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Old     (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       07-14-2015, 7:28 PM Reply   
Driving around in an unregistered boat you say?
Old     (chevychris)      Join Date: Aug 2008       07-14-2015, 8:10 PM Reply   
I've been reading this thread for a while now and just wanted to put my two cents in. When you order a car from a Dealer you don't see it till its delivered he was buying a new boat from a authorized dealer. He should feel confident that it is ready to go. Don't get me wrong if he was buying a used car/ boat then you better check it out.
Old     (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       07-14-2015, 8:28 PM Reply   
Quote:
. When you order a car from a Dealer you don't see it till its delivered he was buying a new boat from a authorized dealer.
But if that car you ordered showed up beat to ****, would you just accept it as okay and take delivery? No, you wouldn't.... authorized dealer or not.
Old     (johnny_defacto)      Join Date: Sep 2006       07-14-2015, 9:57 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by sidekicknicholas View Post
But if that car you ordered showed up beat to ****, would you just accept it as okay and take delivery? No, you wouldn't.... authorized dealer or not.
What if said car was delivered to your house, with a full car cover on it and the delivery guy just leaves? Then it is possible to have received a scratched up car with missing parts and damaged interior with a motor that does not run and a speedo/ tach/ voltometer ..etc not working and you would be SOL. It is in your driveway, it is paid for, it is the car you ordered new from a reputable manufacturer from a dealership that said manufacturer has listed as an authorized dealership, but you are now stuck with it??? This would not be acceptable to anyone.

Not saying this is what happened to JJ, but it is what he stated happened. And a lot of us know that towing a boat with a cover that is not meant to be a towable cover, for 2000 miles, is a bad idea and is probably what caused most of the gel coat damage.
Old     (illini88)      Join Date: Oct 2007       07-15-2015, 4:44 AM Reply   
I've never heard of a new car being delivered from the factory, to the buyer's home...Any time i've been involved in ordering a car, it gets shipped to the dealer...

We have some guys on here who are with dealerships. What is involved in being an "authorized dealer?" My assumption was always that it just means you can sell the product "new" (which means you can get all of the warranty info setup) and should be able to handle and get paid for warranty work. It does not mean there is any agency relationship between the manufacturer and the dealer. Lowes sells John Deere's. That doesn't mean that if I decide Lowes didn't take good care of me on my lawn mower purchase that John Deere is a bad company if it doesn't step in to make me happy.
Old     (BurnMac42)      Join Date: May 2015       07-15-2015, 6:51 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by illini88 View Post
I've never heard of a new car being delivered from the factory, to the buyer's home...Any time i've been involved in ordering a car, it gets shipped to the dealer...

We have some guys on here who are with dealerships. What is involved in being an "authorized dealer?" My assumption was always that it just means you can sell the product "new" (which means you can get all of the warranty info setup) and should be able to handle and get paid for warranty work. It does not mean there is any agency relationship between the manufacturer and the dealer. Lowes sells John Deere's. That doesn't mean that if I decide Lowes didn't take good care of me on my lawn mower purchase that John Deere is a bad company if it doesn't step in to make me happy.
John Deere's at Lowes are $3k tops. This is a $60k ($80k+ any other time) boat. That entry cost typically brings with it a higher level of customer support and expectations (as it should)...

But going along with your comparison of a mass produced low end lawn mower (comparatively speaking vs other JD products) sold thru a nationally established brand:

I'm pretty sure Lowe's wouldn't have allowed the lawn mower to leave the store missing an engine ECU, hub cap(s), and the whole slew of other parts that JJ is missing. Plus, when Lowe's delivers they have a form that you sign prior to accepting delivery. There is also the understanding (and backed up in writing/proven actions from Lowes that if the product doesn't work, return it no questions asked....and yes, I've pressed to test that one)

Both Lowes and John Deere have strong names within the industry. Those names were built over time by taking care of customers and not selling their products thru shoddy 3rd parties who do don't represent their brands properly. Epic is a newcomer in an already quasi-saturated market. One of their PRIMARY concerns should be customer satisfaction and Marketing 101, word of mouth is still the most powerful branding element.

How did Nautique, Mastercraft, Malibu, etc get the names that they have? By building and standing behind a product that people have grown to trust. From the testimonies outside this thread from individuals who have had problems with those other brands, the brands were more concerned with their brand's image than Epic appears to be and made sure to make things right with the customer first, then deal with supply chain/quality control issues on the back side.

Taking things at face value because lets face it, this is the internet and it's all we have to go off of, I have a hard time believing any of those brands would be making JJ run their errands for them nor would they have taken almost 2 months to somewhat start bringing the problem to conclusion.

As for the requests for pics on this site, this is the internet and JJ does not need to post pics here for a forums approval. I would argue that since Epic is actually sending parts, supposedly paying the bill to fix, etc that there was indeed problems with the boat or else why would the CEO be on here saying "we are sending engine ECU's, paying for a cut/wax, tower parts, ballast parts, etc"?

Last edited by BurnMac42; 07-15-2015 at 6:52 AM. Reason: Spelling
Old     (biggator)      Join Date: Jul 2010       07-15-2015, 7:20 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by illini88 View Post
I've never heard of a new car being delivered from the factory, to the buyer's home...Any time i've been involved in ordering a car, it gets shipped to the dealer...
Tesla does this where there isn't a service center close by.. I've never heard of a single issue.

Quote:
We have some guys on here who are with dealerships. What is involved in being an "authorized dealer?" My assumption was always that it just means you can sell the product "new" (which means you can get all of the warranty info setup) and should be able to handle and get paid for warranty work. It does not mean there is any agency relationship between the manufacturer and the dealer. Lowes sells John Deere's. That doesn't mean that if I decide Lowes didn't take good care of me on my lawn mower purchase that John Deere is a bad company if it doesn't step in to make me happy.
Whomever was responding to this part about the 3k John Deeres.. I think the original comment was about the BIG BOY stuff that's in the 100k range.
Old     (buffalow)      Join Date: Apr 2002       07-15-2015, 8:07 AM Reply   
In my business (mechanical contractor), we receive parts and equipment every day. We have a protocol to investigate every single thing as it comes it before signing a thing and never paying for anything until we approve that. We also photo and tag any unit that is over $5K. We refuse anything with damage with no exceptions, photos and document it to the vendor we order from. We have learned over 20 years this is the only way to protect ourselves. We have fought with shippers/vendors for years when something comes damaged and we accepted it with thoughts we could resolve after the fact.

We have bought over 30 trucks in the last 24 months. All were done pretty much site unseen (they are brand new), but when they are delivered we go through them inch by inch, drive them, verify paperwork etc, before we sign or take recipe of the vehicles. Once again, due to issues in the past, we are vigilant in this process now and it prevents 99.9% of the front end warranty issues.

Once you take possession, you are pretty much on the hook to prove the problems and than get them figure out. This is the case for a $50 part, $80K boat or a $250K AC system.
Old     (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       07-15-2015, 8:21 AM Reply   
Quote:
What if said car was delivered to your house, with a full car cover on it and the delivery guy just leaves?
That is NOT how it works though.... or is the worst shipping company ever. They will arrive, you will be there, inspect, record any damage and report it.... all before signing for your purchase. They won't leave the item without a signature (except apparently in JJ's case, where he signs nothing).

Quote:
Tesla does this where there isn't a service center close by.. I've never heard of a single issue.
https://youtu.be/HMeCSyEL1Z0?t=349
This is correct - please see the video for how a high price item should be delivered.

Seemingly legit company dropping it off, in a covered hauler, car wrapped inside there as a second level of protection. Buyer recording the entire process (and asking permission). Walk around of the car, inspecting all items "Gotta make sure this works" and "Gotta test this out", "Just going to do the walk around and make sure there is nothing weird - looking for blemishes, scratches, etc etc"
"Now the final procedure - sign it"

.... When JJ took delivery I would be utterly shocked if he did not have to sign for it as "received by purchaser", and as soon as he signs that, my guess is the fine print says "Buyer accepts condition etc etc etc, boat was delivered in 100% satisfactory condition etc etc etc". After that signature JJ owns the boat and its problems.
Old     (BurnMac42)      Join Date: May 2015       07-15-2015, 8:41 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by sidekicknicholas View Post
That is NOT how it works though.... or is the worst shipping .
From the description everyone is giving of TAL, I wouldn't be surprised if it was like that. I'm saying that again, based off JJ in a previous post saying the guy showed up in his personal truck and "just dropped the boat off"

Quote:
Originally Posted by sidekicknicholas View Post
.... When JJ took delivery I would be utterly shocked if he did not have to sign for it as "received by purchaser", and as soon as he signs that, my guess is the fine print says "Buyer accepts condition etc etc etc, boat was delivered in 100% satisfactory condition etc etc etc". After that signature JJ owns the boat and its problems.
I agree....granted a brand new vehicle of any kind comes with a certain level of expectation, I would still (me personally) take the cover off and at least visually inspect the vehicle. A unique problem with this situation is it's a boat and I guess unless you hooked a fake a lake or something up to it how are you suppose to inspect actual operation of the vehicle?
Old     (BurnMac42)      Join Date: May 2015       07-15-2015, 8:43 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by biggator View Post
Tesla does this where there isn't a service center close by.. I've never heard of a single issue.



Whomever was responding to this part about the 3k John Deeres.. I think the original comment was about the BIG BOY stuff that's in the 100k range.
The original response was discussing purchasing a JD from Lowes....Lowes (at least last I checked) doesn't sell $100k tractors...

If they did, my 2.5 yr old would lose his S%$& every time we went in there because it's like Christmas to him just being to climb up and play with the small stuff....

Last edited by BurnMac42; 07-15-2015 at 8:44 AM. Reason: Spelling
Old     (illini88)      Join Date: Oct 2007       07-16-2015, 4:04 AM Reply   
Apparently my tractor example was a poor choice in examples. I was trying to avoid using a car as an example, but the Tesla mentioned above actually is a very good one. What I was trying to get at, is that a manufacturer ships its products to retailers (dealers). Retailers then take possession of them and market them for sale, ultimately completing a sale (in theory). If the retailer sells the product to someone who doesn't want to pick it up, it gets shipped from the retailer to the buyer. The manufacturer should not be held responsible for what happens to the product when it is in the possession of the retailer or being shipped by the retailer or buyer. I live in the Midwest. It gets cold here, and there are dealers that have lots full of boats come late fall. If they don't get winterized properly things are going to break. If the dealer fails to winterize its boats properly, is the manufacturer responsible for the damage? In my opinion, no.

In the Tesla example above, if there isn't a Tesla service center nearby, the car apparently gets shipped directly to the buyer. A car or boat going from the manufacturer directly to the end user is not the same as a car or boat going from a manufacturer to a dealer to the end user. In one scenario, the manufacturer is involved in the physical shipping of the vehicle. In the other, it has no role whatsoever in the shipping.
Old     (BurnMac42)      Join Date: May 2015       07-16-2015, 6:23 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by illini88 View Post
Apparently my tractor example was a poor choice in examples. I was trying to avoid using a car as an example, but the Tesla mentioned above actually is a very good one. What I was trying to get at, is that a manufacturer ships its products to retailers (dealers). Retailers then take possession of them and market them for sale, ultimately completing a sale (in theory). If the retailer sells the product to someone who doesn't want to pick it up, it gets shipped from the retailer to the buyer. The manufacturer should not be held responsible for what happens to the product when it is in the possession of the retailer or being shipped by the retailer or buyer. I live in the Midwest. It gets cold here, and there are dealers that have lots full of boats come late fall. If they don't get winterized properly things are going to break. If the dealer fails to winterize its boats properly, is the manufacturer responsible for the damage? In my opinion, no.

In the Tesla example above, if there isn't a Tesla service center nearby, the car apparently gets shipped directly to the buyer. A car or boat going from the manufacturer directly to the end user is not the same as a car or boat going from a manufacturer to a dealer to the end user. In one scenario, the manufacturer is involved in the physical shipping of the vehicle. In the other, it has no role whatsoever in the shipping.
Your assuming the retailer in your example is representing, marketing, and selling the manufactures product properly. If you want to use a car as an example, I have personal friends who work in the automotive industry both at the retailer level and the manufacture level. I personally know three dealerships who were stripped of their right to sell certain brands (Ford x2 and Toyota in this case) because they were NOT representing Ford and Toyota properly.

My whole point here is Epic is choosing to continue to do business with a client that is suppose to be representing their brand in a positive light. By making that business choice, whether you believe it or not, casts a negative light on Epic because they are in bed with a what appears to be an overall turd for a dealer.

You can say "it isn't Epic's fault" all day and I will tend to agree in that Epic probably didn't ship a broke boat HOWEVER like I mentioned in my first post, word of mouth is still the most powerful marketing tool and now one only has to google search Epic boats review and this thread is found. It comes down to business 101 and that is, the customer is right 99.9% of the time even if they aren't right. As a business owner you have to make a conscience decision sometimes to swallow pride, make a customer happy, and then deal with whatever problems your having on the backside, whether it be an internal issue or external source issue.

In this case, Epic, like its been mentioned, could have knocked this out of the freaking park (and I don't mean just giving JJ a new boat) however instead, they chose to make JJ waste most of his summer, force JJ to play secretary and coordinate all the repairs, JJ (according to his posts), has been fronting all the cash, etc

That to me is NOT taking care of your customer and like it or not, I promise you this thread has deterred WAY WAY more potential revenue than it did earning new business....

That at the end of the day is the most important part...happy customers = increased revenue = growing business...
Old     (LanceM)      Join Date: Jun 2014       07-16-2015, 6:33 AM Reply   
Matt, that is one way to look at it based on the facts that we have....

LanceM
Old     (BurnMac42)      Join Date: May 2015       07-16-2015, 11:15 AM Reply   
On a side note:

http://www.txcars.net/web/inventory?...field_value=51

First 4 boats that show up on TAL's website are still listed as "Mastercraft Epic" boats lol
Old     (randv)      Join Date: May 2015       07-16-2015, 12:29 PM Reply   
$80k for an Epic from a dubious dealer. Wow, who is buying this stuff? It's hardly particularly cheap, this is Axis money for a stock boat.
Old     (LanceM)      Join Date: Jun 2014       07-16-2015, 1:03 PM Reply   
I love my Mastercraft Epic... Half the price, twice the name!

Lance MOUNTAIN
Old     (TX_Chris)      Join Date: Jun 2015       07-16-2015, 1:31 PM Reply   
What's a "stock boat"? Or more precisely, what makes the $80K Epics on TAL's website "stock boats"? Not trying to be a jacka**...(this time). I'm really asking. What is missing from these boats to make them into real boats?
Old     (LanceM)      Join Date: Jun 2014       07-16-2015, 1:54 PM Reply   
Trim levels... (and Im not talking surf trim levels)

LanceM
Old     (WakeDirt)      Join Date: Jun 2011       07-16-2015, 11:07 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by TX_Chris View Post
What's a "stock boat"? Or more precisely, what makes the $80K Epics on TAL's website "stock boats"? Not trying to be a jacka**...(this time). I'm really asking. What is missing from these boats to make them into real boats?
Airbags
Old     (randv)      Join Date: May 2015       07-17-2015, 1:18 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by TX_Chris View Post
What's a "stock boat"? Or more precisely, what makes the $80K Epics on TAL's website "stock boats"? Not trying to be a jacka**...(this time). I'm really asking. What is missing from these boats to make them into real boats?
Essentially it is a boat that has been specified by the dealer,occasionally by the manufacturer, and sometimes it is a cancelled order. There's nothing wrong with them, it is just when buying new most people want to be able to build the exact boat they want (I do), after all that is one of the main benefits for buying new. Taking what someone else has ordered, including their choice of colors and fittings, usually reduces the value a bit as the buyer can't chose it. The upside is that it is immediately available. Also stock boats are often targeted at the average buyer (obviously), so they tend to not be very highly specified, usually have the standard motors, etc.

Because the buyer didn't get exactly what they may want, they usually are only prepared to buy it if it is discounted. (Unless they want a boat now, now, now, and wont wait for a build). For the cost of these boats, I'd wait and get exactly what I want!

That's it really.

Last edited by randv; 07-17-2015 at 1:24 AM. Reason: Spelling
Old     (TX_Chris)      Join Date: Jun 2015       07-17-2015, 7:35 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by WakeDirt View Post
Airbags
LOL! Wait, are those Chinese air bags?!?!
Old     (TX_Chris)      Join Date: Jun 2015       07-17-2015, 7:38 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by randv View Post
Essentially it is a boat that has been specified by the dealer,occasionally by the manufacturer, and sometimes it is a cancelled order. There's nothing wrong with them, it is just when buying new most people want to be able to build the exact boat they want (I do), after all that is one of the main benefits for buying new. Taking what someone else has ordered, including their choice of colors and fittings, usually reduces the value a bit as the buyer can't chose it. The upside is that it is immediately available. Also stock boats are often targeted at the average buyer (obviously), so they tend to not be very highly specified, usually have the standard motors, etc.

Because the buyer didn't get exactly what they may want, they usually are only prepared to buy it if it is discounted. (Unless they want a boat now, now, now, and wont wait for a build). For the cost of these boats, I'd wait and get exactly what I want!

That's it really.
Ahhh... so not that it is "basic" but that it is "in stock"? And because it isn't custom it may be "basic". Thanks for the info.
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       07-17-2015, 8:22 AM Reply   
You can sometimes get a better deal on an ordered boat because the dealer his no risk for holding onto the asset FYI, boat comes in, boat goes out, and doesn't need to worry about it
Old     (whiteflashwatersports1)      Join Date: Dec 2012       07-17-2015, 8:35 AM Reply   
Wow Chris is taking a shot at JJ about airbags - You are really trying to help one of your customers get back on the water. Way to go.

I can not imagine a CEO, President, Owner etc of any of the big three or any of the other manufacturers coming on a site like this and directly insulting a customer over anything.

Of course they are busy coming up with innovative ideas and ways to sue each other and Chris is busy building fishing boats.
Old     (meathead65)      Join Date: Sep 2006       07-17-2015, 8:48 AM Reply   
Dial back the outrage..... Different Chris.
Old     (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       07-17-2015, 9:00 AM Reply   
Quote:
Wow Chris is taking a shot at JJ about airbags - You are really trying to help one of your customers get back on the water. Way to go.
Almost as bad as an incorrect knee jerk reaction to throw an innocent party under a bus.

Chris Anthony (cla17) = EPIC

Chris Hicklin (TX_Chris) = Some guy
Old     (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       07-17-2015, 9:20 AM Reply   
Ha ha ha!
Old     (TX_Chris)      Join Date: Jun 2015       07-17-2015, 12:19 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteflashwatersports1 View Post
Wow Chris is taking a shot at JJ about airbags - You are really trying to help one of your customers get back on the water. Way to go.

I can not imagine a CEO, President, Owner etc of any of the big three or any of the other manufacturers coming on a site like this and directly insulting a customer over anything.

Of course they are busy coming up with innovative ideas and ways to sue each other and Chris is busy building fishing boats.
In the words of Buggs Bunny, "What a maroon!"

I guess all people named Chris are the same person, huh? I would give you slack, but since the last time you posted on this thread you said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteflashwatersports1 View Post
Lance is a world class DB. As a boater in general I hate to say this because Karma is a bi@#h. I hope you break down and need a tow and everyone that stops says I cant tow you until you drain your tanks and aww sh$% you cant because your battery is dead and you just sit and rot. Stop being an ass and get over yourself and your EPIC.
And thus I say... look what the Karma cat dragged in!
Old     (LanceM)      Join Date: Jun 2014       07-20-2015, 8:58 AM Reply   
Everyone knows whiteflashwatersports1 is just a pot stirrer, and now pretty stupid... Complete little man syndrome... I forgot about him till your repost TX_Chris....

Glad he comes by every so often, and refreshes the thread... Keep it going WFWS1...

Lance MOUNTAIN
Old     (racer808)      Join Date: Jan 2013       07-22-2015, 8:43 PM Reply   
So.............did Epic send him a new Mastercraft with a depth finder yet?
Old     (randv)      Join Date: May 2015       07-23-2015, 2:24 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteflashwatersports1 View Post
Wow Chris is taking a shot at JJ about airbags - You are really trying to help one of your customers get back on the water. Way to go.

I can not imagine a CEO, President, Owner etc of any of the big three or any of the other manufacturers coming on a site like this and directly insulting a customer over anything.

Of course they are busy coming up with innovative ideas and ways to sue each other and Chris is busy building fishing boats.
Wow, this thread just keeps giving. There are so many 'classics' posted here, and more keep coming
Old     (boardjnky4)      Join Date: Dec 2011       07-29-2015, 10:46 AM Reply   
Where does this issue stand?
Old     (all2matt)      Join Date: Apr 2015       07-29-2015, 12:35 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by boardjnky4 View Post
Where does this issue stand?
Im assuming still on land because once JJ is on the water its gonna be an explosion of pics
Old     (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       07-29-2015, 12:43 PM Reply   
Quote:
Im assuming still on land because once JJ is on the water its gonna be an explosion of pics
I'm convinced he cannot operate a camera and/or upload photos.
Old     (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       08-03-2015, 6:58 AM Reply   
Any updates?
Old     (WakeDirt)      Join Date: Jun 2011       08-03-2015, 3:55 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by sidekicknicholas View Post
Any updates?
.
Attached Images
 
Old     (rossco)      Join Date: Aug 2013       08-04-2015, 3:48 AM Reply   
this reminds me of tige thread, guy has a problem with asr-comes on here gets a rz2 to use thread goes dead. maybe epic have really helped this guy out, i hope as summer in the usa is coming to an end.
Old     (LukeR103)      Join Date: Apr 2010       08-18-2015, 10:02 AM Reply   
Another week has come and gone, and I'm still left with the false hope that someone will post a picture of an Epic under water.... RIP

Old     (biggator)      Join Date: Jul 2010       09-03-2015, 7:31 AM Reply   
So.. what happened?
Old     (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       01-11-2016, 10:26 AM Reply   
Bump.
Old     (sandm01)      Join Date: May 2010       01-11-2016, 5:40 PM Reply   
I want my click back. no update=fail.
Old     (williamburell)      Join Date: Sep 2011       01-13-2016, 12:13 PM Reply   
Sign in for the first time in like 6 months and JJ posted half of this thread from a halfway house, evidently, the guys boat probably depreciated 10k before it will ever work, one of the most epic gif's ever was posted to WW, there still isn't one picture of this busted boat, and TAL are still pieces of crap.

Man I opened this bad boy up expecting this had been put to bed.

Also not to rub salt in the would but everyone busting on JJ for not viewing the boat previous to buying it obviously hasn't considered the fact that the law probably doesn't let him cross state lines. I kid I kid.

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