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Old     (johnny_defacto)      Join Date: Sep 2006       10-13-2011, 2:02 AM Reply   
oh, sorry. The boat is a 2011 A22.
Old     (smitty1258)      Join Date: Jun 2009       10-13-2011, 7:48 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by illini88 View Post
Was the ballast full? How about the fuel level? In my experience with the MB wakes (2008 and newer), I've not seen one that disappoints. With the 21 footers, I never found the need for more weight, but some weight in the nose did mellow it out a bit. If you ge the chance to take one out again, I'd put your crew in the bow and leave the sack at home.
Stock ballast was 100% full. Id guess the fuel was pretty low, it was a dealers boat. And we had the 550 sac, prolly filled to 475 in the front bow/walkway area. I guess I should also say the wake wasnt bad, but it wasnt a 23WB, and it wasnt anywhere near to the photo posted earlier. We cut ourselves short on time during this demo as well, so I feel if we had a bit more time we could have figured it out. Im trying to convert both these guys from axis's ones a 2011A20 and ones a 2011A22, both run 3000+ and both love there wakes. I drive there boats all the time as we all ride together and thats how I can compare the handling of the MB vs the Axis/Malibu. Both the Axis and Malibu handle great, but we all felt the MB handled better, and even more so when loaded down. My buddy with the A22 used to have a Supra23v and it was like you needed 2 guys to turn the freaking wheel when loaded down, the Axis is much easier, and the MB is even easier yet.
Old     (FunkyBunch)      Join Date: Jun 2011       10-13-2011, 8:38 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by smitty1258 View Post
My buddy with the A22 used to have a Supra23v and it was like you needed 2 guys to turn the freaking wheel when loaded down, the Axis is much easier, and the MB is even easier yet.
smitty Just to clarify there is not a Supra 23v it would be a 22v or 24v the 23 footer is from Moomba in the Skiers Choice line. Either way though Supra's are pigs when loaded they also have one other problem IMO they like bow weight to the point you can easily dunk the bow.

Keep up the reviews coming on the MB's I am very interested in what people are finding about the wakes. We have a wakeboard camp here locally using them now just one more reason to go get some leasons.
Old     (diamonddad)      Join Date: Mar 2010       10-13-2011, 9:07 AM Reply   
Johnny, have you driven a 2012 21' MB? They turn much better than the 2011 MBs.
Old     (slipknot)      Join Date: Aug 2001       10-13-2011, 9:38 AM Reply   
axis wake 22 with 4000 lbs is no comparison to a 21 MB
Old     (bruizza)      Join Date: May 2009       10-13-2011, 10:30 AM Reply   
Hate I have demoed a MB 21 Tomcat and we have an A22 with 4klbs of ballast. Not sure exactly what you mean in your post because the Axis with 4k lbs is a hell of a lot bigger than a 21 tomcat with 1800lbs. I am going to assume that is what you meant. With over a ton more weight that shouldn't surprise anyone. We are actually hoping to set up a demo for tomorrow with our A22 and a 23 TWB. I am really curious how they stack up side by side.
Old     (tn_rider)      Join Date: Dec 2009       10-13-2011, 10:33 AM Reply   
Hate, saying axis wake is better? Or MB is better. I'm going to be in the market this next year. These are the top two. I know it's all personal preference. When it comes down to it I'm just gonna be happy to ride again haha but I WILL be slamming any boat I get.
Old     (tn_rider)      Join Date: Dec 2009       10-13-2011, 10:35 AM Reply   
I have been looking for an axis/MB comparison so this will help out alot! Are the wakes night and day as far as shape? Or pretty similar?
Old     (slipknot)      Join Date: Aug 2001       10-13-2011, 10:39 AM Reply   
I just had to dump gas on the fire, all these bros squakin over whos wake is bigger is what wakeworld has come to be these days. You got your boat, GD has his Dafecto john has his, then theres Tige cwb4me, wakebashfest.com, Blah blah blah, Go ride. I love listening to everyone say mine is better than yours most of them cant even go toeside w2w is my guess. Flameon kids. IDGAF. fyi want more gas, Spoke to my buddy at Corporate and the MXV wake is supposed to blow minds, put that one in the bowl and puff
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       10-13-2011, 10:40 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by bruizza View Post
Hate I have demoed a MB 21 Tomcat and we have an A22 with 4klbs of ballast. Not sure exactly what you mean in your post because the Axis with 4k lbs is a hell of a lot bigger than a 21 tomcat with 1800lbs. I am going to assume that is what you meant. With over a ton more weight that shouldn't surprise anyone. We are actually hoping to set up a demo for tomorrow with our A22 and a 23 TWB. I am really curious how they stack up side by side.
take lots of pics if you can!
Old     (tn_rider)      Join Date: Dec 2009       10-13-2011, 10:48 AM Reply   
Hate, no flaming here! I agree 100%. I grew up an rode behind a bass boat every day for 4 years. Learned ALL my basic 180's and
BEGGED my parents for a wake boat. Their reply was "save up" so I did lol. A big wake is nice don't get me wrong, but I'm just happy to ride!!
Old     (slipknot)      Join Date: Aug 2001       10-13-2011, 11:08 AM Reply   
Chase, you're a diamond in the rough. I hear you.
Old     (bruizza)      Join Date: May 2009       10-13-2011, 11:14 AM Reply   
Hate you are 100% right WW has turned into whose wake is bigger. It is an online pissing contest and pretty much everyone loses. We are interested in MBs obviously or we wouldn't be demoing them. We usually have a pretty big crew so we feel like the 23 is the way to go over the 21 if we decide to go MB. Do any of you MB guys happen to know when the redesigned 23 TC will be available? I guess the question is will it be available in time for the beginning of our season May 1st or will it be a late summer release like the redesigned F21, TWB 21, and TWB 23 were?
Old     (slipknot)      Join Date: Aug 2001       10-13-2011, 11:16 AM Reply   
The redesign is on the list, check your pm, I sent you MB details not for public consumption
Old     (tn_rider)      Join Date: Dec 2009       10-13-2011, 11:23 AM Reply   
Hate, once a week a friend who had an x star would ride. But all the other days it was me and just the ol bass boat haha made me respect the sport ALOT more
Old     (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       10-13-2011, 11:39 AM Reply   
Mxv?
Old     (slipknot)      Join Date: Aug 2001       10-13-2011, 11:44 AM Reply   
MXZ MXZ Malibu! Tom you should know this already You will be seeing one in Party Cove come spring I am sure of it. Sorry for the spelling error
Old     (tampawake)      Join Date: Mar 2008       10-13-2011, 11:46 AM Reply   
This is classic. I think any boat that is sub 60k is exciting. Too bad MB has not figured a way to do a plug and play with the gravity fed. Other than that and some of the crazy gel coat design which I KNOW and have seen you can get more classic plain look why not MB. Looks like fit and finish a step ahead of Axis and Moomba and NO I have never been in an MB but just judging from pictures. How do you beat this even if you pay exactly what they are asking.

http://www.boattrader.com/listing/20...omcat-99465350
Old     (johnny_defacto)      Join Date: Sep 2006       10-13-2011, 12:26 PM Reply   
Gd- no, i have not driven any 2012 boat. From what i am TOLD by mb, the bottom half of the hull is unchanged, but there is an additional tracking fin, or location change of an existing one. The difference was nite and day between the 2 boats, but i believe u when u say the 2012 mb is improved. Axis offers an additional tracking fin as well, interested in doing a side by side of 2012s. Unfortunately my local malibu dealer no longer carrries mb, so this will be more difficult.

Hate- your assumtions are incorrect and if you do not like all the "bros" on here you can avoid the forums. Btw, i do not wear black socks, nor do i have a flat billed hat. i have been helped a ton by people on these forums and find the discussions and information valuable.

Chase- worlds apart on wake. The a22 is rampy, one of the mellowest next to the xstar. Mb is steep, similar to the old san, but a lot wider.
Old     (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       10-13-2011, 12:30 PM Reply   
The MXZ is a nice ass boat, but, according to my sources, you're not going to be a better wake out of the MXZ than what you get with an A22. If that were not the case, I'd be ordering an MXZ next year.
Old     (tn_rider)      Join Date: Dec 2009       10-13-2011, 12:39 PM Reply   
See all the guys I ride with EXTREMELY dislike the old San wake. Said it was like tripping over a coffee table LOL I don't have an opinion. Never ridden one. They are my bros and have been there since day one so their opinion matters too. Looks like a22 it may be! Thanks for the help guys!
Old     (tampawake)      Join Date: Mar 2008       10-13-2011, 12:46 PM Reply   
The old SAN wake needed lots of weight up front to make it more rampy.
Old     (tn_rider)      Join Date: Dec 2009       10-13-2011, 12:53 PM Reply   
Just sent them a text, they LOVED it just weren't used to it. Guess it's a toss up still. When it comes closer to time I'm gonna try to take my whole crew and demo both and decide.
Old     (slipknot)      Join Date: Aug 2001       10-13-2011, 1:45 PM Reply   
MB not like the old San wake ever, dont know which one you rode in. MXZ better than VLX and A22, (from Corporate TN) Never said you were a flatbiller defacto, you should ride with us sometime at Vail. but you may need to bring your knee braces(jk). I am interested in seeing your A22 sometime. I like all the bros on here wakebashing and boatbashing its pure entertainment of the wakeworld I have come to know and love. Paradise sold 3 Axis in two years. Not sure on how many MB's they sold 10 or 12 in two years somebody got pissed and you see what happened. Sales speak for themselves. Flameon Simply put the two boats sat beside each other in the showroom, the customers looked and demoed both. MB won and got kicked out of the dealer. Ima rufflin feathers but thats why we are here to have fun
Old     (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       10-13-2011, 2:57 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by slipknot View Post
I just had to dump gas on the fire, all these bros squakin over whos wake is bigger is what wakeworld has come to be these days. You got your boat, GD has his Dafecto john has his, then theres Tige cwb4me, wakebashfest.com, Blah blah blah, Go ride. I love listening to everyone say mine is better than yours most of them cant even go toeside w2w is my guess. Flameon kids. IDGAF. fyi want more gas, Spoke to my buddy at Corporate and the MXV wake is supposed to blow minds, put that one in the bowl and puff
Hate, I couldn't agree more. That's why you never see me bragging about wake size. Personally, I couldn't care less. Any modern day wakeboat is beyond my skill level.

Here is what I look for in a boat... the most luxurious interior + best looking exterior I can get for my money.

I realize that makes me more about "show" than "go" but that's just the way I am. I like nice stuff, and I don't like to pay lots to get it. Always looking for a deal, that's why MB appeals to me. And that's why most of my posts are about the inside of the boat, and not the wake.
Old     (johnny_defacto)      Join Date: Sep 2006       10-13-2011, 3:11 PM Reply   
lol... i like people who ruffle feathers, it keeps life interesting. Not sure where you got your info about paradise, but that is the dealer I am talking about, but you are wrong about the 3 boats in 2 years, not even close. Paradise sold all their A22's and A20s for 2010 and 2011. I personally know of 4 2011's sold, including mine, just in a 10 mile radius from my house because I see them all the time. I know they sold 1 f21 for sure because its my buddies boat.

I am fortunate to have BU, CC (not anymore), MC/MB, and Tige all within 25 minutes of me. Our wake club also has good relationships with these dealers and I have had the pleasure of driving, riding, and sacking out a lot of boats.

When I bought, paradise had both mb and axis. I had 4 boats on my plate. a22, mb f21/twb, 05-08vlx, or vride. v ride was 5k more than the a22, smaller, and not as "rider designed". older vlx was a used boat, and did not want to pay the same $ for a used vlx as I could pay for a new mb or a22. it came down to the mb and a22. Side by side the a22 won hands down, no contest. But that was for MY needs and preferences. (this winter when I put the boat away, december probably, I plan on posting an in depth review of my first 1/2 summer with the boat, pros and cons...)

Ive ridden and driven a 2010 and 2011 mb f21, same boat. drove it empty, drove it stock ballast, drove it 800 over stock plus 6 people. Rode behind it stock, and rode behind it 800 over stock plus 6 people, and rode behind it 1500 over stock with driver only.

I preferred the 800 over and 6 people. The wake was big and steep. NO, its not the same as the old SAN, nothing is, but besides the epic, MB 21' comes next closest. I've ridden SANs that were really steep and some that are a little less steep. I found that the MB can be the same way. One time we got it super steep, it is a wide wake, so steep and wide was not as much fun (epic and SANs are narrower). But when we had it a bit more mellow, still pretty steep, it was fun. Its not like hitting a curb like the san, but it is on that side of the spectrum, opposite of xstar and bu/axis. If you prefer the old san/epic wake and don't mind it being a bit wider, then the mb wake is for you. thats all i was trying to convey. obviously, you know what side of the wake shape spectrum I fall.

I would love to have you out. Anytime your in CL area, hit me up, we will go shred. you will recognize me in my all white boat and I will be sure to wear a black flat billed hat, black famous shirt, studded leather belt, dickies shorts, tall black socks w/ black shoes, and all the shiny jewelry that I own
Old     (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       10-13-2011, 3:12 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by tampawake View Post
How do you beat this even if you pay exactly what they are asking?

http://www.boattrader.com/listing/20...omcat-99465350
Oh I can beat that easy! Cheaper and fully loaded with every option.

http://saltlakecity.craigslist.org/boa/2592478718.html
Old     (slipknot)      Join Date: Aug 2001       10-13-2011, 6:07 PM Reply   
I will make you an offer you cant refuse as soon as I sell mine

Just what I have heard you know how rumors get started.

The 23 TWB is the way to go from what I have learned. Now if I could just get the Finance committee to approve said necessary expenditures we would be all set.
Old     (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       10-13-2011, 8:09 PM Reply   
Hate, I'm not sure who you know, but I'm pretty confident what I've been told is true. No doubt the mxz produces a killer wake. Better than the a22? Nope. Similar? Yep. Oh, and I was on the first mxz produced too, but, hey, what do I know? Oh yeah, I know the damn rub rail on the mxz put a nice little scratch on the side of my a22 at pwt knox. Need to buff that out tomorrow haha.

But, I'll admit I haven't slammed a mxz yet personally. If for some reason what I've been told and seen on video is not correct, and the wake is actually better, you'll know it because I'll probably buy one.
Old     (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       10-13-2011, 8:53 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny_defacto View Post
Gd- no, i have not driven any 2012 boat. From what i am TOLD by mb, the bottom half of the hull is unchanged, but there is an additional tracking fin, or location change of an existing one.
The new fins are HUGE compared to the old ones. At least 2x bigger. And they are moved forward about 3 feet, which is a BIG change.

Until you drive a 2012, you should not comment on the handling of the MB's. I know you probably think, "How much difference can a few fins have?" The answer is... night and day. And I should know. I've owned both 2009 and 2012 21' MB's.

With that said, I think you are all placing WAY too much weight on handling. Who cares? Do you really turn that much? Last time I checked, wakeboarding is meant to be done in a straight line. Same with all other watersports (sans tubing). Even high speed cruising is best done w/out sharp turns. The MB turns so tight that I actually never even push it to it's limits... to do so might throw a passenger overboard.

Old     (downfortheride)      Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: SLC, UT 5600'       10-13-2011, 9:53 PM Reply   
The old fins are pretty legit! Then again we drive straight and give plenty of room to turn around and boat traffic is never a problem.
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Old     (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       10-13-2011, 10:22 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by downfortheride View Post
The old fins are pretty legit! Then again we drive straight and give plenty of room to turn around and boat traffic is never a problem.
My point exactly... who cares about turning?? It's a wakeboat, not a raceboat. Porsche of boats...? Lame. I'd rather drive the Denali XL of boats... big, heavy, and lots of torque.
Old     (diamonddad)      Join Date: Mar 2010       10-13-2011, 10:57 PM Reply   
Funny. I think my 2012 MB handles like a sports car but I really hardly care because I am not driving the boat like a sports car much.

What really really matters to me is how the boat pulls a rider without porpoising and rider-steer, how the boat turns on a dime at slow speed when I go to pick up a rider (without power turning), how the boat handles the rollers from other boats and how the boat handles rough water from yachts at the end of the day, Rider-steer is big on my list because it adds a lot of stress on the driver. And, turning around tight at slow speed is very important because I want to protect my rider by staying in my lane.
Old     (johnny_defacto)      Join Date: Sep 2006       10-14-2011, 12:34 AM Reply   
"With that said, I think you are all placing WAY too much weight on handling. Who cares? Do you really turn that much?"

I can think of 4 people/groups of people who cares:

1. Me and riders like me: I ride in a great place with great water BUT it is narrow and short. The turn arounds are very tight and the line has a few significant turns. So a boat that can make a quick easy turn and get straight again all while keeping speed is very important. Ive been to florida, they have huge water for days, so they can afford to not care about turning, but some of us do not have that luxury and I will assume that I am not the only one riding in narrow places... ie: the delta, maybe?

2. My wife. she drove it and said "nope, no way, we are not getting this boat." She has to drive me sometimes and knows how stressful it can be where we ride for someone who is not super experienced. She also just got done driving a 2008 VLX, so it was not really a fair fight. Don't worry though, there were a couple other boat manufacturers that got the same reaction. (info only: my wife is 5'4" and 100 lbs, so not the strongest...)

3. Many of the other local guys that ride/drive at my spot had the same reaction for the same reasons. (and yes, this is referring to the 2011 and older 21's only, again I will state I have no time on/in/behind a 2012).

4. MB. They obviously care or they would not have spent time, money and energy to fix a "non-problem" with their boats. They saw a problem, or "night and day" room for improvement, and are working to change it. Thats what they should do, but don't get all butt hurt when I make a observation that the 2010 and 2011 F21 do not turn really well, its more of an objective statement, and less of my opinion. I posted on this thread to defend MB, that the "flex" or whatever is manufacturer wide...except for MC, of course and not an issue. I can make negative observations too.
Old     (diamonddad)      Join Date: Mar 2010       10-14-2011, 1:03 AM Reply   
Many of the MB improvements are coming from Shane Stillman who was added to the MB team early this year:

http://ww.mbsports.net/documents/mb_...ss_release.pdf
Old     (tuneman)      Join Date: Mar 2002       10-14-2011, 7:39 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by diamonddad View Post
Many of the MB improvements are coming from Shane Stillman who was added to the MB team early this year:

http://ww.mbsports.net/documents/mb_...ss_release.pdf
ALL of the improvements are coming from Shane Stillman. (With input from Mike, of course). He came from that other company called Mali-something. The Axis is his creation. He made tons of improvements in the handling department like adding additional hook at the transom, pushing the prop further back and adding the big fins.

He's the Steve Jobs of the wakeboat world. Let's just hope he lives long.
Old     (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       10-14-2011, 8:41 AM Reply   
The Axis is NOT his creation. Who, pray tell, told you that?

Last edited by chattwake; 10-14-2011 at 8:44 AM.
Old     (tampawake)      Join Date: Mar 2008       10-14-2011, 9:48 AM Reply   
Lets hope the cost of Shane will not drive the price of the MB into that of Malibu
Old     (tuneman)      Join Date: Mar 2002       10-14-2011, 10:13 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by chattwake View Post
The Axis is NOT his creation. Who, pray tell, told you that?
Sorry, went a bit overboard on that statement. I'll rephrase it as he had a big part in it. There were many involved.
Old     (diamonddad)      Join Date: Mar 2010       10-14-2011, 10:14 AM Reply   
While I have no idea who was involved with the creation of Axis, a little googling shows that Shane was significantly involved with Axis.

http://axiswake.blogspot.com/2009/03...-with-a22.html

http://www.flickr.com/photos/axiswake/3103845244/
Old     (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       10-14-2011, 10:27 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny_defacto View Post
"With that said, I think you are all placing WAY too much weight on handling. Who cares? Do you really turn that much?"

I can think of 4 people/groups of people who cares:

1. Me and riders like me: I ride in a great place with great water BUT it is narrow and short. The turn arounds are very tight and the line has a few significant turns. So a boat that can make a quick easy turn and get straight again all while keeping speed is very important. Ive been to florida, they have huge water for days, so they can afford to not care about turning, but some of us do not have that luxury and I will assume that I am not the only one riding in narrow places... ie: the delta, maybe?

2. My wife. she drove it and said "nope, no way, we are not getting this boat." She has to drive me sometimes and knows how stressful it can be where we ride for someone who is not super experienced. She also just got done driving a 2008 VLX, so it was not really a fair fight. Don't worry though, there were a couple other boat manufacturers that got the same reaction. (info only: my wife is 5'4" and 100 lbs, so not the strongest...)

3. Many of the other local guys that ride/drive at my spot had the same reaction for the same reasons. (and yes, this is referring to the 2011 and older 21's only, again I will state I have no time on/in/behind a 2012).

4. MB. They obviously care or they would not have spent time, money and energy to fix a "non-problem" with their boats. They saw a problem, or "night and day" room for improvement, and are working to change it. Thats what they should do, but don't get all butt hurt when I make a observation that the 2010 and 2011 F21 do not turn really well, its more of an objective statement, and less of my opinion. I posted on this thread to defend MB, that the "flex" or whatever is manufacturer wide...except for MC, of course and not an issue. I can make negative observations too.
We ride on the narrow Willamette River. So I get the whole thing about narrow lanes, etc. I still don't get the need for tight turns at speed. When our rider goes down, we kill the throttle, let the boat settle, let the wakes pass us, then slowly turn around (still in our lane) and putt back to get the rider.

But I hear what you are saying in #4. MB did care. And they fixed it in 2012. So this is moot point now. I was just saying that while I like the improved handling, I rairly put it to use.

And for the record, nobody is butt hurt. Just making conversation.
Old     (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       10-14-2011, 11:06 AM Reply   
No doubt he was involved. That's part of what he was paid to do. However, to say that Axis was his "creation" is simply incorrect. It would be like saying that the guy who helped come up with certain design characteristics of the new ecoboost F-150 "created" Ford.
I don't know Shane, and I'm sure he's a hell of a guy and is damn good at what he does. I'm sure he's done, and will continue to do great things at MB. The new MB stuff I've seen is super nice, and I hope to get to ride some of the wakes I'm seeing on this thead. I'm just trying to set the record straight here. It's not like the guys who initiated the Axis line and oversaw its development are not still in charge at BU.

Last edited by chattwake; 10-14-2011 at 11:10 AM.
Old     (diamonddad)      Join Date: Mar 2010       10-14-2011, 11:40 AM Reply   
Chattwake, do you happen to know the history of Axis? Was it an independent startup that Malibu aquired? Or, was it a "spin-in" startup that Malibu funded? Also, do you know who the original founders were and if they remain with Axis/Malibu? I am just curious to know if you know.
Old     (johnny_defacto)      Join Date: Sep 2006       10-14-2011, 11:47 AM Reply   
Yeah man, i hear you on the turning thing. I too stop completely to pick up a fallen rider. Unfortunately our pass is like a comp pass, 6-8 tricks then its time to turn around again, so i do turn around at speed5-6 times per set.. with 3 riders, 2 sets each, thats up to30+ turn arounds, and one side is tight and getting tighter as the water level drops. Then driving d ups is another story.... i guess i am in the minority that i have to turn my boat. I do think as you do, its a wake boat, just go straight please, but it is nice driving a really well handling boat.
Old     (diamonddad)      Join Date: Mar 2010       10-14-2011, 12:17 PM Reply   
On the delta, we often ride narrow one-way channels like at Victoria Slough. This is a long 4 to 5 mile slough with a turn at each end so a rider gets at most one turn per set. It's also not that tight a turn. So, turning on a dime at slow speeds after dropping a rider is most important and I think that just requires a big rudder.
Old     (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       10-14-2011, 12:19 PM Reply   
Turning wouldn't be a factor if all my boat did was pull riders, but it also has to navigate docks, other boats, be trailered, responsive in emergencies ect ect. Handeling is important in a boat period. If it drives like a pig it's a pain in the ass for the other 90% of things you do besisdes pull wakeboarders. Also driving a nice handeling boat is fun. My truck's primary purpose is to pull my boat, but that doesn't mean I don't like the fact that it drives nicely when doing other things. MB is going the right direction in making their boats easier drive and more pleasant. To be hones t75% of the people owning wakeboats aren't hardcore wakeboarders and they'd be hurting themselves by thinking that way.
Old     (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       10-14-2011, 4:16 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by chattwake View Post
No doubt he was involved. That's part of what he was paid to do. However, to say that Axis was his "creation" is simply incorrect. It would be like saying that the guy who helped come up with certain design characteristics of the new ecoboost F-150 "created" Ford.
I don't know Shane, and I'm sure he's a hell of a guy and is damn good at what he does. I'm sure he's done, and will continue to do great things at MB. The new MB stuff I've seen is super nice, and I hope to get to ride some of the wakes I'm seeing on this thead. I'm just trying to set the record straight here. It's not like the guys who initiated the Axis line and oversaw its development are not still in charge at BU.
Chatt,

You are in denial. The sites above list his title as "Shane Stillman, Chief Designer for Axis Wake Research."

Are you saying the "Chief Designer" was just helping out a little bit?

I'm sure it takes more than one person to design a boat... in this case three. But if anybody get's credit for a success (or lampooned for a failure) it's the "Chief Designer." That's how accountability works.
Old     (nitrousbird)      Join Date: Sep 2008       10-14-2011, 4:47 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by diamonddad View Post
BTW, a friend of mine got a 2001 Sunsetter VLX with the diamond hull and cursed it's inability to make a good wakeboard wake everyday until he dumped it.
I have that same boat, and it makes a great wake. Wedge down, 500lbs in each locker, 300lbs in the bow. Wake stays solid down to about 18MPH...below that it is washout city but not may folks are riding that slow. I'm bumping to 750's in each locker this winter and probably a ski locker bag as well. The boat loves/needs weight in the front.
Old     (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       10-14-2011, 5:44 PM Reply   
Say what you want man. I know who did what when. It's cool. Feel free to infer what you want. It's not like I don't ride with the other guys who were involved or anything.
Old     (diamonddad)      Join Date: Mar 2010       10-14-2011, 6:55 PM Reply   
Chattwake, I had not idea you were that much of an insider. So, are you avoiding my questions?
Old     (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       10-14-2011, 11:05 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by diamonddad View Post
Chattwake, I had not idea you were that much of an insider. So, are you avoiding my questions?
Yep. Chatt is a connected guy. We are all very impressed.

I wonder why he won't tell us the name of the real Axis designers. He obviously has something to share but is afraid. So he tells you he's sure you're wrong, but offers nothing to prove it other than "trust me. I'm a connected guy."

Chatt- if you're going to come on here and claim that the guy with the title and pictured in the official press release is NOT the guy responsible for the boat, at least have the guts to say what you know. Otherwise why post at all?

Go ahead. Enlighten us all with your knowledge.
Old     (craigtxmc)      Join Date: Oct 2008       10-15-2011, 8:46 AM Reply   
"He's the Steve Jobs of the wakeboat world. Let's just hope he lives long."
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Old     (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       10-15-2011, 12:38 PM Reply   
Um... wow. Sickest MB I think I've ever seen.

Old     (craigtxmc)      Join Date: Oct 2008       10-15-2011, 4:55 PM Reply   
But did u notice the "Apple" esque bite?

Guess it wasn't as clever as I thought..
Lol
Old     (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       10-15-2011, 6:01 PM Reply   
Oh, I noticed it, Craig. I was just distracted. That boat sure is purty!
Old     (diamonddad)      Join Date: Mar 2010       10-15-2011, 10:14 PM Reply   
Since the above photo lended it's self to some MB tower edits, I did some cartoons for fun...
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Old     (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       10-17-2011, 8:03 AM Reply   
Here's what Adam McCall has to say about this:

"Shane was a valued asset to both Malibu and Axis and pitched in just as the rest of the team did in launching Axis. As in any team, including Apple, our strength is in the collection of talent, not myself or any single person can take away that if/when we leave. He will do great things wherever he is and should be respected by our market. - Adam"

No doubt Shane was involved in the design process relative to the Axis the line. Point being, it's not accurate to say or imply that Shane "created" Axis.
Old     (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       10-17-2011, 8:04 AM Reply   
GD, my understanding is that Axis was a spin-in, and the principal figures are still at BU.
Old     (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       10-17-2011, 9:30 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by chattwake View Post
Here's what Adam McCall has to say about this:

"Shane was a valued asset to both Malibu and Axis and pitched in just as the rest of the team did in launching Axis. As in any team, including Apple, our strength is in the collection of talent, not myself or any single person can take away that if/when we leave. He will do great things wherever he is and should be respected by our market. - Adam"

No doubt Shane was involved in the design process relative to the Axis the line. Point being, it's not accurate to say or imply that Shane "created" Axis.

Thanks, Chatt. Thath is much clearer than your previous posts.

I think it also sounds like what we might expect... no one product is really the result of one person. With that said, we as consumers often throw arounds statements like, "Jobs created the iPhone" as if he alone designed it in a lab. In truth, hundreds of people participated, but he gets the credit.

I don't know of any product that was produced by one person... except maybe the Slap Chop.

Old     (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       10-18-2011, 9:26 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by chattwake View Post
The MXZ is a nice ass boat, but, according to my sources, you're not going to be a better wake out of the MXZ than what you get with an A22. If that were not the case, I'd be ordering an MXZ next year.
According to my sources, who have been testing the boat the last few days, your sources are wrong. The stock MZX wake is similar to a loaded LSV. Second place I've heard this, Chad Sharpe was the first. I've ridden a loaded LSV and a loaded Axis, the loaded LSV wake is better than the loaded axis.
Old     (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       10-18-2011, 9:32 AM Reply   
Well, I guess everyone's entitled to their own opinion. Some will like the more vertical shape of the MXZ wake, and some will perfer the rampier style of the LSV wake, while some will like the fact that that A22 produces a rampy wake with a nice clean hard lip. I guess the term "better" depends on what you want. I guess my comment was directed at those who love the A22 wake for what it is. I could have been more clear in my op.
Old     (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       10-18-2011, 9:36 AM Reply   
The LSV wake was also harder, larger, and poppier then the axis wake. Axis wake is great, but the LSV is a step up, though the LSV wake is also more weight sensative than the axis. If they are getting that kind of wake stock with the MZX I wonder what it's like loaded. They are doing some loaded tests today, told him to take some pics.
Old     (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       10-18-2011, 9:41 AM Reply   
We can agree to disagree there. I've ridden a new LSV several times slammed with weight. When I compare both wakes behind that boat and mine, I perfer mine. I don't think the lsv wake is any larger, poppier, harder, etc. But, again, to each their own. We probably ought to quit hijacking this thread and start a different one though.

Last edited by chattwake; 10-18-2011 at 9:44 AM.

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