Chevy Duramax 2500 or Ford F-250 Powerstroke

I know this thread should get lots of action. Weigh in on your opinions of these two trucks. Performance, towing power, comfort, exterior, interior, etc. And as always...POST YOUR PICS!

CHEVY all the way! my friend just got a new 2500 and its beautiful inside and out! very quiet to for a diesel, the new duramax is sweet and so is the allison tranny! and seriously have you ever heard of a chevy breaking down?

looks, power, reliability, i would go with a chevy!

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quote:

seriously have you ever heard of a chevy breaking down

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I have heard some bad Chevy and Ford stories, and I owned a '96 Tahoe back in the day and it was junk (probably isolated). My current tow vehicle is an '05 F-150 Supercrew. If I get something it will most likely be an '05 or '06 with low miles.

i never hear of duramaxs breaking down, but i sure here about a lot of powerstrokes breaking!

They both are nice trucks and can pull just about anything you want. If it were 10 years ago there would be no question...FORD. But today, I don't think anything is better than the new Duramax. It really has an edge up on the competition.

Which one has the color you like?

I have an 05 DMAX. I love it. I had one problem. The truck stalled on me and would not start. I had it towed (dealer paid for it) and after 2 days of diag they found that the fuel water sensor in the tank was malfunctioning. This was telling the truck to shut off. They replaced the whole thing under extended warranty from Chevrolet. Minor electrical problem but no major mechanical probs.

I will say that the 00-03 Power Strockes were pretty sweet. The newer ones have some problems though

(Message edited by phall925 on July 26, 2007)

What year(s) are you considering??

I am not hearing anything at all about the 08 Powerstrokes having issues. 05-07 Powerstrokes are very reliable as well.

I just heard on this thread that Chevy's never break down, but I would not know first hand. Never is a long time though, you would probably have paid it off by then.

Probably '05 or '06 Duramax or Powerstroke.

My '06 Powerstroke has 20k and not so much as a hiccup. My '00 Tahoe was great, but it was in the shop 3-4 times in the first year for warranty BS.

Buy what makes you happy and drive it like you stole it. The worst thing you can do for a diesel is putt it around town.

(Message edited by guido on July 26, 2007)

With the chevy you get the G80 which is far superior to anything that Ford currently offers...

What is the G80?

The auto locking rear end does sound pretty nice. I have read about a couple guys putting lockers on the Fords as they needed to, the LS is nice, but I could see it not getting it done in extreme situations.

Steep boat ramps are about as extreme as it get's for me, I should be alright with a LS rear.

From what I just read, you have rear locking differentials, which are Limited Slip, but do not lock 100%. One rear wheel will always be engaged, the other will get power as needed, like once it feels a slip at low rpm, it will divert it to the other wheel to help get traction

Then you have differential lockers, which completely lock up and spin both rear wheels with equal power, this is needed by some folks.

The G80 is a locking differential, but can lock up 100% like a differential locker. It does it automatically. Some differential lockers are manual.

Hope i got that right. Bocephus may correct if wrong.

The G80 is the Eaton Locker. It is not a limited slip since it will lock the rear axles 100%. I have a 2wd Tahoe with it and it will pull me up the mud and gravel shoreline when launching without a concrete ramp (when the ramp is out of the water due to low lake levels).

There is a lot of debate out there whether the G80 is a locker or limited slip and I can assure it is a locker. It sucks on ICE, that's for sure.

Eaton has some good videos on youtube.com if you want to see what a G80 will do.

Eaton G80 Locker Youtube Videos

I will always have a locker in all my tow vehicles. I used to have a Jeep with an ARB Air Locker and it was awesome too.

Bocephus,

can u get away with a 2wd with a locker on a tow vehicle ? looking to get a 4wd tow- but 2wd would be better for mileage..

thanks,

mike

I have seen some 2wd locker chevies go places other 4wd's vehicles couldn't go.

I tow with a 2wd GMC 1500 with the G80 and I have never had a problem getting my boat out of the water.

Alright, lets see some pics of your diesels...

My 06 SB Larait 6.0l Diesel. Tows a boat like nothing. I love it, no problems at all, upgraded the tires, the rest is stock. Gonna get some bilstein shocks on it. Whatever you go with, I know you will be happy, oil burners are fun. Keeping mine stock height, it handles nice on the highway at speed and I don't wanna compromise that. I will always have a diesel truck from now on.

That is pretty much the exact truck I want! Love the white...how does it do in the city, mpg?

Only problems I've had (knock on wood) with my 04.5 LLY are the 2-7 injector harness failure, intermediate steering shaft clunk and both front hubs wearing out. All are known problems with the Dmaxes. The hubs are a sealed design that can't be rebuilt. They cost about $450 at the dealer! Extended warranties are good...

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quote:

By caddywampus (clubmyke) on Thursday, July 26, 2007 - 10:43 am:

Bocephus,

can u get away with a 2wd with a locker on a tow vehicle ? looking to get a 4wd tow- but 2wd would be better for mileage..

thanks,

mike

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Ya, no problem. This last week at our local lake the monsoon hit and we had to weight about 2 hours while the flash floods rushed over the only road out from the lake to the main highway. After about 2 hours of weighting the Sheriff and Forest Service pulled the road blocks and said, "Go at your own risk, if you get stuck it's your problem. If we have to save you or your vehicle the $5,000 fine kicks in and you will be arrested." All the big diesels and jacked up 4x4's went through with a full speed burst. It was just me, a bunch of 2wd trucks and cars. I gave it a shot and made it through no problem. The truck did slow down a lot and almost got stuck but the it made it through... Most everyone else turned around and camped in the parking lot. I will post pictures as soon as I get them.


Motorweek

Autoblog

bb12,

I am getting about 12-13 in the city, but i use my Bronco for knocking around town. All diesels like to get warmed up and driven hard, it keeps the turbos and EGR's clean.

Towing 5k with a full bed of gear and 4 people in the cab I get about 13 mpg averaging 65-70 mph with the grapevine thrown in there. Driving habits effect MPG greatly.

Empty on the highway I get 16-18 mpg, again, driving habits.

I expect an increase in mpg at around 15k miles, currently I am at 7k miles, it's my weekend getaway machine. I would be beating on it driving it 2 miles to work with a stop for coffee.

03 with 110,000 can tow the whole house and toys.
(old boat).

Bo was that @ bartlett? I used to take my jeep up in N Sdale pre-raised pima and make a GRIP pulling people out of the sand when the roads washed out. The only way N/S was cavecreek or wayyy out east. Everything around sdale and jomax would get shutdown and I would make mad money with my "towing service" asking people for pulls out and what they thought would be fair for the service.


Back on topic:
An f350 with detroits front and rear I can't think of a boatramp on the planet you couldn't get out of. There are a lot of options out there other than what the dealer puts in trucks too. From a fullcase detroit to something like a lockrite or even a detroit gearless locker would be good solutions if you find a 2wd dreamride lacking some sort of traction enhancement in the back.

Yup, Bartlett...

To me, Chevy is more comfortable than the fords, so that is what I have. My buddy thinks the opposite, so he has a ford. Go test drive them and see which feels better to you...Either will do the job.

Also get a feel for the dealership. I went to the GMC dealer and inquired about the Diesels, they had none on the lot, that told me something.

When I went to the Ford dealer, they had 20 diesels on the lot and alot more in the fleet lot. They also had a fully trained group of diesel mechanics to service them, which is very important for the diesels and one reason Ford had initial troubles with the 6.0l, nobody was diagnosing them properly.

Drive em both, and if you are looking at an 08 Superduty, know that they are running great. I have no experience with the GM or Dodge diesels, but they look damn good to me too.

I've got an 05 duramax, it's my 3rd one and I love them. look at it this way, the ford is geared toward a work truck and feels like one while the chevy is more of a comfortable every day driver. I drove the new 08 ford and dodge and at this point would almost take anyone of them. with the being said, I have an 08 duramax ordered for the end of august. below are my 03, 04 and 05 the red one.

i could be largely mistaken, but the G80 is NOT an eaton locker, in fact the G80 is often regarded as the weakest link in the chevy rear axles. I have a 94 silverado on 38s and ditched that g80 for a real eaton posi at the same time. the g80 is what usually fails in the rear diff, often taking the rest of the rear end with it. functionality wise it can be a good thing to have, but its basically a ticking time bomb relative to other parts.

this is heavily discussed on the chevy forums and also offroad forums

I haven't heard of many G80's bombing with stock to slightly over sized tires. Those 38's are pretty big. I'm also pretty sure that they have updated the design/material selection since 94.

What is the largest tire you can fit under the Chevy stock?

On my 4WD I have 285's and I cranked the torsion bars a little. They work fine. If you get torsion keys you can put 305's

285s are no problem. I needed to trim the bumper valence and tieback the fender wall on the driver's side. I put three turns on my t-bars and no rubbing.

Preston, got any pics?

I will take some this evening

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quote:

By Spencer (speez) on Thursday, July 26, 2007 - 8:28 pm:

i could be largely mistaken, but the G80 is NOT an eaton locker, in fact the G80 is often regarded as the weakest link in the chevy rear axles. I have a 94 silverado on 38s and ditched that g80 for a real eaton posi at the same time. the g80 is what usually fails in the rear diff, often taking the rest of the rear end with it. functionality wise it can be a good thing to have, but its basically a ticking time bomb relative to other parts.

this is heavily discussed on the chevy forums and also offroad forums

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Spencer,
YOU ARE WRONG!!!

I have seen the SAE test reports on the G80, it has been tested ad nauseam. Basically, someone's brother's friend's cousin's sister's fiance had a G80 and it blew up and everyone talks crap about the G80's because Ford and Dodge don't offer a locker....

Those same forums that you talk about repeatedly call the G80 a limited slip, and it is not, it's a locker. After all, we all know how reliable an internet forum is...

I quote from the eaton website,
"Mechanical Locking Differential
The Eaton mechanical locking differential was the first to be offered as an option to pickup drivers and today it is known around the world simply by the GM option code G80. This automatic unit, available as standard and optional equipment for rear drive and 4-wheel drive vehicles, makes traction problems a thing of the past. The Locker makes towing large boats and campers a breeze. Be sure to ask your dealer if your vehicle has an Eaton differential."

http://www.eaton.com/EatonCom/Markets/Automotive/TorqueControls/index.htm

2nd locker from the bottom!!

I had a G80 in a Dana 44 in a '89 Blazer (newer junkyard axles) with an Offroad Design doubler kit installed and 5.38 RP's and a 500 Cadillac motor and TH400 with a trans brake and I could not break the G80 and I TRIED! I had an ARB waiting to go in there, but I could not explode the G80!

Now if you are an idiot and think stock equipment will hold up behind your new supercharger, that's your problem...

From Superchargersonline....

GM’s locking differential factory option (a.k.a. “gov-lok” or option code G80) is a notable choice that fits somewhere between a true “locking differential” and a “limited-slip differential.” Under normal conditions it behaves as an open differential. The mechanism inside uses a centrifugal flyweight that engages when a certain RPM difference between the right and left wheel is reached. Once engaged, a cam plate is forced to rotate in relation to one of the axle gears.

The more the wheel continues to slip, the more force will be exerted on the clutches until slippage stops. Once slippage has been stopped, the centrifugal flyweight resets itself. It is not uncommon for these mechanisms to engage and disengage in rapid succession during poor traction conditions. These differentials have clutch plates that look mechanically similar to a limited slip differential.

The factory GM locker is made by Eaton and should not be confused with the "Posi" (an LSD), which Eaton also makes. The factory GM lockers are all-around great performers. They work on the street and off road. They are also capable of pulling boats out of the water. Despite their apparent versatility, these differentials have limited usefulness in supercharged trucks. Due to this differential’s design it is possible to exceed the clutch’s ability to lock up against the slipping wheel if too much input torque is present. If this occurs, the cam plate can rotate far enough to literally explode the carrier in half.

Supercharger kits for GM trucks are designed with this and other powertrain limitations in mind. If your supercharged GM truck has additional performance parts and a factory locker, replacing the factory unit now with an aftermarket Limited Slip or Locking differential could save you time and transmission damage, in the future, if it should happen to fail.

The G80 is sold behind the Duramax every day!

Doug, post some pics!

What size tire can you get under the F-250 4x4 stock? Anybody have any pics of an unlifted f-250 with larger tires?

I can't let this thread die just yet. I need more info! From what I grasp, you really can't go wrong with either truck, just comes down to personal preference.

Can you guys give me some feedback on gas mileage info on your respective diesel?

City, highway, towing?

THANKS!!

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet. I feel that the Power Stroke Super Duty is a bit more massive all around than the Chevy HD. I really think when it is all said and done they are basically the same size bumper to bumper and also on the inside, but, the Ford just feels more massive and I personally think it is a little harder to drive in the city. Just My $.02.

Nots: this is my opinion not scientific fact. I have driven both vehicles and like them equally. I feel at home in my 2500HD and would not trade it for anything.

Ive been getting about 20 MPG unloaded freeway driving about 65-70 MPH..about 18 at 75. In town im about 15 MPG, and get about 14-15 on the freeway towing the boat, with a stand up jet ski and a weeks worth of camping gear in the back. Oh ya, its a 07 classic crew cab 4x4 Chevy. For me it came down to a couple different things I liked better on the chevy, and the Chevy dealership had a much better service department and reputation then the Ford dealer in my town.

why fool around with a Izuzu duratrash

why mess with power piss thats why ford offers that truck above with a cat pusher so it can pull its own

I think Ford offers that truck for anyone who wants that truck. Ownership goggles are a crazy little device though.

bb12 - you didn't mention what years you were looking at so I'll add some input in case you were looking used.

Chevy - Look for an '03 or early '04. They have a tighter turning radius as well as the newer body style. The '04.5 to early '06 models have some overheating issues but mostly while pulling big 5vers and not boats like ours.

Ford - I'd try to avoid the '03s. They were the first model of the 6.0 and several of my friends have been with their's due to updates. If there is any rear seal maintenance avoid it, they have had a power adder on them.

If you want the best first hand knowledge here you go:
chevy: http://dieselplace.com/forum/index.php
ford: http://thedieselstop.com/

In the end I ended up with an '03 duramax. There were a few comments on tire size and I would recommend going with a 285 65/18 max on them without major mods. I had 3 cranks on the t-bar as well as the e-brake cable tie back as stated above. Wheel offset choice also has a BIG impact on rubbing as well.

Here is my ride - if you have any other questions let me know and I'd be happy to help.

Nice looking ride Ryan. Looks really clean

Ryan, I like your ride...I have been looking at '04-'06s. They are touugh to find, that is for sure! Lately I have been leaning more towards the Chevy. I have been a Ford driver for the last seven years and I'm seriously considering the switch!

Do you notice any mpg difference with the 285s?

02' F250 4x4 Lariat Superduty Turbo Diesel with Banks Powerpack System, running stock lift with 33's. Not towing I get 19mpg and towing 15mpg, I don't have a heavy foot so I tow right at 65mph. Just rolled 75k miles almost all highway towing miles.
link to banks kit...http://store.bankspower.com/Categories.aspx?Category=27a23cc7-d7f7-46bd-9ff3-d6a52b9c73f3

03' Super Air Team

Just an FYI, I am doing my own research on a new diesel truck and found that the Dodge's Cummins has the option of a 300,000 mile warranty! The program is through Cummins. At 100,000 you take the truck to a Cummins service center (usually not a Dodge dealer), they test the engine and make repairs if necessary (required repairs can not cost more than $1000, if more than $1000 in repairs is required Cummins will pay the rest as long as negligence was not a factor) and then will warranty the engine for another 100,000 miles. At 200,000 miles you can do the process over again for another 100,000. This is on either the 5.9 or the new 6.4!

Look it up or ask your Dodge dealer!!

Thanks for the comments tyler and bb12. As for mileage I maybe lost 1/2 mpg or so. The real key on these trucks is to keep the rpms under 2k - once you go over that my towing mileage drops below 16.

As for tuners I'm running EFI Live. You install it on your laptop, connect it to the truck, and then download your stock tune. From there the possibilities are endless as to how much power you want to run. You want to stay under 100hp on the stock trans and right now I'm running a 70hp towing/economy tune. Regular driving I'm in the high 19s and towing average is about 16.

Good luck in your search and possible switch

Ryan, what kind of rims are those?

Wow Ryan, you get the same gas mileage as my gas Explorer.

Leo his boats WAY bigger than yours. And your gas explorer gets 16 towing?!?!?!? Thats pretty good considering it's an explorer

bb12 - those are ultra predators 18x9 w/ 5.5 backspacing. I wanted to keep the tires tucked in the fender wells as I didn't want to throw rocks everywhere. The only other wheels that I found that did that in an 8 lug were the Eagle 114's.

Here's a link:
http://www.ultrawheel.com/wheel_detail.cfm?brand=1&id=169

The custom tune makes a BIG difference. It's still got plenty of power though as I can toast the rears pretty easily when empty. Oh and the mileage is hand calculated - the computer in my truck says I'm getting like 22.

I just picked up my new F250 diesel on Friday night. Wow, what a truck! We pulled the boat to the lake today and it performed like there wasn't a boat behind us at all. The ramp was a breeze considering it was steep, one lane and full of holes, sand and slick asphalt. I am very happy with it. Mpg was around 14 but most of the driving was city streets. They hwy mpg should be even better.

That thing sure squats in the rear...

I just bought a pre-owned 2006 King Ranch Ford f250

drove it from Dallas to Knoxville....forgot the boat was there....even in the smoky mountains

the back seat is so massive....the kids didn't fight!!!!

I put a light weight hard bed cover on it.....fantastic!

I've never been a Ford guy....always Dodge

but the only Dodges with this much back seat, are brand new

I love the truck
will never have a gasser as a tow vehicle again

and my last truck was an '03 Dodge Hemi 4x4....70,000 miles and not 1 problem

nu bu - That 24' gg supra would put more of a hurt on a 1/2 ton. Not to mention there is a slight slope to the driveway. He could also have 10 dead bodies in the bed from the last guys that made that comment

If you have to tow any long distances you will be happier with any diesel. It's heavier, made to pull the load, but most of all it makes for more relaxing trailering. You just set the cruise and go. The tranny never shifts and all that you have to worry about is what kind of butter you'll have when you get there!

Ryan that's why I have a Dodge Mega Cab w/cummins. Does not sag like that.

^^^^^

Too bad that mega cab interior still blows and you can't have a long bed with a mega cab.

Shane you're right all that room does blow, you can get a long bed now. Who gives a chit about a long bed anyway, I don't work with the truck. You must be one of those passionate Ford guys.

(Message edited by 05mobiuslsv on August 06, 2007)

^^^^^^
Passionate about Ford?????? I guess you have missed some of my posts. I would gladly buy a new Toy or Nissan in Diesel 3/4. I am sick of the quality of the trucks, but I have to work within the parameters of current production and my needs.

Have you seen my posts about what a POS the 08 Ford is?

As for a LWB, when I pack up with the chica, dogs, coolers and everything else, I am out of room with a short bed. I also use the truck for towing a 5er and during hunting season so the LWB is a real necessity.

FYI, according to the Dodge website and the sales guy, along with all the diesel site, the only way to get a MegaCab with Long Bed is a custom conversion.

Anybody got any pictures of the '07 (new body style) Duramax with larger tires, lift, etc? Just curious how it looks.

What kind of incentives are out there for the '07s?

Any '03-'06 generation Duramax pics with larger tires?

No lift, but larger(33x12.5) tires and wheels (20's)

shane,

did you put a leveling kit on the front? or will the tires clear without rubbing with the truck stock?

no leveling kit. just turned the torsion bars up a few cranks, tied back the plastic inside the wheelwell with zip ties, and redid the alignment. still rubs a tiny bit if i am on a slope so i have to grind away a little of the metal well at the back of the tire. front of the tire clears fine.

Until you hit a nice bump...Get some Glassworks fiberglass prerunner fenders for that thing!

Bocephus, that is sick...post some more pics!

The truck isn't mine. I don't have that kind of coin....




PHOTOGLOU on Hotboat.com/forums can get you best deal on a chevy that I know of.

Then ultra27jay can get you the lift and fenders, he's also on the hotboat forum. He works or owns http://www.extremetrucksinc.com not sure which though....

Shane, the Liquid Force surfer you sold me is a sweet board! Can you post some more pics of your truck, interior, etc?

Being loyal to Ford it is tough to say that I used to believe that the GM Products 3/4 and 1 ton trucks were slightly more comfortable inside. That all changed for 2008. The inside of the Lariat and the FX4 are like driving in a mercedes benz. The turning radius seems better on my new 08 superduty than my 07 f150. The 6.4L Diesel engine is by far the quietest and by far the most similar to driving a gasoline engine for everyday driving. Fuel economy seems pretty decent so far. I live in so cal and drive 50 miles to work in gridlock every day and I am getting around 15mpg. I believe that all three diesels were pretty equal in 2007 but this new 08 is in a class of its own. Ford trannys and rear ends are indestructable. The 6.4L is the one of the most tested engines prior to a new vehicle launch of all time. The weird thing about this truck is that the twin turbos make the power feel so linear that they do not have the head jerking boosting power at 3000 rpm like the other three engines on the market. The power may feel soft but when you line up next to any one of the three in bone stock fashion, the new 08 supeduty will walk away from all of them. I suggest driving all of the above. Also keep in mind that the Ford equally equiped is much less money than the GM trucks. I just sent my truck out for the new Fabtec 8" lift and some 37's. I also am putting the same 20" XD778 like the chevy above.

The truck lowers by about 1 to 1 1/2 inches when I hook up the boat. In this pic the boat has a half full bag in the front (500 to 600 lbs or so) and two 3/4 full in the back. I think the boat and trailer weigh 5100 lbs, gas another 500 lbs or so, water ballast left in sacks 900 lbs or so, and other gear. I would guess the total weight is between 6500 and 7500 lbs.

We pulled to the lake again today and had the same experience as yesterday. I regret not having moved up to a heavy-duty diesel truck before now. My old Expedition 4x4 doesn’t compare. Yes, it would tow the boat but would struggle at speed, going up hills, as well as over bumpy roads (and talk about rear end dropping down). Another nice feature is the mirrors. I can finally see around the boat to what is behind or coming up along side. In my Expedition I couldn’t see over the boat when backing up and looking behind. The truck is tall enough to where I can see over the boat. I have to get used to the turning radius as well as backing up. It takes more swing to make sharp right turns. It also takes smaller steering adjustments when backing up to turn the trailer. A little more practice we will have it down.

Shane you're right about the long bed. When I built the truck at Dodge.com I didn't see the note that popped up about the long bed/short bed. I've got the same truck at work and beat the chit out of it for a year and never skipped a beat, I can't say that for the chevy's and ford's we have there. They are always in the shop. The truck proved itself before I ever bought it, besides it's got the best diesel in the industry.

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quote:

By James B (slmracer9) on Monday, August 06, 2007 - 4:01 pm:

Being loyal to Ford it is tough to say that I used to believe that the GM Products 3/4 and 1 ton trucks were slightly more comfortable inside. That all changed for 2008. The inside of the Lariat and the FX4 are like driving in a mercedes benz. The turning radius seems better on my new 08 superduty than my 07 f150. The 6.4L Diesel engine is by far the quietest and by far the most similar to driving a gasoline engine for everyday driving. Fuel economy seems pretty decent so far. I live in so cal and drive 50 miles to work in gridlock every day and I am getting around 15mpg. I believe that all three diesels were pretty equal in 2007 but this new 08 is in a class of its own. Ford trannys and rear ends are indestructable. The 6.4L is the one of the most tested engines prior to a new vehicle launch of all time. The weird thing about this truck is that the twin turbos make the power feel so linear that they do not have the head jerking boosting power at 3000 rpm like the other three engines on the market. The power may feel soft but when you line up next to any one of the three in bone stock fashion, the new 08 supeduty will walk away from all of them. I suggest driving all of the above. Also keep in mind that the Ford equally equiped is much less money than the GM trucks. I just sent my truck out for the new Fabtec 8" lift and some 37's. I also am putting the same 20" XD778 like the chevy above.

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Have you driven the new dodge with the 6.7L it includes an exhaust brake as an option. It's basically the old tried and true 5.9 Cummins that's been around forever and or the 6.2 Cummins that's been out in Europe for the last two years but not bored out.

Add the availability of a 3 back to back 100,000 mile warranties for a total of 300,000 and it's pretty tough to beat...If not let me know, I'm shopping for diesel as I type.

Bocephus

I'm not that sure about the warranty but I can't hear anything, there is a new dodge diesel outside my door. They are nice but that thing is so loud I would go crazy driving it for over an hour each way to work. I would hear diesels in my dreams