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Old     (hoookwake)      Join Date: Sep 2005       08-08-2006, 4:34 PM Reply   
Has anyone out there modified some massive boat or used some massive boat for wakesurfing? Does anyone have any pictures of this? I mean has someone used a Yaught or Huge Fisher or some kind of cruiser? ANYTHING just HUGE? Please Post Pictures!!
Old     (hoookwake)      Join Date: Sep 2005       08-08-2006, 4:43 PM Reply   
I mean someone out there is cash galore must have experimented with a 40 foot boat with Thousands and Thousand of pounds of balast or tweaked a design in a way to make something beyond massive out there!
Old     (jimgalloway)      Join Date: Aug 2005       08-08-2006, 10:00 PM Reply   
Rick, arrow down to the 7/7/05 post by David P. entitled "Biggest wakesurf wave EVER". Also, another blogger, Curtis Haynie has a 36 footer. He may respond, and promises to post some pictures soon. Im trying to decide between a 34' Bayliner or Searay, or one of the largest wakeboats. My problem is that Im in Ventura, and there are no bays or intercoastal waterways around here. Just Lake Piru, a 45 minute drive.

(Message edited by Jimgalloway on August 08, 2006)
Old    surfdad            08-09-2006, 5:15 AM Reply   
No pictures, but there are video segments in Young Guns II (Kelly Slater and company behind some massive yacht) and Step Into Liquid where they surf the rollers from tankers for miles. :-) I'd think 35,000+ tons of dead weight would make a sizable wake. :-)
Old     (souperfly)      Join Date: Apr 2006       08-09-2006, 10:11 AM Reply   
Here's a couple big surf pic (IMO) from our Malibucrew Texas meeting:


2006 Malibu Wakesetter LSV/power wedge, stock ballast +400
Upload

2006 Malibu Wakesetter 247. Unknown ballast. Bad pic
Upload
Old     (dentard)      Join Date: Apr 2006       08-09-2006, 1:28 PM Reply   
Rick. I'm going for a head high wake. Upload
Upload
Old     (chipconrad)      Join Date: Jun 2006       08-10-2006, 9:16 AM Reply   
http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/87668/340872.html?1155082031

This guy let us use his boat for a second. Its a 47' er.

Rick, i have a feeling we have no idea how big the wakes are going to get in the next few years. This sport is blowing up and the boat manus are going to take notice. I say head high by the 4th of July, 2010.
Old     (dentard)      Join Date: Apr 2006       08-10-2006, 9:31 AM Reply   
Chip- we may have to worry if everyone has a head high wake. I was thinking of using a rotobeam as a warning signal. The wake has nearly sink several boats who've approached us to check out the scene. I love seeing the bottom of a boat as your wake passes by 'em.
Old     (chipconrad)      Join Date: Jun 2006       08-10-2006, 9:38 AM Reply   
lets see some pics
Old     (dentard)      Join Date: Apr 2006       08-10-2006, 12:39 PM Reply   
Mechanics say this month....TBC.....
Old    nbomar            08-10-2006, 1:02 PM Reply   
I just posted....we're going to try it behind my buddy's 45' Searay soon....just trying to figure out what we need to do to get it all dialed in...
Old     (dentard)      Join Date: Apr 2006       08-10-2006, 1:15 PM Reply   
Stay away from the prop! Let me know how well trim tabs work in shaping the wake.
Old     (hoookwake)      Join Date: Sep 2005       08-10-2006, 1:57 PM Reply   
Here is the deal with creating BIG WAKES, the reason why a HUGE CRUISE LINER does not create the same style wake as a Skiboat Balasted Down is because of the speed it is going relative to its size. Meaning the wake it gives off while traveling at say 20 knots is like the wakeboat wake trolling in a marina (not really making any wake at all relative to its size) If a certain wakeboat makes a 3 foot high wave for wakesurfing and you want to make a 6 foot high wave. You would need to be going 2 times the speed and the boat be sitting 2 times as deep.(basically) The Bigger the Wave the Faster the Wave. Sure you could invent some fancy dangled "standing wave" type apparatise you Tow in the water (pulling some fiberglass contraption) and have the water go over it. But you may cut your legs off too if you get caught under it. Another Idea for making a Boat with KICK BUTT size surfing wake is to creat a VERY DEEP Rear End on a boat, one where just the back end sits much deeper than the front end - slooping down towards the back forming a strange cross view. This would only then be good for wakesurfing as the top speed would be VERY SLOW and the Drag tremendous. But I think it is just a matter of time before some designs are created like this.
Old     (hoookwake)      Join Date: Sep 2005       08-10-2006, 2:16 PM Reply   
Ok, Im not trying to do a proper design and Im not much of an artist but here is what could work. The 2nd drawing would need a lot of tweaking with even possibly some fins to channel water in directions etc could help, the skys the limit but the basics stand. Upload
Old     (hoookwake)      Join Date: Sep 2005       08-10-2006, 2:26 PM Reply   
This Along with a BIG POWERFUL ENGINE and HUGE PROP to Force up TONS of Water may also be an asset.
Old     (dentard)      Join Date: Apr 2006       08-10-2006, 2:33 PM Reply   
I think it can be simpler. Also, unless that stern is made of lead, your bow needs to be much higher. A large foil (much bigger than the wedge) underneath might have the potential of pulling the boat down to eliminate the need for ballast, which would be ideal. I doubt you can adventure away from any previously existing designs, or, you may spend 200k on a boat which can only go 10knots. Boats have already been designed to carry large loads on semi-planning hulls- ie fishing boats. It's all about the retrofit.
Old     (jimgalloway)      Join Date: Aug 2005       08-10-2006, 2:55 PM Reply   
Rick & Curtis, I have good news regarding speed relative to size. According to my engineer, the speed necessary to produce a wake that is twice the height is (speed x (square root of 2)). Therefore, if you produce a wake of 3' at 10 MPH, you only need a speed of 10 x 1.4 or 14 MPH for a six footer. I discovered this formula while testing hulls in my test pool. I couldn't figure out why I had to pull my test hulls at 2.5 MPH even though they were 1/30 scale. I called my engineer and he straightenned me out!!!
Old    surfdad            08-10-2006, 4:10 PM Reply   
Jim, what? Take any boat that tosses a 3 foot wake and speed it up and the wake diminishes - it may get longer but not taller. What's missing?
Old     (jimgalloway)      Join Date: Aug 2005       08-10-2006, 4:48 PM Reply   
Hi Jeff - you also have to increase the weight by a factor of 8 and the power by a factor of ???. For example, lets say a wakeboat has a total weight and ballast is 5000lbs, and produces a wake that is 3'. What are the specifics to scale it up to 6'? Assuming that the wake you want is 2 times as tall, 2 times as long and 2 times as thick, this probably requires a boat that is (2 x 2 x 2) or 8 times the weight, twice the length, twice the depth, and twice the width. However, you do not drive twice as fast. You take the original speed that you drove to produce the 3' wake and multiply by the square root of 2. So if the original 3' wave required 10 knots, then the 6' wave requires 10 x (the square root of 2) or 10 x 1.4 = 14 knots!!! Therefore, Rick's premise that a large boat would have to go too fast, although logical, is not correct.

(Message edited by Jimgalloway on August 10, 2006)
Old    surfdad            08-10-2006, 4:54 PM Reply   
Got it. You know after getting a chance to see a properly adjusted switchblade behind the reverse rotating proped Enzo I think there is potential in developing bigger wakes using devices that reshape the prop wash and in some fashion build a larger table behind that. I'd much rather develop an overhaed with a 23-35 foot boat and that would seem more "doable" for the masses.
Old     (jimgalloway)      Join Date: Aug 2005       08-10-2006, 7:16 PM Reply   
Jeff, I have an elevated test pool that I built (yah Im kind of a nut). Its sort of a canal thats 5" deep, 15" wide and 12 feet long. Between tax returns I get my jollys by dragging hull-shaped objects down the middle. My experiments have taught me that length is important. To get a head-high wave, I dont think you can go shorter than 35 feet. I am interested to see what Curtis comes up with on his 36 footer. He is the real pioneer. I just have a crappy test pool.
Old    surfdad            08-10-2006, 7:31 PM Reply   
Cool, gotta love the expiermentation! :-)

This picture is of the wake from the Enzo at the World's last year. From the bottom of the trough to the top of the spine, it was close to 4 feet tall. I think that with devices that reshape the prop wash, you can get 6 feet or CLOSE to it in a boat in the 23-25 foot range.

Upload
Old     (jimgalloway)      Join Date: Aug 2005       08-10-2006, 8:28 PM Reply   
Jeff, I hope you're right, and I wish these wakeboat manufacturers would come up with our wakesurf specific boat, so I could just buy one and take my test pool to the dump. Thanks for the pic. The Enzo is still one of my top choices.
Old     (dennish)      Join Date: May 2005       08-10-2006, 9:07 PM Reply   
All of this sounds great, But wakes that large for the general public for daily use would I am sure lead to lawsuits and legal restrictions due to wake damage. A wake 3-4 feet and a usable riding area of 25 feet or so at 15 mph would be great IMO I think that 6 foot wakes on area lakes would be a disaster. Would be great for exhibitions and contests though to have overhead wakes.
Old     (jimgalloway)      Join Date: Aug 2005       08-10-2006, 9:37 PM Reply   
Dennis, I think you're right for the most part. But when the ocean gets calm, or on many of the larger inland waterways, I think anything goes. The ocean here in Ventura is pretty flat during July & August and may be wakesurfable with a larger boat. But Im not ready to bet 100K on it yet.
Old     (hoookwake)      Join Date: Sep 2005       08-10-2006, 9:45 PM Reply   
Ya perhaps Dennis, :-( However some lakes don't have restrictions and it would be ok, (the Bigger ones usually). Now this is a bit of a crazy idea, but what about pulling some strange fiberglass contraption behind a boat that creates something like this (see picture) Do you think it could be made long enough so that there would be no risk of being caught under it if falling. I just like dreaming living too far from an ocean.Upload
Old    surfdad            08-11-2006, 8:25 AM Reply   
Yeah, Dennis is right. We really should act responsibly when thinking of wake formation. I've been around folks that talk dispargingly about "wakesurfers" because of the rollers we toss and the horizontal table rollers that tend to irritate wakeboarders. I'm sure it's not much different than the way slalom folks used to speak negatively about wakeboarders in the beginning of that sport, but I would hope we as a wakesurfing community would do a better job of managing the potential property damage (waves upon shore) and the impact we have on other folks enjoying the water.

Perhaps 6 foot high wakes in ocean going boats ONLY is the way to think about this? Maybe self-enforced 3 foot or less wakes on inland waterways?
Old     (caskimmer)      Join Date: Apr 2006       08-11-2006, 8:33 AM Reply   
hey Brandon you guys should try experimenting with more ballast and lose the Wedge. IMO-after 3 years of surfing behind a Malibu I've concluded that while the Wedge might make for a better wakeboarding wake that it destroys the surfwake (at least the goofy side) by building a ledge halfway up the face. This effectively eliminates half the pocket and makes for a somewhat restrictive ride.


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The redline illistrates the artificially produced "lip" halfway down the face making the area above it (in green) dead water.
Old     (hoookwake)      Join Date: Sep 2005       08-11-2006, 9:25 AM Reply   
True if in a sensitive area where bigger waves could do damage to the shore than perhaps a massive 6 foot wake would be bad, but in a big lake where you are doing it far out from a beach, by the time these would get to the shore they would only be 6 inches. The kind of wake that wakesurfing makes is not like a Ocean 6 Footer (as seen below) because much of it is caused by the troof the boat displaces. Upload
Old    surfdad            08-11-2006, 11:39 AM Reply   
Certainly it would depend upon the size of the lake, but there is another aspect of this that concerns me. If we theoretically create a 6 foot high wake, what is the impact on other boaters and folks enjoying the lake? I would think it would take quite some time to dissipate. So, do we self-regulate and not produce a 6 foot high wake withing 1,000 yards of a 12 jon boat? How far from a folks rowing? Personally I think it's irresponsible of us if we don't consider these things BEFORE creating the problem.

I don't have answers, I'd just like us, the wakesurfing community, to be proactive. Maybe that's as simple as Dennis points out - 3 feet or less and bigger wakes are restricted to ocean going craft.
Old     (dentard)      Join Date: Apr 2006       08-11-2006, 11:41 AM Reply   
Tribal Indians placed docks in a location on the Columbia where I've been wakeboarding since high school. We were riding in that popular area at least 300 yards away. My chest high wake slammed their boats when it finally reached them, and to say the least, they were not happy. We installed locks on the fuel tanks as it's believed they put water in my tanks after that event. And my point: big wakes travel far and are powerful.
Old     (jimgalloway)      Join Date: Aug 2005       08-11-2006, 2:13 PM Reply   
Curtis, how crowded is the Columbia and how offen will you be able to wakesurf your 6 foot wake without infringing on other boaters? Do you go early in the AM? Weekdays? Or are there areas that tend to be uncrowded all the time? Or do you just keep your gas caps locked and go for the gusto?

(Message edited by Jimgalloway on August 11, 2006)
Old     (dentard)      Join Date: Apr 2006       08-11-2006, 5:08 PM Reply   
Jim- We have plenty of space when it's not windy. The wind dictates when we're on the boat. Best months are typically Aug/Sept (It's blowing 30+ right now though). My plan is to stay away from the indians. Otherwise, no complaints by anyone else b/c they're wishing to be invited! The boat's in the shop anyways..... We have commercial boats driving up and down all the time, so my wake shouldn't be a huge issue to many.
Old     (jimgalloway)      Join Date: Aug 2005       08-11-2006, 8:27 PM Reply   
Curtis, sounds like big wakesurf heaven in the northwest. Thanks for the info, look forward to the pics.

(Message edited by Jimgalloway on August 11, 2006)

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