INT Rules

Let me start by saying I have enjoyed participating in the INT league the past three years. But I have an issue with the INT rules regarding the limitation on the amount of inverts you can throw in a particular division. I'll stick to the Expert division. In that division you can throw up to 5 inverts total. Yet you can throw 4 variations of a 360 and 540. So you could throw 8 different spins if you so choose, not counting any BS 180s or half cabs. Why only 5 inverts? On top of that, a raley based trick is counted as an invert. Inverts are certainly no more dangerous that a spin. And I understand you need a mix of spins and inverts for a quality run and style points. But if you enjoy going out there and throwing down a large bag of inverts, then why shouldn't you be able to? If I have 6 inverts and a raley, but no spins, then I can't compete in Expert unless I throw a bunch of grabbed 180s and half cabs. I know a guy who can throw spins (360s and 540s) all day long, but struggles with a simple invert. Yet he would kill me in the INT Expert division because I could only throw 5 inverts to his eight spins.

Since the INT has trick values and divisions can't throw a trick exceeding a certain value, then why even limit you on inverts or spins? If you want to go throw eight inverts in expert and you don't exceed the 1,350 points per trick, then who cares? Style points may suffer, but at least you can compete with the spin masters. Another possibility would be to limit your spins the same as inverts (5 total spins and 5 total inverts). And for goodness sakes don't include raley based tricks with inverts.

I guess if I have 6 inverts and a raley, I would need to compete in outlaw to be able to throw all of these even though none of the tricks exceed the point value for expert.

Does anybody else see the disparity in this?

I know someone will pop in and say "learn some spins". Well, I just happen to enjoy inverts more and isn't the INT as well as any grass root tournaments about having fun?

Sorry for the long rant. And I look forward to the INT League next year.

Why not just ride Outlaw? Sounds like you have 7 tricks out of 10 needed. Grab a couple of the tricks you have and sounds like you have a darn good run.

That is a thought. But all the inverts are fairly basic (Tantrum, Indy Tantrum, BR, BR2R, Crow, FR). I'm definitely not an outlaw level rider. But it would probably be more fun. Heck, I think I will go get my HS front flip and TS BR down now.

I can sympathize with your point of view, but I also think that INT may be doing riders a favor by forcing them to become well rounded riders. A run with all inverts and no spins should be scored very low on style. Poor composition.

I can see what you mean you wanna go out there and have fun with your inverts. But, one of my arguments is that: 1. This is what the next level division (outlaw)is for. 2. There's a lot of people out there who cant spin but can have pretty much an average of 5 inverts in their bag. 3. What is the point of having separate divisions if all of them are so close in trick "structure"?.....Like you said in your own post, just learn some spins man lol. Nothin wrong with becoming a better rider.

I think any competition is about just that, competition. Not fun, not anything but following the rules, of which there are many.

If you can't do any spins, how do you know you like inverts more? Balance will make you appreciate all aspects of riding. If your normal set equals 6 inverts, a raley, mix repeat then maybe the spin rule is a good thing in that it will push you to become a more well rounded rider. Maybe try taking your spins huge and grabbed, that always makes them fun!

Like I said in my original post, I know you need a mix to score a good run with style points. But why limit inverts more than spins? That is the real question. If someone can throw 8 spins in a run, why not be able to throw 8 inverts? In the INT, points are points. Someone who throws 8 spins and no inverts is gonna beat 5 inverts every time. Equal rights I say.

FYI there are only 3 540 variations that you can throw in expert. HS 540, TS 540, Toe off 5. All must be ungrabbed.

Thanks Peter, I stand corrected.

Wakemania, I have never seen an expert rider throw more than 2 versions of a 540 in my year of riding it, and years of judging it as well. I also competed in outlaw successfully (qualified for nationals and finished 9th), with basic inverts, and a few 3's (540's aren't fun to me, so I don't do them). Equal rights are not what ANY tournament is going to give you, not just the INT, but ANY tournament. Honestly, if you have 8 inverts, you should be riding Outlaw anyways.

Learn some 3's, trust me, it's not as hard as a few of the inverts you're throwing, I garuntee.

You all are right. I know I need to learn at least some 3 variations. Its not like I've never landed a 3, but damn those things hurt when you get pulled out the front.

Caleb, I'm planning on helping put on a tournament next spring. We will have beginner, intermediate, advance and outlaw as of right now. Probably a grom and girls open division. The advanced will be limited to 5 inverts and 5 spins total with spins not exceeding a 540. How does that sound? If you want to throw more than 5 spins or inverts then bump up to outlaw. Fair?

I can't stand INT. I used to compete in INT NorCal when I was younger (like 16-19) and kept getting 2nd place in Expert because the guy who won EVERY stop I went to won automatically (his mom was the judge on the boat...go figure). Even when I would stand my run up, and he would fall twice, he would somehow seem to outscore me. And the judge (his mom) would somehow "miss" some of my tricks and the other guy would get points for tricks that he never threw. After I protested this a few times with no luck, I quit riding INT. Its BS that they could even let that happen.

(Message edited by norcalbordr on October 08, 2009)

Jason you should come back. Its lots of fun. I would love to see the older guys come back and throw down. I used to ride in 1994-1996 then went on to play with the big boys. Scott Starkwether (spelling) also rode back then. They have Open Masters now which is 30 and over tons of fun. Just a bunch of old guys killing ourselfs.
Now its way more fun than the old days.I would say the judging is very fair now and now Nor Cal has a style system that is awsome. No more well he looked good so I will give him this many points. Plus now its one big family they all want each other to do well. No more of the don't talk to each other and hide till you ride.

Jason sorry you had a bad experience with INT. But I think if you gave it another shot Chuck and Linda Payton and their crew do one hell of a job with the events. People always make mistakes but they are great fun family events.

INT scoring is a joke. You get points for waving to the crowd and adjusting your shorts. (seriously)

Yeah, I have never had any problems with the judging other than honest mistakes that were later corrected.

cshell, those points are for the little kids and beg riders. Once you get up to expert and higher. Tricks under 400 don't count.

cshell, you dissing my bread & butter tricks? The Halfcab Crowd Wave to Powerslide is where its at, don't hate because you can't do it!

Seriously though, for a little kid where the wake is up to his waist and he can barely see out of the helmet his mom put on him, waving to the crowd (& mom) is a big deal. Let the groms rip as they will.

Cshell, yeah that's terrible. I mean, my 7 year old should've been throwin 3's & inverts when he first started competing..............

Im not talking about the groms, my wife got beat by another girl who did a surface 3 and a crowd wave when my wife was the only girl who went wake to wake and a heel 180. Just didn't add up.

Wakemania, that sounds fine. I'd add an open division though, just because that outlaw and advanced division will end up awfully crowded with a variety of skill levels

cshell, that is just someone knowing the point system. I got beat a few times. Due to the guy fell then did a inside out bs roll and then a one wake 360. I read the rule book and it was fine for him to do. So I took my beating and now know. Just have your wife do that and add some stuff to it. Also I think a surface 360 could be worth a wake to wake. Just read that book and once you get the rules down I am sure your wife will kill it. Some of the people in INT have been doing it for years and know just what to do to get that little extra points. I know some score wins are as close as 50 points which is just a extra grab. It gets that close at the INT here in Nor Cal.