To "Tindy" or not to "Tindy" this is the question?

Ok....So we all know the discussions about grabbing Tindy, tailfish, etc., and how it’s not legit, cool, or respected. Whether the reason is that it’s not suitable because, of skateboarding, it looks sloppy, or whatever. The fact is that a lot of our favorite pro riders have been known to grab in these forbidden areas, and have even made them look good....take Jeff Weatherall for instance as seen in the Wake Stock photo gallery.

I'll be the first to admit that I do not grab Tindy or Tailfish (if I can help it), but if you where the judge in this contest, would you have scored him lower than if he would have grabbed it indy? What do you guys think "Tindy dope or nope?"

if you can make it look good then fine. when most of the pros do it there grabing another trick and this makes it alot harder to get it indy. if its regular air then i would say don't do it. but if your just learning grabs then who cares. i only do it occasionally when i bone out my front leg but i try not to do it still.

i agree with ed. I dont think it is bad to grab a roll 2 blind or tanny 2 blind tindy.

in my eyes, that pic does not justify tindy, that is damn near close to an indy. Tindy is much more sloppy and inches closer to the tail right in the middle of the tail and the binding...
I have been known to grab tindy, but not without a tweak to it
so when your spinning and goen inverted, sh*t happens, but for a straight air, try not to do it, go the extra distance for tail or indy, it looks so much better

If he was at least trying to grab indy, then its cool. Sometimes you mean to grab indy or tail but you just can't, but as long as your intentions were good...

we all miss grabs or grab sloppy ocasionaly, buit it is key that you grab legit between the feet or on the nose and tail. Their is also a controversy over the nuclear grab, i personally like it, I count it as legit, any one else have any thoughts.

Has anyone seen Harf do shifty tindies off the DUp? I have, and I for one could care less. If a grab looks good, by all means, do it. How is the slob grab any different from tindy? It's not really, but it's considered legit. Basically the whole argument comes from snowboarding - but we're not snowboarding, so why should be care about following in their path? Just my opinion...

I like the ripped left binding.

don't worry about if other people tell you its cool. if it works for you, do it. if not, don't. don't be a sheep.

a slob grab is a mute with your back leg boned out, only wakeboarders call grabbing infront of your foot a slob.

like Tim said,
think for yourself.

the whole argument stems from skateboarding because they've invented most of the tricks. Snowboarders were the first to butcher such radical maneuvers, but they've since learned how to grab. but maybe that's what you were saying...

I'll think for myself, but only if bill mccaffray says it's "Ok." hahahaha, I'm kidding...hopefully you all get that. I think bill is awesome.

and a slob grab is actually a mute grab on a frontside air.

quite frankly, I think that grabbing in between your feet when it comes to indy's and stalefishes is very little to ask. And I hate to say it, but some pros just don't know any better (when it comes to indy's and stalefishes). Stances are ultra fricking wide, the space between one's feet has been larger than ever. There's really no excuse in my book not to "come correct", not even "don't be a sheep."

Ok, i'm outie.

In most instances, it is harder to grab indy than tindy. Especially in this instance as it looks like he's getting into some sort of off axis spin.

So, yes, I'd score him lower. But, I'd score him higher for grabbing tindy than if he had not grabbed at all.

If I remember correctly from WBM, that was one of the factors (grabbing closer to mute than slob), that Parks cited for Josh Sanders winning that Double or NOthing Contest over Harf as they both pulled heel f/s 9's.

The tindy, nethod, tailfish and nute problems are at epidemic levels. Like electric said, snowboarding went through this in its infancy and I have faith that you strappers will get you're act together.

Now, the legitimacy question has been posed because it is felt that grabbing the board should be done as skateboarders do, and skaters do not grab tindy, tailfish, etc. Skating being one of our sport's roots and all.

The reason skaters don't tindy or tailfish is because there is no place for it. Their feet are all the way out at the end of the board.

So my question is, if skateboards had origionally evolved with larger ends, so that tindy / tailfish grabs would be possible for skaters, would they do it? Would that then make tindy / tailfish grabs legit for everyone?

IMHO - Ride for yourself, not others. You decide what is legit to you. Don't waste your time worrying about what others might think about it. That is not what wakeboarding is about.

(Message edited by socalwakepunk on October 01, 2004)

What ever turns your crank.Who cares what everyones opinion on the grab is if it feels good.Style is all personal and trying to homogenize it is as gay as freestyle skiing.

Just thought about a fact that makes me happy. Wakeskaters don't tindy or any of those other hidious looking grabs. I don't care if the casual wakeboarder goes out and kooks it up. If you are pro and you come with grabs that are just slapped in all the wrong places, than this makes you're entire sport look lame. When I sit with snowboard or skater friends and watch a wakeboard dvd they sit and rip the pros apart(with a few exeptions). If you want wakeboarding to get the respect, than tindy and all those other grabs gotta stop.

This has to be one of the greatest discussion topics ever!!!!!

I really hope nobody is taking this too seriously.

My biggest hope for wakeboarding is to see the general public charge the wake toeside. This heelside posse stuff has got to stop. I can't wait to do my next TS Tindy, I am gonna rock that •••••••••• then throw down with a switch HS Roast Beef. Next will come my fav, my HS FS 180 with a sick nosencholy grab.

since so many "legit" arguers have weighed in i'll do my part for the other side. i think the classification of grabs as legit or otherwise is ridiculous. i don't believe there's any reason to keep legacy designations, especially ones that don't apply since the sports aren't the same.

and as much as i respect and agree with the idea forwarded by jeff and others that you should not worry about what others think, that's not the issue here. if you're deciding what to do yourself - then only you can be the judge of what you consider "legit." however, the when folks like snow and foam start talking about the evolution of the sport and "respect" from other sports, i do think it's an issue how we think about grabs. and the original question was asked about judging.

Flux, that reminds me of a friend I used to know that said no food trix before noon. Some of my favorite trix are lame grabs, oh the lein dracula. I want to see a wakeboarder do a lein dracula.

Good point about the first question, Christopher. What do you think with regards to my question (if skateboards had origionally evolved with larger ends, so that tindy / tailfish grabs would be possible for skaters, would they do it? Would that then make tindy / tailfish grabs legit for everyone?)

BTW - I know the origonal question is about legitimacy and judging, and this may sound really strange coming from me, but as much as I love riding comps, the last thing that I worry about is being judged. The only thing I am concerned with how I feel about my ride.



(Message edited by socalwakepunk on October 01, 2004)

I think if you worry about respect from other sports it's not going to happen.Do your own thing and respect will come around when it's due.
But who really cares about respect either.Just because alot of people are small minded and in their own little world.Just wait untill it is deemed cool than the masses will flock.
Skate grabs happened because they worked not because they looked cool.If Tindy had worked it would have been a grab.

jeff, i completely agree - which is the spirit of why i don't feel it necessary to "respect" or "honor" another board sport by calling things the same way they did. wakeboarding (whether too cool snowboarders like it or not), is it's own sport and should decide for itself what it's grabs are. and in terms of judging, it would seem there are areas of improvement which are much more important to improve than whether one rider was more legit on their grab than another.

In my opinion, one really can't say that "if skateboarders had that space, they would totally grab there" because it has never happened, so we'll never know. And snowboarders have also come up with some grabs (jd platt and jeff brushie, to name a few) so it's not like skateboarders came up with every grab known to man and thus having to follow everything skaters did.

Secondly, it has nothing to do with "too cool snowboarders" and their egotistical attitudes. That actually really annoys me. In fact, you can't even blame the tindy/tailfish anti-tudes on snowboarders because they used to grab that way too. If anything, it's all about purist skaters. But that's beside the point.

Anyway, We'll throw the whole respect issue out the window for a little bit. Why not keep some consistency between all of the boardsports? Why would you even want to call a grab one name while snowboarding, and the same grab another thing while wakeboarding (which, incidentally, is the case with nuclears, but I'll leave that for a different day). Honest to god, I look back at some of the "earlier" wakeboarding magazines from 1997 and they didn't even know how to label a jib (like the difference between a front board and a back board, or what have you). That is completely confusing to any crossover riders, and it's also completely stupid. Why re-name it if it's already been done?

Anyway, that's that. I wouldn't score a pro high in a contest if they sincerely grabbed tindy or tailfish. I agree with foammesh 100% on everything.

And wakeboarding IS its own sport--it's a mix of waterskiing, surfing, snowboarding, skateboarding...wait a minute!!!

(Message edited by electricsnow on October 03, 2004)

Funny was looking through an old skate mag with a pic of Tony Alva circa 1978 and he's grabbing nellon on an edger.Someone should have told him that was bad form,that he looked gay.NOT

Chicken Salad. Nuff said.

Only the original grabs are legit! The warp drives in the 3rd series are completely implausible! Tindies look hideous! Klingons are much better than those other new aliens, which are hideous! Nellons are sloppy! The use of the time-space continuum as an explanation for that one thing is totally sloppy! Jedis are better than Ewoks! A true wakeboarder would not stoop so low as to play with the illegitimate 1979 Hasbro Millenium Falcon!

You guys are nerds. Hahaha!