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Old     (snyder)      Join Date: Feb 2006       04-27-2012, 9:11 AM Reply   
I know some folks here have done Paleo diets, which I guess is similar in principle.
I came across this guy's blog last night and it's quite an interesting concept.

I've always been of the "more frequent small meals" mantra, but when you dig into this, it really sounds more like how our bodies were designed to work.
For those not familiar, the basic concept is you periodically go 16-24 (or in some cases longer) on a fast. meaning, no calories. Just water/tea/black coffee.

from his blog:

"There is an increasing amount of studies being done on fasting. The results are starting to compile and short-term intermittent fasting has been found to have the following health and fitness benefits:
Decreased body fat & body weight
Maintenance of skeletal muscle mass (you won't lose muscle: bodybuilding gym-bros claims=false)
Decreased blood glucose levels
Decreased insulin levels & increased insulin sensitivity
Increased lipolysis & fat oxidation (which leads to ABS )
Increased Uncoupling Protein 3 mRNA
Increased norepinephrine & epinephrine levels (more energy and 'awakeness')
Increased Glucagon levels
Increased growth hormone levels"

Basically what he does is he fasts from 9pm until after his next day workout around noon. This gives him 16 hrs of fasting and his biggest meal is right after workout. It also means he's working out in a fasted state, but says he actually performs better. He's been doing it for well over a year now.

I'm gonna try it. I've hit a plateau on my fat loss and have a pudge and love handles that are stubbornly hanging on... I'm gaining strength and muscle still, but the fat loss has stopped.

any thoughts?
Old     (Michael)      Join Date: Mar 2010       04-27-2012, 9:29 AM Reply   
Have you reevaluated your diet before you go as drastic as fasting?? In my opinion it will be bad for you. Im worried that the food you do ingest will go directly to fat. Basically your body stores it for later because it doesn't know when it will get food again. But hey im no nutritionist.
Old     (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       04-27-2012, 9:39 AM Reply   
The body will start cutting muscle mass because it requires more calories to maintain than any other tissue. During fasting or any calorie deficit, the central nervous system will begin cut muscle and consume it for energy. Your body sees muscle is a liability when your short on calories.
Old     (snyder)      Join Date: Feb 2006       04-27-2012, 9:44 AM Reply   
Here's a sample of what I eat daily. Weekends are a bit different because we're usually on the go, but I'm generally good then too.

6 egg white omelet w/pico and about 2 oz grilled chicken
1 slice whole wheat toast. sometimes a little butter sometimes dry
about 16 oz water.

protein bar

workout m/t/th/f

Protein/Creatine drink immediately after workout

around 1-2pm:
mixed salad w/dried cranberries and pecans (no dressing)
4-5 oz grilled chicken
16 oz water

1/2 cup low fat cottage cheese w/a few cranberries (plain cottage cheese sux)

typically something decent like grilled salmon and steamed broccoli or asparagus.
sometimes not as healthy but I'll restrict the portions (my wife usually cooks dinner and she's preparing for 3 boys who won't exactly eat grilled salmon and asparagus.

my historical downfall has been sugar in my coffee in the morning... I've cut that out about 2 months ago. and to not eat past 8pm.

my diet is usually really good, sometimes pretty good, and a few times crappy (we all slip up now and then).

I've had good progress toward my goals, but just seems lately that the fat loss has stalled.
If you think about the periodic fasting the way this guy does (i think it's similar to a program called "lean gains") it's not severe. You just stop eating at 9pm, and extend it thru noon the next day. and timing it so that you break the fast right after a work out goes w/the logic that, that's when you're body's most receptive to properly use the calories rather than store them.
Old     (bcrider)      Join Date: Apr 2006       04-27-2012, 9:59 AM Reply   
Your diet doesn't look bad. When trying to lean out cardio and diet are everything and more so diet. I've come to the realization that I will never show a six pack as I have a pretty good diet monday to friday it's just those damn beers that I love so much on the weekend and I know I am bad more for my portion size than what I am eatting. Not eatting after a certain time is a myth. As long as you don't exceed your calorie intake for a day it doesn't matter when you eat. You may also want to consider lower weights and higher reps for more of a cardio type workout. Don't tell anyone but I found the Insanity workout on a torrent site which I am going to try. Saved myself $ 200.00.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       04-27-2012, 11:34 AM Reply   
I recently started juicing veggies and leaned down fast without even trying. I drink about a quart a day of veggies. After I juice them I take about 15-20% of the ejected pulp and blend it back into the juice with the blender.
Old     (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       04-27-2012, 11:36 AM Reply   
"Not eatting after a certain time is a myth. As long as you don't exceed your calorie intake for a day it doesn't matter when you eat. "

I disagree with you on that one. Unless you just left the gym and your metabolic rate is still high, or unless you are hitting the gym late after your meal, most of that food that you consume late night will remain unprocessed / metabolized. I suggest this because typically after the 8-9 pm meal, most people will find themselves on the couch, or in bed, where energy demands are very low, non-existent really. So now you have a gut full of food, and no energy is needed from it.

Most of your daily calories should be consumed while energy demands are high (during the day while you're on the move). Ideally, you would drop your weights and walk over to the dinner table and begin eating before your sweat even dries. This is when your metabolic rate is highest, and your food is least likely to be stored for later......turned to fat.

I'm a firm believer in small dinners eaten early, and drawing the line at about 7PM if your evenings are sedentary like most, and you're hitting the sack around 10. If you're hitting the gym in close proximity to your late meal, then it's a different story.
Old     (sippi)      Join Date: Dec 2007       04-27-2012, 11:57 AM Reply   
man the bottom the line is, if you want to try it, try it. just keep an eye on things. but yea i agree with dave here. back when i played soccer in college, i could eat whatever i wanted to and still lose weight because i was training so hard, when i stopped, i kept eating and that was the biggest downfall. i'm losing it all now, well getting there by eating right, small portions many times throughout the day, running in the mornings and just started doing crossfit in the afternoons, and a couple times a week i'll go play indoor soccer. Been on this schedule for a couple of weeks and i can tell you that my pants don't fit anymore and my belt is on its last notch. and i have kids too. so i get up and run before anyone in the house is awake, and just take about an hour afterwork to work out. when i go play indoor soccer its usually around 8-9 so kids are getting in bed then anyway. some mornings after i play soccer i will skip the run though as i'm sore as can be, but i'm working up to doing it every morning. seems to be working though.

good luck with it, just don't give up and get to running man. i have found that running alone is good for you but things like crossfit, p90x, insanity, or things like that do more for you as you are building muscle and burning fat at the same time.
Old     (digg311)      Join Date: Sep 2007       04-27-2012, 12:10 PM Reply   
I'm a fat guy with almost no metabolism, so I'm probably not a good example... but I can say that a lot of the time it's a total chore for me to eat. I'm rarely hungry. I try and stick to small meals, but that doesn't make much difference. My wife HATES it, because she gets hungry like a normal human... and when she does, it's NEED FOOD NOW, or she gets nauseous.
I don't think I would have much of a problem with an intermittent fast, but I really couldn't guess what it would do to me. I mean, my body is SUPER efficient at storing fat. I'm a guy who plays softball once a week, basketball twice a week, wakeboards, snowboards and regularly hits the gym (mostly cardio)... and STILL manages to hover around 280 (at 6'0")... if any of those factors change, I can rocket up to 330 or so.

Because of my work schedule, I get home around 7 PM, spend what time I can with my wife and kid... then she sacks out around 9:30 or so (she's pregnant) and I hit the gym. Because I can't stand to eat before the gym, I typically eat when I get back... but that's at around 11:30 or midnight and then it's straight to bed. I'm betting that even after the WO, a bunch of those calories aren't getting efficiently burned.

2 years ago, before our fist child, I lost 80 lbs... got down to 248. The only difference in my lifestyle and diet was that I was working out at 6:30 or so after work and eating at 8. Seriously, no appreciable difference in intake... just timing... and I've gained back 40+.

I don't know what any of this means, so I'm no help to anybody. Just joining the conversation.
Old     (seth)      Join Date: Sep 2002       04-27-2012, 12:35 PM Reply   
How many grams of fat are you eating a day? It doesnt seem like very much from what you have written down. Your body needs the good fats and if youre not getting enough its going to hold onto what it can. I am no expert as well. My GF has crazy fitness/diet knowledge and has enlightened me as well as sites like I just try different things, but what it seems to always come back to is a well balanced protein, fat, carb daily caloric intake. Im the most fit/ripped ive been in my life at 30 and its from figureing out my diet. Like said above, it cant hurt to give it a shot.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       04-27-2012, 12:50 PM Reply   
Rich, I know what you mean about people "needing" to eat. My wife is the same way. When she gets hungry she'll get sick if she doesn't eat. I can go forever without eating. A few years back between my two marriages I'd eat breakfast, snack on gummy bears and pistachios during the day, then go wakeboarding after work and be too tired to eat anything afterwards.

Fixing food is too much trouble for me. I'm not a food person at all. Don't enjoy spending money on eating out. My main diet for dinner is cut up an onion, bell pepper, garlic, then saute it in olive oil along with a few chicken tenderloins. Laziness is probably why I got hooked on the juicing. Even though it's a bit of work every other day to juice a half gallon, it literally takes no thought or planning and I know I'm getting a healthy dose of veggies.
Old     (snyder)      Join Date: Feb 2006       04-27-2012, 3:50 PM Reply   
So im assuming no one has done "Eat, Stop, Eat", "Warrior Diet" , or "Lean Gain"?
yes, i know this flies in the face of convemtional wisdom, but there's enough evidence out there that it apparently works. i'll keep y'all posted of the results.
I'm thinking about doing a 16 hr fast every other day. Just to see if i see any appreciable results.
By the way, you're not really starving yourself. And it's not the same thing as a CR(calorie restricted) diet.
I started it today. Didn't eat anything from dinner last night until after my workout today (noon). Just water coffee and green tea. It wasn't hard, my workout was fine (30 mins HIIT), felt okay.
We'll see. This is probably how our ancestors ate anyway.
Old     (bcrider)      Join Date: Apr 2006       04-27-2012, 4:29 PM Reply   
Jarrod, I'm not disagreeing that you won't probably burn more when you are moving around during the day. Here are some articles about it:
Old     (rmotoxxx711)      Join Date: Oct 2008       04-27-2012, 5:19 PM Reply   
Yea unforutnately this miraculously worked for one guy he claims, but it's bogus and more work than its worth, and not good to stop you metabolic rate like that

I walk around at under 10% body fat 365 days a year. 5'9" 165lbs and ifyou want to cut down and stay lean download a calorie counter and work your ass off at the gym or do "insane work out" and only consume 1500 cal or 1750 at max
Old     (irishrider92)      Join Date: Jun 2009       04-29-2012, 6:38 AM Reply   
I've been trying it for 16 hours on weekdays just until my exams are over since I can't afford the time for the gym. It feels like its working in helping me keep my weight down plus it makes it easier for me to only eat 1800ish calories. I don't really feel hungry til maybe 11ish and at that time I'm usually in a lecture. I allow myself black coffee any time just to have something in the morning. That's just my schedule though cos I'm in uni early and home late mostly so I don't get dinner til about 8/9. If I had a different schedule I think I would go from 5pm to 9am that could be easier to keep up. It just means having an early dinner and then eating at 9, 1 and 4/5.

In summer and mostly for june I'm going to try to up it to 20hours fasting along with lots of cardio to try shed this lump of fat I've had for the past couple years now. Then around mid july/august I'll start eating more and doing weights to try put on more muscle. I can't wakeboard at all this summer so I figured I'll just do this instead.

Anyways for now back to study!
Old     (mbellaver)      Join Date: Oct 2009       04-30-2012, 7:05 AM Reply   
Intermittent Fasting works. Plenty of people have been able to maintain muscle mass while loosing fat on this eating style. I follow Jaon Ferrugia's Renegade Diet and love it. I structure my fast so that my eating window starts after my workout. Will it work for everyone? Probably not. Does it work for me? Hell yes! First time I've ever gotten stronger on a diet.
Old     (acurtis_ttu)      Join Date: May 2004       04-30-2012, 8:15 AM Reply   
Technically, I fast every nite from about 7 till 7 the next morning...weekends may be a tad diff...but my eating schedule is fairly routine.

I've been really focused on my macro requirements for the day ( for the last 4-5 years. Like a previous poster mentioned...good dietary fats are a critical part of my diet. My calories usually fall into place. I've been able to maintain sub 10% body fat ( bod pod measurement--usually 7-9%) for the last 5-6 years.I'm now almost 36. I've found the calipers to be very inaccurate with lower body fat.
Old     (jeff_mn)      Join Date: Jul 2009       04-30-2012, 8:51 AM Reply   
I did it. Loved it. Felt great, lost some weight, didn't change my lifestyle or eating habits must. I recommend it.
Old     (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       04-30-2012, 3:10 PM Reply   
"I walk around at under 10% body fat 365 days a year. 5'9" 165lbs and ifyou want to cut down and stay lean download a calorie counter and work your ass off at the gym or do "insane work out" and only consume 1500 cal or 1750 at max "

Counting calories doesn't work for everyone. Hormone's play a larger roll in your physique than anything else. I've seen people bust their asses and starve themselves with little progress.
Old     (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       04-30-2012, 3:17 PM Reply   
Dave. Those studies were done on monkeys.

It's a fact that your metabolic rate speeds up along with energy demand. And I think everyone would agree that it takes more energy to be up and moving around then it does to sleep. I don't know, it would be pretty hard to convince me otherwise.
Old     (augie_09)      Join Date: Mar 2011       04-30-2012, 3:59 PM Reply   
I have gone almost 4 full days without food, but not as a diet. Had a throat infection and was insanely painful to swallow, but otherwise was perfectly healthy. Actually wakeboarded every day during it.

I can say the first 24 hours sucked, my stomach hurt a ton, but then I just wasn't hungry anymore and it didn't bother me and when I could eat again on day 5, I didn't really even want to so I at really small amounts.
Old     (norcalrider)      Join Date: Jun 2002       04-30-2012, 4:04 PM Reply   
Packed on the pounds when I started this job 2+ years ago. New Years reso to drop the weight. Been seeing good results with this method and has improved my portion control all around.
Old     (bruizza)      Join Date: May 2009       04-30-2012, 6:41 PM Reply   
Pound I started this diet in January and coupled with exercise have lost 25lbs and 5.5 inches off my waist. The author has a few other programs out there based off this same concept and every so often they involve fasting for a day. Best $13 I have ever spent. My bro has also been on the diet and has exercised intermittently and lost about 30lbs since January. Best part is I have never once been hungry on this diet. Makes it so easy to follow.
Old     (snyder)      Join Date: Feb 2006       05-01-2012, 9:10 AM Reply   
It's great to hear the good feedback on this. most people hear the word "fasting" and dismiss it at that.
I've done it less than a week, so too early to really tell anything yet. But so far so good. I did take before pics and I'll see if there's any change in a month or two. Right now I'm about 184. (5'10") and at approx 16% bf. my waist is about 35". If I could get down to 12% or lower and stay above 180 I'd be ecstatic.

Here's my plan:
Every Other Day (mon/wed/fri/sun) I'll try to get 16-18 hrs fasting in up to 1pm when I finish my workout (fasted workout). Meaning, stop eating around 5-7pm the night before.
Then eat good clean hi protein meal.
Continue to consume about 2k calories the rest of the day tapering down the calories.
The only thing I'm not doing now that I'll start soon is taking BCAA's shortly before the workout.
My gym routine is basically a low rep/high weight split 4 days a week w/some HIIT on Wednesdays.

I know when you really analyze this, it's kinda just simply fewer calories = weight loss. But I'm not really trying to lose weight, just fat... I know this means adding muscle while burning fat in order to maintain, but legacy knowledge says you can't effectively cut and grow at the same time. That's why I want to try this, because supposedly you can.
Also, I think my body has adjusted to the constant flow of food w/the 6 meals a day mantra so if this does nothing more than get me thru a plateau w/this stubborn +40 y/o mid-section fat, then I'm good to go w/it.
So far it hasn't been hard. In fact, I do get slight hunger pangs but I know that this means good things not bad things like I used to. You kinda welcome them. It's sorta like the pain of soreness after a good workout... good pain. and a cup of green tea usually takes the edge off. Then when I'm in the gym, they're gone, and I have just as much energy as a normal day (keep in mind again, I've only worked out in a fasted state twice).
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       05-01-2012, 11:38 AM Reply   
Fasting always makes me hungry.

I have a hard enough time preping for 3 meals a day. Anything that takes more time/effort becomes too difficult to continue for any length of time, turns into a "diet" as in temporary. Simple works...Eat less, move more.
Old     (jhartt3)      Join Date: Jan 2012       05-01-2012, 11:53 AM Reply   
I typically work out and do insanity in the morning at 5am. Usually at this time i havent eaten since dinner the night before. I dont eat breakfast. I usually have a glass of OJ but thats it. Then i eat at 1130am the next day. it leads to good weight loss and you can eat whatever you want for the most part. Although i still eat relatively healthy food.
Old     (snyder)      Join Date: Feb 2006       05-04-2012, 1:35 PM Reply   
Mik (norcalrider), that's an awesome paper. good find. thanks. I'm pretty much doing what he did when he was gaining weight, not losing (which was his goal) except i'm fasting every other day not every day. I've not tried a full day of fasting yet either. I think that's a bit too much for my goals. I'm trying to gain lean weight while losing fat at the same time.

Only 1 week in and I swear I can see/feel results. I'll keep y'all posted of my progress w/some hard numbers. maybe even before/after pics.


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