K&N filter on a Black Scorpion?

Does anyone run a K&N filter on there Black Scorpion engine? I run K&N on all my stuff and was wondering if anyone runs one on there boat.

Steve, because boats are basically run in a dirt free environment, they don't use air filters, only a flame arrestor.

Makes Sense. The reason I asked is I saw an add in the new Wake Boarding magazine for Indmars new ETX/CAT (Extreme Tuned Exhaust with Catalyst)which will be on the 07 engines and it shows a K&N on the engine.Maybe this is something new with Indmar. The flame arrestor looks a little restricted and I thought a filter would flow better. Maybe Indmar thinks so to? Anyone else seen this?

I think they all have to have a Catalytic Converter in 07. As far as an air filter, it may have something to do with EPA? I would still think that the flame arrestor would flow better than any media type air filter, but I could be wrong. K&N's flow real well.

Our '04 X-star with the 8.1 had a K&N as does our '07 (8.1 as well). Matt

Must be a manufacturer choice thing then cuz I have not run across any Mercs that had air filters.

When I had a Merc on my I/O it had the non-filtering flame arrestor. The Indmar I have now has the K & N. Neither will restrict flow but the K & N will filter the air. Of course most lakes have clean air so get one if it's dusty where you boat. Performance will not change either way.

A better question is if the K&N air filter is an approved flame arrester.

Just keep in mind that if your boat goes up in flames and the insurance inspector finds a bunch of non-marine stuff on the engine you might have a problem.

My MCX motor in my MC has a K&N on it from the factory. It works fine. I'm not much of a fan of K&N's, so I probably would add one aftermarket. I just dont think they really add to any performance and IMO they don't filter better, though with a boat that isn't that big of an issue.

Not that it's an issue in most boating environments, but it's pretty widely accepted that K&N's don't filter well. You're way better off with an oiled foam type filter if you need something that flows better than stock.

Right there for Indmar and Mercury http://www.knfilters.com/marine/boats.htm and so on. As for massive performance gains in this application possibly not, but I disagree trace when 8 of 10 riders love the K&N/Powercommander combo on their sportbikes. I love it on my Zx-12R as long as you keep it clean and oiled.

The deal with the K&N is that it'll flow better than a dirty stock filter. A new stock filter versus a K&N will net you the same performance. It's not till the stock filter gets dirty that the K&N makes a difference. Even then, the reason it makes a difference is that it doesn't filter as well. If you disagree, then take a K&N out in the sun, hold it up and look how large the spaces are in the element. They definitely let a lot of junk pass through on the micro-level. The kind of stuff that eventually scores cylinder walls.

As far as the power commander combo, I'd count on the power commander for the majority of the gain, not the filter.

Besides a K&N in most Mass Air Flow applications will lead to faulty fuel trims and false lean conditions as their life progresses. The oils from the filter eventually coat a MAS and cause all types of problems including service engine lights and premature MAS failure. K&N's are the way to go for carbureted motors, but I'd stay away with later injected motors.

Talk to a mechanic that works on duramax, powerstroke or cummins diesels. A lot of people that switch to K&N's tend to have issues with particles marring the turbos. I stick to just replacing my stock filter on a regular basis. Boat came with a K&N but I don't have a dust issue on the boat.

Evan is right...

Rod, K&N makes a marine specific filter w/ the appropriate flame resistor.

Thanks for writing all that out, Evan. I'd forgotten about the filter oil/MAF issue too.

Wasn't really concerned about filtration as much as better flow. More air = more power.I have always ben a fan of k&n filters.I have seen some test on flow values and even tried the flow box at the local kragens.The numbers don't lie.It looks like some engine builders like Indmar see a performance advantage as well.Guess I will call Merc and ask them there thoughts about adding one to my scorpion. Everyone seems to have an opinion on filtration weather it's oil or air.Makes for good talk, and yes Im a Fram guy to.

Boats don't have MAFs yet, so that would eliminate that concern.

Still, I really don't think you'd notice an appreciable gain from switching from the open spark arrestor. Even if you did get some gains, they'd be restricted to the upper RPM range - not where you need it.

Put that $75 or whatever towards a new prop if you're looking for a really noticeable improvement.

06 bu vlx came w/ k&n filter .... also have on my 99 f150 ( which passes ca smog test )

Evan, if you can see more sunlight through the K&N than the new stock type, then how is it you claim they will flow the same? Contradictory statement in my mechanical mind, but I'm curious to hear your explanation.

For those that think the air on the lake is cleaner,here is a piece off of the K&N website.
Purifies Even Marine Air-
No dirt, no dust right? No way! One of boating’s most common misconceptions is that marine air is clean air, so air filters are unnecessary. The truth is that marine engines need filtration protection every bit as much as their landlubber cousins. Once airborne, impurities affect air quality both near and off-shore – especially in fresh water environments. And most boats carry their own generous supply of stow-away dust and dirt tracked aboard on clothing, gear and muddy shoes. It’s completely unaffected by moisture, because of the unique oiled cotton gauze and epoxy-coated wire screen construction. So it’s the perfect choice for every marine engine application – from ski boats to fishing boats to racers to day cruisers.

ive always believed that k&n's were the bomb.. since ive got a diesel truck and done some research on the web ive decided to change the stock filter more often.. there are quite a few people who have had issuse with them letting particles into there engine, having talked to several mechanics it all makes sense to me now.. on a car thats not driven on a daily basis or your trying to get as much hp as possible i would run one but otherwise ive decided to stay away from them...

My Dakota has 240K on it with a K&N and it's got the same compression as when I got it. LOL. Matt that's kool that the marine K&N is also a flame arrestor...Knowing that, I'm going to get one for the boat for the extra protection just to be on the safe side. Flow would prolly be about the same, but I can see a regular flame arrestor letting more particles by than the K&N by far.

For those that ride the Delta routinely, then you have seen the dust storms that can obliterate the sun. Any kind of air filter is better than nothing. For those that have not been to the Delta it is mostly surrounded by fields, and is generally a windy area. Need I say more? I always find the spark arrestor dirty and in need of a cleaning.

Now I think what Evan was trying to say, and has been proven, is that most OEM air filters of decent quality will flow more air than the motor requires. So the K$N does nothing for it. The cold air intakes open up the restriction which is generally the baffles in the intake and the design of them to keep the engine quit. Opening the intake up with a stock air filter will almost always increase power output.

Once even slightly dirty a K$N will plug very fast. "The other filters, most notably the oiled reusable types, had an exponential loading response before reaching maximum restriction. These filters had a lower initial restriction, but they became exponentially more restrictive under a constant flow of dirt.

This runs counter to the "myth" that oiled media filters actually "work better" as they get dirtier."

"In the chart above it’s important to note the different test durations for each filter. The AC Delco filter test ran for 60 minutes before exceeding the restriction limit while the AMSOIL and K&N tests each ran for 20 and 24 minutes respectively before reaching max restriction.

In 60 minutes the AC Filter accumulated 574gms of dirt and passed only 0.4gms. After only 24 minutes the K&N had accumulated 221gms of dirt but passed 7.0gms."

YOU CAN NOT ARGUE WITH AN ISO TEST! It is scientfic and fact.

Bummer the original charts are gone as is the original website, but it is still a good read.
ISO Test of air filters

I will never run a K$N on an offroad vehicle. I replace my air filter every time we run a trail in the dusty summer. The dust loading on the filter media is incredible. Funny those with K$N's do not notice that problem?

As always I like to back up my arguements with facts and data, not hear say.
http://www.geocities.com/dtmcbride/products/air_filter.html
http://vettenet.org/knfilter.html
http://bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest1.htm
http://bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest2.htm
http://bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest3.htm

Edit: Richard, and those with diesels take a look at these filters. They are the best you can get.
http://www.uniquemetalproducts.com/

(Message edited by Peter_C on September 21, 2006)

Thanks for the solid info Peter!

""In 60 minutes the AC Filter accumulated 574gms of dirt and passed only 0.4gms. After only 24 minutes the K&N had accumulated 221gms of dirt but passed 7.0gms."" ....thats kinda scary..


(Message edited by mendo247 on September 21, 2006)

Especially since it was plugged with only 221gms of dirt on it! Yet the factory air filter held 574gms and lasted for over twice the length of time, of the K$N, before plugging.

What K$N has is some of the best marketing.

Of course if I owned a muscle car or sports car that was a toy, a K&N filter just might have a home. A boat would be a proper place too, as long as it was a marine version.

"I love it on my Zx-12R as long as you keep it clean and oiled."... And that is what it boils down to. A well maintained K&N is better that a stock filter for performance. If you're the type that would rather do something else than maintaing a vehicle yourself, the stock, "stick it in and forget about it" filter is the way to go. Myself, I'll take the gains in power and fuel economy that I have seen for MYSELF in exchange for a little more time spent maintaining.