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Old     (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       06-25-2007, 10:17 PM Reply   
Hey did anyone witness Raquel Hoffmans elimination Saturday at nationals? Someone said she stomped a Crow Mobe AND a Mobe Dick in her pass, and was then 'allegedly' eliminated by passes that exhibited lower level tricks.

Just what I heard, but I'm a Hoffman fan so I was hoping to get the inside scoop. Anyone?
Old     (mvda)      Join Date: Dec 2002       06-25-2007, 10:37 PM Reply   
I have no idea what happened, but nationals has historically been judged on 1/3 wake, 1/3 rail, and 1/3 composition. So basically, the rails are given as much weight as the wake tricks in terms of scoring. I haven't seen the Hoffmans hit the rails, but it's not like there is much access to them in California. Some gal with a mediocre wake pass could have a few nice slider hits, make it all flow nicely together, and then beat somebody with great wake pass but only a few rails hits.

I personally feel that slider hits should be given half the value of wake moves... at most.
Old     (scott_a)      Join Date: Dec 2002       06-25-2007, 10:41 PM Reply   
The Hoffmans have access to a private lake that has a full compliment of rails, actually.

Who wants to be the hero of the universe and pop out of the woodwork with video of everyone's run in her heat?
Old     (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       06-25-2007, 10:49 PM Reply   
well, if i heard correctly, both emily and raequel did toe off 5. as for the rail, emily slid 1/2 of the rail, dallas slid a third of the rail and raequel slid the whole rail. all landed basic inverts. dallas stuck a couple raley tricks, a tootsie (i think) but fell on a heel off 3. emily landed a wrapped kgb, fell on a roll-to-blind, got up and fell on a roll-to-blind again. raequel fell on a moby dick, got up and landed a moby dick and crow mobe. raequel landed 1 more trick than emily and dallas. the judges said that emily beat out raequel 'cause she went bigger.
Old     (headhunter)      Join Date: Jun 2007       06-26-2007, 5:09 AM Reply   
it was a close heat, I wouldn't have wanted to be a judge........
Old     (hoosairboy)      Join Date: Aug 2005       06-26-2007, 5:53 AM Reply   
I heard she rode well and it could have gone either way. You have to clearly beat the champs when you are an up and comer and she will have her day. I am sure she handled it like a champ and didn't complain. There have been a lot worse than that in men's division. Go up against Danny, Rusty or Shaun and you better beat them hands down or you won't beat them. That is so in all sports. Part of paying your dues.

The exception is a Soven run. If he doesn't stomp it they will give it to the other guy. They are rough on that kid.

Bottom line is Dallas and Emily are the ladies of wakeboard and will get the benefit of the doubt. They have earned it. The Hoffmans are awesome and are recognized as players and will be on the podium very shortly.

Or it could be a huge conspiracy against west coast riders.
Old     (headhunter)      Join Date: Jun 2007       06-26-2007, 6:11 AM Reply   
I was there, could have gone either way...lots of really close heats this Nats.
Old     (ktm250)      Join Date: Jan 2003       06-26-2007, 6:48 AM Reply   
I was there and trick for trick Raquel was robbed. At the very least she deserved 2nd in the heat and I believe she won the heat. Down at the start dock Emily even said she was beat and packed her stuff!

Do the math, Raquel landed Mobe Dick and a crow mobe...plus a 540 and the other girls tricks...plus slid the entire flat bar (although according to Kevin Michaels (judge) that is nothing to be proud of). Where do you think Emily would have placed if she landed that same run?

Racquel killed it and was robbed... and WSM wonders why people hate contests??? BTW, Raquel did show she was a consumate professional, never once did she lose her composure...congrats!
Old     (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       06-26-2007, 7:00 AM Reply   
Thanks guys.

Thats the story I heard Zedz...."trick for trick Raquel was robbed."

Has any girl ever landed two handle pass mobes in a contest before? That's huge!
Old     (teamvaldez)      Join Date: Apr 2003       06-26-2007, 7:42 AM Reply   
Roger, exactly what I thought and said. Raquel did a great job and handled it with class.
Old     (ktm250)      Join Date: Jan 2003       06-26-2007, 8:28 AM Reply   
J-Rod,
In 1998 Christy Smith landed a crow mobe & a backside mobe in a single contest pass, but it has not been done since, which makes this all the more impressive. Some people on this thread are calling it tough to judge, not me or any other female rider at the start dock including Emily.

As to girls and mobes I believe it goes: Christy Smith first crow mobe & backside mobe; Maeghan Major the first switch crow mobe, and Buster the first mobe Dick...
Old     (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       06-26-2007, 8:49 AM Reply   
Next time she's gonna have to bring that Pete Rose. Any girl landed that in a comp, yet?

Whatever....let the judges be harsh on her. She'll just keep bringing it bigger and more tech until there isn't any question. Raquel and her sister Shawna are some of the most talented girls out there right now. I've never seen anyone charge as hard and learn as many new tricks as them.

Congrats Raquel for keeping your head up. You'll be at the top in no time. It's great that girls like the Hoffman's are around to push the other girls to learn some new moves.
Old     (behindtheboat)      Join Date: Aug 2006       06-26-2007, 8:58 AM Reply   
Yea, I don't get the arguement that it's hard to take down an "established" rider, when a lesser known rider is usually coming with unique, new, and original riding and tricks. Politics are politics, and I bet sponsors and money had a lot more to do with it than we think. Congrats, I can't wait to see some new blood in the mix!
Old     (driving)      Join Date: Jan 2003       06-26-2007, 8:59 AM Reply   
Leslie Kent landed Pete's 5 or 6 years ago.
Old     (ktm250)      Join Date: Jan 2003       06-26-2007, 9:09 AM Reply   
Pete Rose...yep Leslie Kent.

Raquel and her sister are killing it and it is great to see new blood and talent pushing the girls.

We can joke all we want about politics, sponsors or West Coast riders being dissed but the truth is if you don't live in Florida (better yet Orlando/Claremont) then you'll pay a price...welcome to the "bro-network" of pro wakeboarding. I have said it before and will continue to say it...as long as wakeboarding is judged by roomates, boyfriends, girlfriends, significant others, sponsors etc. it will never be anything more than it is.
Old     (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       06-26-2007, 9:57 AM Reply   
What a bummer.

Anyway...Congrats to Raquel intimidating the girls that have been doing this a lot longer. You train hard and it shows. Keep doing what you're doing, and very soon, you'll be on top!
Old     (teamvaldez)      Join Date: Apr 2003       06-26-2007, 10:21 AM Reply   
I have had long conversations about this same subject with many pro rider and ams as well. It is easy to play armchair judge. In any sport you are going to have issues over subjective judging. If those that throw the contests, run it like a dictatorship, then I get concerned. As far as the pro tour goes, they are always open for change, as long as they see the logic in it. It is so NOT easy running a contest and the judging/driving is always a huge concern. You WANT those judging/driving that you respect in the industry. I appreciate both the tour and Colin Harrington for stepping in as a judge. He brings a little something different to the clipboard. Another huge factor is driving. Before there was Kyle Rattray, everybody down to jr boys only wanted Travis driving. Can you imagine having to drive a boat for so many hours and have to put up with the prima donna riders at ALL levels? (I gave birth to two of them so I feel I can say that)
Are there sometimes mistakes? You bet, but I have seen how they handle it when the mistakes are found. Another factor is do you have any idea how many people that the admin and head judge have to deal with if they feel they wern't judged properly and knowing that how many times a day, they have to listen to it? Sometimes riders (and their family and friends) just don't see the whole picture, and I am not saying this about the Hoffman girls. I respect and applaud what they are bringing to womens wakeoarding and representing West Side at the same time.
I have been there to see first hand the abuse that they endure.(especially on the amateurs side) I mean, come on, look at American Idol, some of those people really think that they can sing!! The same applies to wakeboarding. And I havn't even addressed the sponsors and THEIR input!
I believe in the mentality that "If you are not a part of the solution, you are apart of the problem " If you think you can come up with a better formula, or recruiting policy of judges, write it down. Present it to the powers that be. Articulate yourself not with emotion, but with logic, and then draw your conclusions about the organization on how they handle it.
For instance......Jacob has one year left in boys. He wants to move up into the jr mens division. According to the rules at WWA and at World Pub, because of his age, he would have to participate in the boys division one more year. We have spent some time with both WWA and Bisch, and the deciding factores of world pub. Both pros and cons from both sides were considered.(although there really isn't a con at all) and it looks like Jacob will be riding (Lord Willing) jr mens next year. Groundbreaking changes and yet handled with style by both WWA and World Pub.
Have I not understood judges decisions? Alot of times yes, at pro events, amateur events, slide show and boat show rail jams. Everybody is going to have a different subjective opinion. Conditions and venues and apparatus set ups, change. Weather,boat wakes and driving conditions change. And whether it be a wakeboard judge, surfing, or skateboard judge (remember Lords of Dogtown?) or basketball, football, wrestling, boxing judging, there has to be someone that has the final say.
Old     (behindtheboat)      Join Date: Aug 2006       06-26-2007, 10:30 AM Reply   
Formula= best riding wins (who lands the hardest, more advanced tricks, and rides with the most versatility ((which sounds like she did)).
Recruiting Judges= I'm sure it's not hard

I mostly get what you are saying, but in regards to drivers and judges, yes it would suck to endure what you described, but it is their job and the position they chose, just like I must endure problematic/ unsatisfied customers and sales reps in my chosen career. It's all customer relations, not an excuse in my book.
Old     (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       06-26-2007, 10:47 AM Reply   
robyn, i understand everything you said. i really do. what i don't understand is that how can one advance over a rider that;

a. did 2 mobes in their comp run,
b. slid the whole rail (the riders that advanced didn't slide the whole rail),
c. land 1 more trick than the 2 that advanced?

now, don't get me wrong. i'm not whining or anything. i've judged tournaments in the past (int in central cal). i know it's tough for those judging the pro riders so i've got nothing but respect for the job they do. also, i've got nothing against emily or dallas. they're 2 of my favorites, both professionally and personally. they were super fun to work with during the filming of the chick flick! simply put, they're 2 of the most down-to-earth people out there. i would like to know though how they advanced and raequel didn't. again, i'm not whining, just needing some help understanding how it works.

you're right, people make mistakes. if a mistake was made at nationals, why wasn't it corrected? they've done before in the past, why couldn't they do it again?

anyway, just looking for answers. thanks.
Old     (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       06-26-2007, 10:54 AM Reply   
Who were the judges?

Was it like the Pro Tour where Brian Grubb is sitting up there judging his fellow Pointless / Hyperlite teammates / friends?
Old     (ktm250)      Join Date: Jan 2003       06-26-2007, 10:55 AM Reply   
I would gladly be a part of the solution if ANY of the advice/suggestions that have been presented over the years had been given even a look! I am involved and have been for many years, on a couple of levels.

I am referring specifically to "Pro" events...by the very definition of the word they should be run/treated differently than an amateur contest. You mention judging in other sports "basketball, football, wrestling, boxing"...I have yet to see George Forman judging a boxing match or Michael Jordan with a zebra shirt on, maybe Carrie Underwood's roomate should judge whether she can sing or not…professional contests deserve professional judging and at the same time equal enforcement of the rules for all competitors…and this is where the system fails.

Do you see these contests growing? What about when women were all but removed from the tour against all the sponsors wishes…is that evolution or greed? What happened to X-Games? Where are the crowds that used to attend? The very definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over and expect a different outcome…well guess where we are.

Is judging difficult? You bet it is…but you as the judge took the responsibility so do it right or step aside; no one forced this upon you.

I am happy your son made junior men, that is great, but I am talking about “professional wakeboarding” where people are being paid based on performance/wins, photos etc…when a disservice is done it is costly both in dollars at the event and future income.
Old     (ktm250)      Join Date: Jan 2003       06-26-2007, 11:07 AM Reply   
Joe,
The answer given was that her tricks were "low" and that Emily rode "bigger".

To be fair Emily did ride bigger and Raquel's tricks did not have the same altitude; however, they were many times more difficult since the 540 and backroll stuff lines up trick for trick and Raquel did beat her on the slider...

None of it makes sense.
Old     (teamvaldez)      Join Date: Apr 2003       06-26-2007, 11:32 AM Reply   
The pro tours and wakeboardings growth (or decline) is based on alot of factors. It is strange on how some venues pull more spectators than others. Public relations and media is a factor, and yes, judging and driving is also a factor. Do I have the answers to your questions regarding Raquels (or anybody elses) run for that matter? Heck no, I am merely pointing out and discussing observations that we all have had.And being apart of throwing grassroots contests for the last 10 years has given me some level of insight.
As far as the contrast of jr men and "professional wakeboarding" now you are in my element. ALL ages are under the heading of being paid based on performance/wins,photos etc. Some just more than others. Handling oneself and what peoples perception of who you are start at the amateur level. You can win the battle and lose the war. JR mens is huge in promotion and advertising and for that matter, boys has done alright by us as well!
So to sumise my thoughts into one, it would have to be that life (and judging) is not always fair. It is not going change if we don't get involved with trying to change it.
Zedz, it is funny that you bring up Foreman, boxing is notoriously known for having crooked judging.
Joe, you know I love you, and I know your thoughts on Dallas and Emily. Again, it is so hard to be subjective for me, due to this moms heart that I have beating in me. Dallas is like a daughter to me. I have watched Melissa grow up, and love her as well. Emily is one of the sweetest girls I have ever met. And now the Hoffmans and Shelby Kantor are taking up real estate in my chest.
At the finals level, I have no clue to why it went the way it did. Melissa rode the best I have ever seen her ride in a comp. And Dallas (after her fall) rode great as well. Emily didn't have her greatest day, so I didn't even factor her into podium. It was either Melissa or Dallas in my book. I didn't even think Amber came close, but that is my opinion and I am not the judge.
I appreciate different thoughts, and love a great discussion,thanks!
Old     (bflat53212)      Join Date: Mar 2003       06-26-2007, 11:38 AM Reply   
Zedz, I think you answered your own question. Example, would you rather watch The Vandall take a grabbed 3 out 30 feet into the flats all stalled-out-spinning like or somebody going wake-to-wake throwing mobe-after-mobe. Me personally, the person throwing the 3 30 feet out into the flats is the better rider. Just my opinion and exactly why comps are hard to judge.

Why most newbies don't do well at constest is not necessarily because they are being discriminated against, but because they don't understand what judges are looking for in your run.
Old     (headhunter)      Join Date: Jun 2007       06-26-2007, 11:39 AM Reply   
Jr.Women should get the same props as Jr. Men!!!
Old     (teamvaldez)      Join Date: Apr 2003       06-26-2007, 11:58 AM Reply   
Thats a whole different thread headhunter!
Old     (ktm250)      Join Date: Jan 2003       06-26-2007, 12:27 PM Reply   
We can beat this dead horse more but IMHO Raquel was robbed and it was a disservice to her, her sponsors, the sponsors of the event and ultimatley the fans. The reality is that this situation effects more than just those named on the score sheets.

If the parents of riders, the riders and WakeWorld posters can't figure out the judging then what do you expect from the average Joe and his family?

Valdez, all the factors you mention about the reduced crowds are controled by one organization...WSM. I didn't mention boxing first you did in the previous post but I certainly believe there are some similarities.

I enjoy watching all types of riding, but when it comes to contests the formula (as mentioned above) is simple: land the hardest, most advanced tricks, ride with the most versatility and incorporate the apparatus in the water (where applicable)...you win or at least you should.

Good luck Raquel...I'm out.
Old     (behindtheboat)      Join Date: Aug 2006       06-26-2007, 12:33 PM Reply   
my head is now spinning

so what can be done to keep this from happeing in the future? Obviously there was some sort of marketing of the event, did they want "top" competitors remaining in the finals?

Steve, in a comp amplitude does matter, but I disagree. There is an awesome form of art in R. Harris going 30 ft out on a more "simple" trick, but I also find it an art when people can link tricks precisely, and get technical in moves in order to stand out. Thats what the competition brings, riders must link tricks, and not hold back but still be catious that they still have tricks to do in a certain amount of room, and hit that slider on the way. It's not freeriding. Raquel getting an extra trick in adds to this arguement in my view. She had the course and what she needed to do figured out better than those that beat her, making her the better rider.
Old     (teamvaldez)      Join Date: Apr 2003       06-26-2007, 1:19 PM Reply   
"Valdez, all the factors you mention about the reduced crowds are controled by one organization...WSM. I didn't mention boxing first you did in the previous post but I certainly believe there are some similarities"
Wow, not since I played sports in high school have I been called "Valdez" I have been called Robyn, Mrs Valdez, Momma Valdez, Mom V but never Valdez.
As far as Raquel is concerned, again, she handled it well. Again, in finals, I thought Melissa killed it with her composition, grabs and style as well as sliders, but I didn't call the 1st place win by a longshot. Go figure. As far as boxing goes, along with the other sports aforementioned, there is always those that are unhappy with the turnout. Not everybody can win at all times.
As far as dead horse, this is a discussion board, it is merely discussing a topic and maybe coming to terms that agree to disagree.

(Message edited by teamvaldez on June 26, 2007)
Old     (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       06-26-2007, 1:22 PM Reply   
robyn, not to disrespect, but wow, i've never heard amber wing's riding described as "much less stylish." imo, she has more style than most guys out there.
Old     (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       06-26-2007, 1:27 PM Reply   
agree. I drove chase for Amber. That chick is a rider.
Old     (teamvaldez)      Join Date: Apr 2003       06-26-2007, 1:28 PM Reply   
Joe, you are so right, that didn't come out right at all. thanks for catching that. I stand corrected. Amber Wing is an awesome rider that is pushing the sport for women.
Old     (ktm250)      Join Date: Jan 2003       06-26-2007, 1:34 PM Reply   
Mrs. Valdez with all due respect I apologize for not catching the slip of referring to you in less than respectful manner (i.e. Valdez)...it was not intentional I assure you.
Old     (teamvaldez)      Join Date: Apr 2003       06-26-2007, 1:48 PM Reply   
Upload
Old     (spin2win)      Join Date: Feb 2006       06-26-2007, 2:59 PM Reply   
I dont know if any of you were watching nationals when Mark Kenney went up against Danny Harf and the same issue was brought up. But this has been going on for years and years. Just ask Zane! my.02 However, I think the Hoffmans' are making the girls step it up. I am tired of watching runs that won 6 years ago win the runs today. girls riding hit a HUGEW plataue until recently and I think a lot of the cred is at that SWEET MOVIE THE CHICK FLICK. lol but it was sweet
Old     (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       06-26-2007, 3:01 PM Reply   
No doubt. You've got Hoffman landing two mobes, Amber landing 7s....what's next? It will be hard for Dallas to maintain her position once Raquel backs up that pass with a Pete Rose.
Old     (kneeboarddad)      Join Date: Sep 2005       06-26-2007, 3:38 PM Reply   
There is nothing new here. Stuff happens. If you have a kid or family member that competes you have a story where they absolutely got robbed. I can say I have noticed a huge improvement in judging over the past few years. I think Bisch has done a good job of changing the things that have been criticized here..

There is room to improve but I would say this year has been really, really good to watch both men and women. And the ladies are stepping it up big time. Leaps and bounds improvement from 2 years ago and lots of new faces.

As far as knowing what judges are looking for? That is a million dollar question. I move that Bisch be given a monthly section in WBM called "The Judges Corner" and he could share how judges are picked, trained and what they look for. Break down a close run between a couple of riders and explain why one rider won over the other. I think it would be cool to see how they do it.

If I were asked (and I will never be asked) I would say there should be some basic principles. For instance, a rider should throw at least one trick from each type such as one railey trick, one spin, one mobe and one switch.

You gotta love the respect mama Valdez gets. I mean Mrs. Valdez
Old     (janzy)      Join Date: Aug 2004       06-26-2007, 4:08 PM Reply   
"Wow, not since I played sports in high school have I been called "Valdez" I have been called Robyn, Mrs Valdez, Momma Valdez, Mom V but never Valdez."

You make it sound as if that was rude. I mean, for somebody who knows you only from this forum where you post under the name of TeamValdez, it seem only normal that someone would call you TeamValdez, or Valdez for short.
Old     (westsidarider)      Join Date: Feb 2003       06-26-2007, 4:10 PM Reply   
yup this sort of this happens from a.m. all the way though the pro level. its all about the name you have. the judges will always put someon though that has a name that the crowd will recognize. when i used to ride the pro tour about 4 years ago i had shane bonifay, cody hall, chad sharpe, and shaun murray all in my heat. top 4 went on. i stood my run and hit all the rails. beat cody hall out and should have outted shane but he had the bigger name and thats what the judges want. its just politics and thats the way it goes. part of being on the top is puttin your time in for quite a while until your name is familiar with everyone and your constantly gettin shots in the mag. it does suck big time but the hoffman girls are still young enought to be able to stick out the long haul
Old     (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       06-26-2007, 4:48 PM Reply   
I don't think she took offense, Jan.
Old     (wakeworld)      Join Date: Jan 1997       06-26-2007, 4:57 PM Reply   
Robyn, you were married in high school?
Old     (supradoug)      Join Date: Dec 2001       06-26-2007, 5:26 PM Reply   
Robyn was probably never actually "in" school.....I think that is what she called the social time........Just don't call her Henry, if you call Her Henry, a big ol boy shows up.....lol
Old     (teamvaldez)      Join Date: Apr 2003       06-26-2007, 5:39 PM Reply   
Yea, Dave, back in the hood.

Doug, don't make me chase you by running backwards in my flip flops!!

David Hair, you can call me mama valdez anytime. Did Austin tell you how we worked together to get Nick Jones from Ohare? Love the chicago bus system, puts LA's to shame!!

(Message edited by teamvaldez on June 26, 2007)
Old     (shellyrn)      Join Date: May 2006       06-26-2007, 6:14 PM Reply   
Those of us that know and ride with the Hoffmans know what Raequel is capable of doing. She definitely has the "top" riders scrambling to learn new tricks and revamp their runs. It's just a matter of time before she blows them out and stands atop the podium. The whole family is a class act and a great addition to the sport. Keep your head up Raequel and you know our number if you want to get some extra pulls in!!
Old     (kevin_middleton)      Join Date: Jul 2006       06-26-2007, 7:01 PM Reply   
There really is an answer. Although I have posted this before it is worth posting again.

We need a scoreboard. Think snowboarding!
Key pads with the judges and show the score a few min. after the rider is done.
Many issues are solved.
Old     (driving)      Join Date: Jan 2003       06-26-2007, 7:08 PM Reply   
I don't really have time to read this entire thread, I have merely glanced at it, so if there are things I have missed don't jump on me. But if you think judges put someone through because of their name you are crazy. They put people through on what they think is best! Every judge wants to see something different. That is why they have multiple judges instead of just one, to try and round things out. I feel the judging is pretty solid, and definitely has improved from year to year. Are there calls made that some people don't understand...of course. There are arguments between judges at times, but, judging is completely subjective, so they believe what they believe. Not becuase they are trying to screw someone, or they are buddies with them, but because that's how they see it. Anytime you have a question about the scoring, you can ask, and it will be explained to you. Are you always going to like or agree with the explantion? No. But, when everyone involved feels passionately about what they are saying, then at some point you just have to agree to disagree. And, if judges are repeatedly telling you something, then maybe you have to try to accommodate that a little. A smart athlete in any sport would do that.

All that being said, I didn't see any of the women's riding. And, yes, the Hoffman's are stepping up the game quite a bit. It's refreshing. Hopefully more to come.
Old     (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       06-26-2007, 7:28 PM Reply   
travis, you have my number? if so, give me a call. if not, shame on you!
Old     (zuka666)      Join Date: Aug 2005       06-26-2007, 7:47 PM Reply   
Well said Travis... I lost to a 250lb back in the day and all he did was grabs...

BTW...I come dropin' bombs, no mobes though

Joe whats up...I've gotta ride w/ you folks some day as well as Mr. Rodman
Old     (jarabacoa)      Join Date: Aug 2002       06-27-2007, 6:10 AM Reply   
There's always World's. It's not like her skills were taking away from her because she didn't advance..maybe some pride. I am sure she will come to Reno an even better rider. Her pass alone said so much more to women's wakeboarding, than advancing to the finals could ever say.
Old     (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       06-27-2007, 7:42 AM Reply   
Nice words Michelle.
Old     (behindtheboat)      Join Date: Aug 2006       06-27-2007, 7:43 AM Reply   
How is that Jar? Her more advanced moves were not enough to advance her. Where's the motivation? How did that do anything to advance womens wakeboarding? More or less says everyone says they want to see womens riding pushed, new tricks landed, but it doesn't matter in a comp, only pictures.
Old     (jarabacoa)      Join Date: Aug 2002       06-27-2007, 8:57 AM Reply   
A-dub,
I was simply trying to focus on the positive, not the judging. It's okay to do that sometimes.
Old     (bftskir)      Join Date: Jan 2004       06-27-2007, 9:34 AM Reply   
this same kind of controversy exists in barefooting.
the judges are volunteers, not paid, not professional(at least ours aren't). and they do not practice judging a fraction of the time the athletes practice boarding(footing)...and they are not judged on their judging except in a conversation like this one.
the nature of any sport with any kind of judging is that mistakes will be made, results will be flawed, and life is not always fair in fact it rarely ever is fair...there is always the next competition...
i took second in wake slalom to a friend of mine who cannot even do back one foot wakes...but the judges paid him for back ones???? i just laughed it off...but it did go in the books that way...since you guys actually have money involved i can see why it is more contensious...i would have been po'd if i lost cash!
Old     (malibuboarder75)      Join Date: Jan 2004       06-27-2007, 9:55 AM Reply   
A female lands 2 handle pass mobes, something that very few women can do (if any), and doesn't advance? Plus the rest of her run was solid.

Girls have been doing wrapped KGBs forever. It is about time a young gun female rider steps up the level of riding. Hopefully something like this will push her even more.
Old     (innov8)      Join Date: May 2005       06-27-2007, 9:57 AM Reply   
Kevin has the right idea on what needs to happen IMO:
We need a scoreboard. Think snowboarding!
Key pads with the judges and show the score a few min. after the rider is done.
Many issues are solved.

Not only do I think it will help the judging, but I also think this would help the riders know what the judges are scoring big and not, so It would help the riders as well.
All the other action sports are judged this way, Skate, snow, bmx,Freestyle motocross, Ect, Ect!!
Old     (shellyrn)      Join Date: May 2006       06-27-2007, 3:30 PM Reply   
Thanks J-Rod. It was actually my husband using my account!
Old     (driving)      Join Date: Jan 2003       06-27-2007, 3:42 PM Reply   
J2, those must have been some sick grabs!
Old     (zuka666)      Join Date: Aug 2005       06-27-2007, 3:55 PM Reply   
, Travis, my boy Heath "had" a front slob that looked like a grabbed cartwheel, scare crow, blind 3, and a tantrum to blind. Now he's super fatand too lazy to get off the couch...Hope he's not reading

He's got the grabs though, too bad he's not on a skate! He'd be somewhere, skinny though

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