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Old    Harold (wikd281)      Join Date: May 2002       01-26-2006, 5:37 PM Reply   
My brother has a 1998 Reinell 22' boat that he hasnt taken out since he bought it. Why....I guess he ran out of money?
Its a chevy 350 and its carburated. Any idea where we should start to clean out the fuel that has gone bad? I havent see the boat at this point since it was new...so I have no idea what it currently looks like- I am hoping the fuel has not shallacked or gelled up but I think it has. I guess I should take off the carb. and empty the tank. What else?
thanks for any help!
Old    Ben (schackdaddy)      Join Date: Dec 2005       01-26-2006, 5:57 PM Reply   
Change out all the fuel lines, get a new carb(I recommend a Barry Grant Demon) and clean the fuel tank.
Old    Harold (wikd281)      Join Date: May 2002       01-26-2006, 6:16 PM Reply   
ok. Thats one way of doing it! Thanks for the reply. Is there anything that might turn the gelled up fuel back to a liquid?? It would be nice to put a solution into the lines and then have it all bleed out. I guess it couldnt be that easy? haha. What a nightmare for him!
Old    walt            01-26-2006, 6:30 PM Reply   
I'd drain the gas out and change the fuel filter and H20 separator if it has one then re-fill it with fresh gas and give it a go.

Draining the gas out of the float bowls might be a good idea too.

I've seen a boat fire right up after four years of sitting and run just fine to my amazement.
The guy didn't even change the gas out.

Your carb gaskets may of dried out so look for leaks if it does start.
Old    Peter_C (peter_c)      Join Date: Sep 2001       01-26-2006, 6:56 PM Reply   
I bought a car that had sat with a full tank of gas in SF for eight years. Guess what?? I primed the oil system, changed the battery, put air in the tires that were completely flat and drove the sucker home!

If the tank was stored full it may run with the fuel in it. To get rid of bad fuel costs over $300. Just ask Evergreen or Safety Kleen. So hopefully it can still be used. The nose knows!

Do not replace the carb, that motor was designed to run with that carb. He will be fighting it from then on. Personally I would just fire it up and see how it does. Smelling the fuel in the tank will give you an idea of it's condition. If needed have the carb rebuilt. Fuel lines are easily inspected for cracking. Tug, twist, bend, and pull on them too.
Old    erlingiii            01-26-2006, 7:04 PM Reply   
if your looking for a way to get rid of the gas i would recomend mixing it with styrofoam and making napalm. Its always fun to play with
Old    Harold (wikd281)      Join Date: May 2002       01-26-2006, 7:29 PM Reply   
Great ideas guys! Thanks for all the input!
I will be trying to get the boat running again on Sat. We will see how California gas holds up. Is there a difference in our gas than other areas that will help me.. like MTB or something like that?
Old    Mikeski (mikeski)      Join Date: Aug 2003       01-26-2006, 8:13 PM Reply   
Harold,

I am a fan of determing if something is bad before replacing. You can probably pull a float bowl off the carb and see what the gas looks like, same with the lines, filters, and pump. Start at the Carb and work backwards toward the tank. Like Peter I have bought junky old cars and revived them fairly easily. Since our climate is mild it's less likely that the fuel is gelled.
Old    slidr_ridr            01-26-2006, 8:51 PM Reply   
Running bad fuel through a carburetor can cause expensive problems. I wouldn’t risk it with bad fuel. Empty the fuel tank first as best possible. Check the carburetor, if it has drains on the bowls, drain them. It would be a good idea to change fuel filters and water separator filters as well. Refill the fuel tank with high octane fuel for the first run. Use the old fuel you removed by putting it into the boat on the next tank of fuel, or your car/truck, a little at a time. You should reasonably be able to use about 4 gallons of old fuel to each 20 gallons of new fuel.
Old    Machew (mbrown)      Join Date: May 2005       01-26-2006, 9:07 PM Reply   
Run a can of this through it, it's no regular fuel system cleaner!
It's like Benny Hinn for cars and boats, carbs and injectors.


(Message edited by Mbrown on January 26, 2006)
Old    Peter_C (peter_c)      Join Date: Sep 2001       01-26-2006, 9:09 PM Reply   
Curious to know what kind of "expensive problems" could be caused by running bad fuel through an old carb?

Now putting bad fuel into a new car could definitely cause "expensive problems".

Edit: As to the BG 44k there are two trains of thought. Some say it works great to clean out the fuel system, yet others say why loosen all the crap in the tank, right on through to the fuel filter and send it through the injectors or carb??

(Message edited by Peter_C on January 26, 2006)
Old    Mike (shortman)      Join Date: Jan 2006       01-26-2006, 9:25 PM Reply   
Went thru "old fuel"/"been parked" problems with last boat. Do not turn it over until you at least squirt a little 30W oil into all of the cylinders. Change plugs, fuel filter, and fuel water separater. I took an electric fuel pump, pumped out all of the gas into 5 gal gans. Replaced with 5 gals of aviation grade 100LL, and 20 gals of fresh reg unleaded. Used the old gas (mixed) in my lawn mower/generator. I bought an aftermarket carb, then ended up going back to the original(rebuilt). My 2 cents.
Old    Mike (shortman)      Join Date: Jan 2006       01-26-2006, 9:27 PM Reply   
BTW, nothing "fixes" old gas.
Old    Harold (wikd281)      Join Date: May 2002       01-26-2006, 9:49 PM Reply   
wow! This is a lot of information. Thanks very much!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I just took some notes down and if you guys can help me with some of the terminonology you are using. I am not a mechanic but like to learn about things all the time. Please forgive my ignorance. I am handy but havent torn apart a carberator before. I have a few questions:

1) If I take the top of the carb. apart- will the carb bowls be easy to find- near the top?

2) Any idea where the fuel seperator will be on a 98 Reinell with a Chevy 350?

3) If I pull out all 8 plugs- do I put the 30weight oil in the spark plug hole?


Thanks very much guys! I really appreciate your time and patience!
Old    Peter_C (peter_c)      Join Date: Sep 2001       01-26-2006, 9:57 PM Reply   
1: If it is a Holley carb the bowls are on the end. If it is a quadrajet then the top comes off and you better be prepared to deal with metering rods.
2: Many of those boats did not use a fuel/water separator as it was an option. My best guess would be somewhere between the fuel tank and the fuel pump You should be able to find some type of fuel filter in the back by the motor there.
3: You better use a lighter viscosity oil like WD40 or it will smoke for a long time. Just lightly fog it into each spark plug hole. While you have the plugs out disable the ignition or ground the coil wire and crank the engine over until you have oil pressure. That would also be right after changing the engine oil.

(Message edited by Peter_C on January 26, 2006)
Old    Harold (wikd281)      Join Date: May 2002       01-26-2006, 10:01 PM Reply   
:SALUTE TO YOU GUYS:
Thanks very much! I will print out this thread when I go on Sat. and see what I can do for this boat.
Any other suggestions?
Old    Nate (norcalmalibu)      Join Date: Jun 2004       01-27-2006, 1:05 AM Reply   
Also "Heat" additive help eliminate water in lines, if you pull the carb apart make sure you get the model number and buy new gaskets.. If its a Holley I reccomend the "trick kit" which has all the gaskets you need and a new power valve. Good luck, oh and bring starting fluid
Old    Ben (schackdaddy)      Join Date: Dec 2005       01-27-2006, 4:41 AM Reply   
I just hope your rings aren't siezed to the cylinder walls after 7 years of sitting with no running.
Old    slidr_ridr            01-27-2006, 6:43 AM Reply   
If you don't know what a carb bowl is, or where it is located, don't mess with the carb. If the carb that is currently in the boat is ok, yet you run bad gas through it, you can clog it up, requiring repair that is expensive if you have someone else do it. Even if you do it yourself, you will probably spend at least $40 for cleaners and a rebuild kit. It is far safer, and less expensive to simply remove as much of the old gas as possible first and replace it with high octane fuel.
Better yet, diconnect the fuel line from the carb and drain the fuel lines if reasonable. Change all the filters.
Change the engine oil, pull the spark plugs, remove the coil wire, spray WD40 into the spark plug holes, and spin the engine with the starter for about 30 seconds before trying to start it.
If you do all this, you have the best chance of starting the motor with no damage or other repairs.
Old    Peter_C (peter_c)      Join Date: Sep 2001       01-27-2006, 8:09 AM Reply   
A carb overhaul is expensive? Even with a labor rate of over $100 an hour you are only talking a couple of hundred dollars. Won't the fuel filter help protect the carb from contaminents? The carb already has dried gas in it, and will eventually need to be rebuilt.

So what do you do with the old gas? That would equate to a lot of gas for the lawn mower, which requires storing a stinky flamable liquid.

Now the question everyone forgot to ask "Was the boat stored indoors or out?" Makes a big difference for how much potential water could be in the fuel.
Old    Harold (wikd281)      Join Date: May 2002       01-27-2006, 9:55 AM Reply   
My dad and I will be working on the boat. I havent worked on a carb before but my dad has. He says that he knows exactly where to look for in the carb- one down- ten to go! The boat has been stored in the garage all its life. Practically brand new. Only has around 20 hours on it if that. Its a shame I know....but Im just trying to fix it.
Thanks!
Harold.
Old    Nate (norcalmalibu)      Join Date: Jun 2004       01-27-2006, 10:14 AM Reply   
well good luck, if you need any parts for the carb I would give boat masters 2 in dublin. They definitley know what there doing there and great guys.
Old    C.I.E..... Evan (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       01-27-2006, 12:01 PM Reply   
Hey, I'd be inclined to think that the fuel in the float bowls would have evaporated before causing any major problems.

My recomendations (I too have revived many a dead car and am a automotive tech):
1. Check fuel level and condition. If the fuel smells ok I'd top up the tank with fresh fuel. If not, then I'd still top it up with fresh fuel (a carbed motor will run on almost anything).
2. change the water seperator
3. change the fuel filter
4. disable ignition and crank until oil system is primed (once you see oil psi should be fine). This will also refill the float bowl provided your fuel pump hasn't failed.
5. then fire it up. Should be pretty straight forward, especially for a boat that was basically brand new before storing.

-now, just hope it was winterized or stored inside and it doesn't have any other damamge resulting from sitting around.

After you get the boat running you may want to replace the impeller and then go out and run some tanks of fuel through it. I'd also change the oil after you heat it up.
Old    Harold (wikd281)      Join Date: May 2002       01-27-2006, 12:19 PM Reply   
ok. I just talked to him and got some more information. Its a 1998 Reinell and its been in the garage ever since. It hasnt been ran since 1999. The boat was not winterized basically hasnt been touched. I am having him pick up a new: Impeller, water seperator, fuel filter, and pick up a fake a lake system (depending on cost), He doesnt have much money so hopeully these parts wont be too expensive. Shortly after he bought the boat his wife hurt her back and then the boat went on the back burner. I am hoping its not too late and thet the fuel is not that bad. We'll see Saturday!
thanks guys for all the help!
Harold.
Old    will c (wakemaniac69)      Join Date: Nov 2004       01-27-2006, 1:11 PM Reply   
PRIMING THE OIL PUMP - if you have ever had an engine sit for a couple of years, you will know that when you start to crank the engine, ALL BEARINGS ARE PROBABLY DRY!! Therefore, you have steel on steel grinding away until the oil pump primes itself and delivers oil to the bearing journals, lifters, timing chain, valve train and so on. It is very difficult to get these bearing surfaces lubricated without cranking the engine over. There is however a solution to this problem:

1. Determine the direction of rotation of your distributor by following the piston firing order and tracing the plug wires back to the distributor cap. Mark the direction of travel on the cap for later reference. Scribe a mark onto the distributor flange and intake manifold so you will know where to preplace it, this will help with reassembly. Turn you engine by hand to Top Dead Center (TDC) on piston #1.(compression stroke). You will have to remove plug #1 to determine the compression and hit TDC. DO NOT ROTATE THE ENGINE BACKWARDS! IF YOU PASS TDC ON #1, YOU HAVE TO ROTATE THE CRANK TWO(2) TURNS TO GET BACK THERE. If you rotate the engine backwards, you may cause a crankshaft bearing to rotate out of it's home position and it will sieze. There should be a timing mark on the harmonic balancer and a tab on the engine to line it up. This postioning is critical to replace the distributor. Remove the distributor, do not rotate the shaft. DO NOT ROTATE ENGINE CRANK.

2. Inspect the bottom of the distributor shaft to determine the shaft to pump engagement. This is usually like a blade(straight) screwdriver with a sleeve over it. measure the length of your distributor shaft and find a long screwdriver to match and remove the plastic handle, the shaft length should match the length of the distributor. Place the shaft into an air drill or electric drill, set the direction to match the direction of the Distributor, place the screwdriver end down into the engine and into the oil pump. Engage the screwdriver into the oil pump and slowly rotate the drill to prime the oil pump. You should install a sleeve onto the screwdrive so the blade doesn't come out of the pump engagment. Basically, the shaft end of the drill, should look like the end of you distributor. Rotate the drill at full speed for several minutes. This will cause the lube system to fill up and get oil to all the bearings on the crank, if you run it long enough, you will get oil up to the lifters.


3. Replace the distibutor and make certian you have timed the engine correctly. Prime you Carb and crank it. It should fire right up, run like crap because of the old fuel and varnish, however....the rest is easy.

I know this was a long and painful post, however, if I have an engine that has been dormant for a few years, it's worth the time and effort considering the replacement costs of Marine Engine, several thousand's of dollars.

Lastly, due to the time this motor has been sitting dormant, rust may have developed on the inside of the cylinder walls. You will find out right away when you start to run it. If corrosion is present, she's toast and it will only be a matter of time before the pistion rings desintgrate. ALWAYS FOG YOUR ENGINE FOR WINTERIZATION. This process helps reduce cylinder wall corrosion. Good luck guys, let us know how you make out with this one.
Old    ilovetrains            01-27-2006, 1:17 PM Reply   
Someone said crank it for 30 seconds. that is actually not a good idea under any circumstances. You will quickly burn out the starter. Plus a mechincal oil pump does not generate much pressure below 500 RPM, and most starters barely get to that RPM.

Best bet is to put some oil direct into each cylinder through the spark plug hole. then engage starter with coil wire removed and new plugs in place for 3-5 seconds. wait 30 sec or so and do it again. Wait a minute or two and continue this for about 10 cycles.

Odds are very good that engine will fire right up, and run fine. BTW - Sea Foam works great to clean out gunk like that in the fuel system.
Old    C.I.E..... Evan (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       01-27-2006, 5:12 PM Reply   

Will, I totally forgot about that trick..... Show's how often I work on Chevy's these days. All da' german stuff now-adays.

Anyway, good call but I don't think I'd advise it to someone that isn't familiar with timing a motor or finding TDC.
Old    will c (wakemaniac69)      Join Date: Nov 2004       01-27-2006, 7:17 PM Reply   
Hey C.I.E., I know, I posted it so everyone will be able to benifit from this trick. If they do not know how to RnR the distriburtor, or time the engine, at least they will know how to get the oil pump primed by a certified tech. If you explain the process to the tech and he's good with engines, he'll get'er done for ya. It's one of those `old mechanics' tricks we used when building engines. When we had them on the stand, we would prime the lube system this way. If you have the valve covers off, you can see when the valve train gets wet....at that point she's ready to go.
Old    Jerry Doyon (jzd)      Join Date: Jul 2005       01-29-2006, 7:41 PM Reply   
Well Harold ??????????????????
Old    Harold (wikd281)      Join Date: May 2002       01-29-2006, 8:19 PM Reply   
Well....I have some information for you guys.
We didnt get it running/ decided not to try. I checked the fuel tank and the fuel was yellow/ brownish color. It was only about 1/4 full. I didnt see any gelling at all. We checked the battery power and it has about 6 volts of power. At this point we thought about what we could do next and we decided to call the local dealer. They told us it would be around $400 to $500. Right then and there I said take the boat over there and dont think twice! For me it was an easy decision because I would have to spend all day trying to get that thing running. I was afraid to take apart the carb and/or try to find top dead center to oil the top of the motor. That was beyond what I can do mechanically. Other small things I can handle.
Sorry guys- no success story- but thanks very much for all your help.
I'll let you know what the dealer says and how much the bill ends up being.
Thanks!
Harold.

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