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Old     (kyle_m)      Join Date: Aug 2007       05-03-2010, 1:51 PM Reply   
so basically im currently working a job as a seasonal oncall firefighter with the forest service, the problem with it is that its oncall, my plan is to work with the apprenticeship program with the forest service and use the army as my back up if i dont get in it. i went and met with the recruiter today and told him that and all he is concerned about it making the army my number one, i kept reiterating that its my backup but he wouldnt get the point, i plan to start the paper work and everything with the army so that if i dont get in the US forest service full time i can ship. But does anyone have any advice on working with the recruiters, i know that i need to make the army work for me, have everything set in writing and go from there, any other advice???
Old    bigdtx            05-03-2010, 1:56 PM Reply   
Recruiters are salesmen for the military. Why not just wait until you hear from the forest service? How long is the apprenticeship program?
Old     (kyle_m)      Join Date: Aug 2007       05-03-2010, 2:00 PM Reply   
its 3 years, then full time but its a paid 3 years
Old     (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       05-03-2010, 2:11 PM Reply   
Army Recruiters lie to you. They can't promise you S&*(.
Old     (tinytdubb)      Join Date: Jul 2007       05-03-2010, 5:19 PM Reply   
I was a temp then an 18/8. I did everything from Hot Shot squad leader and an AFEO in the Forest Service. My advice is choose the one that you really want to do. I chose to leave because I didn't want to become my boss's. I worked with a ton of ex military guys. So the USFS will always be there. Even if that's what you decide to do for a living when you get out of the Army. It's your life. You tell them what you want to do. You haven't signed a thing yet. The apprentice program is a bit sketchy. I went to the basic and advanced academy with a lot of JAC's. I was lucky enough to go straight to permanent. I miss the experiences in the FS but if I was in your shoes and if you truely want to serve, then I'd do the Army now and when you get out you have a lot more options (GI bill) and the FS give veteran preference so you might not even have to be an apprentice. For every permanent they hire they have to interview a couple veterans. I beat out a couple that's how I know. Good Luck. Either way I respect you for serving others in any capacity.
Old     (bendow)      Join Date: Sep 2005       05-03-2010, 6:06 PM Reply   
Being an Air Force Vet...I say go talk to an AF recruiter.
Old     (bac)      Join Date: Feb 2008       05-03-2010, 7:20 PM Reply   
With the amount of time involved in putting someone into the service, IMO you will be hard pressed to find any recruiter who will let you do what you're looking to do. I spent alot of time with my recruiter and he spent alot of time working on all my paperwork. Its not just a matter of filling out a few pieces of paper. It will require leg work on both ends. Also, not sure how things are now, but I attempted to go into the Marine Corps last year but was DQ'd and recommended for a waiver/2nd opinion for hearing loss, and what normally (So I'm told) would have been a guaranteed waiver, was denied because the Marines were already past their quotas, as was every other branch, allowing them to be as selective as they chose. \

I don't think your recruiter is missing the point for the most part, as there is no option for "oh let me sign up now but I may decide not to later if this job works out." In my opinion, and most likely what your recruiter is thinking, if you want to join the military, join the military and get to boot. If not, do the forestry thing and see what happens. Not to mention at 21, you will still be within the age limit to enlist in any branch if the forestry thing doesn't wotk out
Old     (bmr82)      Join Date: Jul 2008       05-04-2010, 4:39 AM Reply   
GO talk to the Marines. You'll thank me later.
Old     (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       05-04-2010, 9:48 AM Reply   
Being a Navy vet and having experience with recruiters, the recruiter is not going to listen to anything, but if you are joining or not. They really don't have time to set the process in motion if your are not willing to commit to enlisting. Let me explain why. Recruiters are mandated to meet a certain quota of enlistees each month. If they miss their quota, this reflects on their evaluation which affects their promotion opportunities. If they miss their quota (I'm not 100% sure of the exact length of time) say three months in a row, they are sent back to the field or sea duty, depending on the branch, with a tarnished service record. This is why many recruiters "stretch the truth". It is similar to a car salesman conveying to a person why brand A is so much better than brand B when in essence they are the same car. I'm not bashing recruiters, but it is truly a dog-eat-dog world in the recruiting field, and some recruiters result to lying to get people to enlist. Recruiters invest a lot of time in a new recruit so that is why they seem so forward and pushy in your dealings with them. If you are not almost certain you are not going to enlist, it is better to go ahead and tell the recruiter so he can focus his efforts towards someone else.

For the most part, having things in writing is not going to help you. Yes, you want it in your contract what rate or MOS you are going to enter. If you are entering at a higher pay grade. You want the length of your enlistment. And you want the things like the GI Bill (you have to reverify this at boot camp) or other tuition reimbursements. But if your recruiter says "You are going to have every weekend off", having this is writing is not going to matter (nor do I think any recruiter would put this in writing, but they may definitely tell you this). Recruiters almost certainly can not tell you where your duty station will be or when your first deployment will be.

That being said, I would visit every branch and see what they have to offer. I did that and the Navy seemed like the best fit for me. Talk to someone that is in that particular branch (NOT THE RECRUITER!!!) and see what life is like on the inside. GI Bill is a big plus and if I had to do it over again would be enough incentive for me to enlist for 4 years. There are going to be things about any branch that are good, but there will also be things that downright suck (the recruiters generally withhold the latter). If you have any questions about the Navy, I would be more than happy to answer them for you.
Old     (richnnorcal)      Join Date: Mar 2008       05-05-2010, 2:14 PM Reply   
Kyle, I was also in the Navy for 10yrs and I spent part of my time at a (MEPS). Military Entrance Processsing Station. The real quick and dirty, Each month a recruiter must sign up at least one to two qualified bodies, this consists of passing the ASVAB. its the Armed Forces Vocational Aptitude Battery Test. Depending on how well you do on it, will determine what Job you will be offered. However be very careful on what they tell you! The Army plus all the other branches of service have thier needs as well. They need to have certain positions filled due to people getting out or retireing.
I have seen people score highly on the ASVAB test, thinking that they were going to receive a job in Computers only to be given a lower class position. Make sure you get everything in writing. Also, forget that stuff about being ready, they can fast track you into the service via Same day processing, test, physical, security exam, ship you out to basic training. If it was me I would pick the Air Force, closest thing to a civillian. The AF only takes applicants with a 45 to a 50 AFQT score from the ASVAB. The Army on the other hand will lower its min score at the end of the month to make quota..if you have any questions shoot me a PM....
Old     (dabell)      Join Date: Apr 2007       05-05-2010, 7:04 PM Reply   
Originally Posted by bmr82 View Post
GO talk to the Marines. You'll thank me later.
I agree

Semper Fidelis
Always Faithful
Old     (boomboom)      Join Date: Apr 2008       05-06-2010, 3:31 PM Reply   
Something else to consider is that, depending on your state, you may be able to get 4 years of state college absolutely free. In addition you can shoose to use your GI bill (currently $1100/month for full time students) or defer it and use it for grad school after doing your bachelors.

Something to think about..... free college is pretty damn killer. You'll have to check on it depending where you live.
Old     (bendow)      Join Date: Sep 2005       05-06-2010, 5:48 PM Reply   
I'm going to college? Try getting paid to go to college.

The new GI bill pays 100% tuition and books for any school...on top of that they pay you housing allowance of E5 with dependent pay. I'm also in the air guard now which throws in a $350 kicker and 100% TA.

So here's the breakdown for me
Housing allowance $1240
Guard Kicker $350
Guard TA $400 per month (average)

So about $2k a month that I keep with school 100% paid for.
Old     (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       05-07-2010, 4:30 AM Reply   
So true Benjamin.

I am going to school on the GI Bill and Navy College Fund. Tuition at the university I attend is ~2800.00 per semester. I receive 1900.00 per month (pre-911 GI Bill) as long as I am a full-time student. A couple of monthly payments from the VA and my tuition, books, etc. are paid for and the rest is mine to use as I choose. The post-911 GI Bill gives you even more.
Old     (mastercraft1995)      Join Date: Nov 2002       05-07-2010, 10:23 AM Reply   
Go in the AirForce problem solved.
Old     (bendow)      Join Date: Sep 2005       05-07-2010, 10:38 AM Reply   
Originally Posted by mastercraft1995 View Post
Go in the AirForce problem solved.
I concur. The AF gave me a great start to adulthood.

When I was in the AF I would often see people who crossed from other branches into the AF, mostly coming from Marines and Army. Only 1 time did I ever hear of a person leaving the AF for another branch....if that tells you anything.
Old     (bg__dereks_mom)      Join Date: Aug 2009       05-07-2010, 1:46 PM Reply   
I saw on my facebook page that you are heading out to Spring Ride today. When you see Derek ask him about The ASVAB He has some books you can borrow to study. he has recently Talked to a Navy recruiter, and has been studying
Old     (mac_attack)      Join Date: Oct 2003       05-07-2010, 9:29 PM Reply   
Part time sounds like a good path for you. I would seriously consider the air national guard.


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