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Go Back   WakeWorld > >> Boats, Accessories & Tow Vehicles Archive > Archive through December 26, 2006

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Old     (gabriel63)      Join Date: Sep 2005       11-06-2006, 3:47 PM Reply   
i am ready to put my boat away and i have fogging but dont know where to spray it. do u spray it in the fuel and water sperater?I have fuel injection any anwsers
Old     (derby)      Join Date: Nov 2005       11-06-2006, 3:52 PM Reply   
pop the plugs and spray it in the cylinders. crank the motor over by hand a few times and do it again. thats about all you can do...well and spray the plug tips.
Old     (26lacefield)      Join Date: Aug 2006       11-06-2006, 3:59 PM Reply   
you can mix together in a seperate gas tank about a gallon of gas, a little bit of 2 stroke oil for the gas, and a little bit of fuel stabilizer. connect the fuel line from that tank to were the fuel line for the boats tank goes and run the engine for a couple minutes. it does the job. pulling the plugs and spraying it in the cylinders would be better but take longer and be harder being most marine engine spark plugs are facing down are hard to get to. we do what i had suggested to our boats adn it works fine every time.
Old     (peter_c)      Join Date: Sep 2001       11-06-2006, 4:07 PM Reply   
With the engine running spray it down the throat of the throttle body until it stalls. If you have to do anti-freeze they need to be done at the same time. Make sure the gas tank is full then add some Stabil to the fuel.

You live in Cali, why are you winterizing? Keep riding! Berryessa is at it's best in the winter.
Old     (norcalmalibu)      Join Date: Jun 2004       11-06-2006, 4:36 PM Reply   
Well, im going to have to disagree with peter. Do not put any type of fogging spray in the T/B. They make T/B cleaners that should be applied non running and in a small amount. What you are doing is mixing a liquid into an intake that is designed to have AIR only. Ive seen what happens first hand when you have to much fuel or additives in a fuel injected intake the results are the intakes end up in pieces.
Old    bigrich            11-06-2006, 4:44 PM Reply   
Nate please elaborate. The intake breaks?? I used this method over the weekend to fog my engine but could not get it to stall. It started to stumble but then I shut it off.
Old     (peter_c)      Join Date: Sep 2001       11-06-2006, 6:57 PM Reply   
Yeah Nate, please explain...Have you ever done a fuel injection service? What brand of tool did you use, and where did you put the atomizer? Have you ever cleaned a throttle body? If so what did you use? How did you protect the TPS?

Exploding intakes

Rich, you are fine. The motor probably compensated fast enough that it didn't stall. Shutting it off is not a problem.
Old     (trace)      Join Date: Feb 2002       11-06-2006, 7:58 PM Reply   
I agree with Peter on all except one point. What I like to do is put Stabil in the tank when filling up for the last outing before winterization. It will get completely mixed up, and more importantly will be distributed thru the entire fuel system.

If you burn more than 1/2 tank or so, top it off on the way home and add enough more Stabil to cover the amount of fuel used to top it off.
Old     (norcalmalibu)      Join Date: Jun 2004       11-06-2006, 8:58 PM Reply   
Ive seen three intakes explode. All from using products that have a ethonol additive. Most intakes are plastic look at ford 4.6L and chevy 5.3L.

I have done a fuel injection service I run fuel injector cleaners through vacume lines but its mainly to clean carbon. I don't really feel anything off the self is going to clean injectors by stricly adding it to a gas tank or spraying a formula in an intake. The proper way is have them removed and professionaly cleaned at high psi. But in reality injectors prices have come down in price so why have them cleaned when you can buy new.


As for cleaning the T/B i get T/B cleaner and apply it to a rag and clean the blades
Old     (snyper1d)      Join Date: Mar 2005       11-06-2006, 9:57 PM Reply   
You can fog a TBI system, but the MPI is not recommended to be fogged down.
Old     (yosquire)      Join Date: Jun 2005       11-06-2006, 10:21 PM Reply   
http://www.pzlqs.com/Tech/Pdsheet/DomesticMarketing/Specialty/pdf/PennzoilMarineFoggingOil.PDF
Pennzoil says nothing about it.

So Nate, are you saying that the fogging oil is flammable and when the engine chokes out and back-spins it ignites the contents of the intake?
Old     (peter_c)      Join Date: Sep 2001       11-06-2006, 10:53 PM Reply   
Nate, how the heck did you have three intakes explode in your shop? Someone needs to find a new career of blowing condemed buildings up or something.

The proper way to do a fuel injection service is by disconnecting the fuel line(s) and running the vehicle off a fuel/cleanser mixture, while using an atomizer to clear the intake tract out. The service starts with a static cleaning then it's done running.

As to replacing injectors...you must have a lot of time and money because at $200 a pop, plus some vehicles take over 5 hours, it is not something reasonable. Even removal for cleaning is not feasible.

Throttle bodies rarely need to be cleaned as the ETV will compensate for pretty much anything these days. Even the IAC on older engines can overcome the slight restriction from carbon buildup.

There is no difference be it MPI or TBI. The engine is the same and that is what the spray is designed to protect.
Old     (norcalmalibu)      Join Date: Jun 2004       11-06-2006, 11:09 PM Reply   
peter you must work for a stealership because 200 a pop for an injector? what type are we talking about tbi injectors, low impedence, high? explain.

http://www.fiveomotorsport.com/Injector_SetsMODS.asp#bosch19

there is a site were the avg for a set of 8 is $300..

if the proper is disconencting the fuel lines to do a service, how do you develope the presure needed to run the motor? Im pretty sure that ford fuel systems as well as gm run in the mid 30s? Do you have some kind of pump on a bench system?

we can sit here and argue back and forth, I don't work in a shop just what I see with my own eyes. I work for a automotive parts shops and see all kind of retards. I don't reccomend using any type of cleaner in plastic intakes.

one thing im confused on is how do you consider a MPI intake and TBI intake the same? just because they both flow air?

I doubt the fogging oil is flammable craig, im personally not a fan of putting anything in MPI intakes.
Old     (peter_c)      Join Date: Sep 2001       11-06-2006, 11:38 PM Reply   
I would never work at a dealership. No longer do I work on cars either. Instead I spend my days working with shops, and attempt to train those idiots that you see.

Not everyone drives an American vehicle. Bosch builds most of the high end injectors and they are expensive. Try pricing a GM spider for a Vortec.

To perform a fuel injection service you use a tool that provides the fuel pressure and much more. Most vehicle today run a higher fuel pressure. Anywhere from 40-70 psi, depending on load.

MPI and TBI both use injectors. The only difference is where they are mounted and how many of them. Fogging oil can not get inside either type of injector. If the plastic intake can not handle oil, then the auto manufacturers need to go back to the drawing board, since every vehicle out there has oil of some type.

I am sure you agree that bare metal rusts and protected metal is less likely too?
Old     (norcalmalibu)      Join Date: Jun 2004       11-06-2006, 11:52 PM Reply   
Well thats good to know about the fuel injection service with fuel pressure from a bench. You really can learn something new everyday. There have been tons of fuel injections systems over the years. Calling out one of them proves nothing.


My argument was not against plastic intakes and oil my argument was against cleaners that contain ethanol see above.

But I was once a victim of to much oil in an intake. My last ford liked to puke up motor oil back into the intake, common problem with lightnings. One night as sears point the oil came to haunt me as the oil poured from the T/B down the intake tube and hit the MAF. It destroyed the filaments and left the trunk undrivable. I routinely cleaned the intake after that night.
Old     (trace)      Join Date: Feb 2002       11-07-2006, 8:45 AM Reply   
The other big difference between old school GM TBI and most all modern EFI is fuel pressure. TBI uses around 13 psi, just like a carb.

The only way I could see an intake exploding would be a very large timing problem, or some sensor in the intake short-circuiting somehow. I'm not sure how you even use throttle body cleaner while the motor is running on a MAF vehicle, though? Are you spraying it thru the MAF, or pulling the MAF off, spraying it in, and replacing the MAF really quickly before it stalls?

I've had to clean the TB on my plastic-intaked GM 5.3L a few times, they tend to get a sticky throttle from buildup. Never done it while it's running, though, see above.

Peter, what is an ETV? Maybe my knowledge is getting outdated, but I've cleaned and/or replaced several IAC's to fix idle problems.
Old     (norcalmalibu)      Join Date: Jun 2004       11-07-2006, 9:00 AM Reply   
Actually carbs never run near 13psi more like in the 5-7psi range.

Trace, one intake was on an explorer some retarted sprayed to much in the motor chocked out backfired and boom he was left with peices.
Old     (peter_c)      Join Date: Sep 2001       11-07-2006, 9:06 AM Reply   
Trace, check your TSB's (Technical service bulletins). GM has a replacement TB upgrade for some years of those motors (Will not be under warranty though).

ETV is electronic throttle valve. Modern engines do not use a throttle cable as it is cheaper not too. Want cruise control? Add in a module or program. All manufacturers have something called torque management, which pulls the power back on acceleration and at shift points. The ETV allows them to easily do that, and did I mentention it was cheaper to build.

Now I have heard of exploding intakes when someone (Read idiot) sprays something through a hot wire MAF sensor and maybe that is what they were doing? When doing a fuel injection service you put the atomizer into the throttle body after the MAF, and if they are combined, the PCV hose works well enough.

FWIW carbs run closer to 3-5 psi. Anything more would push the float seat open.
Old     (trace)      Join Date: Feb 2002       11-07-2006, 9:07 AM Reply   
A backfire does make sense.

My bad, it's been a while since I've messed with a carb that wasn't gravity-feed. :-)
Old     (trace)      Join Date: Feb 2002       11-07-2006, 9:17 AM Reply   
Yeah, I know there's a TSB, but I don't mind cleaning it every couple years, and a new TB ain't cheap.

Ah, drive-by-wire... got it. The only car I have right now that might have that is our 540i, and so far THAT part of it hasn't failed yet (unlike most of the rest of the car :\).

FWIW, the stupid azz torque mgt on my pickup (which I disabled after I installed a Transgo shift kit, BTW) was done by retarding the timing.
Old     (gabriel63)      Join Date: Sep 2005       11-09-2006, 6:12 PM Reply   
well my boat has 5.7 350 chevy fuel injection and its 2004. some one told me that it would be fine to spray the fogging in to the fuel and water seperator filter. yes i am puting the boat away so that i can bring out the dirt bikes.
Old     (boss210)      Join Date: Jun 2006       11-09-2006, 7:12 PM Reply   
F all that, put some stabil in the tank, top it off, give it a kiss and cover it. It's not cold enough in ca to worry aboout.
Old     (bigworm)      Join Date: Dec 2004       11-15-2006, 1:09 AM Reply   
fuel stabilzer in the tank, run it up to temp, fog the motor through the throttle body or carb till it sputters and there is lots of smoke coming out of the exhaust, shut off and pull plugs, disconnect batteries. done! ...you may or may not put the plugs back in it depends if you want to throw them back in in the spring time or just have the boat all ready to go, if youre in colder climates id leave the plugs out.
Old     (yosquire)      Join Date: Jun 2005       11-15-2006, 8:50 AM Reply   
no offence, but why on earth would you leave the plugs out?

And how about your battery float charger? Leave the Batteries connected, charge them, then leave a float charger on them all winter. You'll distroy a battery inside of 2 winters by not keeping it floated - especially in the cold climates. Floating it, it'll last 5 years.
Old     (bigworm)      Join Date: Dec 2004       11-16-2006, 8:07 AM Reply   
why would i take offense? its just an extra precaution if you live in a climate that is below freezing alot, better safe than sorry. as far as the batteries go disconnecting them also depends on if you have a switch in which case just turn the switch to off. your talking about a trickle charger right? yes they are a good idea. it depends on the battery your talking about that will only last for 2 yrs and how it is maintained. if it is a non maintenance free battery, if you dont top it off with distilled water every year then yes it will destroy the battery. a good service dept will top off this type of battery at the time of your service.
Old     (yosquire)      Join Date: Jun 2005       11-16-2006, 11:19 AM Reply   
No, I'm talking about a float charger, not a trickle charger. You'll need to charge the battery before adding the float charger. The colder climates are especially hard on an unmaintained battery. They'll be pretty well shot after 2 or 3 winters if you simply disconnect them for the winter.

I still don't understand what you're preventing against by pulling the plugs. I'd personally leave the plugs in to keep excess moisture from traveling in and out creating surface rust.
Old     (7890303)      Join Date: Sep 2006       11-16-2006, 7:07 PM Reply   
If you leave the plugs out of your engine, moisture will rust your cylinder walls. Wow watch out for bogus info on this thread, there are alot of wrong ideas being posted here! Be careful "fogging" your FI system. Newer throttle bodies are now coming w/ a Teflon coating on the inside & adding some FI treatment thru the air intake may remove the teflon & create problems. Consult your manufacturer for details on how to properly store you boat for the winter.
Old     (mcfly)      Join Date: Jan 2002       11-17-2006, 7:27 AM Reply   
Just an FYI...

The 2007 Indmar Owners Manual says in Chapter 7:

"Drain water from exhaust manifolds except on salt water series engines. Uncouple the hose quick disconnect and drain the manifolds. Indmar recommends that you leave the drain plugs out, or the hose uncoupled, until spring."

Also, there is a notice that says:

"Placing all drain plugs, impeller, etc. in a plastic bag and attaching the bag to the steering wheel of the boat is a good reminder to reinsert the plugs when you recommission the boat in the spring."

McFly
www.waterskiboatsdallas.com
Old     (sdub)      Join Date: Jan 2003       11-17-2006, 9:05 AM Reply   
I think he means leaving the block drain plugs out.....not spark plugs....right?
Old     (bigworm)      Join Date: Dec 2004       11-17-2006, 9:17 AM Reply   
^ yes of course, i didnt realize you guys thought i meant spark plugs, i was trying to figure out how the cylinder walls would rust if the block and manifold plugs were left out.
Old     (mobv)      Join Date: Jun 2002       11-17-2006, 11:17 AM Reply   
Here is the Mercury Service Bulletin. It is written for a dealer/service center, reduce amounts for an individualUpload

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