Good INT expert run?

Tell me what you guys think?
1'st pass
hs fs 360
ts fs 360
hs fs 540
ts fs 540
hs bs 360
2nd pass
hs r2r
ts frontroll
911
ts scarecrow
hs tantrum

Not bad, but you had better not have your 5's be off axis. If they are, then you will score more than the allowed max trick point of 1350, and they will zero out the score.

Just a thought.

I didn't know that I have a toe off axis 5 and an on axis. Looks like the on axis one is going in. Thanks dude.

Sandbagger If your grabbing 1/3 of those tricks you should be riding Outlaw.

There is definately a difference between on axis and off axis.

Well put Randy!

I didn't know they scored that differently.I just guessed that would kind of be like style points.

Yeah they do, if you look in the points list, somewhere it says something like,"off axis+100". That will end up making your score 1450, which is considered Outlaw.

Personally, off axis spins are much easier than on axis. I think they should make on axis +100.

Yeah off axis 5 kind of feels like a scarecrow with a handle pass.What is the key to hs off axis? I can spin a toe off 7 anyday (cant get the handle) but I can't even get off axis on heelside it looks like a backroll gone wrong.

Your edging on Outlaw there.

I want to say that the 911 is worth 1400

It is 1350 exactly.

A flat spin TS7 is way tougher then an OA TS7 and I'd imagine, as bbr pointed out, that holds true for the 5's as well.

go outlaw... the end.

it really depends on the competition you are going against...if there's not a great deal of guys riding in the expert division...go ahead and bump up...it'll only make you better and more pumped to ride against better competition

if you dont go outlaw this year i would recommend it for next year

I would ride outlaw if I had those tricks in my bag. Be honest- if those tricks are comp. ready, you and I both know that you have a few bigger tricks that you could throw. That being said, I would throw your invert pass first. This is the reason: I have been at more INT comps than I can count, and I would say that more people are more consistent on their inverts than on their spins, especially at that level. Also, like it or not, a big invert or Raley based trick will get the crowd's attention more readily than a spin. Another piece of advice- Throw your lowest percentage trick at the end of a pass. That way if you fall, it won't mess your whole pass.

If you have an off 5, you are sandbagging, and if your state coordinator sees this thread, they should bump you. Man up and ride Outlaw!

Harrison, Peter is right on, he is an INT & WWA judge an has boys riding in both Expert & Outlaw. He is giving you the right advice. With your bag of tricks it's to man up.

They shouldn't score a TS OA5 anywhere near the HS version.

You guys I really appreciate all the good advice I am open to any advice. I believe I will go with what everyone is saying and go outlaw.What should I go with in outlaw? Trick wise

Rich, true dat...

What, a TS OA 5 is considered outlaw level? That sounds pretty off kilter. I personally see a LARGE gap between the outlaw division and expert, but maybe thats just me. The guys riding in outlaw this year will probably be throwing sevens and multi mobes correct? Shouldnt expert allow at least one mobe and consider 5's as required? Advanced would then be 3's etc.

Just my .02, I am not into the comp scene so please correct me if my assumptions are off.

In INT, if somebody is throwing 7s and multiple Mobes, they should have no problem posting a Pro score. In Nor Cal, if a rider landed Harrison's run cleanly, they would win Outlaw probably about 50% of the time. It's about a 12,000 point run without any grabs and before style points. It's all about getting ten tricks in.

I don't like the composition of the run with all spins and then mostly inverts.
you should mix spins, inverts and raley based in each pass.

I've always preached that getting the 10 in is more important then anything else but some people just don't listen!

I have always had mixed thoughts about how the INTs scoring works. As I mentioned before, and as Dizzle and Rich agreed, off axis is much easier than on axis, and should be scored accordingly. However, that is not the case. I will go out on a limb and say that probably 90% of people that can do a 5, throw it off axis, and have a hard time landing it on axis.

I also agree partially with what Dizzle says about the mobes. Two years ago at Nationals in Bakersfield, I watched rider after rider, pulling several mobes in the Outlaw division. Now if your kind of on the fence, but don't have a 7 or a single mobe, then in my opinion you should be riding Expert. If having an off 5 categorizes you as being Outlaw, then there is a problem with that.

I have a friend that is SOLID with just about all of the inverts out there, but doesn't have a single mobe or 7. He grabs most of his spins, and some of the inverts. He's a great rider, but not having any mobes, I would put him in Expert.

I agree, with everyone here Man up son and Ride Outlaw.

ALthough BBR makes some great points. Speaking of that Brandon I will hit you up today.

Rich is right on with the 10...so you dont have a mobe or a 7, if you can stand up your run of 10 maneuvers you're gonna be in the hunt no matter what division your riding.

perfect example of this is BG @ the DRA's. he throws nothing spectacular, no mobes or even spins really (yet) but he can stand up a 10 run pass and is ALWAYS a threat to walk home with the money. just ask rich & peter.

Damn I wish an off axis spin would come to me as easily as an on axis spin. I ride with a pretty decent group of riders and of the 4 of us that throw heel and toe 5's consitantly none of ours are off axis except for one of my buddies, but his on axis toe 5 is way better looking. None of us can seem to get the heel off spins going.

I have on axis 5's both ways hs and ts and an off axis 5.I can't get hs off axis either.

Robert and Harrison, try some trampoline work for those hs oa spins. Last season I was knocking the dust off mine due to an ACL injury, but this is how I learned them initially.

I installed a rope to a tree for my trampoline stuff and put a D ring on the tree and one on the rope. I then attached like 6 2ft sections (combined to give me a good hard bungee) of bungee together to mimic some pull back when you pull on the rope. When I first started learning them I was throwing them too much like a BR. I went back to the tramp and worked on doing a normal jump and setting the axis by yanking on the rope. I did about 2 dozen of these for a few days and sure enough, next time out I got it 3rd try. So in summary trampoline work, initiate the off axis stuff with ONLY the handle pull, go out on the water and try it out.

Thanks M-Dizzle I think that is all it is I just need to work on them. Practice makes perfect.

I'd be curious to hear how well INT picks up differences in amplitude, style, grabs (slapped or held), smoothness, etc. with the exact same tricks. It sounds from BBR's friend that is SOLID and generally from people basing their responses solely off the trick list above (which is impressive), the answer is not very well. You're better off just landing the trick (and the harder the trick based on the point system, the more points) than doing a trick really well and risking a fall. I guess that's the nature of the beast as it's generally the same on the Pro Tour. Too bad that the general equation of more rotations = more points seems to carry the day as there are cases where less = more...

Most grabs are worth + 50 points in INT, Nuke grabs and grabbed mobes are +125 I think, The little kids might get scored for a slap grab, intermidete up for sure will not.

Well what tricks should I put in for a winning outlaw run. I would love to learn a bs ts 3 and a hs bs 5 I love both those tricks.

Dude, regardless of winning a comp those two tricks are awesome Harrison! Kind of on but off point - Have you seen authentic? K. Murphy does a hs bs 3 with a melon grab after the pass that is just stupid steezy.

I haven't but I love Kyle's style he can spin like crazy. I saw some of his riding on the movie that double up tried to make.It was just on the trailer.

I judged the Intermidiate and Advanced Divisions at Louisiana this year, and trust me, there were a ton of riders that swam back to shore thinking they had won it, when we gave them a poor score for slaps.


And you are definantly an Outlaw rider.

My best friend won it last year, and his largest trick was a tootsie roll, a grabbed 5, and a 911, but he pulled it off super clean, went huge, and everything was super solid.

he scored a full 1,000 points ahead of the next closest guy.

Don't be a stat rat. ride OUTLAW

Caleb, I'm glad to hear that poor scores were given for that slapping grab attempt. I've seen it way too much in INT where the rider would score just as well as a clean grab.

How do you score a slap vs a grab in points? Is it a style point reduction (or less style points) or a trick point reduction?

I've judged a lot of INT events over the years, including US Championships, the rules are very clear on grabs. A landed trick with a slap would be scored a landed trick with no points (+50) for the missed grab.

The way we did it, if there was any question on the grab, we didn't give it too them. At the state level, we may let them get away with a grab that's sketchy at best, but at nationals, this is the highest level. you have to work for it.

I was in at least a couple of boats every day, and was greatly suprised at the number of people who were getting away with sketchy runs.

allen - We don't score slaps, the first slap is counted as a wake to wake jump, and after that, we don't count them at all. Plus it's an over all style point de-duction in my book.