WARNING! Global Warming will ruin Wakeboarding

well im sure since al gore "invented" the internet then he may read this while hes flying on his private jet.... 30 years ago... the next ice age was on its way... now the earth is burning up... even though this was a way cold winter... al gore is full of s***... and hes so hypocritical on us walking, riding bikes, and not using cars but he still flys on his private jets... private limos... and all that crap.... this is complete bull s***

Well, all I can say is that...I've shaken my head many times reading this post. I really hope that all of the scientists are all wrong but I doubt it. I believe that our kids will look at our generation as the turning point where people began to understand that what we do can affect the entire planet. There are ways that we can make less of an impact and I think we will all have to accept this or the earth will continue to get pissed of at us (yeah Gaïa) and send more crazy storms to Florida and down south and such and such.
I own a boat, I love wakeboarding too much not too, but I sort of feel guilty using it because I know it chugs gas (but at least it isn't a 2 stroke).
We could always go kiteboarding and erect more Cable parks. I'de love to start a cable park...play the environment card to get gov. funds and support...

Matt - If you don't think some of these liberal ideas can affect boating you are completely wrong. I used to own a PWC and many lakes have been closed to PWCs over the years because they were claimed to be either too noisy or have too high of emissions. They could have asked for simple modifications like mufflers or use of synthetic smokeless motor oils in two-stroke engines. But instead they just ban anything that looks like someone riding fast and having fun on the water. Now the next step is to ban the rest of the boats, starting with the big engines and slowly working the way down.

It is absolutely insane and illogical, but there is a small but vocal and active group of people that get off on restricting other peoples business. It's a mental disorder of some kind. These folks usually don't have hobbies of their own to occupy their time and seem hellbent on restricting the good fortunes of others. Some are closet socialists still bent on a pipe-dream utopia run by a centralized government like what failed in the USSR and Cuba. Most are just deluded wackos that get off on holier-than-thou rants and a belief that more laws will stop other people from bothering them.

My personal belief is that Al Gore suffers from either a guilt complex over his wealth coming from mining and burning coal or is a diversion tactic to make us forget he's gotten wealthy off of coal and preventing anyone else from having what he got. (Yes people, Al Gore's giant family fortune is from COAL. The number one man-made greenhouse gas contributor!) If he get folks to focus on cars and fuel types, then he's probably in the diversion tactic. If he gets folks off of coal driven electricity then it's some kind of weird guilt issue he's going through.

This will probably all blow over in ten years, just like the crazy 70's Global Cooling scare, the crazy 80's Population Bomb scare, and the 90's Bill Clinton Will Steal your Wife scare.

Anybody ever read 1984? Kinda sounds like a similar thing here with Al Gore... I also compared the book to the war in Iraq... The point is that scared people are more likely to follow your agenda, and it's very effective. It's just too bad that there are so many easily duped people.

republicans help you keep your freedoms and democrats take them away. Every law that is passed takes away a freedom period. vote republican because democrats are extremists

I apologize in advance for not reading all 85 posts and seeing if this was already said.

But, if global warming comes to fruition won't there be more water? lol

The sky is falling...the sky is falling. Panic, panic....Boats are like cars, trucks or SUVs, They aint going anywhere. Oil isnt going to dry up anytime soon. Not in our life time or our kids. So many everyday things depend on oil, not just automobiles. So suck it up pay for it. Leave it to loosers like Gore to try & rouse something out of nothing. Global warming has been happening longer than Gore has been interested in running for President...again...

Here is what is causing the earth to warm up.
Here's the story. "X-ray images taken from a new international spacecraft show that the sun's magnet field is much more turbulent than scientists knew." NASA reported this yesterday. I wonder if there's a consensus on this issue yet. Now, this opening paragraph is loaded. First off, the vanity. I thought we knew everything about the sun. I thought there was everything to know that was known and that we knew it. Now these x-ray images show that the sun's magnet field is much more turbulent than scientists knew. Scientists are learning something every day but guess what, global warming is unassailable as a concept. "They saw twisting plumes of gas rising from the sun's corona and reacting with the star's magnetic field, a process that releases energy and may power solar storms and coronal mass ejections, which in turn affect the Earth. A turbulent magnetic field would, in theory, generate more energy than a steady-state field. 'Theorists suggested that twisted, tangled magnetic fields might exist. With the X-Ray Telescope, we can see them clearly for the first time.'" The story has images from the telescope.

"'For the first time, we are now able to make out tiny granules of hot gas that rise and fall in the sun's magnetized atmosphere,' said Dick Fisher, director of NASA's Heliophysics Division. 'It's going to put us in a whole new realm of understanding,'" really? Algore said yesterday that the science was all settled. Scientists all settled. New realm of understanding. Yep, "These images will open a new era of study on some of the sun's processes that affect Earth, astronauts, orbiting satellites and the solar system," which means all those distant planets out there as well. Now, might this new discovery of these multiple magnetic fields have any effect on temperature here? Might it have any affect on global warming whatsoever? Since the sun, could we say is not just primary, the sun is the source of all energy on the planet? It is. You let that baby go out, folks, and it's all over. The idea that it is excluded totally from all of these global warming crises is indication itself that this is bogus.

"Scientists hope the observations can help explain and perhaps predict space weather -- the ejections from the sun that can disable satellites, knock out electricity grids on Earth and cause the spectacular auroras in extreme northern and southern skies." Now, this is a Reuters story, and the version of this that's on NewScientist.com has intriguing headline: "Dazzling New Images Reveal the 'Impossible' on the Sun." Well, who the hell are we to say what's possible and impossible on the sun? There's nobody from here that's ever been there. There's nobody from here that's ever been close enough to get any kind of idea what's possible and not possible on the sun. How many people have the IQ, even the most learned among us, how many have the IQ to understand the physics and the concept of a star like Earth, which is a tiny one, lasting billions and billions and billions of years? How many of us have the IQ to understand the energy required for that and where the hell does it come from and how does it last, because, you know, the sun does not pull into a gas station.

Who the hell do we think we are? What kind of vanity do we have that we would dare admit that there are things on the sun that are impossible? It's like telling God that things are impossible. At any rate. It's gotta make me wonder. Here you've got Gore, the leading snake oil salesman of one of the biggest hoaxes ever perpetrated on the planet, what must it be like to be this guy every day? Now, yesterday at the Senate hearing that they had on this, Algore refused to take the personal energy ethics pledge. It was offered to him by Senator Inhofe. Senator Inhofe showed Gore a film frame from "An Inconvenient Truth" where it asks viewers, "Are you ready to change the way you live?" Gore has been criticized for excessive home energy usage at his residence in Tennessee, and it's been reported that many of these so-called carbon offset projects would have been done anyway whether he got involved in it or not. He was asked, "Are you willing to make a commitment here today by taking this pledge to consume no more energy for use in your residence than the average American household by one year from today?"

Gore is telling everybody else we gotta downsize. We have to reduce our carbon footprint. We've got to do all this. So he asked Gore, would you do it? Here's the pledge. "As a believer that human caused global warming is a moral, ethical, and spiritual issue affecting our survival, as a believer that home energy use is a key component of overall energy use, as a believer that reducing my fossil fuel based home energy usage will lead to lower greenhouse gas emissions, and as a believer that leaders on moral issues should lead by example, I pledge to consume no more energy for use in my home than the average American household by March 21st, 2008?" Gore refused to take the pledge.

Now, I understand he's not going to take a pledge offered by a Republican senator up there and the senator probably just made up the pledge, but we get these pledges from the left all the time. Gore wouldn't take it. Gore would not. In essence, Algore was saying, "I'm not going to change my life. That's up to you plebes to do. I'm the leading snake oil salesman of this hoax, and that's what gives me my power and I need to use as much power and energy as I can to maintain my power. That's what carbon offsets are about."

I have read every post and the accompanying links. I have also seen Al Gore's movie and done some research for politics classes I have taken. That being said, I still don't know what to think about this topic. There is no clear evidence that global warming has caused the climate change, but there also is not a better explanation as of yet. I believe that society has a responsibility to reduce emissions, but at what cost? I don't think that placing government restrictions on the public is the right answer. Technology and economic forces are much more efficient in achieving these goals anyway. I am more concerned about the public uprising (People with no real knowledge about the subject)that potentially could affect our lives and our interests. A world without wakeboarding, motocross, cars, and planes is not a world I want to be a part of. I am not buying into an all out ban, but they could very easily make our lives a lot more difficult with only a few restrictions. I also thought it was ridiculous to see Gore in his movie touting these issues, but flying in a private jet and driving in a suburban. As a leader against emissions he should really make an attempt to set a better example. Just my 2 cents.

As a PhD chemist, I often run into people who are convinced of a certain idea because they have heard 'a professor tell me' or 'everyone believes it'. To me this is merely a reminder of our society today...people do not want to think for themselves, they want to be told what to think and then get all worked up about it. They play ostrich and put their heads into the sand and keep repeating their slogans over and over. The problem with putting your head in the sand is that you are bent over and blinded, waiting for the old broomstick job.

For those truly interested, I would suggest expanding your intellectual knowledge on global warming. The BBC did a piece on this topic and I've included the link to the video below. It is not short, and I won't say I agree with everything they say, but I also will not succumb to the 'of course global warming is a problem caused by mankind' argument either.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4520665474899458831&q=bbc+global+warming

Dylan and Dennis.....You are right on my brothers! Gore would not pledge to practice what he preaches. And a public uprising is likely the case with this scare. It is already happening. The threat to boaters and setting limitations and restrictions. I think JPK made a VERY good example of my fear with the PWC's. I own a PWC and do not get to ride it as much now they have restricted it badly. Think about this....Let's say the liberals don't go as severe with the restrictions on boats by removing them from the lake....They will put up the fight...not win their goal....but win a lesser restriction. Let's say a boat running time from noon to 4p.m. only. SEE HOW THIS IS WORKING OUT. Propose a 100miles...they might get 50 miles. Catch my drift. How would you like only wakeboarding between noon and 4p.m. as their compromise to be your buddy. It sucks! Dennis pointed out some real good scientific facts. My dad said he bought into the Global cooling bit, voted on issues and such. Worked in a Factory as a union worker. Voted democratic because he was persuaded to do so. Now he is ticked that he wasted his votes for meaningless and hurtfull policies that he quote "felt dupped into." Now he uses words like NAIVE and Big Sham when he hears about global warming and such. He said he feels awful that his tax money goes to public schools and Universities that are teaching this B.S. Personally, so do I. The word Diversity to me looks like "DIVIDE" I thought we are the UNITED States of America. This Global Warming crap is just going to divide us even more. Come out with a retro fit kit for my boat to burn ehthanol. I'll do it if it helps. But don't you dare tell me when I can and can not boat. Or where I can or can not boat. The Damn Yankess said it best in that old tune......Dont tread on me!

Scott- I'm not quite sure what you getting at with all this "UNITED" and "DIVIDE" stuff, but one of the things that makes the U.S. great is that people are allowed to take sides on issues and voice conflicting opinions.

Climate change is a very serious issue. I don't think it is fair to make this a liberal vs. conservative or democrat vs. republican issue. Although, I think you need to be skeptical of what is said by people on the far ends of the spectrum as I would scrutinize what Al Gore has to say just as I would what Pat Robertson has to say on the issue.

As Loren said, I would also recommend to anyone who is interested in this, to expand their knowledge on global warming, before making stands on the issue. There is quite a bit of well researched literature out there...

Wow this thread is huge. I ride a lake that has a ride/speed from from 9 to 7. before or after is for the fisherman or tooling around. I do not know if this topic is the reason for that or not. IMO I do not think they will ban anything. If they restrict PWCs they would have to do the same to snowmobiles since they use the same engines. Hell if they do what they say they are I will buy one of those car boats and put a tower on it. Sorry Im not as in depth but I think everyone has covered this topic really well already.

Nicolet....United....freedom to choose what is right and wrong privately but come to an agreement for a solution together. Divide.....stir up a scare and put people on two sides of a fence and tell us what is right or wrong. And you should not be driving your SUV or Truck but walk. Then they fly their personal jet and will not swear under oath to follow the guidelines that they (Gore) are preaching. They are doing the dividing. I can have it (Gore), but you (who have less money than I) can not have it. Big Government (Democrat....believes in more government control, less private sector) they are the ones pushing words like diversity. That word to me just points out divide. I think it is wrong that politicians create hype to get people on different sides and then push their agenda on us. United we stand...Divided WE FALL. This idealogy wants us to be divided on the subject so we will fall in defeat. People use to agree with issues too. Now it seems we don't. Example: I thought wakeboarders would be upset that restrictions are being talked about on how, when, and where or if you can use your boat. But some clearly stated on here, that if it all went away tomorrow, that is fine. I have kiteboarding. OK..that is good for you, but not everyone has the ideal setting for kiteboarding to work. They need a boat to board. We are a niche group (small) The majority looks like they don't follow the hype of global warming. But sometimes the minority wins anyway. I would say a united approach would be: I will retro fit my boat to use ethanol to show my support for the environment. The divide approach would be:the restrictions on where and when boaters operate pushed by legislation. Just like the closing of dirt bikes trails. Just like the restrictions on PWC's (hate to point it out, but all done under democratic leadership...and I think Gore wants to run and he is using this for his platform).. I said it before and I will say it again. It is much easier to defeat the niche groups...boaters, dirt bikers, PWC's, road bikes, first. Before going after the big guys...auto manufacturers and such. Niche group defeats make it easier for arguments and debates when taking on the big guys. We are the Ammunition!

Nick....like your response. That's really good. Unfortunately you struck a nerve with snowmobiles. Michigan has passed legislation on snowmobiles. Some of it has taken effect this past winter some will take effect on this up and coming season. I have no problem with two stroke, four stroke engines on the water. If they are running clean. Great! If you have some old two stroker that has not been taken care of, fogging the mosquito's. All right give him a fix it ticket. If he can't fix it, replace it. But to just put a blanket on the whole recreation is bad. The attempt is bad.

"This planet has a fever."
And the only cure is... More Cowbell!!

(couldn't help myself)

^!

COWBELL BAND! Let's start one.

I like how conservatives paint the picture that because al gore flies a jet and rolls a suburban that global warming isn't real. Those things just make global warming more real, not less (literally).

gangstar...uh no. It just makes it less real. Gore knows it is not real, that is why he is flying and driving his big SUV and private jet. Then he buys carbon offsets....which he owns the company that sells them. Big business politician trying to scare us so he can make more money! Hypocrite! That is what he is. Just like our stinkin Governor here in Michigan! Blame everyone else for doing it.....but not me...not my fault. One word sums it up. LIAR!

Actually, I am in school right now, and I was yesterday at this time as well. I take an online-AP class and when I'm done with my work, I can surf the internet. Scott, if you seriously think that diveristy is synonomous to divide, then maybe you should go back to one of those public schools that you are paying for. And JPK, if you really think that the government is going to tell people that they cannot boat on lakes because of the environmental damage, you have seriously got to be kidding me. If the people supporting changes get their way, the changes will be high emission standards on new boats out of the factory. And you know what makes the emissions low? Its the fact that the gasoline burns cleaner, which will be better for your boat in general, and not affect preformance. You all are so scared of made up stories of how the government is going to take away all your rights and make you pay higher taxes to do it, while disregarding the real problems of the deterierating environment and the current administration's actions. Gore may be a hypocrite, but there are very few politicians that aren't, and if you all cared so much about politicians practicing what they preach, then maybe you would do some research into them instead of just calling every person who doesn't agree with you a hypocrite. If you are all so worried about wasted taxes and lost liberites, you should look to your current administration who has taken away your liberties through the Patriot Act, the NSA, and has wasted your tax dollars on a pointless war with no end in sight. I don't feel like scrolling up again to see who said it, but someone said that it shouldnt take a doomsday story to get you to make a few small changes, and whoever it was is right. It shouldn't, but apparently its going to take more than that because you are too stubborn and stuck in your ways. Now who is unreasonable one?

Matt...done all the research. I follow their actions ...probably too closely over the years. Patriot Act...this is boating...besides I have nothing to hide through my phone calls and emails. Do you? I support the war and I have had family killed over there. So unless you can relate to that. Let's leave Iraq out of this. Ever heard of the term gasohol? It was a corn alcohol. E85 is not new. Plus the 85 stands for alcohol...the other 15% is gasoline. Just in case you did not know. The E85 plants are getting their energy to producing the fuel from coal. What I am saying is, it is a cycle. When you think you are doing something good for the environment...chances are your not doing any different than before. I like E85, if it means not relying on other countries for as much oil. But I am not buying it to save the world from global warming. Because it is not. I could debate this until I am blue in the face. I work for a auto manufacturer that supplies batteries for hybrids. Go to these discussions everyday at work. It is old hat to me. Hydrogen is the shizza! Then we would be talking a real impact without sacrificing performance.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/22/garden/22impact.html?ex=1332216000&en=e77725051fe1a853&ei =5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss

Like I said, alternate energy sources are the answer. If you don't think global warming is an issue, fine. That doesn't mean that you still shouldn't be doing things to lessen our impact on the environment. I know plenty about E85 and Biodiesel and understand what the 85 means. I understand that E85 may not do as much good as people think, but it is still a step toward cutting our dependence on oil. If we can find a way to produce it more efficiently, then we will have made progress. The Patriot Act is not about phone calls, but about the government taking away your 4th and 5th amendment rights such as the right to not be taken into custody without knowing why. As for Iraq, I do not support the war, but I do support the troops who are fighting there, to clarify. Bush had no reason to invade Iraq, but it is not the troops fault that he made that decision. My point by that is people fail to take notice of what is really going on, but complain about imaginary things such as taxes because of global warming.

104 posts
104 opinions

You’ all need to relax a bit and go boating. Something most learned a long time ago is arguing on the internet is futile.

Cheers and best of luck trying to sway people to believe in your opinion on anything.

dc

Matt you say: As for Iraq, I do not support the war, but I do support the troops who are fighting there, to clarify. Matt one last time......would you say that statement to a soldier and to his face. I certainly hope not. Because what you are saying is "I support you, but not your cause (protecting the U.S.A)." Why do you think that soldier signed up for the military? It is not Bush's war. One man can not fight a war. Nothing goes perfectly with a war. People are pissed because it lasted longer than three months. Fact:More people are killed on the U.S. border with illegal immigration in one year than that of the American soldiers killed in the Iraq war so far. You don't hear that in the news. Know all of the facts..know all of the facts. Just like people are still walking around saying there was no WMD. Yes there was, and they were found. But the media quickly stopped talking about that. When was the last time you heard the words WMD. Exactly! My friend Dave said it was awful leaving Somalia in the 90's. People were running to his copter and beating on the body for them to stay. Why did they leave..because the soldiers were called occupiers. Dave said he thinks back to then and wonders often how many of them are still alive. Not many he thinks. He is now in the waters between Iraq and Iran. Now get this back to boating and privileges. This is way too far off the subject. But I had to stand up for my friends and family who are military.

HAHA, I love liberal political arguments. They are always scolding the US government, even to the point of contridicting themselves. They will tell you that the US was HORRIBLE for playing both sides of the Iran/Iraq conflict in 1983 and that we were wrong for giving Saddam WMDs to overcome Iran. Then they will turn right around and tell you that WMDs dont exist in Iraq and the Iraq war is wrong.

You want to use coinciding facts and elevated probability to convince everyone that a questionable human-caused global warming is occuring, yet using coinciding facts and elevated probability to go to war in Iraq was foolish.

Why is it that probability and coinciding facts is enough to convince you that humans are causing the entire planet to over heat, and your willing to do whatever it takes to stop it, yet you find it absurd to use the same logic to prevent WMDs reaching our soil and harming our civilians.

If probability and coinciding facts are indeed all that is needed for you to act, shouldnt you be preparing for an Ice Age too? Shouldnt we be trying to expedite global warming before its too late? I just wonder if in a few years we will be charging all the hydrogen car drivers carbon credits for not doing their part to stop the Ice Age. Maybe the Hummer drivers will get incentives for producing the life saving greenhouse gasses.

They just need to build more cables.

Can you tell me one thing that has change in your life since the Patriot Act has gone into affect?

Do you even know what the NSA is?

Fact: Ethanol is 30% less effiecent than gasoline with current technology and engine builds. So 30 MPG Gas = 21 MPG ethanol. Ethanol also has serious implications for ground water pollution.

What has the current administration done to the enviroment? Sounds like someone fell for the talking point propaganda.

(Message edited by deltahoosier on March 23, 2007)

all great points Rod and Jason. To me the only narrow mindedness is coming from liberals or those who unfortunately are being taught by liberals in our schools and such. I kept my ground when I attended three College University's. It was hard to deal with when they would just push. It is almost like Global Warming, Global cooling, and Protesting the war is a trend or a fad to follow. It is cool to do or be part of. Get a spine, get some morals, and for gosh sakes get a education (one that is not based off theories and fiction).

Ok guys here is something you probably didnt know!! The whole global warming thing is bull**** CO2 or carbon gas ac****s for 0.48% of the earths atmosphere and that is up from 0.43% from 10 years ago!! Not much a, but what people dont know is the majority of this is given off by the ocean!!! Global warming is now such a money making political scheme that it is just a way of the goverment raping the public for more money!! One of the top scientists in the world said that 'it would be like a car not running right, and ignoring the engine, ignoring the transmition, ignoring the electrics and looking at nut that holds on one of the wheels' (Being CO2) the main thing effecting global weather is the sun!!!! Which effects directly how hot the planet is, how much solor winds reach the plant (Which when meet with water vapor of the oceans make clouds) So dont believe the hype!!!!!

Everybody keeps taking about the polor bears, the ice caps etc however nobody realizes that 100 years ago the earth went through a hot spell for 40 years MUCH hotter than we are experiencing now, they were fine then so why now are they all going to die????? Also the size of the polar ice caps have risen and fallen since the dawn of time but its only now, because we have the technology to see it that everyone is freeking out???????????????

Trust me the Global warming scandal is a way of our goverments keeping people scared so they can raise tax and gain more power!!!!

Don't get me wrong CO2 is increasing but it has little/No effect of the warming of our Planet!!!!!!!

Danny

The ignorance and misinformation in this thread is very disturbing.

I don't know about misinformation in this thread. So far the people that are saying global warming is a farce are posting numbers and facts to support the fraud. But people who are saying that it is real are not posting scientific numbers...just weak arguments about why global warming is real. Almost like they got their information from Gores movie. I would love to see us all do our part on doing whats good to keep our air and water clean......But that is different from global warming and our CO2 gases our big boats are emitting argument. But politicians are trying to attack us and our sport. And lying to get more tax money...it is a scam. A pile of cow manure puts out more emissions per day than that of an automobile with a big V8. This is fact not fiction. And that study was done in 1984. Cars and boat engines are much better today than 1984. So what do we do...kill all the cows and all go veggie? LETS PROTECT OUR SPORT. And prepare for a fight if it comes to that. I don't want to be part of a lottery on if I get to be one of the 50 people who can boat this day or that day on a lake where we have residence and pay taxes.

I'm not going to touch the Global Warming issue outside the non-wakeboarding forum. I have enough people angry at me over there.

As for the story about the boat regulations, I would like to see it for myself and see if it has any credibility. Most of this stuff is usually just FUD. Do you have a link, or sources?

Read State of Fear by Michael Crichton..it concerns Global Warming and even though the characters are fictitious the data used is documented and obtained from real research. It will open your eyes somewhat to the fact that there is a lot of politics behind Global Warming. The fact is the climate has been undergoing changes since the beginning of time. Humans can affect the environment but the belief we are the driving force behind climate changes has never been proven. For every scientist that supports Global warming there is another that can refute it. The scientific community depends on funding to continue there studies...where does that money come from? There are big politics and big money involved and the data can be massaged in many ways to prove or disprove a theory. All I am saying is do not fall for all of the liberal rhetoric that you hear on CNN or read in the papers. Look deeper.....to simply blindly believe a sound byte from tv, supposedly backed up by an "expert" is doing yourself an injustice. Just look at all of the research done on cancers over the years. One week coffee is bad, the next week it is good....etc. etc..
Money is made by keeping people in a state of fear and confusion.

What is even more interesting about State of Fear is that it was written before Al Gore's hype machine and the mania of the past few years. Crichton predicted everything exactly as it has actually played out in the media and politics, right down to the hypocrisy of Gore and the alarmists.

Folks should just focus on keeping the lake water clean so we can continue to swim in it.

Hey Scott K, here is something in response to this quote, "So far the people that are saying global warming is a farce are posting numbers and facts to support the fraud. But people who are saying that it is real are not posting scientific numbers"

The oceans make up over 70% of the planet, and the temperatures are rising, and that is a scientific fact.
So can you explain how the ocean temperatures are not increasing? Or is it simply that the planets oceans are warming, but it is NOT global warming?

Thank you Peter!

Wow, show me a thermometer and ocean temp readings taken in 1860 that were accurate to within 0.1 degC across the globe. I can't even get anything that accurate from the sensors installed on my home lake.

And I believe the request was for proof that boats and cars are causing global warming (not something really hot, like, I dunno, THE SUN).

im not gettin rid of my boat. when the ice caps melt im going to strap the board on get the family and go riddin. oh yea ill also need my dry suit.

JPK, to answer your question.
http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/research/Smith-Reynolds-dataset-2004.pdf

This is where the chart posted above is located. NASA has done some major accomplishments over the years, like going to the moon.
http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/research/sst/sst.html

Is al gore being CEREAL about this too?

I am glad I go to Texas A&M where everyone drives F-250s while sporting cowboy boots and a lip full of copenhagen snuff.

Global warming should be the least of our worries right now. There are so many other problems that need to be dealt with.

Leo- So so true
let the hippies worry about global warming... cause I know you me and everyone else here can't do anything about it so why worry yourself sick. I'll worry about gas

(Message edited by tyboarder03 on March 25, 2007)

I agree with Leo and Tyler. We have bigger things to worry about than Global Warming. It is still a farce. Like mentioned earlier....did they have accurate thermometer readings in the 1700 or 1800's. This is a re occurring cycle. Weather patterns have been documented and researched. They repeat themselves. Like I said earlier.....are you going to kill all the cows? Because you could say that Global warming is not man made, but caused by bovine. So it is a Cow problem. More CO2 from cow manure than a V8 auto per day. And I would have to think there are a lot of cows across the globe.

I have other things to worry about, I don't like the solutions, we can't do anything anyway, therefore, it ain't happening. Nice logic people.

Just for information a mercury thermometer that could measure from 0 to 100 with a precision of 0.01 degree Celsius was presented the 19th march 1743 at the "Académie des Beaux-Arts de Lyon"

watch out for manbearpig.........im cereal.....

Danny- Do you realize that about a 100 years ago we were feeling the effect of the first and second industrial revolution...

I like how no one recognizes that there is money to made on the other side of the coin...those who argue that there is no global warming...one of the main reasons we have such a debate is because of much of the "research and studies" funded by the oil business

Is it possible to move this entire thread to the "other" board? No one ever seems to agree, and it just seems to be unfitting for this category.

CABLEPARKS...Here we come. No boats just cables. Until Al Gore shuts that down because the amount of electricity is causing a spike in coal burning. Thanks for validating my point Gerald about the thermometers. That just proves that the earth goes through these warming cycles and cooling cycles. We are going to set a record high temperature possibly today here in Michigan. The last time it was this warm on this day was 1979. Now do you get it? 1979 was during our last cooling period. I remember 1992 when I bought my first PWC...crappy Summer...really cool. I took the thing out more when it was in the 60's just to get ride time in because it was hard to get a 70 or 80 degree temp. But the hype now is taking it to a level that is not necessary. Including setting restrictions on where, when or if you can take your boat into a body of water. I look at your profiles...see the rides you are running. And your big investment will get squashed by a special interest group over a hype that is based off from inflated inaccurate information. And your (ones who support the ideal of Global Warming) not the least bit upset. Your going to let a POLITICIAN decide the fate of our beloved sport? Wow, have we sunk that far? Snowmobiles are getting the treatment coming up this next winter. And I would say about 90% I have talked to have no idea about it. But the DNR has the info posted at their stations. I guess they figure that is enough notification for them.

Cable parks use a 3hp electric motor if I heard the guys at TSR correctly. Maybe they said 30? Either way, that is a small engine in comparison to a gas enginer.

Oh, and Craig, I wasn't saying that we should forget about the issue. I think we should work towards cleaner engines and a healthier environment. But is getting rid of a million or so wakeboard/ski boats with v8 engines that only put off .0000000000000001% of the worlds pollution going to change 'global warming'. I dont think so. There are different approaches to solving the problem.

I don't agree with most of the solution which evolve Government forcing lifestyle changes either. The problem I have is that people are attacking the messengers and the science in order to avoid addressing solutions. Anthropologic Global Warming is a fact that we have to deal with. The question is how do we deal with it.

IMO, the first steps in dealing with any problem are facing reality and education. It seems to me that our political process is not very good at keeping up with reality, and all these Think Tanks create and market their own reality, leaving much of the population woefully misinformed.

"Low-horsepower machines account for at least 10 percent of the nation's smog-forming pollution, which has been linked to respiratory and heart disease, according to the EPA. A single lawnmower emits as much pollution in an hour as 50 cars driving 20 miles."

"The California Air Resources Board has estimated that by 2020 the tighter requirements would cut as much pollution as taking 1.8 million cars off the road."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/09/AR2005060901774.html

Not sure why you people think you can not do anything to change the pollution being released, and that you are not responsible for it, because you ARE! Everything we do has an effect. Remember WE DRINK THE WATER THAT WE BOARD ON!!!!! On oil sheen on the water is NOT OK. They need to improve the refill process just like they have for automobiles. The funny part is how much vapor escapes into the atmosphere, yet Cali is one of the only states to require vapor recovery on their gas pumps.

I could go on and on, but most of you just don't care about anything. If you saw a rare animal you would probably shoot it just to get a better look at it.

Pretty bold statement Peter: "I could go on and on, but most of you just don't care about anything. If you saw a rare animal you would probably shoot it just to get a better look at it".

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quote:

Is it possible to move this entire thread to the "other" board? No one ever seems to agree, and it just seems to be unfitting for this category.

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Agreed, this doesn't belong here.

http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/4387/408390.html?1171909532

(Message edited by craig_riddle on March 26, 2007)

No Way! We agree on something Craig?

I think it most certainly does belong here. It is our sport. I know you think it should be on the boat side. But that would not get the attention that this needs in all seriousness. This has an impact on our sport with a bad solution if polictics gets their play.

The other planets are warming too. It's the Sun stupid.

Arrgg, I be agreeing with the bug, & fat sac.

If we were discussing the impact on Wakeboarding, I would agree that this belongs here. Unfortunately, most people want to dispute the Science rather than discuss the solutions.

from the IPCC report. - http://www.ipcc.ch/present/WMEF_FINAL.ppt

Fine. There is little debate as to the phenomenon of Global Warming, the issue is what causes it. Ther are still not enough facts to illustrate that is IS NOT a normal earth cycle of atmospheric change. Even the most Liberal scientists agree that that is one portion of the equation. What is obvious is that there are some individuals who seek to gain financially and status-wise in causing a widespread panic among us. These people are arguably the worst offenders of energy efficiency and good "Earth Stewardship". They try to justify their arrogance and elitist attitudes by implementing "carbon credits" to placate their own guilty feelings. These people also support billions of dollars of taxpayer money to "research" the phenomenon. If I were a scientist supported by tax dollars, I might be inclined to stretch the research project until I could retire.
The other side is not much better, however, the "panic option" has not been used. I refuse to follow the advice of someone who us unable or unwilling to make the same sacrifices I am asked to make without proper representation. Charts, graphs, scientific models and research information can be construed in so many ways it makes one think that there is no truth...only opinion.

A scientest publishes some data and makes a claim that becomes popular then everyone who disagrees is supposed to give-up and we are supposed to totally change our lifestyle and increase our taxes and cost of goods to make it better. Here is a scientific reference on the fallicy of the measurement methods used to collect the warming data.

Patrick J. Michaels, Sound and Fury: The Science and Politics of Global Warming (Washington: Cato Institute, 2 1992), chapter 10, “Political Science.” Robert K. Merton, “Science and the Social Order,” Philosophy of Science 5:3 (July 1938), 321-337. 34 than most non-specialists in the field can imagine–and, I might add, often even many specialists whose studies are insufficiently interdisciplinary. Essex and McKitrick’s book in particular has opened my
eyes to dimensions of the physics of fluid dynamics, turbulence, and chaos theory that make it not just very difficult in practice but impossible even in theory to make credible predictions about global climate reaction to such things as changes in atmospheric carbon dioxide concentration. To offer just one example of the kind of problem that Essex and McKitrick raise, the very idea of average temperature–whether of this room or of Earth’s atmosphere as a whole–is a category mistake,because temperature is not a measurement of quantity but of the physical state of a given bit of material, and in any given fluid in disequilibrium (which is what our atmosphere and oceans are), no matter how large or small, there are infinite numbers of temperatures in infinitely divisible fields that are always changing chaotically through turbulent convection as well as chemical processes.
Consequently we can’t speak of “global average temperature” not only because our samples are
hopelessly too few and too unrepresentative but more importantly because the concept itself is
irrational.

OK...I am convinced.....Global Warming is a problem. Anyone interested in a Malibu Wakesetter? I am going to do my part and sell the pig. Think about how much gas my boat uses compared to an auto. Holy crap..that is not good. Plus with gasoline going back to 3 plus a gallon. It's a good time to dump it. Even if it was set up to burn E85...with that 15% gasoline...it is still a pig compared to a toyota prius. It has to go. I am dead serious. I just looked at the seadoo website. I can live with the GTX four stroker. I'll just have to obey the start and run times the state of michigan allows for them. Heck that is the type of machine that I was riding behind before I got my boat. Go up to the article link I posted on Friday from the NY times. That is the lifestyle you will have to follow to make a BIG impact on Global warming. Throw out the need for toilet paper. And have one flourescent bulb lamp(dispose of the bulb properly...it has mercury in it).

"There are still not enough facts to illustrate that is IS NOT a normal earth cycle of atmospheric change."

Is this even the case? What are the facts around the research done by drilling the polar ice caps to determine temperature and CO2 saturation over the past 10,000 or so years. This research show a cyclical swing in earths temps as stated above. It also shows is that throughout time there is a direct correlation with CO2 saturation and temperature.

The kicker is over the past 50 or so years that CO2 saturation is much higher than it has ever been found to be in the 10,000 or so years that the researchers have been investigating.

I think that common logic can devise why CO2 levels have had a remarkable increase in the last fifty years... or maybe not as I am sure someone will spout some crap about cows or chickens or people eating too much Taco Bell.

I think that Peter hit it on the head. The proof is out there. Trying to get people to believe the obvious when they don't want to is like trying to beat a dead horse.

Andrew, come back here is 10 years with some children under your belt and see if you still think this is a plausible argument "but I don't care about my impact on the planet you only live once and I want to do the things I want to do". If you don;t have a different outlook then, I will feel sorry for your kids...

10,000 Years? As compared to what...the age of earth? Or compared to the existence of man? What do they say about Vesuvious Eruption? What are in the polar "tea leaves" about continental drift? How about the Krakatoa Volcano? Nothing? What a surprise. And about my children..They can hopefully afford all the carbon credits they can handle, just like Algore.

Much of the observed temperature rise of the last 120 years occurred before 1940, whereas most of the additional carbon dioxide (more than 80 percent) entered the atmosphere after 1940. Between 1940 and 1970, carbon dioxide built up rapidly in the atmosphere. The temperature of the Earth should also have risen rapidly, but it did not.

I have to agree with sjmedic, 10,000 years seems like a lot to people that live a fraction of that, but the Earth has been here for how long?

the point is not how long the earth has been around but the fact that for the last 10,000 years rise and fall in temperature was in direct coorelation to rise in fall in CO2 saturation.

It continues to be in direct correlation only the levels of CO2 in the atmosphere are currently way higher than they have ever been according to the research done.

Manzo.....I will come back in ten years with both of my kids....don't attack Andrew because he is not a parental figure yet. There are a lot of people on here that don't believe the hype that have children. Funny thing....my dad said he bought into the global cooling crap back in the 70's on how there will be no food in 10 years for your kids to eat. That was 71...I was one year old. I am still here, and I am still eating healthy. Sorry that the cows were a sore subject. But that would be the result of the fact being true. No one has argued that with science supporting the idea that cows are not part of the problem. Manzo...get rid of your Mobius like I am getting rid of my Malibu to help the cause of stopping Global Warming. If it is real...then we need to put the money where our mouth is. Because it only takes three to four hours to burn 50 gallons of crude.

Peter -

Not sure why you people think you can not do anything to change the pollution being released, and that you are not responsible for it, because you ARE! Everything we do has an effect. Remember WE DRINK THE WATER THAT WE BOARD ON!!!!! On oil sheen on the water is NOT OK. They need to improve the refill process just like they have for automobiles.

Yes, I'm with you on that one as I stated above. Focusing on clean water is a good thing. Why Gore and the enviromentalists want to focus on hypothetical environmental changes hypothetically related to human activity and not more pressing environmental damage is beyond me.

JPK, to answer your question.
http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/research/Smith-Reynolds-dataset-2004.pdf

Unfortunately you shot yourself in the foot here. These guys have a margin of error in their temperature estimates that is 400% larger than the scale of their chart!!! Basically, the chart is total garbage for anything prior to 1950. I love it when the global warming crowd throws up scary charts and then you find out the data is made up of estimates and that the figures that have a larger margin of error than the changes they are trying to demonstrate.

According to the evidence of the graph above, humans reduced emitting CO2 from 1880 to 1910. Then from 1910 to 1940 stepped up CO2 emissions until 1970 when humans stoped or slowed down again until 1980 when we kicked it into high gear again.

CO2 levels and temperatures dating back 250,000 years, data obtained from infrared analysis of ice cores drilled in Greenland and the Antarctic, found that sometimes the concentration of CO2 was high when the temperature was low, and sometimes the CO2 was low when the temperature was high.

"The temperature of the Earth should also have risen rapidly, but it did not."

Estimates of delay in Climate Response to increases in CO2 are generally figured in decades.

Where does that graph say that? You must be assuming CO2 is the only factor. CO2 is not the only factor and the time delays in response to the forcing factors are different. (including cooling due to aerosols, for those of you who like to use the misleading Global Cooling arguement)

Predicted CO2 concentration to temperature models have proven to be quite accurate. (including the very misleading CO2 follows temperature claim that somebody is sure to bring up)

Also, see chart for contribution estimate for solar irradiance variability, for those who think it is due to the sun.

im sick of this thread and the bull that is being spewed out of peoples mouths.....do they talk about global warming in canada and european countries....i dont know im just wondering if it is such a big deal elsewhere....hooooray for the political machine....im going to ride more than i ever have this year and not once will i let global warming ruin my day on the water.......

Scott, I was not pickin on him due to the fact that he has no kids (presumably) but rather to the point that your view point on many topics, espically one that would/could have a direct impact on their quality of life, as soon as you have kids...

I have stated this on various other threads in relation to global warming...

We do not have to make drastic life altering changes to make a big difference. We can all do little things that will help out. Do I think the problem is real? Yes. Do I think that means we have to ditch our boats and trucks? No. Do we need to go after big businesses that are corrupt and pollute etc. Yes.

We should be pouring the billions that we are spending in Iraq into getting fission energy. No harmful byproducts etc.

What about finding a fuel source that is renewable. We are going to solve one problem and create another moving towards E-85 etc. We need to fix the problem and fix it right the first time.

To really address the main topic of this post, it will be a long long time before any restriction is placed on boating that will effect us as boat owners.

Andrew, we talk a lot about global warming in switzerland.
The positive point is that our next boat at the club will ran on bioethanol or recycling food oil in diesel and we will then be sponsorized by our state.

Ok, lets say the scientists speculations and guesses are right. Conservation will not stop it. Might slow in down by an very small fraction, but wont stop it. I mean, recycling was supposed to help. We all recycle like mad and we dont put a dent in anything. While I believe human caused global warming is a joke, if by some gross stretch of the imagination it is true, then the problem comes back to over population. if your going to make a significant decrease in greenhouse gasses or CO2 then you got to get rid of a significant percentage of people. Who goes?


Also, weve always been threatened with causing cooling, not warming. Remember the "nuclear winter" theories that kept us in a stalemate through the cold war? If that was true then we know how to cause cooling. Put dust in the atmosphere. Ive read the one Mt St Helens eruption caused a slight global climate change.

Jason- recycling was, and is supposed to reduce our depletion of resources and use of energy. However, something like that would probably have smaller effects on global warming. What might help much more is reducing the burning of fossil fuels...i.e. alternative energy, etc.

There is some serious ignorance mongering taking place in this thread