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Old     (sylv2080)      Join Date: Jun 2004       12-21-2005, 9:17 AM Reply   
I haven't checked into this so don't everyone start yelling F-words @ me! ahhaahh The guy who owns our marina told me that he was told by the CWB rep and the Tige rep he deals through that the Coast Guard and some other org are trying to ban ballast in boats in the next upcoming years b/c of so many injuries and fatalities! I don't see how they can keep it THAT enforced b/c of how many people do it. But he mentioned that they said whenever they find people who are using the ballast they will make them drain it. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm everyone's input is welcome.........


oh and one more thing........he also made a good point against this.................. Until alot of us see all of the big name pros landing crazy stuff in a bone stock boat.........everyone is going to think THEY need the weight as well.....so who knows... Let the posting begin!
Old     (wake4fun)      Join Date: Oct 2005       12-21-2005, 9:28 AM Reply   
pros were landing stuff back when all they had was a ski boat with a pylon...then came the extended pylon and fat sacks. I think the way some people load the smaller boats can make them really difficult to drive but more of a concern to me is all the knee injuries that seem to have come along with loading beyond the ballast tanks in boats.
Old     (noti_dad)      Join Date: Jul 2003       12-21-2005, 9:28 AM Reply   
Never Happen.
Old     (peter_c)      Join Date: Sep 2001       12-21-2005, 9:29 AM Reply   
Better tell the oil tankers and cargo ships to start draining their ballast!
Old     (sylv2080)      Join Date: Jun 2004       12-21-2005, 9:33 AM Reply   
Oh I agree that I don't see it ever happening.........but this isn't the first time I've heard something like this coming about. But he even said that Tige along with another boat maker who I can't think of right now are going to try another possible hull redesign in the next 2 years to make it even better without ballast.. I mean to be honest I don't use much ballast......and if I do it's only about 500lbs. plus people in the boat. BUT I am not doing all the crazy tricks I wish I were doing either!!!!!


But I do agree that some people weigh boats down more then they should....and @ times it could make them alot harder to control.....Now I know most of the newer wakeboard boats can handle ALOT of weight... I am more so talking about older ski boats or I/O's!

Old     (loudontn)      Join Date: Feb 2005       12-21-2005, 9:39 AM Reply   
isn't Taps a ballast-free wake enhancer from Tige?

It seems to me that it's heresay, maybe even using scare tactics to get people to get on the Taps-bandwagon. I've never heard anything like that about ballast, I'd be interested in hearing actual claims that'd result in the banning of ballast.
Old     (sylv2080)      Join Date: Jun 2004       12-21-2005, 9:41 AM Reply   
yeah all of the Tige's have the TAPS system........but I mean it doesn't make a difference like weight does...Although it is a nice option! I know that Moomba has something similar now as well. But yeah I just don't see how they could enforce that without having about 10 patrol boats on every lake!!!!!!!!
Old     (tyboarder03)      Join Date: Nov 2003       12-21-2005, 9:46 AM Reply   
Well I seriously doubt it would ever happen, but if it did just get a bigger crew, bigger sterio system, or more gear to weigh it down... they arent gonna make you throw your subs and batteries overboard.
Old     (wakeguru)      Join Date: Feb 2003       12-21-2005, 9:46 AM Reply   
There is going to be more and more pressure on boat companies and the public regarding this issue. We need to be smart about how we operate when weighted. Use common sense people.

Brandon, what type of "injuries and fatalities" are they claiming as the direct result of ballast?
Old     (sylv2080)      Join Date: Jun 2004       12-21-2005, 9:49 AM Reply   
The main thing he was hearing from the 2 guys he spoke with were overweighted boats and the fact that people couldn't control them. Now I can attest to that a little bit and the most I've ever had in my boat was about 1500lbs. BUT I am sure that most of these issue's come from smaller boats not ever thought of to carry that much weight.........


But yes it is an issue and people do have to use common sense...but it just seems like when it comes to a sport like this where passion is the #1 thing that drives us........it will just be hard to crack down in something like this..........who knows........GOOD LUCK
Old     (wakeviolater)      Join Date: Sep 2004       12-21-2005, 9:58 AM Reply   
I have heard that in Cali the guard and other water enforcement agencies are going to be cracking down on excessivly weighted boats. You know that plate that has "max ocupants" and wieghts? Supposedly they are going to be enforcing that plate more starting this year. So.. your boat has a 1900 lb. weight limit, and you put 5 - 500 lb. fattys in it (not just the girls), you might be a target. BUT, this might all be hearsay! I guess it depends on the motivation of the cops on your local waterway...
Old     (jeff359)      Join Date: Jun 2005       12-21-2005, 10:00 AM Reply   
If they were to do it, manufactures would start making stock 5000 LBS 21 ft. vdrives. Sure they'd be gas hogs, but no ballast, same wake.
Old     (stephan)      Join Date: Nov 2002       12-21-2005, 10:08 AM Reply   
Seriously I've never heard of an injury coming from a boat that was too weighted. Why don't they ban offshore boats that got 90mph plus in rough water. I ride at Havasu & the Colorado River frequently and when you see a huge 40 ft boat roar past a jet ski going 85 on a packed river you wonder how these guys are allowed to do it.

If you guys have issues with loaded boats you need to get a 'Bu. They don't seem to mind the extra tonage. The problem is everyone wants a huge boat for party time, except smaller boats make a better wake easier, so when you buy a 23ft V-drive you are looking at a minimum of 2,000 pounds of ballast(or an equivalent) for a decent wake. Anyhow, just like they say you have to use CGA vests this is one rule I will definately not obey.
Old     (sylv2080)      Join Date: Jun 2004       12-21-2005, 10:21 AM Reply   
well I have not heard or seen injuries....but I have seen boats weighted down handling poorly and dangerously enough to where I stayed clear of them! Now obvisouly you have to then blame it on the driver and their lack of thinking..........but yes the jetskiers are totally out of control!!!! But ya gotta love how they keep making them faster and faster each year!!!!!


I know that my Tige has no issue holding weight and it handles fairly well......and most new wakeboats don't have issues. And as for the CGA lifejackets..........that is another one they will never really be able to crackdown on as well.........
Old     (chas)      Join Date: Feb 2002       12-21-2005, 10:26 AM Reply   
Well they are talking about how all the wakeboard boats and the big wakes are messing up the levee's. So it will be interesting to see where that goes.
Old     (boarditup)      Join Date: Jan 2004       12-21-2005, 10:33 AM Reply   
The BARD system does not track overloaded boats. The latested minutes from April does not mention it at all. There is no Notice of Proposed Rulemaking in the Federal Register. Sounds like wishful thinking from a maketing type.

FYI - I was a was an USCG officer in various Marine Safety Offices for nearly a decade. Lots of push on CO, lanynards, PWC, and PFD requiements. Ballast systems are not on the radar.
Old     (poser007)      Join Date: Nov 2004       12-21-2005, 10:45 AM Reply   
I rarely ever ran my Ballast in my Pro V and even when I did (700 lbs) I never ran more then the stock. A couple of the guys who could ride good still went really big on their tricks withought the boat beeing wrighted
Old     (boarditup)      Join Date: Jan 2004       12-21-2005, 11:25 AM Reply   
I contacted Washington. A few discussions, but no data has been received indicating any problem out there. This is a dead issue unless somebody dies from it.

Unless they start tracking data differently, there is no way to report through official channels the ballast situation. On a state level, it may be a different story....
Old     (wakeguru)      Join Date: Feb 2003       12-21-2005, 11:57 AM Reply   
Nice work Karl...thanks for the info.

Sounds like CODY sniffed that one out.
Old     (zuka666)      Join Date: Aug 2005       12-21-2005, 12:07 PM Reply   
Pro's landing tricks in "bone stock boat"
ahh hah hah hah hah hah hah hah haaaaaaa
Ever land a raley behind a footin boat(OuTBORD)?
Takes a lot of practice and guts!! Never mind a mobe or any other "expert" trick...My .02...
Old     (fox)      Join Date: Jul 2002       12-21-2005, 12:27 PM Reply   
I think local law enforcement will be the ones to crack down on ballast. Whether that is the local cop or the DNR may vary by the type of water you ride on. I can tell you that our private lake banned the use of wake enhancing devices for the coming season due to complaints of damage to seawalls. Like the latest movie...coming to a city near you!

Eric
Old     (kcsideways)      Join Date: Jun 2004       12-21-2005, 12:38 PM Reply   
There are definitely some private community lakes that have banned the use of "wake enhancing devices"...be proactive and be forewarned...don't buy into the notion it will never happen.
Old     (wakeguru)      Join Date: Feb 2003       12-21-2005, 12:48 PM Reply   
Damn, Eric and you just moved there.
Old     (boarditup)      Join Date: Jan 2004       12-21-2005, 12:56 PM Reply   
Move to www.placidwaters.com. I designed it for wakeboarding.
Old     (shavis)      Join Date: Aug 2005       12-21-2005, 12:59 PM Reply   
if this is true boat companies will jus thicken their fibre glas in areas to make the boat weigh more....it doesnt take much fibreglass to weigh alot..tige already does this....and whats to stop people from using lead or concealing ballast...are they gonna make people throw 1200 lbs of lead overboard???haha
Old     (boarditup)      Join Date: Jan 2004       12-21-2005, 1:17 PM Reply   
Ballast is used in many craft. The keel on a sailboat is ballast. Commercial craft often have steel or lead ballast for stability. Most commercial craft have ballast tanks built in so they can safely transit while unloaded or partially loaded. In the Great Lakes, we have invasive species problems due to ballast water from commerical ships.

Ballast is a design issue. The wake damage issue is also a design issue.
Old     (santa)      Join Date: Jun 2004       12-21-2005, 1:19 PM Reply   
Get more fat friends.
Old     (wakeviolater)      Join Date: Sep 2004       12-21-2005, 1:30 PM Reply   
I dont think the boat companies will make thier boats heavier, simply for the fact of tow weight. Your boat and trailer are heavy enough for your truck to tow safely.
Old     (timmy)      Join Date: Jul 2001       12-21-2005, 1:52 PM Reply   
Do wakeboat wakes erode the natural shoreline faster? Perhaps, if you have removed the natural marsh grass and other natural foliage around the lake.

Do wakeboat wakes have any effect on steel seawalls, concrete seawalls, or rip-rap shorelines? Unlikely at best.

Can wakeboat wakes swamp smaller vessels? Certainly

Can wakeboat wakes damage docks that are built too close to the water? Definately, however many lakes in FL have dock building codes that require dock height to be at a save level when the lake is high.

Are wakeboat wakes larger than waves from cruising vessels or natural waves from high winds? No.

We typically use ballast to compensate for less crew members. If we only have 4 riders we have to make up for the other 6 occupant's weight.

Also, on boats above a certain length, inclusive of most wakeboats, the weight limit plate is a guideline and is not law.
Old     (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       12-21-2005, 4:57 PM Reply   
How about facts instead of I heard some guy say

A 2004 California report:
http://dbw.ca.gov/BSRs/2004/04Safetymediakit.pdf
Nothing about ballast problems.

Ohio DNR safety statistics PWC incidents are down.
http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/watercraft/accstats/fatal05.htm

Boating Accident Resource
http://www.accidentautos.com/accident/boating-accident-statistics.html

I tried to find wakeboarding fatalities on the web and found none. Its not too hard to find PWC fatality reports. I think this ballast restriction issue is just noise.

Recent Central Ohio Boating Injuries and Fatalities that I recall:
1) Several years ago a jet skier on Alum Creek Reservoir ran in to their familys boat and died.
2) A relative of someone I know was struck by lightning on their boat, but I don't recall if that person died or not.
3) Last year on Buckeye lake some one drowned after having a drunken fight on board a boat.

I love the Darwin awards!!
Jet Ski Spree
2001 Darwin Award Nominee
Confirmed True by Darwin
(26 July 2001, Nevada) Sometimes fate has perfect vision. Two men found dead at Lake Tahoe were presumed to be homicide victims -- one disfigured by severe facial wounds and the other apparently shot -- until investigators discovered that they were actually victims of their own larcenous tendencies. The men had stolen a jet ski from a marina but, unfamiliar with the lay of the land and piloting in pitch darkness, they crashed at high speed into a nearby dock. One man died instantly from a broken neck; the other crawled to shore where he, too, expired.
Old     (mbrown)      Join Date: May 2005       12-21-2005, 6:11 PM Reply   
Wakeboats aren't eroding the levees in the delta the Mitten Crabs are. The delta is built for ships---big freggin ships. A wakeboat is not even in the same league. You'll know what I'm talking about if you have ever had to change course, pull your rider in, and haul a$$ to get out of the way. The amount of water that those ships move is at the very least impressive.

A co-worker I know is a USCG reserve out of Rio Vista his CO states "if we regulate how much ballast or live cargo you can have then we would have to regulate the amount of fish or crab that a vessel could take depending on the the number of fishermen that are on board. Those boats are consistently overloaded but meet the lifejacket/lifeboat laws, therefore allowed to operate."

Makes sense? I wouldn't want to pick a fight with the fishing boat lobby too.

(Message edited by mbrown on December 21, 2005)
Old     (mattyboyr6)      Join Date: Jul 2003       12-21-2005, 7:27 PM Reply   
On the topic of doing tricks without wieght, ever hear of air tricks? Like an air back roll, air 360 ect.? That is doing the trick without any wake at all. Doing it in the flats. Granted the most difficult tricks need bigger wakes, but more skill could compensate for lack of wake on the amature level.
Old     (malibuboarder75)      Join Date: Jan 2004       12-21-2005, 10:08 PM Reply   
sure people can do Air inverts and Air mobes, but you wont see people doing air 900s. But yes, almost any trick can be do behind a stock wake. With gas prices going up, I only ride with the wedge and a 375lb sack plus passengers (normally 2-4). With just that, my crew is throwing down mobes, almost every basic invert, off axis 5's, raleys, and anything is possible off the double up of any wake.

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