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Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       09-27-2017, 6:59 PM Reply   
So this wanted Homiside Roach lead police on a High speed chase threw Richmond and it ended in Emeryville on Hwy 80 this morning. It Blocked traffic in both direction for hrs. The guy decided to get out of his SUV and start shooting at the cops. (Not a great Idea) thank god he was not black! And it's on video.

Going threw these YouTube videos. It's so strange to hear how people are so quick to say thinks like "He had his hands up and they just shot him" "they shot him for no reason" when you can clearly see from other videos he exits the SUV shooting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmAn1ibnPwQ&sns=em

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGjGtXe1Zxk&sns=em

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VB7Rh-5Nlwk&sns=em

Last edited by grant_west; 09-27-2017 at 7:01 PM.
Old     (Shawn)      Join Date: Aug 2011       09-27-2017, 8:50 PM Reply   
Perfect example of why "eye witness" accounts are just an example of perception and not always an accurate representation of what really happened. Video three it is hard to tell why he was fired upon when exiting while video one is clear as day and warranted.

Suicide by cop...not sure how he would have comprehend nay other outcome.
Old     (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       09-28-2017, 6:23 AM Reply   
By the appearance of the first two vids, some of those guys need to hit the range!
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       09-28-2017, 6:37 AM Reply   
i have seen a few more videos of this shooting and almost everyone is the same in regards to when the bullets start flying the person hits the deck & then the video is no longer a accurate story teller because people are naturally hiding for cover, I can only assume that people can't see the whole shooting play out in real time as well. They only see one angle & then when the bullets start flying they run for cover. Many people can be over heard in the back ground of these videos saying things like "Why did they have to shoot him" "He had his hands up" Yea right! other video shows he had his hands up right b4 he pulled out a gun and started blasting. It's easy to see how "Hands Up DONT shoot " got started & then the Media & community ran with that false narrative and boom BLM is born.
Old     (racer808)      Join Date: Jan 2013       09-28-2017, 7:17 AM Reply   
Looks like it was just warning shots to the chest, no biggie
Old     (deneng)      Join Date: Feb 2005       09-28-2017, 8:02 AM Reply   
Nice job. These officers have to do this day in and day out. They can not assume that a bad guy is going to not shoot him after they have given instruction to stay safe and follow commands. This guy had the opportunity to follow directions , but he decided to take his chances.
Old     (racer808)      Join Date: Jan 2013       09-28-2017, 8:15 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by deneng View Post
Nice job. These officers have to do this day in and day out. They can not assume that a bad guy is going to not shoot him after they have given instruction to stay safe and follow commands. This guy had the opportunity to follow directions , but he decided to take his chances.
If anyone has ever taken any sort of defense & fire arms training you have split seconds to make a decision. As a citizen with a conceal carry it would be your right to have shot this guy dead in the face. But we're gonna tell cops they have be without that right & let their families know they may not make it home that night cause idiot liberals demand they take a few to the chest before returning fire. If it was me, bet your ass I am the one that is going to shoot so I can go home that night. Idiots that do this stuff gave up their right when they decided to break the law & try to fire at police. Why is critical thinking so short on the left?
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       09-28-2017, 10:36 AM Reply   
^ Jack I think THATS the difference between "putting your life on the line" & "shooting first & ask questions later" I will admit this I'm a shoot first ask questions later person but that's why I'm not a cop or could ever be one. They are forced many times to be shot at first. How many traffic stop ambush videos do we have to see to realize that being a cop is a very hard job. Same it true for the military often they have chase bad guys into houses to clear them & place their life on the line doing it, would it be safer to just throw a grenade in the room & "Frag" everyone & clear it that way YES, is it, but unfortunately that's not how it's done. Respect
Old     (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       09-28-2017, 8:50 PM Reply   
Unfortunately with the advent of body cams these knee jerk reactions from haters will be more and more and more . The fact of the matter is body cams and videos alike only tell one angle of a situation. As seen here imagine the one angle only captured is one of those angles where you can't see anything ............the amount of bs that happens from these activists and left wing police haters after every use of force incident is complete $&^%%. They don't care about actual facts . To your point Grant, it has gotten to the point that police ultimately need to take fire first before being justified , and even then it's a 50/50 chance you won't be labeled a racist.



I personally would love to give the libtards and activists exactly what they want. Pull all the police out of their neighborhoods and see what happens. Why we haven't reached that point yet where someone hasn't made that push is beyond me. let them police themselves and send the bleeding hearts with em

Last edited by xstarrider; 09-28-2017 at 8:58 PM.
Old    TheWakeIsReal            09-28-2017, 9:48 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by xstarrider View Post
Unfortunately with the advent of body cams these knee jerk reactions from haters will be more and more and more . The fact of the matter is body cams and videos alike only tell one angle of a situation. As seen here imagine the one angle only captured is one of those angles where you can't see anything ............the amount of bs that happens from these activists and left wing police haters after every use of force incident is complete $&^%%. They don't care about actual facts . To your point Grant, it has gotten to the point that police ultimately need to take fire first before being justified , and even then it's a 50/50 chance you won't be labeled a racist.



I personally would love to give the libtards and activists exactly what they want. Pull all the police out of their neighborhoods and see what happens. Why we haven't reached that point yet where someone hasn't made that push is beyond me. let them police themselves and send the bleeding hearts with em
Or pay you guys more. I've said it over and over on here. You guys should be paid way more for the job you do. You're taking bullets, you should be making way more. More people will sign up because of the money, screening for nut jobs will go up. Win win.
Old    Raffit78            09-29-2017, 2:33 AM Reply   
White Lives Matter.
Old     (deneng)      Join Date: Feb 2005       09-29-2017, 8:27 AM Reply   
Wow i was for body cams, but from what you posted It puts a different light on the situation. I do not see how a cop can make the correct decision 100% of the time on every situation. With all the liberal supported protocals coming into effect their must be a lot of loop holes that either puts the protectors in a high danger situation. Paying cops more is not going to do anything you still have people out there that either put themselves in bad situations just because they want to **** with police officers trying to make their community a safe place. Maybe they need more ride alongs for these people who think that cops are so bad. You can have one officer totally for protecting all of these dicks 99.9% of the time, but that one instance when everything is turned against him happens turns into a cluster****.
Police officers are professionals who often put their community they protect above all else.I used too think like the liberals do about the individuals that take the oath to protect and serve and i am truly sorry. I support the individual and the force now.Cops in the U.S. are awesome.

Last edited by deneng; 09-29-2017 at 8:31 AM.
Old     (buffalow)      Join Date: Apr 2002       09-29-2017, 10:09 AM Reply   
I also have a CCW and could never EVER be an officer. I have nothing but the utmost respect for them. I live in a very state community (2 offices per 1000 citizens) and we all love our officers. We often BBQ for them, have them over at private functions and they are at ever event in town. They are part of the community instead of just rule it. I live in live it to beaver town. Than being said. When I leave my bubble and enter Stockton or even the bay area now, I have a sense of uneasiness and happy to have a .45 on my hip. I have spent countless hours at the range and am a damn good shot, but that it piece of paper and not a human being. I don't know that can pull the trigger or how accurate I would be in that situation ad I have never been in it. I would assume out of 10 rounds, one will do the trick, but I hope I never have to find out. I have had to pull my weapon on two crackheads in the last year that came up on me, but was not in fear for my life enough to pull the trigger. While body cams are a great tool for many reasons, I am not sure why the footage every gets into the media. That is the possession of the police and should only be released in a court room. I am not one that says all cops are perfect and never make mistakes. There are bad cops and there are situations where maybe there was another way, but if you deal with scumbags ever day all day you get tired on the nonsense and live on the edge every minute. You are a sitting duck everywhere you turn and now with phones, you are guilty until proven innocent as an officer. My training, which is minimal compared to offers says, "never fire a warning shot", "never shoot for anything less than dead", and most importantly "fire only when it is your or the man across from you".
I am old school - I stand for my flag and my anthem. I stand for the military and people that serve the community. I stand and protect my first and second amendment rights.
Old     (racer808)      Join Date: Jan 2013       09-29-2017, 10:24 AM Reply   
The irony here is how the left makes an incredible unknown argument in favor of Robocop
Old     (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       09-29-2017, 11:50 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by psudy View Post
By the appearance of the first two vids, some of those guys need to hit the range!
Do you shoot much? Because that a damn long shot with a pistol. I train two weekends a month and I still see that as a hard shot, especially with a moving target and under pressure.
Old     (buffalow)      Join Date: Apr 2002       09-29-2017, 12:13 PM Reply   
JROD I agree - with as much as I got to the range, I do so calmly, methodically and with the intent to hurt a target. I never do so on the run or with blood pumping or with the thought that the target may shoot at me.
Old     (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       09-29-2017, 12:49 PM Reply   
Buff- are you carrying a 45 for your daily? is it a 1911 platform? I'm looking for a new CCW but having a hard time finding something that can remain hidden 100%. I like the shield 9mm.

Also, just curious. Have you ever disclosed the CCW permit and weapon to a bay area officer upon request and if so, how'd that go? I''m slightly worried about that even though most officers are 2cd amendment / conservative types.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       09-29-2017, 1:40 PM Reply   
Any of the single stack 9mm are great cary guns.The S&W shield is a great gun. We citizens can't get the cool Cary guns Example Rugar LCP is a Awesome small cary gun. But unless you buy one used from a cop threw a FFL you and I can't get one
Old     (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       09-29-2017, 2:04 PM Reply   
The new 9mm 124+p+ Rounds are phenomenal . Ditch the 45 and grab your favorite compact or subcompact polymer . I am partial to the Smith and Wesson M&P series . More rounds , smaller platform , easier to handle .
Old     (buffalow)      Join Date: Apr 2002       10-02-2017, 7:02 AM Reply   
JRod - I carry the Kimber Ulta Carry 2 - It is compact and very lightweight. I also have a shield 9 and shield 40. I prefer the kimber by far. I got a holder that I can wear with basketball shorts/sweats - I'll find the name of it. I just picked up a fully tricked Clock 17 that I may try to carry, but the kimber is tried and true.

Everything Have read on the forums (not stating facts), is that you ONLY mention the CCW if it comes up. NEVER mention it out the gate. Its pretty simple, if you are not doing something wrong, than you have nothing to worry about. I you get pulled over for a speeding ticket, there is not since escalating the situation with a weapon on your hip. From what I read and was told. That if the officer asks for more than your license and reg or asks you to step out of the car, that is the time to calmly tell them.

I have had two draw and rack my weapon twice in the last two years. In both cases, thank god, I did not have to pull a trigger. In both situations when the officers arrived. I had my hands in front of me and my loaded weapon in the holiest. When they arrived, I told them where my weapon was before I said a thing. In both cases they asked me to not reach for it and they would determine the situation once all parties were detained. Than they removed the weapon and checked my ccw. I was calm, not a jerk, and within my rights.

I have a big hand and just not as comfortable with the shield. All of my officer friends also recommend the shield and many carry them off duty. My hand just feels better on the .40/.45 frame even in the smaller size.

I will say that I just got a new kimber 1911 Custom CDP and it has to be the most accurate shooting weapon I currently have for me. It is so well balanced for a "big" gun and minimal kickback. It is really fun to shoot. To heavy to carry of course but really fun.
Old     (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       10-02-2017, 7:16 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jarrod View Post
Do you shoot much? .
Yes.
Old     (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       10-02-2017, 11:02 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by grant_west View Post
Any of the single stack 9mm are great cary guns.The S&W shield is a great gun. We citizens can't get the cool Cary guns Example Rugar LCP is a Awesome small cary gun. But unless you buy one used from a cop threw a FFL you and I can't get one
I own the LCP and LC9. I would describe them as okay guns. They are both double action pull. So while they're very light, compact, and reliable, they take lots of practice to shoot well.
Old     (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       10-02-2017, 11:03 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by xstarrider View Post
The new 9mm 124+p+ Rounds are phenomenal . Ditch the 45 and grab your favorite compact or subcompact polymer . I am partial to the Smith and Wesson M&P series . More rounds , smaller platform , easier to handle .

I'm currently shooting 147 grain HP sub-sonic for home defense and daily carry.
Old     (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       10-02-2017, 11:08 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by buffalow View Post
JRod - I carry the Kimber Ulta Carry 2 - It is compact and very lightweight. I also have a shield 9 and shield 40. I prefer the kimber by far. I got a holder that I can wear with basketball shorts/sweats - I'll find the name of it. I just picked up a fully tricked Clock 17 that I may try to carry, but the kimber is tried and true.

Everything Have read on the forums (not stating facts), is that you ONLY mention the CCW if it comes up. NEVER mention it out the gate. Its pretty simple, if you are not doing something wrong, than you have nothing to worry about. I you get pulled over for a speeding ticket, there is not since escalating the situation with a weapon on your hip. From what I read and was told. That if the officer asks for more than your license and reg or asks you to step out of the car, that is the time to calmly tell them.

I have had two draw and rack my weapon twice in the last two years. In both cases, thank god, I did not have to pull a trigger. In both situations when the officers arrived. I had my hands in front of me and my loaded weapon in the holiest. When they arrived, I told them where my weapon was before I said a thing. In both cases they asked me to not reach for it and they would determine the situation once all parties were detained. Than they removed the weapon and checked my ccw. I was calm, not a jerk, and within my rights.

I have a big hand and just not as comfortable with the shield. All of my officer friends also recommend the shield and many carry them off duty. My hand just feels better on the .40/.45 frame even in the smaller size.

I will say that I just got a new kimber 1911 Custom CDP and it has to be the most accurate shooting weapon I currently have for me. It is so well balanced for a "big" gun and minimal kickback. It is really fun to shoot. To heavy to carry of course but really fun.
Interesting. On my license, rule number 1 says I must disclose to an officer in any incident that I'm carrying and permitted. Failure to disclose immediately can result in forfeit of license. I also have 10 days to report any incident, traffic or otherwise to placer county.

I am interested in knowing what you are using to holster / conceal. I have inside waist band holders for G-19 and LC9. They are good for heavy winter clothing, but not good for T-shirts only. I usually go fanny packet for this.
Old     (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       10-02-2017, 11:29 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by buffalow View Post
JRod - I carry the Kimber Ulta Carry 2 - It is compact and very lightweight. I also have a shield 9 and shield 40. I prefer the kimber by far. I got a holder that I can wear with basketball shorts/sweats - I'll find the name of it. I just picked up a fully tricked Clock 17 that I may try to carry, but the kimber is tried and true.

Everything Have read on the forums (not stating facts), is that you ONLY mention the CCW if it comes up. NEVER mention it out the gate. Its pretty simple, if you are not doing something wrong, than you have nothing to worry about. I you get pulled over for a speeding ticket, there is not since escalating the situation with a weapon on your hip. From what I read and was told. That if the officer asks for more than your license and reg or asks you to step out of the car, that is the time to calmly tell them.

I have had two draw and rack my weapon twice in the last two years. In both cases, thank god, I did not have to pull a trigger. In both situations when the officers arrived. I had my hands in front of me and my loaded weapon in the holiest. When they arrived, I told them where my weapon was before I said a thing. In both cases they asked me to not reach for it and they would determine the situation once all parties were detained. Than they removed the weapon and checked my ccw. I was calm, not a jerk, and within my rights.

I have a big hand and just not as comfortable with the shield. All of my officer friends also recommend the shield and many carry them off duty. My hand just feels better on the .40/.45 frame even in the smaller size.

I will say that I just got a new kimber 1911 Custom CDP and it has to be the most accurate shooting weapon I currently have for me. It is so well balanced for a "big" gun and minimal kickback. It is really fun to shoot. To heavy to carry of course but really fun.
Don't want to threadjack here , but if you're gonna carry , why is you weapon not loaded and ready to go while in its holster. It pretty much defeats any use of your weapon in an "emergency" situation. By the time you rack the slide after you draw , you'll have lost the battle .


As far as letting the police know you're armed , Every state has its own policies. Some states require CCW carriers to immediately notify the officer upon contact , some states require you to only notify when asked. Some states also have your CCW permit attached to your license , so when the police run it it pops up as a permit holder. Know your rights under the law. A simple mistake could cost you your permit and jail time .

The

Last edited by xstarrider; 10-02-2017 at 11:33 AM.
Old     (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       10-02-2017, 11:57 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by xstarrider View Post
Don't want to threadjack here , but if you're gonna carry , why is you weapon not loaded and ready to go while in its holster. It pretty much defeats any use of your weapon in an "emergency" situation. By the time you rack the slide after you draw , you'll have lost the battle .


As far as letting the police know you're armed , Every state has its own policies. Some states require CCW carriers to immediately notify the officer upon contact , some states require you to only notify when asked. Some states also have your CCW permit attached to your license , so when the police run it it pops up as a permit holder. Know your rights under the law. A simple mistake could cost you your permit and jail time .

The
In this case, the rules seem to vary slightly from county to county. I plan to play it safe and always disclose before asked.

Regarding the subject of carrying hot.....if the circumstances are where you have to draw/point/shoot quickly then you are correct. However not every situation is going to be likely that. Actually, the only situation that IS going to be like that is where you already have a gun pointed at you or close to it, or an active shooter.

My reason for asking about CCW is because I currently have two Glocks that don't have safety as you probably know. I'm a little uneasy about carry a hot glock, especially when the weapon is being handled multiple times per day. In and out of the holster, truck safe, etc....I would prefer to carry hot with a thumb safety, which the Shield 9mm has.
Old     (buffalow)      Join Date: Apr 2002       10-02-2017, 1:21 PM Reply   
Swatguy - Generally I am fully loaded and racked. There are times I am not, but I agree. If you carry, than you are stacked and ready. Also since I am pretty new to guns and CCW, for the first you, I just felt more comfortable not racked, even though I understand the logic. Now that I have many more weapons and always carry and have shot thousands of more rounds, I stay load and ready.

I am like JRod in I don't feel that safe with my Glocks, I know the trigger safety and all of that, but just don't feel that comfortable yet. In a perfect world we would always remain hot, but I am just not at that point yet. If I am going out of my comfort zone like hanging out in stockton than I am always hot. I do fully understand the logic that an active shooter can happen anywhere at anytime. I just don't want to make a deadly mistake with a hot weapon as I too handle it a few times a day.

You sound more knowledgable than I for sure. That is just what I have ben told and read, but sounds like I should know the law for sure.
Old     (buffalow)      Join Date: Apr 2002       10-02-2017, 1:23 PM Reply   
This is not the exact holster I have for my carry, but similar. It heats up with your skin and does not move. I wear basketball shorts pretty much every day of my life, and this is what I carry.

This works for my shield 9, glock 17, and kimber ultra carry with no issues

https://www.amazon.com/STICKY-HOLSTE...ketball+shorts

Last edited by buffalow; 10-02-2017 at 1:23 PM. Reason: Added a note
Old     (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       10-02-2017, 3:26 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jarrod View Post

Regarding the subject of carrying hot.....if the circumstances are where you have to draw/point/shoot quickly then you are correct. However not every situation is going to be likely that. Actually, the only situation that IS going to be like that is where you already have a gun pointed at you or close to it, or an active shooter.
I am not sure who teaches your CCW classes or what your state requirements are, but here the only your taught the only time you draw is when you're ready and able to pull the trigger. You shouldn't be drawing with the only expectation to display and intimidate someone. So you should have one in the chamber all the time. There is NEVER a time when pulling an unloaded weapon is advantageous NEVER!

I can understand the hesitation of carrying with one in the chamber while getting comfortable with new platform , valid reason to get more and more comfortable. There are also other options to ease your mind about the striker fire triggers being sensitive. The Springfield XD series has a secondary grip safety for the added protection. Some have an optional thumb safety. All in all do what's in your comfort zone for sure , but carrying a non- chambered CCW gun is not a great habit to keep forever. Stress , adrenaline , nerves and the numerous other things that happen when a violent encounter is right in front of you will all diminish your motor skills , your brain functions and in weapon handling skills. Simple reloads and racking the slide can be next to impossible unless you train like a mad man to always do that .

Obviously I am more comfortable than most handling firearms as it's a daily routine . But I have never had one concern about about carrying my M&P , Glock , or Springfield polymers with one in the chamber . The most important thing about CCW aside from the obvious training , is buying a quality holster . Those el cheapo IWB holsters that collapse from bass pro or wherever are garbage . You want a quality holster that will retain its mold when the weapon is drawn so you can put it back cleanly when the situation is deescalated. A quality holster also prevents opportunities for negligent discharges when holstering.
Old     (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       10-02-2017, 3:59 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by xstarrider View Post
I am not sure who teaches your CCW classes or what your state requirements are, but here the only your taught the only time you draw is when you're ready and able to pull the trigger. You shouldn't be drawing with the only expectation to display and intimidate someone. So you should have one in the chamber all the time. There is NEVER a time when pulling an unloaded weapon is advantageous NEVER!

I can understand the hesitation of carrying with one in the chamber while getting comfortable with new platform , valid reason to get more and more comfortable. There are also other options to ease your mind about the striker fire triggers being sensitive. The Springfield XD series has a secondary grip safety for the added protection. Some have an optional thumb safety. All in all do what's in your comfort zone for sure , but carrying a non- chambered CCW gun is not a great habit to keep forever. Stress , adrenaline , nerves and the numerous other things that happen when a violent encounter is right in front of you will all diminish your motor skills , your brain functions and in weapon handling skills. Simple reloads and racking the slide can be next to impossible unless you train like a mad man to always do that .

Obviously I am more comfortable than most handling firearms as it's a daily routine . But I have never had one concern about about carrying my M&P , Glock , or Springfield polymers with one in the chamber . The most important thing about CCW aside from the obvious training , is buying a quality holster . Those el cheapo IWB holsters that collapse from bass pro or wherever are garbage . You want a quality holster that will retain its mold when the weapon is drawn so you can put it back cleanly when the situation is deescalated. A quality holster also prevents opportunities for negligent discharges when holstering.
------------

We are trained by State approved individuals and agencies only. It is true that there's never a time to pull an unloaded weapon, but there are times where carrying loaded is not worth the risk in my opinion. We are trained to carry however you feel comfortable and then to be consistent and always carry the same way. My reluctance in some situations is caused by:

1. Handling the weapon multiple times a day with no safety, and the risk of catching the trigger on something. From holster, to truck safe, to brief case and back again. There are many opportunities for mistake.

2. I was recently in a situation where a .357 pistol was dropped and it fired. It was a revolver which had NOT been cocked and it malfunctioned due to a broken or defective part. I see no reason why this couldn't happen with a semi also. If my weapon was to stay in the holster all day everyday, I would feel comfortable hot. Also, back to my original question for Buff, if I had a sub-compact like a Shield with a thumb safety I would also carry hot 100% of the time, instead of about 50%. But in some situations, for now, I clear the chamber and run unloaded some of the time. In my opinion it is still far better than having nothing. A threat comes my way, another driver pulls, a shooting breaks out in the movie theater......I still have a chance to rack and go. The right weapon will change that. I do very much like the grip safety.

Also, I'm using Alien Gear holsters.
Old     (buffalow)      Join Date: Apr 2002       10-05-2017, 7:30 AM Reply   
I appreciate the open and honest discussions on this matter. It is nice to talk with intelligent men that can have a rational discussion. Swatguy - I really appreciate your input and have though a lot about your comments, which is the whole reason for even talking about it. I am learning to become a gun guy, but new to the game so all input is good to me! Thanx

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