ballast ballast ballast (rant)

I'm sick of these little kids thinking they need 4000 lbs of ballast when they can't even clear the wake yet. Guess what guys, it's easier to clear the wake when it's not up to your knees! And it doesn't create as many rollers either. I learned behind a Four Winns with no ballast and no pylon and it was still a blast. Eventually my dad bought an extended pylon and we thought we had died and gone to heaven. We were still able to learn inverts, raleys, spins, yada yada yada. The only thing that sucked about the boat was how hard it was to keep speed. Anyway, unless you are pulling 7's or 9's off the wake or advanced inverts, stock ballast is enough to get the job done.

AGREED!! my friend at school is always talking saying that he takes it into the flats behind is early 90's reinell, and if he had a v drive with weight in it he would get insane air. well he went in out 05 sea ray with 4 people and a 750 lb sac and he didnt clear the wake til the end of the day.i think its easier to clear the wake with no weight, but obviously you get more pop with weight.

what about Epics... the stock ballast is 4000. hehe.

but i do agree in part. partly i think that learning to go wake to wake is overcoming the intimidation of approaching the wake. why make it that much more intimidating by adding unnecessary ballast for the basic job. But if you got a person who has experience in other board sports and/or does not get intimidated by a wake, then go ahead and add some weight

... but this is all said from a guy who can count on one hand how many wake boats he has ridden behind with any reasonable amount of ballast

(Message edited by wakerider111 on September 28, 2009)

having had both a tiny wake behind my 17 foot crestliner ........and now having a big wake supra 21v.

the biggest difference is that behind the crestliner I had to do a perfect progressive edge jump to get good hang time. So to do grabs was tougher because of the line tension.....ollie jumps just werent worth it for me.



behind the 21v I can ollie jump nice and relaxed and get more hang time......if I cut the same progressive edge on the big wake.....well lets just say my body wont take too many of those...... the feeling your being shot up by a canon is pretty wicked though!

....having said that 2300lbs is more than enough!

"what about Epics... the stock ballast is 4000."

Ha ha I was thinking about that in my post, but you get the idea!

Knee injury rates go up... anyone ever ask if ballast could be part of it? People that can barely do a controlled jump behind a small wake think they need one twice the size to clear it?

......yeah......I tore my mcl last year and tweaked it this year.......I know it had something to do with the size of the wake and ultimately the size of the jump. Never did that on my crestliner.

I learned all my stuff behind a tournament boat with no weight. That being said stock ballast is not enough. I agree you don't need 4000 lbs but there is a happy medium. My buddy has a wakesetter and with the stock ballast and the wedge it is not very good.

Yea im going to have to disagree. Yea you dont need it, but come on, its way more fun to go big.

I love the system I have going on right now. I learn my tricks behind my usual ride, a Bayliner 175 that has at most 750lbs in sacks with a couple people, and once I have them dialed I can take them to the Wakesetter I get to ride behind on occasion. My progression seems easy to me because it is not intimidating behind the small wake and when I go to the big boy wakes I already almost have it dialed.

Why the hate. It they want to be posers then let them. We still live in a free country dont we?

so if you have the means to have a nice boat and a huge wake your a poser??

Brad, your bimini is the coolest thing since sliced bread. killer idea

I had a stock ebbtide...I/O....no ballast...learned backroll 360, indy tantrum to blind, 540s, raleys, etc....now i have a little ballast and can tell very little difference....so proves the point in this rant...you dont need a lot of ballast (or any in my case) to ride awesome ;)

i learned how to ride behind a bayliner...then this season learned how to go wake to wake on a sacked out x star...sure in the begining i may have made everyone in the boat look bad cuz i was on a legit boat and couldnt go wake to wake, but now as the season comes to an end, ive been riding behind many diff boats totaly slammed and it has made me a better rider because learning w2w on an SLAMMED x star has made me not intimidated AT ALL to hit big wakes. now I can pop huge toeside and heelside, and take big poked out grabs to the flats....and it feels GOOOOD! not that its not possible to do all that on a small wake...just not as fun! that being said...i owe what i can do now to the big wake behind my buddy's X star...

"Anyway, unless you are pulling 7's or 9's off the wake or advanced inverts, stock ballast is enough to get the job done."

Are you kidding!!!??? Have you ever ridden a slammed out boat? I feel so bad for you man. You don't even know what you are missing.

If you ever get the chance, put 3000lbs into a 205V and do a big indy backside 180 to the flats. It will be an eye opening experience no doubt.

This is like telling me I shouldn't bother flying out west during the winter because the hills here in Michigan are plenty big enough.

Ya man why the Hate om not a poser i have alot of basic inverts and the odd 5 but there is nothing better then hitting a knee high or higher wake... its the same as snowboarding hitting a big booter and a nice grab is sooo sick GO BIG OR GO HOME RIGHT?

there fore i slamm the •••••••• of my x2

I see both sides. Yes, this is a free country and everything. But he's just ranting that the guys that cant jump the wake and are slamming their boats are uselessly tearing up the water for everyone (which they kindof are). But that is their useless decision to make.

I hate to see people slam a boat and literally not even attempt to jump the wake. It defeats the purpose but I guess I don't really have a say in what they do with their money.

I can't do 7 or 9s, but I can do 1s and 3s and I feel like I'm improving while having a blast with a loaded boat.

Russell, riding a small wakes and very slammed wakes often involve different techniques. After you have been riding a while (not sure how long you have been riding), it becomes like snowboarders who just want to ride powder. Why bother with a smaller wake? Yes, you can do all the tricks on the smaller wake. Yes, you can become a great rider, however there is a reason pro's slam their boats out. Even a 1/2 a second more airtime can make a big difference on how you throw a trick (i.e. longer grab, less hucked looking, confidence to attempt an additional 180 to a spin).

There is a balance, no doubt, but I feel like if you learn on a large wake and always ride a large wake, you are way ahead of most people. I know I learned on an I/O and there is difinetly a transitional learning time.

With more weight comes more speed for a clean wake, so for the newer riders, I do not load up the ballast so I can go a little bit slower. I have also withheld ballast from those that could not clear the wake from both sides, mostly to get them jumping TS, but think having more wake is a fun good thing once you have a few fundamentals down.

Here's my thing. sure I like getting booted, but I like being consistent a whole lot more. That, and if you get launched, the crashes are going to be worse. I learned behind an UNWEIGHTED 17'6" Bayliner which we fab'd a pylon into. No PP, nothing wakeboard related other than the stainless pole we mounted in it. I rocked that thing for YEARS before even getting behind a wake boat, and now, after learning how to hit a small wake, learning how to edge properly, learning the basics (because you had to get it perfect to go w2w @75 ft) I can hit almost anything, but ride my best with around 2000-2500 lbs in my buddy's 205V hull X star. Sure we dump it to 4 K every now and then, but generally I hit it a hand full of times, then get in the boat and request we dump 1500 lbs.

Very good point AtTheLake - It does take more speed to clean up the huge wakes, which then increase the severity of falls, especially on newer riders.

When out specifically to learn new stuff, I have a group of friends who load a bit less ballast and slow the boat down 1.5 MPH to keep the wake big but make the falls hurt less, it works great. I'm not saying No, I never want a huge wake, but for learning, I honestly think it hurts you more to learn on a big wake than a small one, because you can get away with horrible technique. If you can dial in W2W's with little to no weight, you'll have much better results (not only air, but in less injuries) when you load her down.

I think the point of the thread was that those who can't even clear the wake yet do not need 4000lbs of ballast. I don't believe those that can't clear the wake appreciate extra ballast. Once they can do some basics then give them the extra bump.

Maybe they ride with people who can throw higher level tricks and they just don't want to waste time filling & unfilling ballast between riders/sets?

My post had a bit of sarcasm that must have been missed by a few. It was kinda like the wakesurfing thread.

As for big wakes, its like once you go black you never go back.

I have ridden small wakes but nothing compares to bootin a big meaty wake. I have a few spins and an invert or two on a good day, but I like a big wake.

And thanks for the compliments on the bimini. I would love to take credit but my dealer actually orders alot of them that way and he gave me the idea.

I have an epic, I keep it slammed 4000 lbs of ballast 24/7 so people think Im dope boy fresh...

I have been a big proponent of weigh the piss out of it. Now with the MB Tomcat I actually have beginners and intermediate riders asking me to empty the tanks because the wake is too big. Kind of funny to hear riders who claim to have big wakes come over and ask me to take half the water out. In the mean time the entire West Coast Hyperlite team that road it last week could not believe I was not hiding sacks or lead under the seats.

My kids are pretty good riders. They enjoy a big wake as much as anyone. However, they have started doing a fundamental set with short line and no weight pretty much every time we go out. They are able to learn tricks more quickly with less trauma than they can on a big wake. This seems to be especially effective for learning spins, switch spins, backside spins, and switch backside spins. Once they have it down on the small wake, they take it to the big wake. Sooo for those riders who "have a few spins and an invert or two on a good day" work on your fundamentals on a small wake. It will pay big dividends in helping your overall progression.

PLA guys, progressive learning approach. Big wake =big air(if you've got the coco's). Don't get me wrong love to go big, but even as an intermediate rider I've been behind a few boats that were just to big for me and my old ACL's. The wake should be set so you can charge it comfortably if your scared of the wake you're gonna have a bad run. My kids pointed out a sacked out MC one time being ridden by a bunch of guy that could not even clear the wake. Even at 13 and 15 yrs old they looked at me and said WHY?? I say if you've got game load it up but otherwise set it up comfortable for you.

Don't get me wrong fellas and ladies, I love a big meaty wake as much as the next guy, I just don't like how some people, especially beginners, feel that you can't have fun on a smaller wake. I went to the lake a few weeks ago after work behind an X-30 and there was only about an hour of sun left. There were four of us who wanted to ride and the guy who owned the boat (who could not clear the wake) wanted to slam it out first, which took 15-20 minutes. Although he may have been doing it for us, we told him we can just go but he seemed persistent to fill up all the sacks. If you have the skills and enjoy it more with a slammed out boat, go for it. But don't feel like you can't go out and have fun if your boat is sub-par with little to no ballast.

I have been riding since '94 for the guy who asked.

Someone sounds bitter they started off on a i/o not a nautique. Anyways id rather have extra ballast then not enough.

Cause I'd rather grab and poke than slap...

Love my slammed out 22SSV but if I pull someone who is new or rides very little I will dump half. 2000 pounds of ballist is great for them and still my be much. Yeah I slam 4000 in mine. So what of it lol.. HAHA

If its not slumpin, I'm not ridin.......Ha ha, just kidding but not really.

progression....... let these kids blow up the wakes and support them. I am sure guys in the 90's were saying get rid of that pole it's not needed etc. if we dont experiment things go stale.

Where the pic of the bimini+ want to see it? Jet

Way more fun to go as big as you can. I say add all the weight your boat can handle and charge the wake, even if you can't do 7s and 9s.

I smell someone bitter of the "little kids" who rip way hard than he ever will.


+1 for J-rod, learn the basics on a stock wake, then BOOM! go nuts.

You seem real cool Nick. If I'm ever in WI I should look you up so we can go rip together. Oh wait, I can't. Nuts

Andrew look at my profile pic.

ya ive got this friend who puts way too much weight in his boat and doesnt need it. he rides this 06 x-1 and charges like 4000lbs. totally rediculous. all he does are huge hs fs nose 1's and the prettiest crows ive ever seen. he can start ridign that much weight when he starts charging 7's.

This room needs a shirts off hug session, come on..... shirts off gather around.

For those saying dudes should be killing it to need weight, here is another situation where its completely acceptable to rock weight...when you get older! There are a LOT of guys I have met that rip and could rip really hard if they were focused on wakeboarding. For them its an occasional hobby and they choose not to put their body at risk in the name of progression (face it, you get hurt trying new stuff). I have had a few peeps behind my boat only throwing stock stuff like crows, cabs, etc. They definitely have the skill set to push their riding, but they are more focused on paying the mortgage. Their basics are spot on and they just prefer to tool around rather than try and rip...Just something to think about next time you see someone throwing 180's down the lake with a mackin wake.