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Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       12-23-2008, 1:06 PM Reply   
I am in the market for a new boat. Actually, it will be my first. I am a beginner and this is will be a family boat (four kids under the age of 10).

I have been researching for longer than I care to admit (years, not months) and have been on quite a few test drives.

My budget is $32K. I'd like a beam of at least 98". But the boat can't be longer than 22' (w/out swim platform).

Here's what I'm considering:

1) 2008 Calabria Pro V (brand new leftover). I have seen them listed in the mid-high $30's. I wonder if I could get a dealer down to $32k??

2) 2005 Malibu Wakesetter VLX. I have seen a couple in the mid-$30's. Not as big inside as the Pro V, but very tempting.

3) 2007 Supreme V208 (brand new repo). I have found quite a few of these for low-$30's, but they are only 95" beam.

4) 2004 Malibu Wakesetter VLX. There is one in Bend that's only $24K, but again the beam is only 93"

Which would you hit?

Or point me in a different direction. What would you buy TODAY with $32K?
Old    Brandon Kee (trickyboarder08)      Join Date: Jul 2005       12-23-2008, 1:18 PM Reply   
out of those, 05 Wakesetter is my choice.
Old    Ewing (johnsvt)      Join Date: Dec 2006       12-23-2008, 1:25 PM Reply   
Why a 98" beam?
Old    TigeMike (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       12-23-2008, 1:29 PM Reply   
Out of those listed, the 05 VLX.

Other options: 1-2 yr old Tige 20V (20', 96" beam) - Tower w/swivel racks, ballast, trailer, 340hp, cruise, bimini.
or
3-4 yr old 22V/Ve (22', 102" beam. Similar options.

Great boats, great ride, family friendly
Old    TODD YOST (yodd_tost)      Join Date: Aug 2007       12-23-2008, 1:30 PM Reply   
Save money and go for the 04 for 24k thats a great deal
Old    Rob.B (rbeckei)      Join Date: May 2007       12-23-2008, 1:41 PM Reply   
If you can get a Pro V for that amount get it. New boat, Excellent boat, Warranty, This is a win win situation. Can't go wrong.
Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       12-23-2008, 1:47 PM Reply   
^^^^
I just want the extra room. Simple as that.

I can't exceed 22' in length due to garage size. With that limitation, I decided I want as much room as possible inside the boat. That means I want a wide beam.

I spent months looking at MC X-2's (the old hull) but ultimately decided they are just too cramped inside.

My family is big and kids will just keep getting bigger. I also want the flexibility to be on the water with another family in boat.

This is what makes the Calabria so enticing... 102" beam... it's HUGE inside for a 21.5' foot boat.
Old    Cal (phenom_1819)      Join Date: Jan 2008       12-23-2008, 1:47 PM Reply   
Agree with Rob, the Calabria for that price. Have you considered a Supra 21V? There are a number of very nice ones for sale in the Seattle and Portland areas right now that are priced in (or could be negotiated into) your price range.
Old    Jay (jay_g)      Join Date: Apr 2006       12-23-2008, 1:50 PM Reply   
u could get a new leftover Moomba Outback V
Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       12-23-2008, 2:00 PM Reply   
^^^^
Actually, I just started to consider the Supra 21V the other day. Great looking boat. I love the tower and how some have Z5 rack.

The only thing I don't like is the play pen bow. I'd like to actually be able to sit in the bow, but I recognize the benefit of bow ballast, too.

What are thoughts on 21v vs. VLX?
Old    MOX (uofamox)      Join Date: Feb 2007       12-23-2008, 2:07 PM Reply   
I am partial to my Pro V and love the interior space and storage. If not the Calabria I would consider the VLX. It is a great boat but storage/interior is smaller than the Pro V.

I would stay away from the Supreme. Out here in CA with your price range there are a lot of Sanger lovers out here since there also are manufactured locally.
Old    billy d williams (billy2603)      Join Date: Mar 2007       12-23-2008, 2:14 PM Reply   
Just out of curiosity, did you account for the additional trailer length in that 22ft limit? That would stink to get home with your new boat and go ooohhhh sh*t....
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       12-23-2008, 2:21 PM Reply   
Also, the ProV has either a manual plate or trim tab on the back which makes it rigth at or a little longer than 22'
Old    Bill K (bill_airjunky)      Join Date: Apr 2002       12-23-2008, 2:33 PM Reply   
One thing we have not liked about the Pro-V is how shallow the interior is. Sitting in the seat & the back hits me below the shoulder blades. With the VLX (I ended up buying a Vride, same as the 04 VLX), I felt like I was sitting down inside the boat more.
Seems like with small kids that might be a consideration to keep in mind.
Old    Nu Bu (05mobiuslsv)      Join Date: Apr 2006       12-23-2008, 2:39 PM Reply   
I'd go with the 05 VLX.

Tigemike just had to throw in some other options that weren't even on the list .
Old    wake (buguru)      Join Date: Feb 2006       12-23-2008, 2:43 PM Reply   
05 BU ~~
Old    TigeMike (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       12-23-2008, 2:45 PM Reply   
Nu Bu,

From the bottom of the OP:

"Or point me in a different direction. What would you buy TODAY with $32K?"

If the the door is cracked, why not
Old    Nu Bu (05mobiuslsv)      Join Date: Apr 2006       12-23-2008, 2:50 PM Reply   
^^^Good point...
Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       12-23-2008, 3:12 PM Reply   
^^^^
Garage depth is actually 22.5'

So I think if I stay with a 21.5' foot boat I should be okay.
Old    Darren Yearsley (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       12-23-2008, 3:47 PM Reply   
I would look at the Sanger V215 as well
Old    Ken Land (bulletlines)      Join Date: Apr 2005       12-23-2008, 4:33 PM Reply   
Supra 22SSV... I would look at a 03, 04, and you might be able to find an 05 in your price range. It has a wide beam and length is at 21' 10"... Most of them come with swing away tongues on the trailer, and some have the walk thru bow instead of the playpin

My second choice would be a MB B52 21V. You will have to look to see what years are in your price range. This boat is wide, and produces one of the biggest wakes I've seen..

(Message edited by bulletlines on December 23, 2008)

(Message edited by bulletlines on December 23, 2008)
Old    Jeremy Hawkinson (hawk22)      Join Date: Jul 2006       12-23-2008, 5:12 PM Reply   
If it is still available, there was a brand new 07 Moomba Mobius LSV for exactly 32k in Cali. It had quite a few options and full factory warranty. I strongly considered that boat, but then decided to go with an older boat to save money. Let me know if you're interested, I think I have an old email from the dealer.
Old    Chris (rio_sanger)      Join Date: Apr 2007       12-23-2008, 5:17 PM Reply   
"Garage depth is actually 22.5' So I think if I stay with a 21.5' foot boat I should be okay."

Sounds like you could be cutting it close David. Make sure the swim step removes easily, and the trailer tongue folds away or removes.
My 20'8" V-210 needs around 25 feet with step on and tongue out.
Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       12-23-2008, 5:40 PM Reply   
^^^^
Yeah, it's so hard to know if a given boat will fit without actually trying. There are so many variables. I assume the swim step comes off. But if it's a Malibu, you have to take the wedge into account, even more if it's the power wedge. Other boats have wake plates. The biggest x-factor is the trailer itself. I have noticed that some tongues swing all the way under the bow. Others still protrude up to 6" or more.

Sigh... this is a pain. Shopping for a car is soooo much easier.
Old    Flight007 (poser007)      Join Date: Nov 2004       12-23-2008, 5:52 PM Reply   
Not sure where u are located but you did mention bend Oregon so thought I would let yo uknow about an 05 VLX a guy is selling in Medford. You can pick it up for 34 grand which is a steal its blue and white and has every option and a nice sound system. I have not seen a better deal out there. If you are interested I will get you his info so you can contact him.
Old    Cal (phenom_1819)      Join Date: Jan 2008       12-23-2008, 5:53 PM Reply   
I think you're right about on, though... I researched all this when I bought my boat -- the wake plate adds about 8" if I remember correctly. Swing-away tongues vary greatly. I think mine adds about 6-8" or so to the nose. So my 22'6" boat with a wakeplate and swing-away needs an absolute minimum of about 24 feet...

Have you considered the Moomba LSV? Could be another option that is a great family boat with a nice wake and lots of room... and would likely fit.

Good luck.
Old    Flight007 (poser007)      Join Date: Nov 2004       12-23-2008, 5:53 PM Reply   
Oh one more thing you do know the beam on a VLX is 98 right?
Old    Nu Bu (05mobiuslsv)      Join Date: Apr 2006       12-23-2008, 6:18 PM Reply   
David a Malibu vlx with manual wedge (in down position) and extreme trailer with swing away tongue is 22' with platform removed.
Old    Ian Brown (wakereviews)      Join Date: Sep 2006       12-23-2008, 6:41 PM Reply   
what state are you in?
Old    TODD YOST (yodd_tost)      Join Date: Aug 2007       12-23-2008, 7:15 PM Reply   
Remember if your budget is 32k you still have tax on top of that, will put you at more like 34-35k. Just somethin to keep in mind.
Old    Tim C (lifetimewarranty)      Join Date: Oct 2008       12-23-2008, 7:21 PM Reply   
Shopping for a car is SOOO much easier? I just realized an international CXT won't fit in my garage!!! Also, the Ford F650 is too big also!

Whoa is me.

Oh - I would recommend Sanger (from experience) - not to say I wouldn't recommend the others if I had the experience of those... I do love the X2 (old x-star style) though.
Old    Dan (dppaneig)      Join Date: Feb 2008       12-23-2008, 7:26 PM Reply   
David, I have the Sanger V215 and my garage is 23' deep. With the platform removed and with the swing away tongue, I have 1/2" from my garage door. Very close and I got lucky, make sure you take a tape measure with you to check.
Old    Jeremy Hawkinson (hawk22)      Join Date: Jul 2006       12-23-2008, 7:51 PM Reply   
I'll add another .02 You really need to determine if you budget is !32K! or "32k". I just purchased two weeks ago after searching pretty aggresively for 3-4 months. My original budget started at 30k, but once it was at 30k, a new Mobius for 33k sounded tempting, but when that sounded tempting at 33k, the 05 Wakesetter at 36k seeemed within reach. I'm glad I realized my budget needed to be !30k!. Because, like Todd said, I also had to factor in 2-3k in taxes if you have them. Then, if the boat doesn't have everything you want you need to add it. I was also looking at the New Supremes and I was convinced that was the route I was going because I could've had the V208 w/ warranty for 30k. But when I added tax, I was at 33k. Then I add PP and tower speakers and heater and shower and upgraded ballast. I was at nearly a 40k boat, which I'm glad I realized before I finally purchased. Once I realized that it made my decision a lot easier. Just figure out your !budget! and figure out what you need and whats worth it for you. I can already see you are similar to me when you say your budget is 32k, but some of the boats you listed are mid-high 30k range. Once you add tax and other options, your budget is way skiewed from that 32k figure.
Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       12-23-2008, 10:11 PM Reply   
^^^^
I am in Portland, OR. Sales tax is not an issue.
Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       12-23-2008, 10:25 PM Reply   
^^^^
Jeremy... I hear what you are saying. I don't have tax to worry about. But I would like PP, heater, racks, and a nice system (incl. tower speakers, amp, and sub). Most new boats don't have ALL this stuff... some of it, but not ALL of it.

That's why the used boats are tempting. In most cases the previous owner has already been down that road and added all the goodies.

I have a feeling that it's going to come down to:

1) new boat with NO goodies, or

2) used boat with ALL the goodies


To answer your question... my budget is !32k!

The only reason I listed boats in the mid-30's was me thinking that in this environment I might be able to negotiate those boats down to within my budget.

Honestly, I have been researching boats for 3 years (no joke). I started to get real serious about 6 months ago. I don't think a day has passed in those 6 months that I haven't done a Craigslist search of the entire west coast (I hit Boat Trader probably once a week). Soooo many of the boats I was looking at 6 months ago are still there today. I guess this makes me think I can get a boat listed in the mid-30's down to $32k.

I wonder what $32k would do for me at the Portland Boat Show.....

(Message edited by IXFE on December 23, 2008)
Old    Scott Voruz (svoruz)      Join Date: Nov 2008       12-23-2008, 10:59 PM Reply   
Interesting... I'm in Portland and in the market for a wake boat as well. Maybe we can team up and take two off their hands for an even better deal. I followed Hawk22's quest. Reading through his experiences he found great deals within your price range. These boats must still be out there in our area. But they come and go quickly when they are such a good deal.
Old    Nu Bu (05mobiuslsv)      Join Date: Apr 2006       12-23-2008, 11:01 PM Reply   
This could be an option for you.

http://seattle.craigslist.org/sno/boa/968284781.html
Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       12-24-2008, 1:41 AM Reply   
I spoke with the CFO... playpen bows are out of the question. That eliminates the 21V.
Old    Jeremy Hawkinson (hawk22)      Join Date: Jul 2006       12-24-2008, 3:48 AM Reply   
that's nice you don't have to pay taxes on your purchase. It actually can make or break a deal when you live in WA or I'm sure any other taxed state. I'm sure you've seen David, but I've posted that listing for the 04 Wakesetter. I posted it for a guy named Jim at Auto Network in Bend, OR. He's the one who bought my boat at auction for me and he also picked up this Wakesetter and another 03 Wakesetter that he ended up selling to someone else. He is really cool to work with. He seem to know his stuff quite a bit. He's the same guy that had the X2 I wanted awhile back, but he prices it quite fair so they don't seem to last. But I'd feel comfortable purchasing from him. Not only do you get the report from the auction, but he also brings it back to his shop and tests it under his standards as well. He is really good to work with. If you want to take your chances at auction he goes about once a month or so. Who knows what will be up for auction, but there was quite a few that I considered: 03 and 04 wakesetters, 03 and 05 supra launch, quite a few newer Air Warriors and Supremes, and there was even an X-Star that went at the last auction as well as a couple X-30s. You're taking your chances, but with Jim's knowledge I feel confident you would end up with a good boat. Let me know if you'd like to pursue that option. I can get you in touch with him.
Old    Eyekahn (eyekahn)      Join Date: Aug 2007       12-24-2008, 6:42 AM Reply   
My buddy has an 2006 vlx in that price range. PM me for info.
Old     (will5150)      Join Date: Oct 2002       12-24-2008, 7:07 AM Reply   
I didn't read through the whole chain- but are you considering a USED boat? at 32K you can get some great stuff- How about a Tige 22VE ( 102" beam and 21' 8" long. with a swing tongue in will fit in a 22' garage. The '05 and newer are awesome.
Old    Marc Rounds (calipackfan)      Join Date: Jul 2008       12-24-2008, 10:03 AM Reply   
^^^^ Amazingly enough, I got on this thread this morning, and this guy sounds exactly like me. I've been looking for a first time boat for about 6 months, and came to a budget of around 32k.
I've looked at the supreme repo's out there, seem OK, buddies have VLX's and VRides and swear by them. Another friend has a V215, loves it. And one family I know has an older Tige and will not buy anything else.
My question would be, where would I find a 22VE for around 30K, and what condition would it be in?
Any Tige owners out there care to chime in on what they think of them? thanks guys.
Old    Nu Bu (05mobiuslsv)      Join Date: Apr 2006       12-24-2008, 10:18 AM Reply   
With the tapps plate it will be longer than 21.8' correct?
Old    David Bell (dabell)      Join Date: Apr 2007       12-24-2008, 10:35 AM Reply   
NuBu, you are correct. The 22Ve is 22 feet + the TAPS plate. I think it's about 10" in length.
Old    pdxWAKE.com            12-24-2008, 10:47 AM Reply   
David,
Don't discount the playpen until you have tried it. It is actually the wife and kids that ususally like it the most. Here are the benefits of it, but yes it is just preference and how you use it.
-TONS more storage
-Gives you the ability to upgrade your ballast anytime and have it all plumbed and hidden and not sitting in your walk way.
- The seats in the playpen pop up so you have more seating, more comfortable, and a little more of a plush look.
-Pop the seat backrest up and it provides a block from the wind under the windshield on those cold days.

Like I say it is all preference, but do check it out as it is one of my favorite things about Supra. Also, if you are local here in Portland you might check out pdxWAKE.com and chat with some of the locals on what is available or what they have seen.
Good luck in your search and if you have any interest checking out a 21V and the play pen, I have mine in heated storage and would be happy to show you. Out of your price range, but might be worth seeing one before heading to the dealers. I have a buddy that has a 21V that is a bit closer to your price range that you may have seen on CL
Good luck and enjoy the snow!
Old    Scott Voruz (svoruz)      Join Date: Nov 2008       12-24-2008, 10:56 AM Reply   
^^^ I agree with DIGGS. I have a bow cushion that has never been taken out since I owned it. Personal preference.
Old    Cal (phenom_1819)      Join Date: Jan 2008       12-24-2008, 11:16 AM Reply   
Diggs goes over the top to help people in the NW out, to make their own informed and educated buying decisions. Did the same for me before I bought my boat, and provided info that proved VERY helpful. You're a good man, Tyler. Merry Christmas to you and your family.
Old    pdxWAKE.com            12-24-2008, 11:21 AM Reply   
ahh cal... so nice guy... merry x mas to you as well... you coming down to the boat show at all? let us know if you are and wanna hang with the group.... always fun at the boat show...
Old    Tampa Wake (tampawake)      Join Date: Mar 2008       12-24-2008, 11:46 AM Reply   
The roomiest 20ft boat in that price range is probably the 20V I really liked that boat. I don't own one but give Tige a try you will be shocked one of the BEST riding boats I have ever been in. Especially for that size. I think it has a 98" beam. You could get on probably 1 - 3 years old.
Old    Cal (phenom_1819)      Join Date: Jan 2008       12-24-2008, 1:41 PM Reply   
Tyler, yes I'm going to try and make it down. I'll get in touch with you in the next couple weeks. ...Hijack over.
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       12-24-2008, 4:37 PM Reply   
I know the boat that is listed on craigslist as well as the guy (he did all my flat work on my house). It's a nice boat but it does have a custom paint job black with realistic flames and it and it says his last name across the back in flames but could be changed. He use to use it a ton but then moved to the lake had a couple kids and I rarely see it off the lift the last couple years. The price is very good for what you're getting if you can live with the playpen which I don't know why you couldn't.
Old    Randy Scagliotti (wakedad33)      Join Date: Oct 2005       12-24-2008, 8:19 PM Reply   
Diggs are you going to the boat show opening weekend? Alex and I well be there, mostly hang at the AWS location, let's have a beverage
Old    Billy (woreout)      Join Date: Aug 2006       12-24-2008, 8:54 PM Reply   
I have seen a few 05,06 MC X10's for that much money. They are 21ft long and 96 inches wide very deep and roomy cockpit and bow so the little ones wont fall out.
Old    Jon Clay (jclay5)      Join Date: Nov 2008       12-24-2008, 10:55 PM Reply   
I realllly didn't want a playpen bow, but now that I have one I can't imagine not having it... as a matter of fact I will probably always try to get a boat with one. I was glad to see the new axis has one.
Old    Cory Hoard (cory_h)      Join Date: Oct 2008       12-25-2008, 12:45 AM Reply   
I second the playpen bow!! I looked specifically for a boat that had one when we upgraded from our 2004 Mb Sports as it had one and it is great for kids and for lounging.
Old    matt (2onboone)      Join Date: Mar 2007       12-25-2008, 10:05 AM Reply   
hey 06 loaded avalanche for $35,000
Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       12-27-2008, 1:29 AM Reply   
I don't see why folks love the playpen bow so much. Seems like the only benefit is the fact that it hides the bow ballast.

Other than that, I don't know why anybody would want LESS room for occupants to sit. In fact, with a bow cushion (as opposed to a permanent playpen) you can have it either way.

My concern with the playpen is that kids will be less safe up there as the playpen is very shallow. Adults will be cramped without the ability to put their legs down and sit in a upright position.

In the Supra, the set up isn't limited to just the bow; it eliminates the entire walk through area. Maybe it's just my perception, but this makes the boat seem much smaller with all this lost floor space. It also seems like it would make getting in and out of drivers seat difficult.

What am I missing?


Upload
Old    Trace (trace)      Join Date: Feb 2002       12-27-2008, 7:34 AM Reply   
I think what you're missing is that people sit on seats (or sacks/coolers), not the floor.

+4 or whatever, playpen bows rock, for all the reasons above. Supra's flip-up seat backs make it that much better.

There is actually quite a bit more seating up front with a playpen IMO. You don't need a floor to put your feet on. It doesn't really affect the shallowness of the bow (since people don't sit on the floor), that has more to do with the hull design. It also allows the observer seat to be wider since there's no need to cut it short for the walk-thru.
Old    pdxWAKE.com            12-27-2008, 10:36 AM Reply   
Yeah David you are definitely missing it. Check one out and sit in it you will see. The 21V is a pretty deap boat so you will not have the freeboard issue you are talking about. As trace said the play pen actually gives you more seating not less. There are two back rests that simply flip up on that walk through. One for the front and one for the back. It provides two extra seats. Yes you can relax and stretch your feet all the way out as well. Here this pic should show it with both of them open. Gives you a better idea of how you just created two new seats. Like I said before it is not for everybody, but it really does the opposite of what your concerns are and is why most people appreciate them.
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m95/tyler97217/SSL10004.jpg
Old    pdxWAKE.com            12-27-2008, 10:44 AM Reply   
Legal seating capacity is 13 on this boat and 14 on the new 09. Getting in and out of the drivers seat is not difficult, but I could give you that one as an objection since you do have to step over it a bit. Get an 07 or 08 and they have swivel driver seats or put one on an older model.
Like I mentioned before I am local if you want to check mine out and sit in it or my buddies that is more in your price point. No harm if you are not interested in the boats as it is always good to get to know local folks.
Old    AWS            12-27-2008, 12:09 PM Reply   
Dave did you get the pics of the 07 LSV i sent you, it has a walk thru bow with the playpen option.
Old    Bill K (bill_airjunky)      Join Date: Apr 2002       12-28-2008, 2:24 AM Reply   
We have the playpen bow on the Vride with the removeable center cushion, and like everyone is saying it's a great concept. Typically it's used by 2 or 3 people to just lounge back & soak up the sun. I don't think we've ever run into a situation where we needed to be able to sit up & put our feet down on the floor for any reason.

The seat in the walk thru is something I've considered building for my Vride. The floor space is basically a waste & usually has stuff piled up there. I made one in my old 205 & it was great to be able to sit 3 or 4 people across the front. Plus you have storage inside the seat for whatever. If you have to go to the bow, stepping on the seat to do it is a necessity.... just gotta get used to it.

I saw a walk thru seat a while back that was a downfiring subwoofer box. He had a wire that plugged into it from under the driver's side dash, which made it removeable if needed. And it sounded GREAT!
Old    TigeMike (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       12-28-2008, 10:45 AM Reply   
Supra was on our short list 3 yrs ago when we bought, and I have to honest that the "Play Pen" was a huge turn off. I'll explain why: with the bimini up, we found that in order to get into the bow, you had to crawl. Because of the length of the bimini and the seating extending all the way through what would be the walk-thru, you had to step up and crouch down at the same time to get into the bow. This is not easy for every passenger, including us as owners. Not to mention the fact that the only way to the nose of the boat was to walk on the cousins.

Point is, this is a personal preference, and should be experience by the perspective buyers, and let them draw their own conclusions as we did. We like having the removable bow filler cushion, gives us the same playpen type seating with the option of stowing the cushion when needed.
Old    Jeremy Hawkinson (hawk22)      Join Date: Jul 2006       12-29-2008, 8:47 PM Reply   
yeah, playpen is a like it or hate it issue. I have a playpen bow in my older supra and i don't really like it, but my new Supra that I just got with the seats that flip up to create actual seat in the bow and in the back---boss!

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