Monster Tower Speakers?

Anybody have the Monster Tower WakeTunes ProAudio Speakers? I'm really interested. Look to be super loud.

Heres the link
http://www.monstertower.com/accessory2.html

I dont think their actually releasing them until febuary, but i agree, they look like they will be awesome! especially for the price!

I really like Monster Towers and I support their company (definitely would buy a tower from them if I didn't have one). HOWEVER, check out this link and then this link. It's that SAME SPEAKER (EV's EVID 6.2) for $305 LESS per pair. Granted, if you buy them from a regular EV distributor they don't come with custom tower mounts, but how expensive can those be?

Come on for all the money Monster tower has had to spend on the super model's He has to charge a bit more for his speakers, Its worth the extra $300 IMO for more thong shot's, come on support Monster Tower, Im sure if he dosen't sell enough he will have to start using Fat ulgy chick's to model his stuff and we all don't want that.

P.S My apoligeys to ulgy chick's

i agree! besides we know bill and monster and know that he will stand behind the product. not having to hassle with some company i have never heard of and get the runaround for weeks of my boarding season w/o tower speakers would be worth the extra scratch to me.

Yeah I agree support Monster. I ordered 3 of his calenders and when they came I told my wife they were for my buddies for Xmas, true. So I gave them away. But guess what, Monster sent out a 4th for free, with their new speaker information. YEAH!!! I get to keep this one and have an excuse for why it came, other than I ordered it!!!

Thanks Monster!!!

OUCH!

First, a huge thanks for the great comments and support. It is very appreciated. We are up to a whopping FOUR people now and are still in amazement! Mostly we are waiting for some warmer weather so we can go ride.

Unfortunately there are two competing groups of people selling audio equipment that makes it quite confusing for all of us customers. First are real companies with overhead like models, employees, tooling costs, inventory cost, models, marketing, advertising, insurance, shipping costs, and a zillion other companies trying to clean you out at every turn. Last but not least are dealers that you want to support in every way you can.

The others are people in their basement with a monthly DSL connection to pay for selling in a "Cost Plus" scenario in online shops and on eBay making as much or more on shipping as they are on the product sale. No offense at all, the internet gives the guy in the basement a chance to compete . It’s the great equalizer! I’ve been there several times.

In the world of Audio, the basement priced products are normally "Grey Market" so officially the manufacturer does not have to honor the warranty. They may be sold through an unauthorized dealer or come through a international distributor, or even they can be knock offs.. If they have a warranty or not depends on the audio company and the person you get on the phone. Audio companies all say they police selling below MAP but few if any actually do or even can in today world.

We definitely cannot compete dollar for dollar with a person drop shipping a box to you compared to a ready to install tower speaker with lots of added product costs and committed support after the sale.

We priced our product based on the manufacturers "MAP" or Minimum Advertised Price of $460 and not their Published MSRP of $580. We have worked with them extensively on this new product and have been very impressed with the products and the people there so far. They said we could not sell below $460 or they would stop selling to us so we went to the low of what they said we could sell it for and built our pricing model from there. Here is where our price comes from.

$460 - MAP on the speakers
$140 - Price of our bracket kit
$40 - Backing plate and custom adapter
$20 – MAP on the EV Terminal Covers to seal the connections
$35 - Amortized Tooling costs, Finishing Labor, Packaging Materials, Overhead, Inventory carrying, etc, etc.

We'll sell our part of the equation to make the speakers a Tower Speaker with all of the items above except the Speakers and Terminal Covers for $225/per pair to anyone who is interested and wants to get the speakers elsewhere and do the modifications themselves.

Sorry about the rambling but I wanted to clarify the value we are adding to make it ready to go on the tower.

I now have an entirely new respect for the marketing power of thongs to generate customer loyalty.



I know that Bill encourages people who try to find a way of doing things inexpensively for themselves (while still running a VERY successful company) and I think the $225 DIY yourself kit is a great compromise.

If we sell hundreds of them all our costs on our pieces go way down but having a machine shop do a dozen at a time is lots more expensive still.

Anyways, we did some of our typical "high tech redneck" testing this brisk afternoon in GA. We tested 6 different cans speakers and the WakeTunes Kicker & Pro. Each can speaker and the Kickers were given 100 RMS Watts/Ch at 4 Ohms and the Pro's were given twice that. We borrowed a pretty serious speaker selector to easily switch between speakers and keep the speaker impedance unchanged.

We went 80' behind the boat and setup a test table (OK, Stool) and sampled the average, C-weighted SPL over the first 30 seconds of "Linkin Park - Lying with You". The amp that runs the cockpit speakers and sub was disconnected so it was only the tower speakers we were hearing.

Results:
All can speakers were between 80 and 83 dB. The more expensive ones with components were at the higher end and definitely sounded better than the true coaxials.
The Kickers were at 82 dB with one pair and 86 dB with two pair
The Pro’s were at 93 dB
Two Pair of Kickers and the Pro’s together made it to 95 dB
The people in the boat need hearing protection at 90+ rider dB
There was NO ambient noise like the “real deal”. We have a john boat we will drag behind our 22V at 80” and repeat the tests as soon we get a warm day.
Testing speakers is pretty fun but it drains batteries quickly

How bout a picture?

How does the bass on the pro audio compare to the kicker seperates?

If maximum dB 80' behind the boat were the primary goal, then the tower speaker solution needs to include Horn Loaded Compression Drivers (HLCD's). Every stadium concert uses HLCD's to achieve very high dB even in an outdoor environment.

If the goal is to achieve the highest dB per dollar, then an outdoor speaker like the Electro Voice EVID 6.2 produces lots of dB's for $389.99.

http://www.electrovoice.com/electrovoice/EVfiles.nsf/lookup/EVID62-eds/$File/38109983.pdf

http://store.tradehawk.com/elev42sp.html

Many wakeboarders and boat owners have a different set of goals other than only maximum dB or highest dB per dollar. Many wakeboarders care about these things:

- Sound quality inside the boat
- Sound quality at the back of the boat where the rider prepares
- Sound quality around the boat while swimming, at the shore, or near the boat
- Great low end bass (not emphasizing mostly shrill mid)
- The style of the tower speakers. Custom color, polished, chrome, grills, mount quality and look, etc.

My boat has a professional level audio system with over 3,000 watts and 17 speakers. My design goal was sound quality in the boat, behind the boat, near the boat (like washing it down) and was not maximum dB at 80 feet back. Many outdoor and horn loaded speakers are loud but don't have the crystal clear sound and low end that I want in or near the boat.

I am currently using Skylon Deafcon III's with the Kicker components removed and upgraded to Image Dynamics Chameleon CXS52 5 1/4 inch components. I first tried two sets of 6 1/2 inch CXS62 but I was disappointed that they would not fit into the Skylon Deafcon III cans, they need a 7 inch can. The CXS62's are a professional level of components that handle 150 watts RMS per component (600 watts RMS for two sets) and put out 91dB of crystal clear sound per set - probably 93 - 95 for two sets.

Wakeside Design Studio's is currently working on our second project (the last project was the Wakeside Battle Rack that we did with Titan). This time we assembled a team that includes the top wakeboard tower speaker manufacturer with an engineer dedicated to this project, one of the leading audio manufacturers that specialize in professional components, subwoofers, and Horn Loaded Compression Drivers (HLCD's) and their top sound engineer. Our design goal includes everything on the list above plus 95 dB or more at 80 feet.

We believe that we will end up with a tower speaker model or two that look as stylish as the Wakeside Battle Rack, sounds crystal clear inside, right behind, and at 80 feet behind the boat and can pump out massive dB at 80 feet if desired. Most importantly great low-end bass is a key to us.

Another great tower speaker line this year is the Titan Alpha I and II. They started out with JL Audio components but they most likely will switch to the MB Quart components next month. They are the best looking and stylish tower speakers that I have seen to date. They are available in chrome too. What's amazing is that they got the weight to less than 7 pounds. Their design goal was great looks and style with crystal clear tunes in and around the boat, not maximum dB at 80 feet.

http://www.wakeside.com/page/W/CTGY/titan_wakeboard_tower_speakers

I would guess that some are running into problems when they crank up their tunes to 95 dB at 80 feet. Some lakes have sound limits and the ultra loud tunes may give us wakeboarders a bad name with the families, fishermen, and people living on or near the water. If we show more respect and some restraint, we will go a long way to get wakeboarding more favor and less restrictions going forward. Loud music is great for the one rider at 80 feet back, but what about the boat owner and the 8 people in the boat? I vote for quality sound with lots of bass.

Mike Hellweg
http://www.wakeside.com

Mike, I'm thinking along the same lines as you. I'm actually considering getting the deafcon III's and upgrading them with mb quarts. Also wondering about speaker box's versus cans in sound quality.

Stephen,

I tried to upgrade the Kickers but found out that the Kickers are really only 6.2 inch and they have a very shallow design so they fit into the smaller cans of the Deafcon series. To use MB Quart and the Image Dynamics components you need a 7 inch can. Titan Alpha line can hold the MB Quart speakers and so can the Mako cans.

http://www.wakeside.com/page/W/CTGY/wakeboard_tower_speakers

Mike
http://www.wakeside.com

I feel the best dB for the dollar is to buy grey market audio components from companies like Tradehawk.com (Pro audio) or IkeSound.com (car audio) or the many others like them, downside is there is no factory warranty, but the price is right. The honest ones have a disclaimer somewhere on their site like this one from Ike's (Please note that we are NOT authorized Kicker internet dealers. The warranty on any item purchased at Ikesound.com is ONLY through Ikesound.com. )

For a great "budget dB" speaker I'd recommend using the Kicker K6.2's that are only $79 a pair at http://www.ikesound.com/product-product_id/1874 and then go to www.diyTower.com and build a sent of cans and you'll have a great set of tower speaker for about $100 that will perform like the $810 MSRP pair of Defcon II's. Build two pair and you'll have good sounds from a "coax in a can" for a fraction of one pair of the tower cans speakers out there. You can also get the KB600's and other outdoor speakers on eBay and grey market dealers for under $100/pair and get some of the chassis shop brackets and be running for under $200/pair.

Mike’s comparing our Pro speakers at $695 to a grey market priced pair of Evids is the same as comparing a $800 set of Defcon II’s to a $79 set of K6.2’s. The MSRP on the Evid 6.2’s that we use in our pro speaker is $590 and does not include the EV terminal covers, brackets, backing plates, etc, etc.

We chose the Evid 6.2’s because of ElectroVoice (http://www.electrovoice.com) They don’t do home or car audio, only Pro audio and you see the EV logo everywhere at concert halls, stadiums, sports stadiums and other places that sound contractors design audio systems. We figured they knew much more than us about sound quality since they’ve been doing this stuff since 1927 and are leaders in their field. We had considered their SX80PI speakers (http://www.electrovoice.com/electrovoice/EVfiles.nsf/lookup/Sx80PIX/$File/sx80pi-eds.pdf) which would be insane loud but at $800/pair MSRP we would end up with nearly a $1000 tower speaker after adding the things needed to make it ready to install. They have 8” woofers and very high end HLCD’s. You can find these in the grey market for under $300 each, so a pair with some brackets could be done for about $700, which would likely blow away any tower speaker on the market today. They are very likely the most perfect DIY tower speaker available today for a very high end system.

Naturally if you want a fully supported speaker ready to bolt to your tower you’ll spend more $$$, but if you’re a do-it-yourselfer you can create some awesome tunes for a lot less than anything from us tower speaker peddlers.

(Message edited by MonsterTower on January 31, 2004)

Monster,
In your opinion, which sounds better (cleaner) between the k6.2's and the kb600's?

I'm now stuck between building a diamond plate box with 4 k6.2's or taking the easy rout and throwing some chasis shop brackets (which I already have) on 2 sets of kb600's. Which do you recomend? The 600's might not look as nice, but I like the idea of being able to point them to the bow when we're not boarding.

Where do you find the 600's for less than $100?

This is a tough question Greg becuase it's comparing two different animals. With the K6.2's you could build a trick box and get ideal volume for them to perform really awesome, add dynamat and polyfill, and tweak them. It would be a big but really rewarding project. Speaker projects are the most fun I've ever had as an engineer, which is why there is such an illogical over supply of tower speaker peddlers.

Two pair of the KB600's is a fast easy project where Kicker has tweaked and tuned the enclosure.

Either way you'll have great sound with 4 speakers up on the tower.

This link for the KB600's at $82 is from a company I know NOTHING about (http://shop.store.yahoo.com/vipmobileonline/kick03kb600.html). I've bought a lot of stuff this way for personal projects and have had few problems but am in no way recommending them since I have not done business with them. I just went to shopping.yahoo.com and searched for KB600's. I'm sure there are a lot of other places out there as well, and it may be worth a call or e-Mail to IkeSound.com to see if they have them. I've bought a lot from Ikes and have had no problems.

Bill,

I'm glad to see someone finally marinizing the EV line for wakeboard towers. I looked at the Evids when they came out, but I couldn't imagine how I could mount them to a tower without an engineer and a machine shop!

I'm impressed with your Kicker mounting bracket solution:



My first boat had Niles OS 20's suspended by theater AV clamps:



My concern was that the stock speaker U-bracket was a little flimsy and might fatigue and fail over time. It seems that the U-brackets for the pro audio pieces like EV and JBL's contractor control series are a little more robust.

Question:

Do you think your new bracket is engineered well enough to support an EV SX80pi? I'd love to see your dB readings on a pair of those!

Thanks Bill, I really appreciate the info.

Now I guess I just need to decide wheather to go with the quick and lazy, I mean easy, or take the time to build something that I'll probably be happier with. either way I can probably get my chassis shop clamps to work.

I found out yesterday that Titan has officially switched their new Alpha line to MB Quart for 2004. They will offer a Reference and Premium Series upgrade option that uses the either the RCE 216 or the PCE 216 MB Quart component speakers.

The Titan Alpha tower speakers with MB Quart will not create the same SPL level as the Electro Voice EVID 6.2 (Monster Pro) or the EV SX80, but I do expect the great quality sound that MB Quart is known for, just not at 80 feet back. For that, the EVID 6.2 (Monster Pro) sounds like a great solution.

Mike
http://www.wakeside.com

BTLowe - How did the Niles sound? We tested the Klipsch CA-6T and there is no way thier factory bracket would hold the CA-6T to a tower so this is the conern and where the work needs to be done.

The custom WakeTunes part is plenty strong it's the factory bracket that comes with the speaker that is the concern. With the Kicker the bracket is quite strong and the speaker is not overly heavy so no problem. With the Pro/EV we replace their mounting system with a machined adapter and a backing plate inside the speaker so it's strong.

We did not get a SX80pi for testing so I can't comment. I'd love to but with how expensive they are if I buy them from direct from EV (I can by them cheaper in the Grey market) they would be well over $1,000 at which point the Nvert and other ProAudio speakers coming to market would be hard to compete with.

Bill,

The Niles sounded great in the boat, but were almost inaudible at wakebord length & speed. There were two reasons for this:

The first is that the speakers were underpowered. I had the Clarion marine two channel amp driving them in bridged mono.

The second reason, and this is a problem with my current boat as well, is that the only time the stereo was turned up loud enough to hear was when I was driving. I am a musician, so I like my music LOUD. It seems my family and friends are not as enthusiastic!

For those reasons, I may not get tower speakers if (when) I ever get another wakeboard boat.

However, it will be a few years before I have to make that decision again...

Underpowered speakers, on a wakeboard boat - Sorry, Not Acceptable, Correct Imediately!

Got Amp?


Simple Formula - 1Amp for the boat + 1Amp for the rider =

I prefer two amps for the boat and one for the rider.

How do you guys like the Kicker amps? I've been considering a sub amp, a boat amp, and a tower amp (like Mikes setup) and I've really liked the Kicker stuff that I've heard, especially for the money. How do they compare with other midline amps like pioneer, fosgate, or eclipse?

I think the Kicker amps are the best price/performance amps on the market, especially for a boat. They always put out more watts than they are rated at, and they have internal cooling fans so they don't over heat. I have over 3,000 watts (as shown above) powering 17 speakers and mostly at a two ohm load! I have never over heated one of these.

I used two 800.4's and one 1200.1. The 800's were measured at the Kicker factory to put out more than 1,000 watts each. The 1200 was over 1,400 watts.

They are very easy to set up and you can get some great pricing on Kicker amps.

Last summer, Wakeside sold these along with lots of other audio equipment. This year will probably end up selling only selective products that we think are the best value and where we are an Authorized Internet Retailer with warranty, etc.

My last amp was a Fosgate, I like the Kickers better. I have no experience with Pioneer or Eclipse so I can't comment.

I also like the Kicker Amps for the money and here are the two I have. The 700.5 has 400W going to the sub and 75W x 4 Channels going the six interior speakers. The 800.4 has 200W going to each of the 4 Kicker tower speakers or we bridge it to 400W to two channels when running a pair of the Pro (louder and cleaner than two pair of Kickers). There's a lot of "Ohmage" stuff going on I don’t know about but I know I can get your ears hurting in under one song For what is primarily a family watersports boat it's wonderfully insane overkill.

If your "amping" up definitely consider a 5 channel. It's the same as having a sub amp and a 4 channel in one, unless you want the extra power of that extra amp. I know there are a lot of higher end amps that do better but the Kickers win my vote for providing good bank for the buck.

Thanks guys. Now I think I'm sold on the Kicker stuff.
The 5 channel sounds like a good idea. Will the sub channel on the 700.5 power 1 12" L5 solo-baric?

I have a 5 channel, with 1 powering sub, 2 powering the 4 interior speakers, and 2 powering the 2 tower speakers, I need to add two more tower speakers and I think I'd be set. (Assuming I don't want to spend tons of money on this stuff)

Greg - I have the 700.5 powering a 10" L5 solo-baric and the remote base control at the dash is very handy. I usually run the bass channel at 1/2 to 2/3 power and past that it is to much bass for my liking - then again there is no such thing as to much bass for some.

Monster - How do you like the solo? Are you glad you got the L5?

As I compare wattage vs. dollar amount, this is what I've come up with.

The kicker 600.4 should power my 4 boat speakers (front 2 channels) and 4 tower speakers (rear channels). That would give me 75 watts to each speaker @ 2 ohms rms.

The 300.2 will deliver 300 watts to my sub in bridge mode @ 4 ohms.

4 kb600's on the tower

1 solo 10" or 12" L5

4 kicker k60 coaxials in boat (just because I already have 1 pair).

That keeps me well under $700 for everything brand new! I already have a pioneer premier 740mp head unit, tower clamps, tons of monster cable,and 1 pair of k60"s.

The reason I want to get the 600.4 and the 300.2 instead of the 700.5 is just because I would be getting more wattage for less money.

Thanks for the help Monster and Mike. Now If I could only get you guys to talk my wife into letting me spend the money, I'd be set.

Just tell her that wakeboarding is a family thing and that music is part of the wakeboarding experience and the memories.

If that doesn't work you can try this: "quality sound from these amps is easier on the ears and everyone will be less nervous with less distortion".

If that doesn't work start a business that buys the amps as a tax write-off.

I already used the tax write off excuse with my ballast system last year, but she might go for the "family thing".

Badzuki - Love the 10' L5, it came in the Kicker sealed box that is coated with bedliner type material. It's all I need but then again I am not a huge bass junky.

Little update on the ElectroVoice Evid / ProAudio speakers coming in a few weeks. We are now officially an OEM Partner to ElectroVoice and will be lowering the price to $599/pair! If you like can speakers these are not for you but if you want amazing sound for the dollar these get the job done in a big way.

As soon as we get a warm day Breanne and Kaylee will assist with some better product pictures.

Monster,

I have 2 of the OS20s on my tower, I just had them thru bolted to my tower. No brackets at all. They are solid. As far as sound, they kick a** for the around the boat, on the beach, swimming type listening, The 80 foot out range is a little sketchy though. Some songs you can here great, others not so great. But keep in mind they are designed to fill a back yard with sound. Not so much to project sound. I will say going through the channel at Havasu with full power, they kick a**. They fill an area with clear sound.

On the Phat Budd tower that comes with Tige's in the SoCal area "Tige' Watersports", it has a perfect flat section on top of the tower to thru bolt the 0S20s to. Never had a problem with them shaking loose and they would be a bitch for someone to steal. You have to take them apart to release them. The bracket that comes with them would never work on a wakeboard boat, in fact I was cleaning the garage today and trashed them finally. LOL

I understand MAP and the protection for the sales channel. BUT, if you are putting together a value add package you can get away with going under MAP and have NO problems. Goal number one is to make money and stay in business. No dissagrement but, you can sell below MAP if you wanted too and just re-allocate your cost. I am sure you buy products everyday below MAP!

Kelly