Cheap VLX

Any body know of any dealers or individuals who are desperate to get of an 2008 VLX? I'm pretty much deal shopping since nothing is really selling.

Thanks

Scott

they can only go so low, in fact the longer they have the boat on the floor the less of a deal they can break, flooring cost's are a bizzle. your not going to get some miracle deal beacuse you waited so long. you will get a great deal but you will still be spending 55+ for a vlx otd.

you will have some great deals here in the bay area if your willing to travel, i have heard of boats being thousands less out here compared to other states. good luck.

I donno if you're set on the VLX but Fremont marine had a SuperAir 230 they were selling for like 60k ... awesome deal.

Sent over an email with a few dealers that I know have boats they need to unload (I'm sure most do though)

"they can only go so low, in fact the longer they have the boat on the floor the less of a deal they can break, flooring cost's are a bizzle."

Ummmm, supply and demand? If nobody is buying boats, the price will go lower until someone buys. What is better? Selling a boat at a loss, or not selling a boat at all?

Scott, I would wait a while longer. We still have a ways to go with this bad economy. You might be able to get a better deal in a few months if things keep getting worse.

If your so worried about it ask for an invoice. If you are getting anywhere near that, then take it and run. And please do the dealer a favor and don't spout off about how much you paid for it. They have families as well. I know that times are tough but it seems like everyone is looking to kick someone while they are down. You should not expect a dealer to loose money on a deal because you think thats how it should be. The dealer isn't asking you to loose money on anything... I get sick and tired of this kind of shopping and then having the same person that got this great deal, bash the dealer when he does not get the great service , or the dealer goes under and now said guy is stuck.... It costs money to service customers. PERIOD... But ill wait for all of you insiders to tell me how it really is huh...

I would look in the slightly used market. Some of those folks are much more motivated to give you a better deal that an dealer.

What is wrong with going to your local dealer and just seeing what the best price you can get? The guy who doesn't buy local always gets shuffled to last in line when it is time for warranty or service work. Saving a couple of bucks won't matter if the boat needs work and doesn't get worked on/finished for weeks.

The dealer here in Knoxville has one they would probably let go for upper 40's. Has the titan tower on it. Super clean boat.

You shouldn't wait too long.
The manufactures should see what is coming and they should cut back on production - reducing the supply to more evenly match demand.

Right now, we are in the transition period - where supply is greater than demand. Once the supply is cut back, the deals wont' be so good.

I believe the same is true in the auto market - especially for domestic cars.

I agree with Leo. At some point, a smart dealer would sell a boat at a loss to get out of having to pay the flooring cost.

Be careful what you wish for. I am not sure how great of service you will get if you totally put the screws to the dealer to get some crazy low price.

"What is wrong with going to your local dealer and just seeing what the best price you can get? The guy who doesn't buy local always gets shuffled to last in line when it is time for warranty or service work. Saving a couple of bucks won't matter if the boat needs work and doesn't get worked on/finished for weeks."

I agree with this statement and I think if you don't buy a new boat from your local dealer you deserve to wait longer and get crappy service.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to buy from a local dealer. Only issue is that boat that they have isn't really what I'm looking for. You bring up a good point with service work. My thinking is that if this a new boat, I'm hoping it doesn't have many problems with it. Also with the quality of Malibu's I don't foresee this as being an issue. Also thank you to all who have emailed me, I appreciate the help.

Scott, what color and what options are you looking for?

Scott- you should have your local dealer try and track one down with the things you are looking for. They can buy the boat from another dealer and sell it to you. This makes for a great relationship between the dealer and the buyer. You won't have to worry about service at all, and your dealer got to earn your business. We do this for our customers when ever we can.

Scott- also wanted to point out that you could have service issues at any time, with any boat you buy. what if you throw a rod or eat a spark plug? You don't want it to be 3 months to get your boat back.

Bret,

I had no idea you could do that! It's kinda like car dealerships doing the samething. Plus that solves the whole service issue. I think I'll keep looking in the private market too. The colors I would prefer would be the one that Malibu had in their catalog last year. I'm open minded though. Options I gotta have the heater(it gets damn cold really quick in the Midwest !) power wedge, front ballast, 340hp. I pretty much want the thing loaded! But once again I'm open minded with it.

Sorry if my spelling sucks i'm typing this on my phone.

Scott

"And please do the dealer a favor and don't spout off about how much you paid for it. They have families as well. I know that times are tough but it seems like everyone is looking to kick someone while they are down. You should not expect a dealer to loose money on a deal because you think thats how it should be. The dealer isn't asking you to loose money on anything... I get sick and tired of this kind of shopping and then having the same person that got this great deal, bash the dealer when he does not get the great service , or the dealer goes under and now said guy is stuck.... It costs money to service customers. PERIOD... But ill wait for all of you insiders to tell me how it really is huh..."
Absolutely spot on Bret. As someone working in the marine industry I completely agree. Times are tough, a guy coming in to buy something below cost is just like a guy walking in, punching me in the face, then walking out the door.

People who say "whats worse, not selling, or selling at a loss" have no clue. How many deals like that can go down before the dealership does?

you might wanna check with the local dealer as well and ask him if he will do any warranty work on your boat at all if you buy out of his territory. he can refuse to do any warranty work on a new boat sold in his territory (that he did not close the deal on). a dealer has to make a little money and it wont be on doing warranty work. if you dont help support the local dealer dont expect him to help you. if he cant sell boats and make a little money he will go out of business and you will have no one to fix your boat any how.
brit and bret i could not agree more with what both of you had to say. good luck guys

(Message edited by kko13 on November 15, 2008)

(Message edited by kko13 on November 15, 2008)

If a dealer is is real bad shape, and having cash flow issues...he literally may NOT be able to sell for less than invoice. If he makes a negative profit on the deal, he in effect will have to write a check out his pocket to pay the boat off from the flooring lender. Factor in sales commissions and overhead, and he may be better off holding the unit until he can sell for a profit.

AS a dealer we would not turn down warranty work from out of area boats, because we do get paid to work on them. However I always appreciate it when the customer has the courtesy to let me know if I just cant match an out of area price. This allows us to prepare for servicing his boat and may also allow us to summerize, winterize and store it for him. I think the respect thing is what I am getting at. You can not sell a boat to everyone, but everyone needs service.

Wakeride26, it costs the dealer money to service boats...

"I agree with this statement and I think if you don't buy a new boat from your local dealer you deserve to wait longer and get crappy service."

Dang.....I don't think I would ever buy a boat or let my boat anywhere near the hands of your mechanics with that attitude. If a shop charges $100+ per service hour I would expect quality service if I bought a boat from you or not. You know your current service customers may be your future sales customers and I'm sure your boat line reps would not be too pleased with such an attitude. Yeah I can see giving your own sales customers a priority when things are tight. We have a local dealer around here that thinks very highly of themselves with a similar attitude and when I upgraded my boat, I never even bothered looking to see what they had.

I don't like to see anyone struggling, but I have to say I'm with AtTheLake. I somehow don't see the "If you don't buy from me I'll provide you with crap service" business strategy working too well for too long. If you are making it work, you probably ought to call up Harvard and they'll do a business school case on it. I will say, if that strategy has been working for you, it might not in the near future because if my area is representative of the market as a whole, servicing was down this year as well.

It would seem to me there are two places dealers make money on boats; selling them and servicing them. If you miss out on one part of the transaction, I'd think you'd like to pick up the other part. This also gets people in the door looking at your inventory. If you are a dealer and you are consistently getting service customers coming in who bought boats from a line that you carry from another dealer, it's probably time to figure out why your costs on these boats is so much higher. That being said, places going under throw a wrinkle in this bc there is no way to compete with their prices.

When I bought my first boat I was looking at a 2000 model super air and a new stripped down wakesetter from a dealer. The super air was a few thousand cheaper and I grew up in Nautiques, but I liked the fact of a new boat. I was quoted by my local malibu dealer and another dealer out of town. The out of town bu was 3000 dollars less and better equipped. The local dealer got pissed that I would buy "out of territory to save a few hundred bucks." This was the biggest lump of bs I had ever heard. It was thousands not hundreds. Then he told me that he would service my boat on a last priority because I didn't buy from him. I told him thanks for making up my mind and saw him on the lake a few weeks later in my Nautique. I have never been disappointed since.

Curious why is it that boat dealers get hosed on warranty work and car dealers don't. I can buy a car in Orlando and there is no problem with getting it serviced in Clearwater. Why are boats so different? The territory thing is pretty tight with boat sales.

Dave- I had the same thing happen, but I bought the BU any way. So I had a small warranty issue and wanted to get the first service done and they told me 6 to 8 weeks. BS. Before I bought the boat I gave them a chance to meet the offer and they tried to sell me a vride to match the price.

So now I drive 3 hours one way to a dealer who wants my business. I hassle but we love the BU

tampawake,

only dealers that are d-bags pull this crap. They make plenty on warranty work even if you don't buy the boat from them, that's they're last line of defense pulling that "You'll be last on the list card". If the dealer is smart he will treat you like a customer who needs service and build a relationship with you to persuade you to buy your next boat from them.

The first Mfg that decides to sell direct and finds authorized service centers to do prep and service will rule the world. Dealer margins do nothing to enhance the boating experience so there is really no reason for them to exist.

My guess is before Mfg's go direct, you'll see more dealers cut back on overhead. It's a lot cheaper to use one of the online marketplaces (ie. onlyinboards) than it is to have huge showrooms and multiple sales staff. Some of those online marketplaces even have staff that will essentially work as a salesman for you.

Seams pretty nieve to me, won't the factory authorized service or sales center have overhead to cover, rent salary ins etc... as such there will have to be a margin of some sort to keep the doors open. You have to realize this is a miniscule industry, we're not talking Toyota here.
Additionally how many would there have to be to service people reasonably? I would think a dozen in California alone, how would a boat manufacturer cover these kind of costs with out having it be ,on some level, a profit center?

I don't understand why a dealer would be concerned with building a relationship because when it comes time to buy a new boat the customer is still going to be looking for the best price. If the dealership has a great relationship with you don't act like you are willing to pay 3-5K more to buy a boat from them. In my opinion those people should go to the back of the service line.

"won't the factory authorized service or sales center have overhead to cover, rent salary ins etc..."
Of course, they just won't have to pay salesman or there managers or any other sales expenses. The buyer will also not have to pay for the cost of building and maintaining showrooms or covering the costs of floor planning boats to fill them. If there is no reason for a service center to be there other than service costs go way down. The service center don't have to assume risks so they can operate at much lower margins while still providing jobs for people who do valuable work.

Erik not what I was saying, but your interpretation is entertaining.

To try to answer the OP question on where to find a cheap VLX the last place to go is a dealer. He needs to find out who financed all the VLX's sold in the last couple of years and ask if any of them are in default. Likely the boats in default are at dealers in their storage lots. Buy direct from the real owner of the boat and bypass the dealer's margin all together. I'd bet that the number of loans in default on one or two year old boats exceeds 15-20%. Go talk to your banker. If he's willing to give you a loan he probably has non performing loans he'd love to convert to performing ones.

roverjohn, so there will be no manager?salesman?Who's paying the flooring? Boat company's don't inventory boats, they build them and put them immediately on the dealers flooring if they had "sales" at the location they would have to either have a line of flooring or floor them themselves which would mean additional interest costs.Who IS going to pay for the building, show rooms. Even if it were just a service center which would have a very hard time paying for itself, it would need a manger and if sales were part of it there would need to be salesmen. While most people on wakeworld have a clue about boats most new buyers need help through the buying process. All of this has costs, sorry I think the premise that a factory service sales situation would eliminate the additional costs is, a pipe dream.

Sales would not be part of it. That's the whole point. Watch what happens when the Big Three go Chapter 11. In addition to having the ability to renegotiate labor and pension deals the Mfg's will have a clean slate as to how they sell their vehicles because all the exclusivity agreements with their dealers will disappear too. Mfg's will learn how to live with Lean Manufacturing rules or they won't survive. Times are changing because the consumer is unwilling to pay for things they don't need and sales costs are one of those things.

I feel like most (not all) dealers drag there feet whether you bought a boat from them or not. The marine industry has to be one of the most expensive and frustrating industries to deal with. Us boat owners pay alot of money for our boats, if you not making enough money on the sale, your doing somehting wrong. You cant blame owners and prospective owners for trying to save money on a new purchase, esp when it tops 60k. Any of you dealers out there, would you walk into the first car dealership you see and just pay sticker price, if so your a sucker. With the internet you can shop around from your home, its to easy not to save money. jsut my 2 cents.

No way marine service can exist on it's own, too seasonal,to hard to get warranty dollars, virtually imposable to get certified to work on every boat line for warranty reimbursement and keep that certification, plain and simple not cost effective.

Your all right the marine industry stinks as far as the ability to service their customers to a level they deserve, but as I said in my first post this isn't Toyota, we can continue to hope it will evolve but it's still basically a mom and pop industry with a high initial price tag. If you keep imposing the paradigm of the auto industry onto this industry your going to continue to be frustrated, see it for what it is and hope for the best.

Damn.. " apparently I, along with all other people in the marine industry should just up and die".... we all have crap service, we all dont care after you walk out the door, and none of us have ever lost a weekend on the water with a broken boat... LOL what a load of crap.. Do not blame the dealers for the territories they are given. Blame the manufactureres... We play by the rules that are given to us.. Some just don't like to work with the other dealers during these instances. Like I said, we do not back burner any one, we do however like to have a good relationship with our customers. Excuse me for asking that a customer be up front about where they got their boat. How dare I ask..

Of course there is a lot of pain in this industry right now. During the last few boom years things were great and a lot of boats were sold. I would often wonder how kids I saw at the lake or driving down the highway with their totally pimped out trucks and boats could afford those 120K plus rigs. Easy credit and bright expectations for future success I suspect. It was great while it lasted and now people are getting slammed because the housing industry and economy are in freefall. I'm amazed there aren't a lot more barely used boats showing up on the market. I would like to upgrade my boat, but a great buyers market is a bad sellers market so it doesn't really help me. I saw a BU sell on E bay this week, somewhat similar to mine for about 31K. I'm pretty sure it was worth over 40 in a reasonable market and the owner probably paid 55 plus for it 3 years ago.

I can tell there are a number of people posting on this thread who are in the industry and feeling attacked and bitter. I've had great experiences with dealers and horrible ones. It isn't the industry, it is the people that determine your experience. I think one thing that is remarkably different about this industry compared to the auto industry is that if I want to buy a car I can go into the dealership pretty confident that I know what he or she paid for the car I want to buy and how much more than that I need to pay so I don't get hosed and they can make a living. In the boat industry all that cost information is pretty opaque to an outsider. I don't know if my dealer in Tahoe made 500, 5,000, or 20,000 on my boat. Knowing how cutthroat it can be in this world it makes one a little nervous in the trust area. Just my 2cents.

"Do not blame the dealers for the territories they are given."

Then give it back and see if you can survive providing service without having the hammer of exclusivity. What difference does it make where a POTENTIAL customer bought his boat? Clearly you've already lost that sale so why not do what you can do to provide service? Your attitude is why people generally don't like or trust dealers and you're oblivious to it.

(Message edited by roverjohn on November 21, 2008)

I am in sales and since the internet has become such easy access margins on everything have come down to nothing. When we sell stuff people think we are killing it. Not even close I sell a $30,000 printer that I have to support for free not contracts and make anywhere between 1 and 2k if I am lucky. No back end money kick backs or anything. The inks that go with it are 230 per cart we make 10 bucks. So don't be suprised what boat dealers are making on boats. I gotta think its less than we all think. They are there to answer the phones answer questions fix things on the fly and not charge.

My Attitude?... Lossing a sale do to price is tough on the dealer. But now I should beg for the abbility to service it, when the customer blind sides you and drops it off on the 4th of July weekend. Once again I would never turn down service, but I do expect the courtesy to go both ways.... I have no " Hammer of Exclusivity " in todays market because certain dealers dont care if they get penalized. But the dealer that plays by the rules gets " Whacked" now that sucks... My attitude is one that sticks up for the marine industry in a tough time, where people don't care what happens as long as it benefits them... It is very sad to see it come to this, and I hope that when it is over things will go back to how they were.

I've said it before, peoples expectations, demands, are based on what they see at Nordstroms and car dealers. What do you mean I can't have my boat fixed while I eat a donut and coffee. Totally different industry and constraints. A good boat dealer might sell 40-50 boats a year and be a family business, a car dealer will do that in a weekend! That's why the support base is so vastly different and why the initial sale is sooo important to the boat dealer.

Bret, You're not doing service as a courtesy. You're doing it because you're a service provider and you get paid for it. You make it sound as though the customer is there to provide a service to you. Wow, please let us know where you work so I can make sure I never go there. Losing a sale due to price costs you nothing! There is no sale when a buyer goes elsewhere so you haven't "lost" anything. You haven't been blind sided, whacked, or been shown a lack of courtesy. Another dealer may have been willing to make less than you were WANTING to make but since you never consummated any sort of deal you've made or lost NOTHING. It's not about you it's about what the customer wants.

Amen John Gardner!

Dear Mr. Boat Dealer,

You need to get over yourself! You have two chances to win a customer's business... 1) sale and 2) service. If you lost the sale, why would you compound the problem by losing the service too?

Brilliant business strategy. Really.

You wish things would go back to how they were...? I bet you do! Lets talk about the way things were:

Tens of thousands came into dealers and paid ridiculous prices for boats they couldn't afford using their home equity. This allowed the Big 3 and others to keep their factories full while raising prices 10% a year. Meanwhile the dealers made silly margins on boats and accessories alike (How much margin you suppose is in a $2k set or tower speaker???). Those days are over. Now the customer has to actually use real money or get a real boat loan. With fewer buyers in the market, boat companies and dealers alike have a choice: Adapt and survive, or wither on the vine while you wait for the good times to return.

Only the strong survive!

By the way.. when did I ever say anything about not servicing someone. All I asked is that people let me know where they got their boat from. All of a sudden I am a A@@ because I ask questions? I do not expect people to walk in and pay rediculous prices for their boats, the same way I did not pay one for mine. I even take my boat to the dealer that I used to work for because I feel that they should get the warranty money for selling me the boat. I guess the respect thing does not mean much any more. that is all I was after, and apparently I should not ask the customer for the same amount that they are given.

"I agree with this statement and I think if you don't buy a new boat from your local dealer you deserve to wait longer and get crappy service."

Bret, this attitude is why you and anyone else who shares your views are getting ripped. I don't think most other dealers operate this way. Why don't you post where you work so everyone knows precisely where NOT to get their boat serviced.

(Message edited by bmartin on November 25, 2008)

I find this topic very interesting, and can side with both on things, but you have not once given the customer (that didn't purchase from you) any respect within any of your posts.

I switched dealerships that I take my boat to, that I bought from a private seller, and when I did I said up front "I've been going to Dealer A, they took too long and didn't do good enough work, so I'm here to see how you do"..... They took full advantage to win my business and have it now, yet hadn't made a cent off me before. Customers want service and consideration first and foremost.

Brett Yates (PolarBill) posted that... Not me.. read the post first.

Bret, I also don't understand you you even think you should get ANY respect. The customer gives you money, what other respect do you want? If the customer goes away you lose you livelihood. If you go away the customer drives to the next dealer. What is there that is "mutual" about that? There are three parts currently in the marine industry. Mfg's, dealers, and customers.
The only two parts of the equation that are really necessary are the Mfg's and the customers. Dealers only exist to provide a service to the other two. Get over yourself.

WOW........ Tell us how you really feel. I did not create whatever bad experience you had with a dealer, and I have never seen someone so against their being a dealer at all. I do not know what to say because I am totaly shocked at your views.

Why are you so shocked? Customers only want and expect fair return for whatever money they spend. This doesn't make them bad people because they don't feel the need to support you. I have no need for dealers who don't want to care for their customers so when one stops doing so it doesn't bother me when they go away. It's just business, nothing personal. You are the one demanding respect, I just want a fair return on my investment. I find it hard to understand that you don't get that. You are the one who said I should not tell anyone if I get a good deal. So let me get this straight. I shouldn't tell my FRIENDS about the good deal I got because the dealer I just bought from doesn't want that sort of info made public. So the dealer I just spent money with is more important than my friends? Really? It's funny how self absorbed you are. I've had both good and bad experiences with dealers. The good dealers get what you clearly don't.

A boat can be bought anywhere, good service is hard to come by..

Maybe I was a little harsh with the whole crappy service thing. I would just not go out of my way to help you out in a jam. It is especially bad if you deal with your local dealer and they spend a bunch of time and effort working with you and then you jump ship and go buy a boat because another dealer 1k miles away has it for 2k cheaper. At the very least give the local dealer the courtesy and chance to match or come close to the price. If you just jump ship and buy another boat I wouldn't expect your local dealer to help you out of a jam. For example when your boat breaks down a week before a week long vacation I wouldn't go the extra mile to get your boat fixed and get you ready for your vacation. If there was time and space to get you in that is fine.

Oh yeah, I don't work for a dealer anymore so it doesn't really matter.

I have news for you, all the "Bad" dealers will go away, replaced by "new" wide eyed dealers. Then they will become jaded because there is no way , in this industry, to meet the expectations that the customers have. They will get frustrated because you didn't buy from them so they could make a living selling boats, you will be frustrated because the service isn't what you want and the manufacturer's can't do anything about it because they try and screw the dealers out of every penny of warranty labor, which is why dealers that lose the initial sale aren't pumped to "earn your warranty business". It's a circular jerk that, unfortunatly, can't be solved on the glowing box.

well put...