. We all agree.The problem is if we all sit on the sidelines waiting for it to get better, it never will. I actually think this is the best time to bring in a new line. In the past manufacturers had the upper hand, now the dealers do. The days of if you want the privelege to sell our boats, you must commit to sell 10, 20,30 a year are over. I would use this time to bring on new lines at a long time benefit to you. Negotiate a fair deal that does not commit you to buying boats that do not sell. Or buy a real bad boat and make all your money off serviceing it. JK on the last part.
Old     (deltadave)      Join Date: Mar 2005       06-08-2009, 8:43 AM Reply   
I would rather sit on the sidelines and make sure it's better, especially in the recreational market. Taking action doesn't mean it will get better. A lot has to improve and change for the boat business to come back. They say that could be 2013. Upper hand or not, if product isn't selling, there's a glut of old inventory and repos, a guy could sit on 2010 inventory paying tons of interest and move them at a loss. You could easily lose your profit from service paying interest on new boats ... and that's a bad deal for your company. I think it's bad timing and taking a chance to gain opportunity in this economy doesn't make good business sense .... unless you're Penske or Buffet and even those guys make mistakes. No one knows for sure if Tige will make it. There's speculation that they will and they say they will, but lots of companies say that before they go bankrupt. If you buy even a handful of Tiges and they don't sell or if they go out of business, you're screwed. Imagine trying to sell boats (or cars) that have no factory warranty because the manufacturer closed. I think it's going to be too tough to compete in the current market and it's a long shot to think some will pony up for a 2010 just because it's the newest and greatest. Honestly, would you pay $65k+ for an 2010 when you can buy just about every brand for under 50k? If I was determined to take on Tige, I would be very careful and not buy nor commit to more than four boats. Believe me, they will take your order for four boats and they can always build more if they sell for you. Do not let them strong arm you into more. They want any business.
Old     (pavement_rider)      Join Date: Feb 2009       06-11-2009, 11:16 AM Reply   
in 95 when Hydrodyne closed I remember my local dealer having one heck of a time getting rid of those boats even though they were well built boats. Dave as far as protected territories they're only as good as the enforcement which is 0 %, a slap on the wrist and don't do that again just lets the dealer know to be more careful on the next one
Old     (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       06-11-2009, 3:53 PM Reply   
I don't think Tige is going anywhere anytime soon:
"Tige Boats, Inc. is 100% debt free with the exception of 30-day payables for boats currently in production. We have exceptional relationship with our vendors as a result of our prompt record of payment. We do not build speculative inventory – we build boats that are pre-sold. Due to the great acceptance of the 2009 Tigé, incredible styling which includes the Alpha Z tower powered by the award-winning PCM engine, we are building 2009 Tigé’s currently and have a strong back-order in-line to be built."

"Charlie prides himself on his risk-management abilities and structured a deal with the City of Abilene that is planned for the cyclical nature with down periods predicted in the boat building business. The new factory is a joint project with the City of Abilene economic development office to help create new jobs in the Abilene area. Tigé’s monthly rent payment is based on production - we pay $100 per boat manufactured. Because of pre-planning, in this slow period our fixed costs are probably the smallest in our industry."
Old     (pavement_rider)      Join Date: Feb 2009       06-11-2009, 6:02 PM Reply   
Yep all the risk is in the dealers hands
Good for Tige not so good for Dealers
Old     (tampawake)      Join Date: Mar 2008       06-11-2009, 7:07 PM Reply   
Gary its called owning your own business. Most the risk is on the dealer. However being that I own my own business I can calculate that risk. If the main manufacturer is smart and calculating their risk and have near to ZERO debt that lessons the dealers risk. Not saying Tige is a good or bad risk right now but sounds like since they are an up and coming boat line they have been smart about how they run their business. Not to mention I saw an rz2 at a tournament this last weekend and it was SICK. The wake was big meaty with a nice lip. I know the dealer sponsor sold one boat from it beating out one of the big 2.
Old    00wakesetter            06-12-2009, 1:32 PM Reply   
gary, how is that bad for the dealers?
Old     (snacks)      Join Date: Oct 2008       06-13-2009, 10:43 AM Reply   
We understand that the risk is on us. We understand how the market is right now and that it's not the greatest time for wakeboard boat sales, but it will be and Tige has been great to work with. They are still running strong in production and we have heard a lot about MC and Malibu closing factories and dealers. We just have to wait out the market. You all have been very helpful still. Thanks for the comments.
Old     (formfunction)      Join Date: Jun 2008       06-13-2009, 2:57 PM Reply   
Tige is not running any stronger than the rest.My local dealer has had the same boats for a long time and payed so much they can't dump them.They just cost too damn much.
Old     (pavement_rider)      Join Date: Feb 2009       06-13-2009, 5:37 PM Reply   
Kyle,
See Brock,s post
Old     (greenwake)      Join Date: Jun 2009       06-13-2009, 7:00 PM Reply   
I have ridden behind a couple nice tiges. Wakes aren't huge but good shape, and lip.
Old     (jsc1010)      Join Date: Jan 2008       06-18-2009, 8:21 AM Reply   
I am looking at a 1996 pre 2000. Does anyone know about this boat?
I am ride behind an 84 2001 ski Nautique now which has the sickest wake I have ever seen. I am looking to get something open bow without having to live in a cardboard box!
Here is a pick of it.

application/pdfUpload
Boat.pdf (18.0 k)
Old     (highrock)      Join Date: Apr 2008       06-18-2009, 2:42 PM Reply   
That Tige will not ever make a wake like what you are used to behind that 2001.
Old     (tampawake)      Join Date: Mar 2008       06-18-2009, 3:30 PM Reply   
NO boat other than a CC will that is a very specific wake very steep which MANY love. Boots you good. Does not mean you cant get a good wake that will do what you want with the Tige. Will be more of a rampy wake. The RZ I saw a few weeks ago with stock ballast had a big meaty wake.
Old     (imscarlet)      Join Date: Mar 2008       06-18-2009, 3:41 PM Reply   
Love to Ride - I have a 98 version of that boat if you love the 2001 wake DONT buy it! I have the closed bow version and with plenty of weight in it, no freeboard and droop noise means the noise goes under very easily (not as bad as a Mal response of the same year), so would hate to drive an open bow version. I have it dialed so the wake is steep and has a very flat table between the wakes due to the flat bottom at the stern.
Old     (jacob23)      Join Date: Jun 2009       06-18-2009, 3:50 PM Reply   
good
Old     (pavement_rider)      Join Date: Feb 2009       06-18-2009, 5:37 PM Reply   
a 96 pre 2000 is an awesome ski boat. The bottom of the boat is flat at the back and has lots of hook in it. You cannot get enough weight in the boat because of the low transom and sides to safely make a good wake board wake. If you're a boarder pass on the Tige
Old     (wakeborder5)      Join Date: Jun 2002       06-18-2009, 10:21 PM Reply   
Gary, in 2002 they introduced the Convex V hull (i think thats the name?) in i believe the 21i and possibly the 20v, and by 2003, all the hulls were changed to this style. It is a MUCH better style hull for wakeboarding.
Old     (fic)      Join Date: May 2008       06-19-2009, 5:29 AM Reply   
With a combination of ballast and trim tige gives you lots of adjustabilty of wake shape the others cant do that, as far as drivabilty the others dont even come close, and you can stay on the water longer because of the best fuel economy!
Old     (formfunction)      Join Date: Jun 2008       06-19-2009, 7:13 AM Reply   
Dom,I didn't want to post anymore in this thread but I feel I need to respond to your post.
First,all boats are the same and gas mileage will be affected mostly by size and weight.
Second,Only way to change a wake is a bennet trim tab and all boats have them now.
Third,Tige's don't drive any better than others,I know first hand.
Owners goggles can sometimes blind us from the fact that our personal preference isn't a godly gift to the world and instead is just a chunk of fiberglass.
Old     (tampawake)      Join Date: Mar 2008       06-19-2009, 8:02 AM Reply   
Brock bad news is your arguing with the wrong guy. He is FAR from a goggle owner he knows boats inside and out. PM him he will give you the facts on his opinions without starting a *** for tat.
Old     (pavement_rider)      Join Date: Feb 2009       06-19-2009, 11:25 AM Reply   
Ray,
We were advising strictly on the 1996 pre 2000slm which as stated is a ski boat. This boat runs the same bottom that won Tige' rookie of the year in 1992 WSM and 5 perfect 5's for slalom wakes. My statement was not that Tige' is not a good wake boat but that this particular model would not be the greatest choice for boarding
Old     (wakeborder5)      Join Date: Jun 2002       06-19-2009, 1:05 PM Reply   
Gary,
My mistake, I have been checking this thread periodically and missed the post asking for advice on whether to get that particular boat and thought you were referring to tiges in general.
Old     (highrock)      Join Date: Apr 2008       06-19-2009, 2:46 PM Reply   
I will also agree that Tige's do not drive better than all others out there. I worked as a Tige Salesman last year and I will agree they dont. They are built well like any other boat is now. Its about the same on gas when I compare a 08 Z1 Tige to a 08 Super Air 210 and the ride is better ake and the wake with then the 210. My nautique has some adjustment on the we hydrogate and is much better in my opinion. But then again, opinions are like butt holes, everybody has one.
Old     (tampawake)      Join Date: Mar 2008       06-19-2009, 3:10 PM Reply   
Not sure what your meaning "08 Super Air 210 and the ride is better ake and the wake with then the 210" Not making fun because I am a horrible speller and have bad grammar. I have an 02 X Star (X1) and the ride on a Tige is a lot better than mine. The deeper V hull makes a huge difference. My X Star does not take wakes and big rollers well at all it rattles my teeth. So I will say all boat ride and drive different. That 08 hull on the 210 is a deeper v than on some of the older 210 hulls so it does ride in chop better. The Z1 is also more of a cross over boat so the wake is nothing like what your going to get out of a 210 a true wake boat which I ride behind as well. To be honest the 210 wake does not compare to any boat I have ridden behind steep and poppy. Its just different but not as steep as the older hulls. I think boattest.com did fuel consumption testing. So probably can check it out there.
Old     (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       06-19-2009, 5:16 PM Reply   
I, like Shaun, worked for a Tige dealer last Summer, when people were buying boats, the same dealer that sold him his 210 as they are also a CC dealer. I've spent time in both brands, Tige and CC, as well as Moomba. Hands down, IMO, Tige is a far better ride then any of the others when comparing the same size boat.
Old     (fic)      Join Date: May 2008       06-20-2009, 6:12 AM Reply   
If CC is so good on fuel why did they quit posting their results on boat test, and funny that with the same engines now they dont get the same results, could it be hull design?
Old     (deltadave)      Join Date: Mar 2005       06-20-2009, 4:13 PM Reply   
I should have figured this would become a Tige debate. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Sure, Tige builds a nice boat and we can argue all day about if one is better or rides better than the other. I think from a BUSINESS standpoint, especially in this economy, Tige is not a good choice if a dealership is considering adding a boat line.
Old     (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       06-20-2009, 4:25 PM Reply   
Sounds like you are an expert with YEARS of experience running a boat dealership! So, which builder is the best right now? Based on the reasons you give to stay away from Tige, I would jump on any right now. Some have changed ownership, closed factories, had CEO's step down, all have had dealers close, etc.
Old     (tanner)      Join Date: Oct 2005       06-20-2009, 4:56 PM Reply   
Considering Dave has tried to push Moomba in 4 out of the 10 posts he's got on here, I think it's safe to assume that's who he likes!

But I understand his train of thought, w/ their lower pricing and this economy. However, I know alot of people who don't even give moomba a second look b/c they think it's an inferior boat simply due to their pricing structure. I'm not saying it is, b/c I know they roll off the same line as the supra. I'm just saying alot think that way, so you lose alot of customers simply due to the perception. Talking w/ the salesman, they've confirmed to me that this is a real problem that they experience quite often. They say they have to fight to get customers to even consider that boat over the Supra, when the customers can't really even afford the upper end brother. Then consider the fact alot of the demographic that moomba sells too has lost their jobs or had their wages cut.... well.... it's not quite as smart as it sounds.

The people that are buying 50K+ wakeboats still have the money and are still gonna buy an upper end boat. Even if they were looking at the skiers choice line, most of the one's I know are gonna step up to the Supra. Alot of the people that I've seen buying moomba's were already stretching their limits to afford it. With banks tightening their belts, this is not the demographic you wanna go after IMO.
Old     (formfunction)      Join Date: Jun 2008       06-20-2009, 5:37 PM Reply   
Tanner,Anyone with a little common sense can tell that the moombas are real close to the supras.One glance at the price will tell you that.Problem is most people want to be ballers and anything called budget is out of the question.Its the way Americans think that shy most away from the moomba not a persons budget.If you like the new Tiges and I know you do because you have two of them,then more power to you but price wise I felt like I wasn't getting my moneys worth with the tige's.There priced like the cream of the crop but thats just not the reality of it.Nice boats just not the cream.
Old     (tanner)      Join Date: Oct 2005       06-20-2009, 6:32 PM Reply   
Brock please don't think I was bashing the moomba's... b/c I wasn't. I realize they are a very well made boat, and just slightly diff. materials and less bling than their more expensive brother.

I think you stated exactly what I was trying to say when you said "Its the way Americans think that shy most away from the moomba not a persons budget." I agree w/ this statement 100%. I was also stating that the moomba also allows some consumers to step up to a NEW tow boat that couldn't necessarily afford one in the past. But some of this niche are the same people who have been hit hardest by the economy.

In reality, all demographics have been hit hard by the economy and ALL have tightened their belt.

I agree w/ you, Tige is not cream of the crop. The funny thing is, the two "top dogs" in the tow boat market are almost at the very bottom of my personal list, and pricing has nothing to do with it. Tige seems to fit my needs more so than any other manuf. In all honesty, I would prob. be in a BU if they didn't screw their seats down instead of glassing them in. But they do... so I'm not. Is it a bad thing... not necessarily... but it is something that I personally, do not like.

As we all know, it's up to each person to figure out what's important to them.

For me, my top 5 boats that fit my needs go like this....

1. Tige
2. SVFARA
3. Malibu
4. Centurion
5. Supra

Here's my most important Items I look for when choosing a boat.

1. Style (the profile of the boat) - Lets face it... It's like a girl... she has to grab your attn. before you can want to get to know her.

2. Build quality - in all honesty, this isn't so much an issue in the tow boat market anymore.

3. Freeboard - I want my boat DEEP

4. Interior - gotta have a decent interior w/ a good layout... and who doesn't like a bit of bling

5. Wake - self explanatory

6. Ride - Gotta ride and perform well.

But like I said... every body has diff. needs. I know LOTS on here that consider the wake as their #1 priority.
Old     (formfunction)      Join Date: Jun 2008       06-20-2009, 6:53 PM Reply   
Like I said before Tanner my one and only complaint with the tige is that they are pricing themselfs out of the market.Sucks because I wanted a new 24ve but couldn't bring myself to pay for one.Oh well ill give them another shot next year when I trade my lsv in.
Old     (tanner)      Join Date: Oct 2005       06-20-2009, 7:08 PM Reply   
You know whats funny.... many of us here have found brands that we're very happy with. But when it comes time to get a new boat... we go out looking at other brands again, but end up right back where we started...lol.
Old     (johnsvt)      Join Date: Dec 2006       06-20-2009, 7:28 PM Reply   
Tanner your priorities are messed up...

1. Wake
2. Wake
3. Wake
4. You get the picture
Old     (tanner)      Join Date: Oct 2005       06-20-2009, 7:33 PM Reply   
HAHA. I knew that was coming!

What good is the wake if you don't enjoy being in your boat, and you spend alot of the time admiring other boats wishing yours looked that good? Besides, all the boats can make killer wakes now-a-days.... it's just a matter of weight.
Old     (deltadave)      Join Date: Mar 2005       06-20-2009, 7:48 PM Reply   
I don't have bias for any particular brand. I'm looking at it from a business standpoint. I don't think you have to be an "expert" to figure out that Tige has some positioning and pricing issues. Tige does make a very nice boat and have said that all along. I think Moomba makes a good boat for the money. Let's be clear, Moomba's not the best or the nicest. But there's a reason that Moomba sells a lot of boats: price and value. My point was that in this market, people are looking for deals and value. Sure, there are some that will spring for the latest and spend the extra money. I think here's a larger number looking for value in a lower price range and, in this economy, signing on with a brand like Moomba would work better than Tige.
Old     (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       06-20-2009, 7:56 PM Reply   
Brock,

Who makes a 24' boat with the same features as the Tige 24Ve, but cheaper???
Old     (formfunction)      Join Date: Jun 2008       06-20-2009, 9:43 PM Reply   
Mike,let me put it this way.I could have bought a worlds edition 24ssv with a tri axle trailer(6 twenties) and a damn dvd flat screen with options you can't even believe for the same price as a rz4.I was offered a 23 foot xlv new 08 model for almost twenty less than a 24ve.I won't argue ruff water ride or wake quality or anything else ww likes to throw at tige but price is a issue in my neck of the woods.
Old     (highrock)      Join Date: Apr 2008       06-21-2009, 6:34 AM Reply   
Tige has positioned themselves as a family wakeboat. They are going after a small niche in my opinion which is guys who have an I/O now and are looking to get something new either another I/O or you try to sell them into a Tige. The problem is Tige is too expensive for this to happen. The dealership I worked at sold Bryants, a pretty nice I/O that is definitely higher end. According to Tige you talk to the people looking at these boats and sell them up to the Tige because honestly who wants an I/O anyway? The problem is Tige has now priced itself out of this, I dont believe it can sell as a family boat for the price it is anymore. The Z1 and 20V are the best deals in the line and are inferior boats to the VE and RZ in my opinion. Tige has built a family boat that "looks" great handles like an I/O with the trim ability, has versatility with the Taps system to ski, wakeboard, tube, and anything else you want to do.

I have been wakeboarding almost half my life now and put all my savings into a new boat and still have many years to pay on it. I had to get rid of my Z1 Tige last year because I would of lost a lot of money on a boat that I honestly did not want to be in. I am not bad mouthing Tige or saying they are bad boats, but they can not sell as a family upgrade from an I/O at the price they are. If they are going to stay up in price with the big guys then they need to start marketing like that and selling true core wakeboats. I mean you cant sell someone from a $30-$40,000 I/O to a $60-70,000 Tige, its not going to happen 9 times out of 10 and that one is someone with more money then sense.
Old     (fic)      Join Date: May 2008       06-21-2009, 6:48 AM Reply   
What is everybodys definition of top of the line boat?
Price?
Fiberglass?
Ballast?
Performance?
Wake & Shape?
Durability?
Bling?
Interior layout and storage?
Warranty?
Dont include resale because everybodys resale has changed due to a bad markett, but when the market was good all inboards percetages were equal for the most part.
When you answer those questions give a reason why any one item is better in another brand based on your experince , not on what somebody said.
Old     (tampawake)      Join Date: Mar 2008       06-21-2009, 8:16 AM Reply   
I think Shaun brings up a fair argument. On Wakeworld most are looking for a hard core wake machine. Those boats are not typically family oriented nor have features for the family guy. Not to say families dont use them and love them. From what I have seen is Tige did go after that market. Building BIG boats early on with lots of storage and space and focused on the crossover market and or family boat. Now with wake becoming so popular they are targeting that market new tower bling auto ballast more common etc. All those things cost more. With that people do compare it to say the big 2 CC and MC. So when the price gets closer to that market you lose some of the guys that bought because of the price and comfort but now your in direct competition with cc and mc. It becomes difficult to say if your paying the same price or maybe 2 - 3k more why would you not buy a CC or MC. So hopefully Tige has built a loyal following like BU, and Supra has that can start displacing the MC and CC guys that are not blinded by brand and love for a specific boat. Just like there are guys that will only drive Ford or Chevy there are guys that will only ride an MC or CC. You will never get them which there is nothing wrong with that. The rest of us fall in the middle where a dealer and an open mind Tige can make some in roads with customer service, build, and a good dealer network. I agree I think build wise any of the inboards are built well and to last its the accessories (tower, cruise, plastic and metal parts, stereo) where you see the down fall and thats the most noticeable to the boat owner that drive them nuts oh and damn ballasts on ALL of them are usually a pain in the ass from time to time. I am an MC owner but would totally be open to buying a Tige especially for its ride.
Old     (highrock)      Join Date: Apr 2008       06-21-2009, 8:27 AM Reply   
Price, you get what you pay for, but in my opinion you may pay for a name but eventually resale will help make that up also. Look at a 2000 Tige vs a 2000 Nautique and compare, even though resale values have changed.
Fiberglass, everyone’s the same except Epic
Ballast, Nautique is better, easier to add fly high add on, you have a center ballast and have ballast puppies vs just normal pumps in a Tige.
Wake and Shape, you can mess the Tige with taps, but its still not that firm, this goes to personal preference and I prefer a solid wall like the Nautique has. I have been in several Tiges, and loaded a 22Ve down with over 3000 Lbs, and hated that wake, its unpredictable and soft.
Durability, I KNOW vinyl on older Tiges rips easy, we had one; newer stuff might be better but look at carpet even. Many other brands have snap in, not on Tige. I will also say their Speed Control sucks, and I mean sucks. I have Zero Off now and its holds truer than enything before.
Bling, that’s all not necessary anyway, but Tige is catching up quick and so is the cost on them. All those new screens wont work in a few years anyway.
Warranty, they are all about the same. The brand will back their boats as long as you are the original owner; next guy doesn’t too much from any of them.

That’s the reasons I believe brands are better then others. I have been in every brand of boat out there Dom and everyone has an opinion but I can back mine up as much as you want. I made my decision to get out of my Tige as quick as I could because there’s no selling them in my area without losing your butt and I have a nautique now that I am comfortable to own for many years. The Tige was having some electrical issues and porposing within the first few months, warranty items but still problems. Hands down if you have a 22Ve and a Super Air 210, Malibu VLX, or a Supra 22SSV all sitting at the same price id choose any of them over the Tige. I have experience both in and behind most boats out there, especially ones in my area and I can tell you that here Tige is a hard sale, maybe some dealers are better then others but the dealer I worked for last year is still sitting on 4 08's, he only ordered 6 last year, and is about to close a deal on one of them losing a pretty good amount of money, not to mention all the interest he has been paying on over $200,000 worth of inventory.

(Message edited by highrock on June 21, 2009)
Old     (fic)      Join Date: May 2008       06-21-2009, 1:40 PM Reply   
I too agree you get what you pay for , but in lots of cases you pay strickly for a name, my first inboard was a Nautique, bought it brand new in 2001, beautiful boat , ballast , GT 40 engine all the bells and whistles, it was treated with the best of care, I even waxed my motor and the alumiun frame around the motor, you would have been hard pressed to find a cleaner boat.
I went through (3) sets of main guages, tach and speedo, (4) ballast pumps , oil preasure switch, (2) exhaust flaps, and the interior was starting to discolor and come apart at the seams, and all of this was in a year and a half of ownership.
I kept it 3 years and sold it , By the way it cost me $6000.00 more than a comparable Tige.
I bought a 2004 Tige , I currently have 820 hours on 6.0l marine power, my interior is just starting to go and have not replaced one item on the boat, as far as wakes go there all relative to what you get used to, my sons still do agressive tricks behind the boat with no problem.
As an extra benifit I used to go through double the amount fuel for the same amount of on the water time with my CC.
So all Im saying in my case is paying for the name didnt get me any better results.
Also we work on every brand at our shop and they all have there good points and there bad , no one brand is dominate.
Old     (brownclown)      Join Date: Jun 2008       06-21-2009, 2:09 PM Reply   
Sean,

I'm just curious how someone at 21 could buy a new Z1, dump it, then buy an '08 Nauty?
As far as resale value goes...I guess it depends on how long someone plans on keeping their boat. I liked a number of "alternative" brands such as Sanger and MB, but they didn't have dealers within a reasonable distance, so I went with what I thought was a great boat for the money; RZ2. It's a boat that my kids can grow on AND we can take alot of friends in comfort.
I've always been a fan of the nice golf shirt without the logo/symbol on the front. Does it mean it's any less of a shirt? I don't think so. Not when it's MY money.
Old     (highrock)      Join Date: Apr 2008       06-21-2009, 5:31 PM Reply   
Todd, how about it is MY money.

I have been working while in school and work all summer every summer since I was old enough to drive.

Got a Z1 at dealer cost since I was working at a dealership with plans to sale it at the end of the year anyway. Tried selling it all summer and had absolutely no luck. Went to the fall boat show and was talking with the Tige/Nautique dealer in the Charlotte NC area and got a great deal on my 210 and was able to get out from under a boat I didnt want.

If buying new I would never be able to afford what any of these boats cost with the dealer markup. Without working at the boat dealer last summer my boat would have been a Older super air or a Malibu VLX used either way and that was coming from a 2000 Tige 21V.

Boats not paid for, no even close, but why not get something you can use and enjoy when your young when its what you love to do? I would rather have a boat I can enjoy now and make payments on it then have to wait till I am too old to really enjoy it.
Old     (brownclown)      Join Date: Jun 2008       06-21-2009, 7:58 PM Reply   
Sean,

Good on you for working so hard to be able to afford a boat now that you can enjoy. When I was in college all my money went to rent, food, liquor and school. We skied behind my roommate's dad's Carolina Skiff with a 90 horse Evinrude on the back. It actually put out a fantastic slalom wake.
When you have a family, priorities change...and that includes boating. With that said, the RZ2 meets our needs perfectly. I don't think it's a POS by any means. Far from it. My dealer has a beatiful '08 Nauty SuperAir that he's tried to get me to buy on a number of occasions. He also has some '08 VRides that he can't get rid of. And to be fair he has 2 Tige 20Vs that he has listed at dealer cost. All of his larger Bu's and Tige's were sold off. He told me that the larger boats usually sell with little problem because people that could afford those before still usually can. It's his price-point boats that he can't move.
I'm sorry you didn't like your Tige experience, but a lot of people do like them. It also depends on your area of the country regarding resale value. Sangers, Supreme, MB wouldn't re-sell well here. I travel for work every other week and I RARELY notice much in the way of Tiges in the east.
I'm glad you found the boat that you enjoy and have found a way to make it work for you financially.

(Message edited by brownclown on June 21, 2009)

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