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Old     (santa)      Join Date: Jun 2004       09-29-2015, 7:04 PM Reply   
Hey, I need some suggestions for a tow vehicle. Seems like my 4Runner won't make the cut @ 5,000lb capacity for pulling the new G23. I was due to change my vehicle next year anyways and my needs are:

- Towing the G23 and the ski boat in and out of storage and to/from our lake (about 30 miles each way) 2x per year
- Towing the boats for the occasional service at the dealer (about 15 miles each way)
- The occasional road trip to another lake, say about 150 miles each way, maybe 1x per summer.
- Hauling stuff around the cottage on week-ends and during the summer months
- Pulling guests' cars out of the snow when they get stuck in my driveway (seriously!)
- I work a "dowtown" job, so no need for a big vehicle most weekdays. I will occasionally travel for work, about a 400 mile drive during a day about once per month.
- I need a very "presentable" vehicle, as I visit clients and I work for a large financial institution.
- My youngest child gets her driver's licence next year, so no more hauling around them and their friends.

So here are the scenarios:

1- Get a new, bigger SUV with a higher towing capacity. Not my preference, as I said, most of the time that would be a waste of space and fuel. Plus it's hard enough parking a 4Runner downtown, so imagine something big like an Escalade. Maybe, just maybe, the VW Toureg might be interesting since it shows a 7,700lb capacity. But I think that it would be borderline.

2- My preference - get a "normal" AWD car (like a 1 or 2 y.o. 328i X-Drive), PLUS buy a used 4x4 pick-up. I'm thinking something like a 2008-to 2012 F150 or Ram 1500. But pick-ups are a whole new world for me. I'm hoping not to pay more than 20K CAN, and I want something that's going to be reliable because I have no patience for bringing a truck in for repairs every so often. Oh and the truck would live at the cottage of course.

Anyone care to give me some suggestions and share their experience? Thanks, mucho appreciated!

Last edited by santa; 09-29-2015 at 7:09 PM.
Old     (MCObray)      Join Date: Mar 2013       09-29-2015, 7:55 PM Reply   
If you are thinking G23, I would go with a minimum of 3/4 Ton Truck or SUV. Diesel, preferably. That's a heavy boat dry... put some gas, gear, misc. items in and now it's an every heavier boat!
Old     (kenv)      Join Date: May 2002       09-29-2015, 9:08 PM Reply   
Come on Santa...is this a legit question???? lol. You have already convinced yourself what you need by listing the criteria above. I see the only viable option per the above specs is option 2....get a car like you described.....and a used 3/4 Ton Crew Cab Short bed 4x4 of any model....just make sure it's diesel. I did the same in 2013 when I got a Ford Focus to go along with my 2011 Ford Superduty G-Puller. One vehicle can't do both....but two can do one good !!!! Not sure a Focus meets your criteria of Presentable.....but 32 miles to the gallon average... 36 hwy......screams presentable to me....lol
Old     (santa)      Join Date: Jun 2004       09-30-2015, 5:15 AM Reply   
Agree it was a loaded question! That said I'm a total noob when it comes to pick-ups, so it's a little daunting. Wouldn't a ton be a bit of an overkill? Also, browsing at the local ads, in this category most have very high mileage and seem to have been used for commercial applications.

Wouldn't a ton do the job? I thought most of them go to 10,000lb, but perhaps II need to do more research.
Old     (ironj32)      Join Date: Jan 2007       09-30-2015, 6:10 AM Reply   
If it were me, I'd just get a nice 1/2 or 3/4 ton truck. I work downtown Minneapolis and have no problem parking my 3/4 ton Duramax. Right now with all of the stadium and new high rise construction, there are big trucks every where down here. You just have to pay attention a little more. In my opinion, half tons are more nimble, to some degree, so parking those would be even easier.

As for towing a G23 with a 1/2 ton - they certainly will pull them. Depending on the configuration of them (engine and tranny), I think most of the 2008-2012 models will be in the 7-8k towing capacity range. The weight of a gassed up G23, trailer and gear is about 8300-9k pounds. I know the newer GM's have started to creep into the 10-11k towing capacity range in the last two or three years. I pulled my first G with a 2011 Chevy 1/2 ton, with a 6.2L and MaxTow package, and it did just fine getting to speed (shifted like a mofo, but that's because I have a heavy foot). Where you will "feel" a big difference is in the stopping department - the 3/4 tons just feel much more safe and in control when towing 9k pounds down the interstate at 75 mph. You don't feel like it's pushing you down the road in the 3/4 ton.

Good luck.
Old     (kenv)      Join Date: May 2002       09-30-2015, 6:15 AM Reply   
Technically....per specs....a half ton will be overloaded just by using the stock receiver hitch to pull a G23. It will do "the job"....depending on what the job is...but most would say 3/4 ton or bigger for sure. If you want a good read, go over to Planet Nautique and read the stickie that Jeff has put on his site that is Titled...."Serious Thoughts on Towing G-Series boats" lots of great info in that post. Good luck on the search and be safe. Ken
Old     (Fixable)      Join Date: Oct 2012       09-30-2015, 7:22 AM Reply   
Ya..... G23 is way over towing capacity of a Toureg.

I tow my G23 with a Ford Raptor. I thank my lucky stars that I only have to tow the boat twice a year, and only for a couple miles. If I had to tow any further, I would have a 3/4 ton.
Old     (beg4wake)      Join Date: Aug 2012       09-30-2015, 7:51 AM Reply   
Take it from me....I've towed many boats as well as trailers of all varieties (and yes I have a class A CDL). Your best bet, IMO, is to buy a car and a separate truck to tow with. I HIGHLY recommend a 3/4 ton diesel. Will a 1500 tow the G? Yes, but it is at or near max capacity in doing so. If you do get a 1500, do yourself and everybody around you a favor and get a weight distribution hitch. It will alleviate tongue weight allowing the truck to sit more level, allowing the truck to maintain adequate/equal pressure on all tires and maintain steering and braking capabilities. Take it from me...IF YOU EVER GET CAUGHT TOWING IN A HIGH RAIN SITUATION WHERE STANDING WATER IS ON THE ROAD, YOU WILL BE GLAD TO HAVE EQUAL WEIGHT DISTRIBUTION!!!!! Also, if you have any decent up hill grades to pull the boat up, then the 1500 will struggle and it will be hard on the motor. I had a Ram 1500 Hemi and was just towing a 2008 XStar and it had to pull high RPMs when accelerating on an uphill grade. Get a diesel and you shouldn't have to look back. You can get a newer model single cab short bed (work model) 3/4 ton diesel for a reasonable price. Plus, the diesel motor can handle WAY more miles than a gas engine so don't let the higher milage scare you. Most diesels are just getting broken in at 60-100k miles! Also remember, your "max towing capacity" is solely based off of the weakest link in your set up. While a vehicle may state that it is rated up to 11,000lbs or what not, most often the rear mounted receiver is only rated for 5,000lbs or so. Likewise, the ball you use may only be rated for 5k lbs. My Ram 1500 stated a towing capacity of 9500lbs, but when further reading into the manual, being a quad cab with 6'6 bed and towing package, it was only rated for 5000lbs from the built in receiver. My new Ram Cummins is rated for 17,500, but only 9,000 at the receiver and that's using a 2.5' hitch only. I have also beefed up my rear suspension and added air bags in the rear to help when that much tongue weight is added from the new G23! And here are a few pics of the hitch set up I bought just to handle the G23. This set up (2.5" receiver, 2" ball shaft, all monocast aluminum) is good for up to 12,000lbs.

Adjustable from 0" - 10" drop (my Cummins is lifted 6" on 37" tires)


2 5/16" Ball, 2" shaft




Built in tongue weight scale
Old     (sppeders)      Join Date: Jul 2011       09-30-2015, 9:11 AM Reply   
I echo the above.

My wife/I have always driven commuter cars and and a bigger rig strictly for hauling/towing. We just sold our F350. When i sold it the guy buying it just needed a bigger rig for maybe 5% utility of the vehicle for hauling boats/plowing. Didn't necessarily justify clunking that monster around on a daily.

my $.02
Old     (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       09-30-2015, 9:26 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by beg4wake View Post
Take it from me....I've towed many boats as well as trailers of all varieties (and yes I have a class A CDL). Your best bet, IMO, is to buy a car and a separate truck to tow with. I HIGHLY recommend a 3/4 ton diesel. Will a 1500 tow the G? Yes, but it is at or near max capacity in doing so. If you do get a 1500, do yourself and everybody around you a favor and get a weight distribution hitch. It will alleviate tongue weight allowing the truck to sit more level, allowing the truck to maintain adequate/equal pressure on all tires and maintain steering and braking capabilities. Take it from me...IF YOU EVER GET CAUGHT TOWING IN A HIGH RAIN SITUATION WHERE STANDING WATER IS ON THE ROAD, YOU WILL BE GLAD TO HAVE EQUAL WEIGHT DISTRIBUTION!!!!! Also, if you have any decent up hill grades to pull the boat up, then the 1500 will struggle and it will be hard on the motor. I had a Ram 1500 Hemi and was just towing a 2008 XStar and it had to pull high RPMs when accelerating on an uphill grade. Get a diesel and you shouldn't have to look back. You can get a newer model single cab short bed (work model) 3/4 ton diesel for a reasonable price. Plus, the diesel motor can handle WAY more miles than a gas engine so don't let the higher milage scare you. Most diesels are just getting broken in at 60-100k miles! Also remember, your "max towing capacity" is solely based off of the weakest link in your set up. While a vehicle may state that it is rated up to 11,000lbs or what not, most often the rear mounted receiver is only rated for 5,000lbs or so. Likewise, the ball you use may only be rated for 5k lbs. My Ram 1500 stated a towing capacity of 9500lbs, but when further reading into the manual, being a quad cab with 6'6 bed and towing package, it was only rated for 5000lbs from the built in receiver. My new Ram Cummins is rated for 17,500, but only 9,000 at the receiver and that's using a 2.5' hitch only. I have also beefed up my rear suspension and added air bags in the rear to help when that much tongue weight is added from the new G23! And here are a few pics of the hitch set up I bought just to handle the G23. This set up (2.5" receiver, 2" ball shaft, all monocast aluminum) is good for up to 12,000lbs.

Adjustable from 0" - 10" drop (my Cummins is lifted 6" on 37" tires)


2 5/16" Ball, 2" shaft




Built in tongue weight scale

Slight highjack, but you seem knowledgeable, and I think it's good discussion based on what the OP may be looking at a 1/2ton or 3/4ton for towing duty - and it's the total package of engine, trans, rear end, truck that determines capacities, not just the model truck...

So my question:

I've got a 2013 F-150 with the 5.0L V-8 and 3.55 gearing. What about my truck (when properly equipped with a WDH), would lessen it's capacity according to Ford when compared to the same truck with the Ecoboost. Yes, I understand the ecoboost has greater PULLING power/torque, but I'm fairly confident brakes, chassis, curb weights are all similar, so why the 1,900 lb capacity difference between Eco/5.0L with the 3.55 rear end, and only 300lb difference when comparing a 5.0/3.73 rear end (9400) to ecoboost/3.73 (9700).

It seems the rear end isn't the limiting factor, nor the engine. Maybe it's torque curves/transmission shifting that would overload the V-8 with certain rear end gearing? Realistically, I won't be towing greater than 5,000lbs, but I found Ford's towing guide curious.
Old     (King12)      Join Date: Jul 2012       09-30-2015, 9:33 AM Reply   
Surprised the raptor does as well as you describe with that long travel suspension.. Anyway. That's a big boat. I'd say a daily driver car and a used 3/4 ton would fit you perfectly. These are very different jobs you're asking of one truck. Get 2 vehicles that excel at each instead of one that is mediocre at both. A 2012 Prius and a 2003 or so 3/4 ton should be doable for under 30k and you have safety, reliability, power, and fuel efficiency.
Old     (bcrider)      Join Date: Apr 2006       09-30-2015, 10:19 AM Reply   
For the limited amount of towing you do a newer 1/2 ton would be fine IMHO. My 14 F150 EB is rated for 12,000lbs with the max tow package. My buddy pulls his tractor on a car trailer and it's all of 9,000lbs with his 14 EB as well. Sure, he's not the fastest off the line and breaking is a bit tougher but if you aren't towing all that often then a diesel is overkill the rest of the time. You could take the difference in cost between a 1/2 ton and a diesel and put a big break kit in your 1/2 ton truck. If you live in a relatively flat area then a diesel is even less of an issue. I live in BC which has just a few mountains to say the least and my truck has been more than enough to pull my boat. I can pull my boat up a 8-6% grade at 60mph and it does it with ease and I'm loaded down with coolers and everything else that comes with having two kids.

People with diesels will argue it tooth and nail but the reality is once you get to maintenance mode on a diesel it will cost you a hell of a lot more than a gasser. My neighbor is a diesel mechanic for BD Diesel and tells people all the time. If you don't really need it then don't do it.
Old     (MCObray)      Join Date: Mar 2013       09-30-2015, 10:40 AM Reply   
Here's a good read from Planet Nautique:
http://www.planetnautique.com/vb5/fo...ries-nautiques
Old     (King12)      Join Date: Jul 2012       09-30-2015, 11:19 AM Reply   
I was under the impression max tow when properly equipped required weight distribution hitch. Which I also was told where strictly NOT for use with boat trailers.
And yes, I've been way over my tow limit on a half ton before, and it held 60 but it wasn't relaxing, and I wouldn't do it around other cars only early Sunday mornings.



Lots of things can be done. I think 2 vehicles is the best option for your situation. The 3/4 could be a gasser. 496 or v10, doesn't have to be diesel.

Last edited by King12; 09-30-2015 at 11:24 AM.
Old     (That_Guy)      Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Central Ohio       09-30-2015, 11:25 AM Reply   
I tow a 2015 Axis T22 with my 2014 F-150, it has plenty of power in my opinion, but the suspension leaves much to be desired, (way too soft), and the brakes are again OK, but nothing to write home about. I installed airbags on the rear suspension not because it sagged or anything, just because it was bouncing constantly going down the road. No way I'd consider towing a G23 with my truck, no way. Go big or go home, kinda like the boat.
Old     (bass10after)      Join Date: Feb 2010       09-30-2015, 11:31 AM Reply   
my buddy has an 09 1500 chevy with 5.3 and he wants to get rid of it for towing his axis t23. It is lifted and has 20x12 wheels though. I have a duramax, and that would be ideal for towing just about anything because the transmission is more solid in the long run than the 1500. For as little as you tow id try to find a 1500 with the 6.2 liter from gmc, lots of the denali trim levels have that engine, but not all. I'm a gm guy so those are my recommendations. As far as maintenance being more expensive I've owned my duramax for 2 years and maintenance has been less than the escalade it replaced. Oil changes and thats it. Thermostat went bad so i replaced it myself(maybe $80 part) and the water in fuel sensor is made of plastic and those are prone to crack, $50 also replaced myself. If something goes wrong will it be costly? yep. If something goes wrong in any vehicle its costly.
Old     (kenv)      Join Date: May 2002       09-30-2015, 11:44 AM Reply   
Yeah....3/4 ton doesn't have to be a gasser.....but will people question the twin smoke stacks in his bed if it's a gas truck.......lol
MCOBray.....I mentioned that link to him in my second post.....thanks for including the link. Good stuff in there.

Last edited by kenv; 09-30-2015 at 11:48 AM.
Old     (Gotmods)      Join Date: Nov 2012       09-30-2015, 12:24 PM Reply   
In your situation a luxury half ton would meet all of your needs very well. The fact that you don't tow a big trailer and only tow your boat occasionally don't make the diesel a necessity.
If I was in your situation I would buy a new F150 Lariat Fx4 super crew ecoboost short bed. I would order it with tow mirrors and max tow package. Right now they have 0% financing and huge rebates. Plus you can avoid holding costs by orderong one. They are loaded with built in tow and traction controls that work very well. Also they have features like HID and led lighting, sunroof that goes from the front to back of the cab, push button start, remote tailgate, ect., etc.
Only thing it would need is a nice air bag setup so you don't sag when towing. I'm not saying it's a Super Duty tow wise but they tow very well. You would be happy.
Old     (theloungelife)      Join Date: Jun 2012       09-30-2015, 1:00 PM Reply   
Wanted to give 1 review for the VW Touareg. I have a 06' V8 Touareg that I tow a 03' Wakesetter VLX (3000lbs without trailer). Tows amazing. I live in Utah and am towing up and down passes with no problem. That said, a G23 weighs much much more (5400lbs dry weight). For larger boats, I've towed my friends 07' Malibu LSV. I still felt like power, braking were adequate, but I don't think I would push it beyond that. Looking at dry weight, his LSV is 3900lbs vs 5400lbs for the G23. As much as I love my Touareg, I think the 2 car suggestions are the way to go on here for your boat.
Old     (Jn94defender)      Join Date: Mar 2013       09-30-2015, 3:07 PM Reply   
Get a range rover or range rover sport - they fit your criteria and only take up one parking spot. I tow my almost 5k tige with an 06. It is great - except on gas mileage.
Old     (migs)      Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: SF Bay Area       09-30-2015, 3:42 PM Reply   
^^maybe he doesnt feel like having 5-6K in yearly repair bills, a busted tail light & an oil slick in his driveway.

Im just kidding
Old     (santa)      Join Date: Jun 2004       09-30-2015, 4:01 PM Reply   
Hey thanks for the overwhelming number of responses. I had read that post on PN , but it was going in all directions and I quickly got lost in it.

Interesting suggestion with the RR, but it's a little "over the top" for showing up at business appointments, Also it seems to pull a max of 7,700lb which won't be enough. And it does suck gas.

I asked my dealer what they use to haul their G's around and to my surprise it's a Tundra! Anyone have any experience with this vehicle? It is rated around 10,000lb after all. Used ones do sell for really interesting prices.
Old     (bcrider)      Join Date: Apr 2006       09-30-2015, 4:07 PM Reply   
Don't know much about the Tundra's themselves except I hear they are very thirsty trucks.
Old     (Fixable)      Join Date: Oct 2012       09-30-2015, 4:16 PM Reply   
RR..... To pull a G23...... Lol. 7700 lb tow capacity falls 1000lbs short. 500lb tongue weight capacity is also way short of what's needed. The hitch assy on a Range Rover is fastened to the rear unibody with 8 10mm bolts. They aren't even through bolted. The sheet metal is threaded. (Actually it has to be threaded when the hitch is installed. It is a PITA)

I am sure it probably holds up fine with non excessive loads, but it sure isn't comforting to know how it is attached to the vehicle.... No heavy frame work to attach to at all. The average 1/2 ton pickup has a setup that is at least 2x as strong. I installed the hitch in my 13 RR, and I used it to tow my 3 place sled trailer (3000ish pounds loaded). It worked well. No way in hell I would hook up to my boat with that thing though.
Old     (Jn94defender)      Join Date: Mar 2013       09-30-2015, 4:17 PM Reply   
Oops. Didn't look at the dry weight of the G23. My bad. As you were, I will go back to lurking.
Old     (Fixable)      Join Date: Oct 2012       09-30-2015, 4:33 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jn94defender View Post
Oops. Didn't look at the dry weight of the G23. My bad. As you were, I will go back to lurking.
Haha

Ya, new G is like 5900 dry+ 500lbs fuel+ 100-300lbs options, coolant, etc. + 1700lbs trailer + 200-500lbs of gear/boards/beer etc.

The average G23 is running around on a trailer at 8500-9000lbs. It is a heavy girl.
Old     (seth)      Join Date: Sep 2002       09-30-2015, 4:34 PM Reply   
I have a 2011 Tundra crewmax and tow my 01 SAN with it. It has tons of power and tows that boat very well. For the amount of towing you are doing a Tundra will be fine . Go test drive one, the 5.7 is a monster.
Old     (mark197)      Join Date: Dec 2009       09-30-2015, 5:05 PM Reply   
Just get one of these and be done with it.
Old     (King12)      Join Date: Jul 2012       09-30-2015, 5:43 PM Reply   
^ I second that!
Toyotas are rock solid, but you did have a 4Runner! I've heard the power on that 5.7 is good stuff so I'm sure that is fine. You could ask them if you could try their tundra and see how you feel about it \_(ツ)_/
Old     (beg4wake)      Join Date: Aug 2012       09-30-2015, 8:59 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakebordr11 View Post
Slight highjack, but you seem knowledgeable, and I think it's good discussion based on what the OP may be looking at a 1/2ton or 3/4ton for towing duty - and it's the total package of engine, trans, rear end, truck that determines capacities, not just the model truck...

So my question:

I've got a 2013 F-150 with the 5.0L V-8 and 3.55 gearing. What about my truck (when properly equipped with a WDH), would lessen it's capacity according to Ford when compared to the same truck with the Ecoboost. Yes, I understand the ecoboost has greater PULLING power/torque, but I'm fairly confident brakes, chassis, curb weights are all similar, so why the 1,900 lb capacity difference between Eco/5.0L with the 3.55 rear end, and only 300lb difference when comparing a 5.0/3.73 rear end (9400) to ecoboost/3.73 (9700).

It seems the rear end isn't the limiting factor, nor the engine. Maybe it's torque curves/transmission shifting that would overload the V-8 with certain rear end gearing? Realistically, I won't be towing greater than 5,000lbs, but I found Ford's towing guide curious.
I'm not 100% sure, but it seems as though Ford has the 6.2V8 and the Ecoboost as their tow model trucks so the suspension and chassis set up may be a little different that that of the 5.0V8 which they may market more towards a smoother ride. I notice on their website the GCWR is less on the 5.0 with the 3.55 which leads me to believe with that motor/trans combo, they just don't feel it will tow as much (which may have also led Ford to put a smoother riding suspension on them). Now the 3.5EB puts out more HP and way more TQ so that may accrue for the difference. Again, I'm not 100% sure, that's something you would have to ask Ford!
Old     (beg4wake)      Join Date: Aug 2012       09-30-2015, 9:13 PM Reply   
Its funny how many people on here think the motor and HP #'s are the only thing needed to pull a boat! There are so many other factors such as brakes, suspension, framework, and hitch positions that play a key factor. And you should most definitely use a WDH when towing something as big as a G with a 1/2 ton or less. The framework and suspension aren'y rated to handle that much weight. And sometimes the brakes too! And yes you can tow a vehicle with a gas truck and the maintenance is cheaper than a diesel, but if all you are using the truck for is towing, then the diesel will FAR outlast and gas motor. Now if you drive the truck for other things more than you tow, then I would recommend a gas truck. I've had many gas trucks in our company work fleet that do a hefty amount of hauling, and they usually get around 100-150k miles of use. We have about 6-7 diesels at any time, and they mostly make it to 300k plus miles before we trade them in for newer models. I will however give some credit to the Ecoboost trucks...if you were going to go with a 1500 model, that would 100% be my recommendation. (Although I have yet to drive a new Chevy 1500 with Ecotec 6.2V8 with max trailer package - I also hear good things about this).

PS, you can use a WDH when towing, you just have to use the correct type so that it doesn't interfere with the boat trailers surge brakes. Best to contact manufacturer for recommendations.
Old     (WakeNasty)      Join Date: Jun 2013       09-30-2015, 9:27 PM Reply   
I also have a f 10 with EB... the thing is a beast. I own a construction company, so I do pull trailers often. The F 10 with EB is the best truck I have ever had. IMHO the look great too.
Old     (adam4x4)      Join Date: Jan 2009       09-30-2015, 9:38 PM Reply   
When it comes to towing power is great thing to have, but it is not always needed. There is one thing you do need and that is braking. Yes there are brakes on the trailer, but you still need a vehicle the can provide the best stopping for the weight that you are pulling. I do not have a G23, I have a F21 and my last truck was a GMC heavy half with the 6.2 gas motor. Loved the truck ate gas like no other when towing and when not (just thirsty). I now have a 2500 ram with the Cummings and love it too. Gets way better fuel mileage and can stop the boat with out any problems. I agree with Fixable that boat is going to weigh 8500 lbs. on the trailer to pull and stop.
Old     (davez71)      Join Date: Oct 2007       10-01-2015, 3:12 PM Reply   
I tow my X23 with a 2014 Chevy 6.2L with a lift/35 in tires and I have zero issues towing. I don't feel unsafe. I only tow when I need to go to the dealer which is two hours away but I can set the cruise at 70 and not think twice. I don't think you always need a diesel.

I just pulled the boat with a diesel and the biggest difference that I saw was braking. the Dodge Diesels have the brake exhaust and boy was that cool how easy it stopped the boat.
Old     (Cabledog)      Join Date: Dec 2013       10-01-2015, 9:30 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by sppeders View Post
I echo the above.

My wife/I have always driven commuter cars and and a bigger rig strictly for hauling/towing. We just sold our F350. When i sold it the guy buying it just needed a bigger rig for maybe 5% utility of the vehicle for hauling boats/plowing. Didn't necessarily justify clunking that monster around on a daily.

my $.02
My thoughts exactly but my truck is a daily driver. HD diesel not needed to tow a G. I did put airbags on my F150 to avoid the pogo-ing for towing and maintain the ride when empty. In tow mode the transmission holds the gears on downgrades which is cool. My previous trick was a lifted superduty. It was bad ass but overkill and rode like crap.

Last edited by Cabledog; 10-01-2015 at 9:33 PM.
Old     (Copenglenn)      Join Date: Aug 2015       10-02-2015, 8:13 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by davez71 View Post

I just pulled the boat with a diesel and the biggest difference that I saw was braking. the Dodge Diesels have the brake exhaust and boy was that cool how easy it stopped the boat.
GM Diesels can also have the turbine brake function programmed in since they have a variable geometry turbo. This is available starting with the 04.5 LLY Duramax trucks.

I have also done the swap from one SUV to a truck and a car. I found a higher mileage 3/4 ton Duramax as a boat hauler and then got an E46 325XI to drive around. It gets around great in the winter and isn't too bad on gas either.

Last edited by Copenglenn; 10-02-2015 at 8:22 AM. Reason: Edit
Old     (beg4wake)      Join Date: Aug 2012       10-02-2015, 11:46 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by davez71 View Post
I tow my X23 with a 2014 Chevy 6.2L with a lift/35 in tires and I have zero issues towing. I don't feel unsafe. I only tow when I need to go to the dealer which is two hours away but I can set the cruise at 70 and not think twice. I don't think you always need a diesel.

I just pulled the boat with a diesel and the biggest difference that I saw was braking. the Dodge Diesels have the brake exhaust and boy was that cool how easy it stopped the boat.
You have GOT to be kidding me! I agree that you don't necessarily need a diesel for the tow, especially as little as you tow. But you really felt NO difference between the diesel and the gas besides braking? You must not have had to of hit any hills. Living here in VA, I can most definitely tell the difference between a gas and a diesel. That EXTRA 400 foot pounds of torque (my cummins is 800lft/lb) really shows on uphill grades. Plus when you need to get on it, it's there! And I came from a 395 hp - 410 ft/lb Hemi Ram 1500. Plus, the truck handles a lot better with the weighted tow because the front wheels (steering and braking) are more grounded due to the beefier suspension. You put 8900lbs behind your lifted Chevy with 6.2L and I guarantee it's gonna lose some mph going up a long distance stretch up a hill. Now to some, that may not concern them because either they don't have too many hills to go up, or they just don't mind having to go a little slower...but I personally prefer to still be able to pass a tractor trailer no problem on an uphill grade (and not even have to break 4k rpms to do so). I could do it on the 1500 Ram...but it would sound like it was gonna blow up running a constant 5-6k rpms!

EDIT: Now I'm not advocating to get a diesel...I'm just stating there is a BIG difference in towing with one over a gas. All I use my truck for is to tow my boat. And I wanted a lifted truck also so I opted for a diesel so that I wouldn't have to compromise. Now if my truck were going to be my only vehicle that I drive, I would have considered a 1500 a little more as they ride a ton better than a 2500! That's just where you have to assess your needs; towing vs commuting. And if you're buying a car to commute and a truck to tow separate, and have to watch a specific budget, then I would buy a nicer car and then just an older diesel truck to tow with that will last you years and years to come. It's a proven fact that a diesel pickup has twice the life of a gas pickup, maybe even more if only towing with either. Granted they do have more costly maintenance, but it'll pay out in the long run.

Last edited by beg4wake; 10-02-2015 at 11:56 AM.
Old     (beg4wake)      Join Date: Aug 2012       10-02-2015, 11:47 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Copenglenn View Post
GM Diesels can also have the turbine brake function programmed in since they have a variable geometry turbo. This is available starting with the 04.5 LLY Duramax trucks.

I have also done the swap from one SUV to a truck and a car. I found a higher mileage 3/4 ton Duramax as a boat hauler and then got an E46 325XI to drive around. It gets around great in the winter and isn't too bad on gas either.
Not 100% sure, but I think the newer GM's also have it already built in. I know Ford and Cummins both have exhaust braking.
Old     (davez71)      Join Date: Oct 2007       10-02-2015, 11:54 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by beg4wake View Post
You have GOT to be kidding me! I agree that you don't necessarily need a diesel for the tow, especially as little as you tow. But you really felt NO difference between the diesel and the gas besides braking? You must not have had to of hit any hills. Living here in VA, I can most definitely tell the difference between a gas and a diesel. That EXTRA 400 foot pounds of torque (my cummins is 800lft/lb) really shows on uphill grades. Plus when you need to get on it, it's there! And I came from a 395 hp - 410 ft/lb Hemi Ram 1500. Plus, the truck handles a lot better with the weighted tow because the front wheels (steering and braking) are more grounded due to the beefier suspension. You put 8900lbs behind your lifted Chevy with 6.2L and I guarantee it's gonna lose some mph going up a long distance stretch up a hill. Now to some, that may not concern them because either they don't have too many hills to go up, or they just don't mind having to go a little slower...but I personally prefer to still be able to pass a tractor trailer no problem on an uphill grade (and not even have to break 4k rpms to do so). I could do it on the 1500 Ram...but it would sound like it was gonna blow up running a constant 5-6k rpms!
I live in Louisiana and yes there are no hills. I don't like to pull boats over 70 mph. Yes the diesel did have some good pickup for passing but I don't think it's a drastic difference to my 6.2l.

I will agree that a diesel makes it easier in hills but for me I can't justify the price difference. I do think that the Chevy 6.2l max towing is the best 1500 on the road for pulling and I have pulled my X23 with a ford EB. Even my friend who owns the EB said that my truck was better.

If I lived in the hills and towed my boat every weekend I would think about a diesel because it makes more sense and you will get better mileage towing. But in South Louisiana where it's flat and I don't have to tow a lot my 6.2L does awesome. Personally I don't think it would do all that bad in hills but that's just me. But I don't live in those environments so I really wouldn't know.
Old     (beg4wake)      Join Date: Aug 2012       10-02-2015, 12:03 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by davez71 View Post
I live in Louisiana and yes there are no hills. I don't like to pull boats over 70 mph. Yes the diesel did have some good pickup for passing but I don't think it's a drastic difference to my 6.2l.

I will agree that a diesel makes it easier in hills but for me I can't justify the price difference. I do think that the Chevy 6.2l max towing is the best 1500 on the road for pulling and I have pulled my X23 with a ford EB. Even my friend who owns the EB said that my truck was better.

If I lived in the hills and towed my boat every weekend I would think about a diesel because it makes more sense and you will get better mileage towing. But in South Louisiana where it's flat and I don't have to tow a lot my 6.2L does awesome. Personally I don't think it would do all that bad in hills but that's just me. But I don't live in those environments so I really wouldn't know.
Well then I can agree with you there! And like I said, I have heard great things about that new Chevy 6.2L! I have yet to try one out! I'm sure it's great for light towing (where I live). But for me, a gas just would not cut it. Hell...I only tow about 8 miles from my house to the lake, but 5 miles of that is uphill! As soon as I get on the interstate (to go down just ONE exit) I have to try to get up to the speed limit (70) on an uphill grade right off! Plus VA is full of mountains so if I go to one of the few other close lakes, I highly prefer the diesel! But I am about to get a new company work vehicle and I am def gonna have to give that 6.2L chevy a consideration! I just wished I liked their interiors a little better. :P
Old     (davez71)      Join Date: Oct 2007       10-02-2015, 12:09 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by beg4wake View Post
Well then I can agree with you there! And like I said, I have heard great things about that new Chevy 6.2L! I have yet to try one out! I'm sure it's great for light towing (where I live). But for me, a gas just would not cut it. Hell...I only tow about 8 miles from my house to the lake, but 5 miles of that is uphill! As soon as I get on the interstate (to go down just ONE exit) I have to try to get up to the speed limit (70) on an uphill grade right off! Plus VA is full of mountains so if I go to one of the few other close lakes, I highly prefer the diesel! But I am about to get a new company work vehicle and I am def gonna have to give that 6.2L chevy a consideration! I just wished I liked their interiors a little better. :P
Luckily we don't have any hills in Louisiana. the biggest hills we see are interstate crossovers and bridges.

I strongly recommend the Chevy 6.2L. I think its the best engine in 1500 pickup trucks on the market. Now they have the 8 speed tranny for better mileage. I always like diesels and may get one but as long as chevy has the 6.2L I will have no reason to get one.

Go test drive one, they were fast as can be and throw you back in your seat. To me, Fords 6.2L is a joke compared to the Chevy 6.2L
Old     (Copenglenn)      Join Date: Aug 2015       10-02-2015, 12:19 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by beg4wake View Post
Not 100% sure, but I think the newer GM's also have it already built in. I know Ford and Cummins both have exhaust braking.
The newer LML (2011+) models come with the exhaust standard from the factory.
Old    BamaMojo            10-02-2015, 1:46 PM Reply   
F150
Old     (dilpickle)      Join Date: Aug 2013       10-02-2015, 11:52 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by davez71 View Post
Luckily we don't have any hills in Louisiana. the biggest hills we see are interstate crossovers and bridges.

I strongly recommend the Chevy 6.2L. I think its the best engine in 1500 pickup trucks on the market. Now they have the 8 speed tranny for better mileage. I always like diesels and may get one but as long as chevy has the 6.2L I will have no reason to get one.

Go test drive one, they were fast as can be and throw you back in your seat. To me, Fords 6.2L is a joke compared to the Chevy 6.2L
My truck is a '14 Duramax, wife's truck is a '15 1/2 ton with the 6.2 & 8 speed (not the max tow package). Our boat is a '14 Tige Z1 that scales out just under 7K on the trailer.

Our lake is roughly 40 miles away & has a couple of hills that are 8% grade & we are at 5,300 ft of elevation. I can honestly say the only difference in hauling that boat with either truck is the amount of fuel used & the engine speed at the top of those hills. They will both maintain 70 (cruise control set speed). The brakes on my 2500 are much better, but her 1500 is no slouch.

One last stick in the eye of the EB owners-on our last trip to Laramie, we averaged 24 MPG :-]
Old     (RPM_DLX)      Join Date: Jul 2010       10-06-2015, 9:33 AM Reply   
I'll throw my .02cents in on this. I thinks its crazy to think you need a diesel 3/4 ton to tow a G23. I have a 2015 Toyota tundra and I wouldn't hesitate to tow that. I think some people fail to realize that many new half tons are rated to tow over 10,000lbs. My dad has a 2013 F-150 ecoboost and that would easily work as well. I've towed my boat with his truck as well as mine. Just looking at the towing aspect, I would give the nod to the Tundra. It pulls much better and is more responsive. Tow haul mode in the Tundra is a huge difference and unlike pressing tow haul in any other half ton (most likely because of the variable valve timing). Both trucks would easily tow a G23. I know my tundra pulls my boat which weighs probably between 5-6k lbs with all my gear and another 1000lbs of camping gear in the bed with ease up 8% grades and could easily tow much more. A friend uses Tundras for his company and tows 10k lb trailers everyday so I don't think a G23 is going to be a challenge.

However; going back to the OP's original statement, he is looking at used for 20k. I'm not real up to date on prices in Canada but that aint going to get much of a diesel. My best bet would be to find an 07 and up Tundra with the 5.7L used. Probably the best thing in that price range to do the job.
Old     (beg4wake)      Join Date: Aug 2012       10-06-2015, 11:02 AM Reply   
I have to disagree with the last post. I've towed using a Toyota Tundra, and while it was impressive in the power department (still wouldn't put it over the Ford EB or the new Chevy 6.2), it lacked in suspension and braking. And I would surely hope that if your buddy is using it to tow 10k+ loads all the time, I hope it is from a 5th wheel or with a weight distribution hitch. I'm not saying that you need a diesel to tow, but you should at least have a 3/4 ton pickup or be using a WD hitch for sure (maybe even use a WD hitch on the 3/4 also). Trust me, from personal experience, if you are towing over the factory rated 5,000lbs (towing at rear receiver w/o WD hitch), you WILL lose critical functions such as steering and braking if you ever get into a hairy situation such as hydroplaning or emergency braking. In fact, if you have to brake hard, the added braking from the trailer is actually going to imply further tongue weight to the rear of the truck, further lightening the friction of the front end of the truck. For gods sake people, and for the safety of those around you, leave the ego at home when it comes to towing! Either get a vehicle that is MADE to handle the weights of these boats, or get the proper equipment (a weight distribution hitch) to do so. Just because you CAN do something, doesn't mean you SHOULD!

On a side note, I've seen somebody get killed from this exact thing...the driver, who was being tried for vehicular manslaughter, attempted to place blame on the manufacturer of the vehicle....that was basically laughed out of court due to the fact he exceeded the factory tow ratings. ALL manufacturers are going to boast their max payload...but read the fine print!
Old     (iShredSAN)      Join Date: Apr 2012       10-06-2015, 11:41 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by beg4wake View Post
I have to disagree with the last post. I've towed using a Toyota Tundra, and while it was impressive in the power department (still wouldn't put it over the Ford EB or the new Chevy 6.2), it lacked in suspension and braking. And I would surely hope that if your buddy is using it to tow 10k+ loads all the time, I hope it is from a 5th wheel or with a weight distribution hitch. I'm not saying that you need a diesel to tow, but you should at least have a 3/4 ton pickup or be using a WD hitch for sure (maybe even use a WD hitch on the 3/4 also). Trust me, from personal experience, if you are towing over the factory rated 5,000lbs (towing at rear receiver w/o WD hitch), you WILL lose critical functions such as steering and braking if you ever get into a hairy situation such as hydroplaning or emergency braking. In fact, if you have to brake hard, the added braking from the trailer is actually going to imply further tongue weight to the rear of the truck, further lightening the friction of the front end of the truck. For gods sake people, and for the safety of those around you, leave the ego at home when it comes to towing! Either get a vehicle that is MADE to handle the weights of these boats, or get the proper equipment (a weight distribution hitch) to do so. Just because you CAN do something, doesn't mean you SHOULD!

On a side note, I've seen somebody get killed from this exact thing...the driver, who was being tried for vehicular manslaughter, attempted to place blame on the manufacturer of the vehicle....that was basically laughed out of court due to the fact he exceeded the factory tow ratings. ALL manufacturers are going to boast their max payload...but read the fine print!
Well said!
Old     (Fixable)      Join Date: Oct 2012       10-06-2015, 4:01 PM Reply   
Amen, beg4wake.

People seem to forget, or ignore the fact that "max tow rating" doesn't mean you can hook anything up, any way you want, as long as it is less than the max rated amount.
Old    BamaMojo            10-07-2015, 6:26 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by BamaMojo View Post
F150

Let me be more specific, 3.5 L Eco boost F150. It will handle the boat well with no safety issues.
Old     (King12)      Join Date: Jul 2012       10-07-2015, 8:17 AM Reply   
I think people kind of think it's bs because we see other countries with the same or lesser vehicles with tow rating 5 times ours. Like ford Falcons in Australia can tow 5000 pounds, a v8 sedan. Can an American Pontiac g8 do that? No damn way.

Not saying we shouldn't care about tow ratings, just that that makes them seem.... Trivial at the best, and there only for legal reasons and to promote Americans buying huge vehicles.

Again advocating op gets a used 3/4 ton and a small used car for comfort sake in both departments. Just saying why tow ratings seem suspicious as crap to me.
Old     (Ewok01)      Join Date: Apr 2013       10-07-2015, 9:12 AM Reply   
I know the OP is looking at a slightly used truck but when you want to compare tow ratings, with real world testing to back up the numbers, the new SAE J2807 is followed now by almost all of the 1/2 and 3/4 ton pickups and some of the SUV's that are based on the pickups. One notable exception is the F450, it hasn't been rated with SAE J2807. This article describes the new test:

http://www.trucktrend.com/how-to/tow...-the-standard/

I tow with a Sequoia, and before SAEJ2807 it was rated to tow close to 10,000, now it's down to 7,100-7,400 depending on options. I have weighed my boat on a scale (2009 RZ2) with a full tank of gas, and coolers, and all the gear for a day at the lake, and it comes in at 6,400. That leaves me enough room to have the wife and the kids and some other gear in the SUV and still be below the GCWR.

If you look at a newer truck (Toyota since 2011, the rest since 2015ish), and its rated to tow what you need, you're good to go. Before the new tow rating, people would get tow vehicles that were rated to tow much more than the load they were pulling. The thinking was that manufactures were just using marketing numbers and there wasn't any real testing going on to determine the true towing capacity. Most would tell you to get a vehicle with 20% more tow capacity than you plan to tow with. The new tow ratings are standardized and tested to give real numbers to consumers so you can shop and buy according to your towing needs, and not have to overbuy the tow capacity.
Old     (bcrider)      Join Date: Apr 2006       10-07-2015, 9:50 AM Reply   
Regardless, with the little amount of towing the OP is doing yearly a 1/2 ton gasser would be fine. If he was to be towing constantly then a diesel may make more sense. But the rest of the time he's driving something around that he doesn't really need. If the cost doesn't matter then more power to ya if that's what you want to drive.
Old     (beg4wake)      Join Date: Aug 2012       10-07-2015, 11:01 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcrider View Post
Regardless, with the little amount of towing the OP is doing yearly a 1/2 ton gasser would be fine. If he was to be towing constantly then a diesel may make more sense. But the rest of the time he's driving something around that he doesn't really need. If the cost doesn't matter then more power to ya if that's what you want to drive.
I agree, a 1/2 ton gasser would be fine for the little towing he does. But he STILL needs a Weight Distribution hitch. The need for emergency braking/handling can happen any distance from the house.

MOST people towing don't even know what a weight distribution hitch is or what it does. It doesn't make the tow weight any lighter (you still have to follow the max tow capacity or max GWCR for that), it just alleviates tongue weight which allows the front of the truck to stay planted as it is intended. Most tow capacity charts will state plainly that the weights shown are either at the 5th wheel or by using a weight distribution hitch. And at the weight of the new G boats, including trailer weight, ALL 1500's should really be using a weight distribution hitch (or air bag additions to the rear suspension may also work). For that matter, a 3/4 ton's stock suspension set up may even be questionable. I personally had supervisions for heavy duty towing installed on my truck when I had it lifted. Sure it rides a little rougher than most lifted trucks these days...but the handling and braking performance on my truck, especially when towing far exceed that of what it could do in its factory form.
Old     (BurnMac42)      Join Date: May 2015       10-07-2015, 12:03 PM Reply   
The Toyota Tundra's with the right configuration have been rated to tow 10,500 pounds since the Gen 2's came out in 2007.

I have an 07 that I have pulled 9,000 travel trailers thru the mountains in Utah and it handled just fine. No brake fade, both wet and dry conditions, etc.

With all that being said, you own a G23 dude....just buy a diesel and get a commuter and that way you won't have any doubts as to whether or not you can tow the thing....

I personally wouldn't skimp on a safety item for my $100k+ boat.....

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