Petition for Perfect Pass

I think that We should start a petition to have perfect pass lower their prices. Basic economics states that at a certain price a certain amount of people will buy your product. at a high price only a few buy, at a low price many buy... The point is if the perfect passes were around $500 I would totally spring on one, but at $1300 I can just deal with the sketchy throttle.

It's looking like they will eventually loose the Mastercraft account (or a significant portion of it) now that MC has developed their own speed control system. If others do the same, they will have to lower prices to stay competitive I would think.

They have been over $1000 as long as I know and I have have been buying PerfectPass units in my boats since 1997. I do not think they will bow down to a petition. They already sell tons of units.

I think I'd like to add that this is a very high tech piece of equipment (basically a computer), that isn't used all that much in terms of the overall economy. It's not like we're dealing with Dell who can sell computers for $299.

Between the R&D, Production costs, over head costs, warranties, these are priced very reasonably.

I was kind of joking, but I would love to see the price drop. What does the PP consist of? why is it so expensive. I can guarantee that a stand alone computer for your car is under $800 and that manages ari/fuel, ignition timing, boost and a myriad of other things. Dell is only cheap because they have become the wal-mart of computers. A typical "good" computer is still $1,500 which is way more involved than I would assume a PP is, so again, why the price?

The size probably has a lot to do with it and the programming as well. I know I always get Digital Pro because it comes with more stuff for the same price as Wakeboard Pro. If you look how PerfectPass works using that little servo on the engine and the paddle wheel it is really quite cool.

I bet you could get the PerfectPass Wakeboard Cruise system under $1000.

I have a 91 four winns 170 freedom with a 4 cyl carborated (sp?) ford. I dont even know if there is one that can fit, but even $1000 is too much for me. I still have school and all the expenses with that, which is why the original post. I think my limit would be $700. So if anybody knows of somebody getting rid of one, please let me know.

Also, I would be interested in knowing how these things work, can somebody please give a good description?

Economics man...people are paying 1300 and there selling the ones they make, probably at a healthy profit. Why lower your price. For what it's worth I deal with the sketchy throtle myself.

Mark, first of all, perfect pass does not make a system for your boat. They make it for all Inboard companies, and I think two or three I/O boats (Cobalt is one).

Here's how it works. There is of course the display the user sees, this is a very minor part of the system. The most important part is the computer system. This is a box about 8x6" that mounts up under the bow of the boat. PP has written their own program for this computer that calculates many factors to derive a speed. This speed is governed by a servo-motor that attached to the engine. This controls the speed of the boat.

There are 2 different ways PP adjusts the speed. RPM based (slalom & Jump), and Paddle wheel (wakeboard + trick skiing).

RPM - We'll use a slalom course as an example. The user sets the skiers parameters (skier desired speed, skier weight, wind direction and how hard the wind is blowing, weight of crew). These are the basics. The driver pulls the skier through the slalom course (which is based on times. i.e. 36 mph skier should take 16.08 seconds). At the end of the pull, perfect pass displays the actual time the pass took (there are acceptable numbers.) The driver reviews the time and makes sure they are not fast or slow. If they are, the driver adjusts the RPM's. You might ask how the PP knows the times. Well, under the slalom course buoys in the water, there are magnets attached. There is a sensor attached to the PP computer that picks up the magnets and computes this into the pull. VERY COMPLEX!!!!

One final aspect is "The switch" is a contraption that attaches to the pylon that when the skier pulls hard enough, the switch is opened, and the boat actually applies more throttle to compensate for the skier pull. Even more complex! Of course the computer decides how much more power to give. All this just for skiing. (Digital Pro version of PP)

2.) Thru hull paddle wheel. Just as it sounds, you drill a hole in your hull and insert this paddle wheel where water passes through. A wire from this paddle wheel is attached to the PP computer that has been programmed to adjust engine RPM's to get an exact MPH within .2. Pretty neat stuff. Of course you can add many factors to this such as ballast weight and its all the more the computer has to 'think' about.

So to answer your question, like any computer, PP computes several different factors to obtain the desired speed of the skier/rider.

Because of all its capabilites, this is why 99% of skiers/riders will say its the very first accessory that should be added to a boat. It is really worth every penny.

Economics wise they are probably at the right price point considering the limited size of the market...ie. boat owners, primarily inboard boat owners, who are serious about keeping their speed within .25/mph as opposed to 2-5 mph with a poor driver.

I agree...competition is the only thing that will help lower the price. I hope that happens, because I have so far declined to pay $1200 for it.

They used to have competition a couple years ago with AccuSki but of course with all the manufactuers offering PerfectPass and not AccuSki they could not stay in business. I rode behind a Mastercraft with AccuSki and it was so smooth! Do not get me wrong I love PerfectPass and it the first option I get on my boats (I call it my relationship saver) but BT is right. Competition is the only thing that will bring the price down.

Can perfect pass be installed on older boats. such as the 2001 series nautiques?

Ask perfect pass. They can tell you if installation on your boat is possible and if people have had problems making them work right.

I'm with you Mark - I haven't sprung for one yet. I can't justify the expense and I'm pretty comfortable keeping a constant speed since I've been doing it for so long and before this product was introduced. I'm hoping what J-Rod said, about the competition from MC, comes to fruition though.

I look at the bright side - My girl is a great driver now because she learned to keep speed without it also.

For what its worth to you Mark I bought a used PP system (Digital Pro) a few years ago from a guy who was selling his boat for $700 and all I had to do was spend the $50 to upgrade the chip to the newest software... So used systems are out there, and mine has worked flawlessly since I installed it...

Keep your eyes out for used systems... Hardly are they abused or broken and you can find them on Ebay or Ski-it-again.com sometimes...

Good luck

"my girl is a great driver now because she learned to keep speed without it also."

Make that girl your wife!!!

Although PP doesn't market for your boat, in theory it should work fine behind your 4Wins and most definitely would work in a Ski Nautique 2001. You would have to set your trim manually, but other than that PP should take care of all the throttle work. There's nothing about PP that requires your boat to be a newer inboard, or a V8 to function properly.

Obviously you should check first with PP with regards to its operation on your specific boat, especially with initial installation as I'm sure your 4Wins model isn't included in the instructions.

I'm in total agreement it was the best $$ I've spent on my boat, hands down.

(Message edited by superairdawg on June 09, 2005)

If you do...be careful because yyou may have to install a paddle wheel because those old Nautiques have Air Guide Speedos. Maybe PP makes something for the Air Guides?

On the other hand. I installed on my 2001 Wakesetter and speed mode NEVER worked right. They have a list of problematic boats. Be sure to check. If the paddle wheel can't get a clear signal, you flushed a grand down the ••••••••

Supply and Demand!!!

Basic Economics!!!!

If they could not sell them at a $1300 price point , they would then lower the price.

Old Nautiques? Did CC finally decide to give up on the pitot tubes?

She is J-Rod - calling her "my girl" makes me feel younger. lol

Hah...I do the same.

Hmmm...is Nautique still using Air Guides? I am shocked if they are. I remember what a pain in the ass those were.

yes you can use these on your four winns. it is well worth the price. pretty much any ole schmuck can drive a boat with perfect pass and you will get a good pull.

I'm sure the Economics of it is just about right. They have to take into consideration all fixed and variable costs and then maximize profits by finding the right output quantity where marginal costs equal marginal revenue. It's not just a function of supply and demand, but profit maximization based on current market pressures. Sure they could arbitrarily lower the cost, but what would be their incentive to do so? At this point the only thing that will lower the price is reducing marginal costs; ie. pay lower wages to their workers, become more efficient or costs of raw materials decrease.

That all being said, I wish I could afford a PP.