Can i use E85 w/ an indmar vortec mcx ?

i have heard from the possibility o convert cars with a ffv converter - using e85. has anyone used this converter for an 5,7 indmar vortec mcx?

Anyone know about Fuel Lines, Tank, Fuel Pump, Gaskets etc. compatability?

maybe its possible to use e50 without converter!?
any experiences with that?

for your info:

I live in germany. we have VERY high gas prices, so we are always looking for cheaper possibilities to run engines. my car (vw vr6) is running with lpg (liquified petroleum gas) what costs half the price of regular fuel.

ethanol could be a very good alternativ fuel...

Do not put e85 or e50 into you gas tank. Any more than 10 percent ethanol in gas will destroy a normal engine. Engines have to be specially modified to withstand ethanol. It would probably ruin your engine in about two gas tanks worth of it. e85 and e50 would destroy the fuel lines, gas tank, fuel pump, and the gaskets.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E85
Look on that link to get some more info about it.

"Any more than 10 percent ethanol in gas will destroy a normal engine"

@Dan
Don´t believe everything what the oil industry is saying...

have a look on sweden or brazil.

i´m interested in opinions from people who have personal experiences with this topic - especially with indmar engines.

i know a lot of people who run their cars with e85 in normal cars. they have just modified their electronic control units. some have chanced their fuel pumps. no problems for YEARS.

oh god, evil has come again...




what took us years to clean... all will be black again

Reto - There are some specific issues with ethanol in the marine environment -- one of which is phase separation. You can easily consult Google on the topic: type in "ethanol in marine engines."

One very helpful result is http://www.mercurymarine.com/ethanol

With regard to your post about Brazil, the engines there are designed for flex-fuel. MY understanding is that it only costs the engine manufacturers a few hundred extra dollars to include such capabilities, but unless the changes are made, the engine is susceptible to damage. Note again, that the marine environment is a different story, and not directly comparable to the auto industry.

Alcohol is very corrosive. Engines that run E85 are specifically designed and the fuel systems and other areas that come in contact with the fuel are made to withstand the use of that much alcohol.

Considering Indmar is pretty much the first to offer catalytic converters on their engines, if they felt it was safe to run E85 in them I think they would say so instead of telling you not to use more than 10%.

@matt

thx for your link. very interesting.

about brasil: you´re right. most cars are ffv and designed for e85. but a lot of people run non ffv cars with e85. they have just modified their ecus!

@rob
for sure the fuel lines, tanks etc. can be a problem. at the moment i want to find out what kind of material the fuel tank in my mastercraft is. most plastics are non corrosive with enthanol.

i think it´s not easy to use ethanol but i see no exclusion-bases for the use if you modify some parts.

While E85 may sound attractive, given the lower price per gallon, you need to understand that your miles per gallon (or hours per gallon) take about a 20% hit. On another wakeboard BB, two people tried E85 (with cars/trucks that are certified to be used with it) and got the following:

On a 2006 Nissan Titan: went from approx. 16mpg city, 19mgp hwy to 10.5mpg city, 12.2mpg hwy.

On another car (unknown make/model): went from 18mpg combined city/hwy to 11mpg.

For the last example, if E85 were $2.40 per gallon, the price equivalent would have to be $3.93 per gallon of non-E85 fuel to equal the out of pocket payment (i.e., you'd have to be paying more than $3.92 per gallon to be saving any money buying E85 at $2.40 per gallon).

I doubt you'd save any money on a wakeboard boat with E85.

My understanding is that it wont work in a non-sealed fuel environment (like a boat). Any moisture in ethanol will turn it in gelatinous goo (technical term). It works fine in sealed automotive fuel systems, which have an advanced purge systems.

CIE hit it on the head. If it's a vented system you can't use E85 period no matter what the vehicle is. It will kill the motor. It has to do with alochol mixing with water that comes in through the vents. Cars can run on it because they have been motified and have closed fuel systems.

@cie
@face planter

THX for giving me these facts! that sounds logical for me.

Now i think it would be the safest decision to convert to lpg. it costs half the price of gas and has nearly no loss of power. the lpi (liquid proban injection) version should be the best for vortec engines.

THX for your help!

face & CIE - correct. One more thing, ethanol like any hyper-spped evaporative substance will also quickly harden rubber or some plastics causing them to crack very quickly. The e50 and e85 autos also have the fuel storage and delivery systems modified to handle this.

Call indmar, i am sure they can tell you also.

There are a number of concerns about using E85, some are founded and some are more in the catagory of urban myth. There are also some signficant issues. The "concerns" are along the lines of the alcohol will eat the rubber parts, corrode the fuel tank, absorb water from the air, etc.

An "issue" with using E85 is that the gas/fuel mixture is signifcantly different between what gasoline would need and E85 would need. There have been prototypes of cars built that have enough smarts in the fuel injection system that it can detect what the fuel is and adjust, allowing the car to fill up with either. But for any engine that you are going to just go out and buy the engine simply won't run on the wrong fuel.

A carbureted engine would be easy to convert, just change the jets. It should be possible to reprogram a fuel injected engine as well.

"An "issue" with using E85 is that the gas/fuel mixture is signifcantly different between what gasoline would need and E85 would need. There have been prototypes of cars built that have enough smarts in the fuel injection system that it can detect what the fuel is and adjust, allowing the car to fill up with either. But for any engine that you are going to just go out and buy the engine simply won't run on the wrong fuel.
"

@Rod

as i wrote above, you can buy a converter to use gas AND e85.

Look here: http://www.flextuneusa.com/determine_converter.php

The converter works great and you can use every mixture from pure gas, over e25 up to e85. the converter detects the fuel and chances the signals from the ecu.

@ Retro LPG or propane as its known in the states is usually more expensive than gasoline so thats really not an option.

My car and boat both run on LPG though here in the UK as our fuel prices are even more than those in Germany!

Reto, flex fuel cars use the o2 sensor to determin the amount of ethnol and increase fuel. A o2 sensor will not functoin in the water cooled manifold of your boat. If you could have a program written and your injectors and fuel are big eneough e85 should work in your engine, but you would not be able to switch back and forth.

As for the hydroscopic nature of alcohol I do not think this would be a issue as all cars that I am familar with are open to the atmosphere at rest(engine off)