Sterio trouble Help Needed

I have added a second amp to my system to drive two 8" subs. Its a 400.2 and I have a 400.4 that used to power the 4 6x9's I now ran the 6x9's off the head deck and ran the tower speakers off of the 400.4 amp. The trouble is when I turn the system on about half way its shuts everything down. I know that there is no shorts in any wiring and I have the remotes both connected to thehead deck. I also checked the battery and its got 13.8 volts and it happens while running the boat too. I have been told that I may need a relay for the remotes on the amps. Has anyone heard of this before and if so do you know how to wire it and where to get one or what the trouble could be other than this? Thanks in advance.

I skipped the remote wire altogether. I just ran a wire to a switch over by the driver and then back to the amp. I actually used good grade speaker wire because it does not have to be a strong amp wire for the remote. I connected the wire to the main power, and to the remote terminal, then ran it to the switch. I can turn the amp on and off from the drivers seat, so it isn't blaring when you try to talk to a rider. This may or may not help you.

I just hooked the second amp's remote wire right onto the first amp's remote terminal that has wire going to the deck. It works fine for me.

sometimes head units will not pull enough amp to trigger the amps to come on. I always use a relay to turn on amps, cap, neons, ect. Sounds to me like a loss of power though, check voltage at the amp when it shuts off.

B

Thank for the help so far, I really do not want to add another switch at this point as I have the main power for the amps and the head deck on one switch now. As for checking the power at the amps Bill do you mean the remote power or the main power?

I guess I should learn how to spell too ;-) Stereo instead of sterio. Didn't catch that untill now getting slow in my old age. Please keep any other suggestions coming I really would like to resolve this before Saturday.

I would check power at the amp on the power input part of the amp. But I would keep it on there espcially when it cuts off so you know if you had a voltage drop or not. I would also check amps at the remote wire on the amp. There should be a min/max amp allowance. Are you able to turn up the head unit at all? If so are you really pulling some amps with how loud you have it?

B

Bill I can get it up volume wise about 1\2 way and then it shuts down everything the amps and the head unit. The weird thing is I originaly thought it was a battery issue and could be dieing but when I had the battery checked it was fine and then I charged it to verify it was full everything worked well when the boat was running or off. Then I got to the river and it worked for a while or maybe I just didn't have it up loud enough and then it started again. It did'nt start until I added the second amp. I am at the point where I am going to take it in to the shop to get checked out. I am so frustrated. I thought maybe the head deck was bad or something due to it seemed like the problem was coming from there but everything seems to have the correct voltage. Have you ever heard of anything like this or that the amps could be pulling to much power from the head deck and need a relay? I plan on screwing around with it tomorrow since its supposed to rain all day. I guess if I can't figure it out by then it goes to the shop next week. I'll put a vom to the remote wires on both amps and to the main power for both amps again. I have both amps powered directly from the battery and through a switch and had the meter on the battery as I turned it up but not specifically on the amps. I never tried to measure the remote wires but will do so as well. They currently are tiied together from both amps coming from the head deck. I may run a temp. wire to them as well and see if that resolves it. Any other ideas? Thanks again to all and sorry for the long post.

I have ran into similiar problems with systems shutting down. I have never ran a switch to turn on the head unit along with the amps but i doubt that would make much of a difference. Sounds like when you turn it up, the bass takes one or two good drops and then you lose everything. I still go back to low voltage. What size wire you have coming from your battery to your amps? You have a power capacitor in there anywhere? You have a main power junction block? How far from your battery to your amps? Most of the time, when your stuff shuts off like that, it is from a serious loss in voltage. Most amps from what i have seen will run until voltage gets below 10.5 volts. Anything below that, it will cut out. With 8" subs, I don't know how much power they will require but your amps still are pushing them. You said you still had the problem when your boat is running...does your tachometer jump around when the bass hits? How many amps is your alternator putting to the battery?

Bill

Bill,
I am running #6 wire to the amps directly from the battery ground and positive side. I only have one battery now and am going to add another shortly but as for how many amps from the alternator not sure how to measure that I have a A/C only clamp on ampmeter I don't think it will work with D/C. As for a terminal block for power I used one side of the main switch so everything gets shut down so there is no draw on the battery when sitting. The amps are mounted under the drivers area and the battery is in the back of the boat so I would say roughly 12' of wire give or take. as for the tach its pretty consistant not much as for juming around. Not sure if I said this before or not but when it shuts down it will take one to two seconds and fire right back up and repeat this process unless I turn it down. Also, no power capacitor.

just for clarification, you have a power wire from your battery, to a switch, then to your amps? If so, that is probably your problem or part of it. You need to run your power DIRECTLY from your battery to your amps. You can run your remote wire only to that switch. If you shut off the amps and head unit with a switch, there will be no draw at all as long as it is off. Do you have a battery load tester? Napa item for like $20 bucks i think. If so, start the boat, put the load tester on the battery and it will give you an volt/amp reading going INTO the battery.

Bill

(Message edited by hlboatsnboards on May 02, 2003)

I was just outside thinking about this and realized that I didn't explain WHY going to the switch before the amp with your power wire will not work. Basically, you have to run a large power cable from your battery to your amp for maximum power. When you run that large wire into a switch, all that power has to be restricted b/c the switch does not have the same size wire. Anytime you restrict down in size, it stays way. Kinda like a water hose, if you start with a huge hose, and restrict it down then go back up in size, you are still only able to fit so much water into that small hose, no matter how much you are trying to fit into it. Ok, I know i probably just butchered all that up but hope it helps.

Bill

Bill, I understand I think I will remove the amps from the switch and go straight to the battery. Do I need to hook up the remotes to the switch or leave them going to the head deck does it matter? I want the switch to act like an acc. position on the ignition of a car. Thanks, again

Definately run the power directly to the amp, no switch. But if you can, I would just run the remote wire off the amps into the power ant. wire of the head unit. Unless your head unit has a specific wire for amps. I think Sony's have this option. If you want, you can run the remote wires to a switch that way you can kill the amps and still leave the head unit on. Or, you can run all your remote wires, head unit included, into a switch which will kill all the power to everything going to the switch.

Bill

Yes its a Sony 650 I think it has a remote wire from the head deck and it goes to the amps directly bypassing the switch. I have the main stereo power and amp power through the switch. I'll try removing the amps from the switch first thing and see if that corrects it.
Thanks again

Sounds to me like you guys are definitly on
the right track.
Where is the battery located? How far from
the amps? You may consider dropping to larger
power and ground wire if you are traversing
the boat. Have you considered adding a second
battery? A gel-cell would be best for a stereo battery. I also hook my bilge pump directly to the stereo batt.

Sounds to me like you guys are definitly on
the right track.
Where is the battery located? How far from
the amps? You may consider dropping to larger
power and ground wire if you are traversing
the boat. Have you considered adding a second
battery? A gel-cell would be best for a stereo battery. I also hook my bilge pump directly to the stereo batt.

oops

Sandy, The amps are around 12' from the battery using #6 wire. I want to add another battery and it will be an optima blue top but am trying to see if I can fit it. I will need to make some mod.s to get it to fit and then it will block my trim pump and resovoir, so thats the hold up on that. Thanks I'll let you guys know what happens Monday unless there is anything else to check.

So everything was working fine before adding the second amp&subs, right? What were the tower speakers running off of? Were they also driven by the same amp as the 6x9's?

Since the addition, you connected the 6x9's to the HU, and the towers to the 400.4. Does your system work with only the 6x9's (no amps con nected)? Does it work with the amps (no 6x9's connected)? Are there not some HU's out there that will only allow you to utilize either the hi-level outputs or lo-level outputs, but not both?

My guess, based on the fact that the entire system shuts down, leads me to the HU - it basically cannot handle the entire load internally. Bill's right on by having you run power directly to the amps. Going through a switch would degrade the switch, because of the heat generated by all the current, but I could only see the amps cutting out in this case. I would connect the remote wires to the switch if all I needed to do was control the power to the amps, otherwise connect directly to the remote wire off the HU - everyone turns on when you turn on the HU.

Just my thoughts...
Ral

Ral yes everything worked fine until I added the second amp and subs. Since then I had the tower speakers run off the head unit and the (4) 6x9's off the 400.4 amp. Since then I have moved the (4) 6x9's to the head deck and ran the tower speakers off the 400.4 amp. I just talked to aother employee who gave me a cap to wire the amps through its a 25VDC 110000uf-10 capacitor. He said the same as Bill remove the main power for the amps from the switch and run through the capacitor if it still happens run the remotes to a different 12 volt power supply and see if that corrects it ohh and remove the remote from the head to the amps.

Not sure if the system works without the amps I think I removed the RCA's and it was fine can't quite remember due to trying several differnt things.

And as for the remote they connect to the head deck now and if it still happens I'll try to move it and isolate it.

P.S. The reason I hooked up the main amp power through the switch is I was told that they still draw current enough to drain the battery over time.
They also told me I should add another battery and an isolator switch to seperate the load on both batteries but they both will charge at the same time. Sorry to keep opening a can of worms but does this sound right? Also where can I get an isolator switch and how much are they normally?

Did you run a second #6 power and ground to the 2nd amp or are you using one pair for both. If using same for both it is too samll of a line for that distance. I'd run #2 for both ground and power to the area where the amps are mounted. Then use a distribution block to run wires each amp.

$.02 -chris

Each amp has its own #6 going to each terminal.

With the 2nd battery the isolator is needed. You should really think of up sizing that wire to at least 2ga if not bigger.Make sure you fuse those runs also or you might have a bonfire when your not expecting it. After screwing with my system for the better part of 2 months now I'm finding it easier to keep the stereo system seperate from everything else in the boat. After all you want it to be bullet proof, paddling back to the ramp sucks!

1 400 watt amp will require 4 ga. and both amps would require 2 ga. for a 12' run. or two 4 ga. wires. For sure no switch in power supply, only switch the turn on power with the same switch that turns on the stereo.

Oh ya, and Chris is on track with his advise. you would also want your power distribution block to be fused.

Thanks guys I'll most likely change the wire and add new fusing there as well. I currently have some type of in-line fuse at the battery. But I want to resolve the trouble first.