Articles
   
       
Pics/Video
       
Wake 101
   
       
       
Shop
Search
 
 
 
 
 
Home   Articles   Pics/Video   Gear   Wake 101   Events   Community   Forums   Classifieds   Contests   Shop   Search
WakeWorld Home
Email Password
Go Back   WakeWorld > Boats, Accessories & Tow Vehicles

Share 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old     (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       03-13-2014, 12:29 PM Reply   
L W,

The reason for the plastic rubrail is that, with the sandwich hull mating process, you bolt the hull together in a manner that results in a lip that runs around the perimeter of the boat. The easiest way to cover the lip is with the design of the rubrail that is on the A20 and A22. The reason these boats have this type of hull mating is purely due to the type of mold that is used. It's not a better or worse design, it's just different. The good thing about the rubber rubrail is that when you are tied up to another boat, if the two boats bump into each other, the rubber rubrail will not gouge the gel on the other boat. Also, while the rubber rubrail does tend to get marked up more easily than a stainless one, it's much much much easier and cheaper to replace. Frankly, you could probably replace a rubber rubrail every year for the cost of replacing a stainless rubrail every 10 years. Look, I like the aesthetics of a stainless rubrail over the black rubber one, but from a functional standpoint, the stainless rubrail is no better.
Old     (RideGull)      Join Date: Apr 2012       03-13-2014, 2:02 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DatTexasBoy View Post
Have you seen a boat with the flow system? It's terrible looking. Oh, you know it's there. How it works I can't tell you, but aesthetically it is extremely inferior to the Surf Gate.
And the huge plastic/fiberglass flaps that block the sides of the platfom look good?
The flow system is almost a quarter of the cost of surfgate too. They weren't exactly going for looks for their underwater gear.

All surf system utilize 'delayed convergence'. The flow system does the exact same as surfgate, just manual instead.
Old     (Rusty)      Join Date: Mar 2014       03-13-2014, 3:00 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jarrod View Post
I see this as a compliment to Axis. They are the standard for which Skiers Choice is measuring themselves against.

My competitors do this same desperate move when they know they are losing to me. When they have nothing left to sell and only one way to tip the scale.

The DEALER is comparing Moomba to Axis not Skiers Choice. Skiers Choice probably had no idea this poster even existed until someone posted it on here. Also, about them "measuring" themselves against Axis, frankly with the way Axis is going in price (up) and styling (down) I doubt they give a crap what they are doing.

If you think this is a desperate move then do you think Mastercraft or Mercedes or any other brand are desperate when they compare build quality? The answer is no, so why does it matter when a price point product does? Maybe you just didn't want to know about it? It's showing a difference that the average customer would never know about unless they were educated. I personally would want to know what little things are different when buying a boat because ultimately I want to make the most educated decision I can.
Old     (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       03-13-2014, 3:25 PM Reply   
"The DEALER is comparing Moomba to Axis not Skiers Choice. Skiers Choice probably had no idea this poster even existed until someone posted it on here. Also, about them "measuring" themselves against Axis, frankly with the way Axis is going in price (up) and styling (down) I doubt they give a crap what they are doing. "

Last I checked, Axis had a lot more market share than Moomba. So they SHOULD be giving a lot of craps. I see 10 Axis' on the water for every Moomba. And they've been around a lot longer. Maybe that will change....who knows.

I think it's desperate to spend time talking about your competitors product, when you should be talking about your own, for which you are supposed to be the expert. I've also never seen a high end car maker try and sell the consumer on how much stronger their chassis is. That's because no one gives a ****.

Do you really want to be educated on a brand by the competitors salesperson? You're really going to believe that?
Old     (RideGull)      Join Date: Apr 2012       03-13-2014, 3:30 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jarrod View Post
"The DEALER is comparing Moomba to Axis not Skiers Choice. Skiers Choice probably had no idea this poster even existed until someone posted it on here. Also, about them "measuring" themselves against Axis, frankly with the way Axis is going in price (up) and styling (down) I doubt they give a crap what they are doing. "

Last I checked, Axis had a lot more market share than Moomba. So they SHOULD be giving a lot of craps. I see 10 Axis' on the water for every Moomba. And they've been around a lot longer. Maybe that will change....who knows.

I think it's desperate to spend time talking about your competitors product, when you should be talking about your own, for which you are supposed to be the expert. I've also never seen a high end car maker try and sell the consumer on how much stronger their chassis is. That's because no one gives a ****.

Do you really want to be educated on a brand by the competitors salesperson? You're really going to believe that?

Pretty sure moomba actually has more market share. Your local lake does not reflect nationwide numbers.

And yes, I like to hear what a salesperson has to say about competitors. No one in sales is going to point out bad areas of their own product. So as long as a salesperson can back up their claims about a competing product and do so without "bashing", i like to hear what they have to say.

Last edited by RideGull; 03-13-2014 at 3:34 PM.
Old     (hp_inc)      Join Date: Jul 2007       03-13-2014, 4:17 PM Reply   
I think these threads are funny. The sun needs to come out and we all need to go riding. Everyone is too "grouchy" in the off season. If a dealer can back up their thoughts on why their brand is different or better by comparing them to another brand, more power to them. If they can't back it up and it is just b.s., well then it will eventually catch up with them and it will do more harm then good for them. As of the last numbers I saw, nationwide Moomba has quite a bit more market share than Axis. I actually believe they are #4 in sales nationwide for all towboats. I will double check, but I believe that is correct. Anyway, continue on...its entertaining.
Old     (hillbilly)      Join Date: Aug 2002       03-13-2014, 4:23 PM Reply   
Jarrod is right about the #'s of Axis/Moomba out here on the West Coast.
But like many other places dealer's play a big part and there is a great Axis dealer in the Delta area!
The dealer I got my Moomba from is gone and I have no idea where one is?
LOL
Old     (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       03-13-2014, 4:31 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by hillbilly View Post
Jarrod is right about the #'s of Axis/Moomba out here on the West Coast.
But like many other places dealer's play a big part and there is a great Axis dealer in the Delta area!
The dealer I got my Moomba from is gone and I have no idea where one is?
LOL
You might even narrow that down to California. I am pretty sure there are a lot more moombas in Washington and Oregon than Axis but may within the last 2 years the axis vs moomba numbers are close in Oregon.
Old     (Fixable)      Join Date: Oct 2012       03-13-2014, 4:34 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jarrod View Post

I think it's desperate to spend time talking about your competitors product, when you should be talking about your own, for which you are supposed to be the expert. I've also never seen a high end car maker try and sell the consumer on how much stronger their chassis is. That's because no one gives a ****.
You haven't???? I have seen tons of commercials about how one SUV model has a stronger frame, better suspension, etc, etc...... Car companies do this all the time. Every one of them.

My personal favorite rival commercial in the last couple months....


http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Vi08c_siQys
Old     (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       03-13-2014, 4:45 PM Reply   
That is an awesome Jaguar commercial. I know absolutely ziltch about mercedes vs jaguar reliability, performance, etc but the Jags are so much better looking than the Mercedes.
Old     (redsupralaunch)      Join Date: Aug 2002       03-13-2014, 4:45 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixable View Post
You haven't???? I have seen tons of commercials about how one SUV model has a stronger frame, better suspension, etc, etc...... Car companies do this all the time. Every one of them.

My personal favorite rival commercial in the last couple months....


http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Vi08c_siQys
Eric that was brilliant! Thank You. This thread needed some comic relief. Now, please God, melt the ice on my lake.
Old     (LYNRDSKYNRD)      Join Date: Sep 2012       03-13-2014, 5:19 PM Reply   
Where is everyone pricing these Axis boats that are priced high compared to Moomba's? When I looked last year they were priced almost dollar for dollar with a comparably optioned Moomba LSV.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk
Old     (DatTexasBoy)      Join Date: Aug 2012       03-13-2014, 6:16 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by RideGull View Post
And the huge plastic/fiberglass flaps that block the sides of the platfom look good?

The flow system is almost a quarter of the cost of surfgate too. They weren't exactly going for looks for their underwater gear.



All surf system utilize 'delayed convergence'. The flow system does the exact same as surfgate, just manual instead.


Agreed that it serves the same purpose. However if you think that the flow system doesn't look like a 4th grader designed it then, I'm real sorry about that!!!!!
Old     (Jmorlan)      Join Date: May 2013       03-13-2014, 6:17 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DatTexasBoy View Post
Agreed that it serves the same purpose. However if you think that the flow system doesn't look like a 4th grader designed it then, I'm real sorry about that!!!!!
and the surfgate looks any better? its bolted on with door hinges..
Old     (jps120)      Join Date: Oct 2012       03-13-2014, 7:11 PM Reply   
At the boat show the dealer told the flow option was $1300 I believe surfgate on an axis is around $2000.
Old     (chillaxin)      Join Date: Jun 2012       03-13-2014, 8:32 PM Reply   
I will start this post with a truth. I just bought a 2014 Axis A22. There, that is the truth. Now onto opinion, just like almost every other post on this thread. Our dealer carries Malibu/Axis and Supra/Moomba. We could not afford to order a new boat that wasn't a price point boat. My wife and I dreamed of having a boat built that was our colors and options. It worked out perfectly that the dealer carried both of the main price point boats. We could compare them side by side and price them out side by side. We looked at the Mojo 2.5 and the A22. When we loaded them with the EXACT same options, the Moomba was more expensive. I know prices are different everywhere but here the Moomba that is comparable to an A22 is more expensive. We chose the Axis based on the functionality and looks. Once again this is a personal preference. I don't have anything against Moomba, I just didn't think it was a fit for us. My wife had a lot of input in this and her exact statement was "why would we pay more for a surf system that is manual?" For the people that are saying Axis is no longer a price point boat, what options are you putting on it??? I can order a smaller version of a more expensive brand, completely bare, and make it cheaper than an A22 or a Moomba Mojo 2.5 decked out. You can order an Axis A20 with no options for under 50K. Yes I said no options!!!

On a side note, after looking at Moomba's "Surf System". What do you think is going to happen to the transom the first time someone forgets to fold the gate back and takes off to around 20+ mph???? I don't see it ending well. I know for a fact the dealers are worried about it!
Old     (Rusty)      Join Date: Mar 2014       03-13-2014, 9:14 PM Reply   
I have been on both boats with both systems and if you go over surf speeds the flow device shoots a rooster tail that is clearly visible. So if you do forget it then you'll know about it pretty quick. If you continue driving down the lake with a random rooster tail coming off of your boat then you probably shouldn't be owning a boat in the first place. Also, I love how surfgate says "Do not stand on tab" on it, really speaks for quality when you can break the thing off by standing on it. At least the Moomba system is bulletproof and doesn't look like a giant sideways trim tab sticking off the side of your boat.
Old     (501s)      Join Date: Feb 2010       03-13-2014, 11:14 PM Reply   
Good points, they all make sense. Did you get the plastic rub rail when you ordered your new LSV? Was it an option? I know on the Moombas it's an option, not sure about other brands. I don't believe it is on MC or CC, but maybe Tige?


Quote:
Originally Posted by chattwake View Post
L W,

The reason for the plastic rubrail is that, with the sandwich hull mating process, you bolt the hull together in a manner that results in a lip that runs around the perimeter of the boat. The easiest way to cover the lip is with the design of the rubrail that is on the A20 and A22. The reason these boats have this type of hull mating is purely due to the type of mold that is used. It's not a better or worse design, it's just different. The good thing about the rubber rubrail is that when you are tied up to another boat, if the two boats bump into each other, the rubber rubrail will not gouge the gel on the other boat. Also, while the rubber rubrail does tend to get marked up more easily than a stainless one, it's much much much easier and cheaper to replace. Frankly, you could probably replace a rubber rubrail every year for the cost of replacing a stainless rubrail every 10 years. Look, I like the aesthetics of a stainless rubrail over the black rubber one, but from a functional standpoint, the stainless rubrail is no better.
Old     (dezul)      Join Date: Jul 2012       03-14-2014, 5:15 AM Reply   
I still find it funny my buddy traded his 2011 Moomba LSV in for a 2013 Axis A22. The main reason he did it was cause the A22 threw a lot better wake than his LSV. I like the Moomba line but the wake was the selling point for me when I got my A22.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk
Old     (TundraA22)      Join Date: Jan 2014       03-14-2014, 5:44 AM Reply   
Number 100 Reply!
Attached Images
 
Old     (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       03-14-2014, 5:49 AM Reply   
Axis was #6 overall in market share last year. Moomba was, I believe, #9.

There's a reason our local dealer dropped Moomba when Axis came out. I also agree with the observation that this sales tactic reeks of desperation. Oh, and if you think that people are not dumb enough to forget to retract that metal flap thing that is on the transom of the Moomba models, rooster tail or not, you're kidding yourself. That being said, I certainly hope that Moomba performed testing to make sure that the transom could hold together even with those tabs deployed at essentially full throttle.

Last 3 points:
1. For those who comment that surfgate does not look better than that unfinished bracket thing offered by Moomba, c'mon man....
2. Also, as pointed out above, who wouldn't rather spend an extra $700 and have a fully automated system that auto retracts if you go over surf speed?
3. As the prior poster pointed out, most Moomba models that are comparable to the Axis line are more expensive.

Certainly, there will be some consumers out there who don't like the aesthetics of the Axis boats, and who prefer what Moomba has to offer. That's great. Subjective beliefs as to aesthetics are valid, and obviously result in certain people buying a Moomba over an Axis. What Moomba dealers should be focusing on is simply the good aspects of their products, letting people demo their products, and letting the products speak for themselves. I've been to dealerships before where the sales staff attempted to criticize their competitors products. I always thought it was unprofessional and petty.

Last edited by chattwake; 03-14-2014 at 5:51 AM.
Old     (Rusty)      Join Date: Mar 2014       03-14-2014, 6:33 AM Reply   
Pointing out differences in build quality is hardly criticizing. Saying "their new boat handles awful and the vinyl is garbage" is criticizing/bashing and yes, that not a good sales tactic in my opinion. However, pointing out differences in how the boats are actually manufacturered is just smart selling because for a lot of customers knowing those differences matters.

Also, Axis does not have more market share than Moomba. Moomba is #4 nationally and Axis is #6 behind Tige for the rolling year ending in January. I looked it up on statistical surveys, so you should probably check your facts next time before you post something like that.

In response to your bracket thing comment, I personally think Surfgate looks unfinished since it's just a fiberglass tab bolted onto the back of the boat with a hinge. If you seriously think that looks good then we just have a difference in taste. At least Moomba's looks like it will hold up and defiinitely doesn't have a warning sign not to put any weight on it. I'd rather have a machined aluminum product over a cheap fiberglass tab, but just that's just me.
Old     (DatTexasBoy)      Join Date: Aug 2012       03-14-2014, 6:33 AM Reply   
Really????? Don't get me wrong it works, but no question it's terrible looking.

Name:  ImageUploadedByTapatalk1394803931.144678.jpg
Views: 3210
Size:  79.9 KB
Old     (davez71)      Join Date: Oct 2007       03-14-2014, 6:57 AM Reply   
Is it me or did supra/moomba become the new mb on this site? Seems like to many people have been drinking the skiers choice koolaide. The first boat that I have owned was a moomba möbius and all I can say is that after seeing the newer moombas I would buy an axis anyday of the week over a moomba. With axis being made by Malibu I would prefer a low grade Malibu vs a lower grade supra. And it just so happens that a lot of people that work for SC came from Malibu. I have crawled around the new axis boats and the new moomba and the axis is such a better boat. Also the surf wake and wakeboard wake are in a totally different class when compared to moomba. Isn't that what a boat is supposed to be judged on because both are budget boats?
Old     (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       03-14-2014, 6:58 AM Reply   
Rusty -- Looking back at registration data, you are correct. Moomba is 4 and Axis is 6 for 2013. I was wrong.

However, to suggest that surfgate looks more unfinished that that thing on the back of the Moomba boats is laughable.



or

Old     (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       03-14-2014, 6:59 AM Reply   
If anything looks like a door hinge that you can pick up at ACE Hardware, it's Moomba's flow "system."
Old     (Dmac420sj)      Join Date: Mar 2012       03-14-2014, 7:42 AM Reply   
It's off season?
Old     (Dmac420sj)      Join Date: Mar 2012       03-14-2014, 7:42 AM Reply   
Nope!
Attached Images
 
Old     (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       03-14-2014, 7:53 AM Reply   
Where is Cupertino?
Old     (whiteflashwatersports1)      Join Date: Dec 2012       03-14-2014, 7:59 AM Reply   
Surfgate definately looks better but which surfs better? That is what I would care about. I don't have a dog in this fight since I have a tige with no surf system. However to the original post at every boat show I attend their are psoters like that comparing SeaRay to Regal to Coblat etc. etc. They list comparison's on build qaulity/differences, design, fuel economy, hull shape, qaulity awards, etc, etc It is a nromal practice.
Old     (Dmac420sj)      Join Date: Mar 2012       03-14-2014, 8:03 AM Reply   
California,bay area
Old     (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       03-14-2014, 8:10 AM Reply   
That poster is no different than Toyota Tundra commercials showing how their bigger brakes and beefier bolts make their truck a better truck than the competition yet noone seems to buy them...
You have to have some way to sell your boat.
Old     (Rusty)      Join Date: Mar 2014       03-14-2014, 9:49 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by chattwake View Post
Rusty -- Looking back at registration data, you are correct. Moomba is 4 and Axis is 6 for 2013. I was wrong.

However, to suggest that surfgate looks more unfinished that that thing on the back of the Moomba boats is laughable.



or


I thought we were talking about Axis? Malibu gets the fancy branding on theirs but I know Axis doesn't. To be completely honest, I think both look stupid. I personally think that the Moomba system will hold up better and isn't as noticeable though since it is without a doubt smaller. They both use delayed convergence so from a performance standpoint they do the same thing, but Moomba has been known to surf better than Axis so I would get a Moomba. It's all preference though.
Old     (501s)      Join Date: Feb 2010       03-14-2014, 10:10 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by davez71 View Post
Also the surf wake and wakeboard wake are in a totally different class when compared to Moomba.
I think the A22 compares straight to the Mojo 2.5. The wakeboard wake is definitely raved about on the Axis but it does require quite a bit of weight to reach it's potential. The Mojo has a nice wake with minimal ballast. Steeper and more narrow than the A22. The surf wave on the Mojo is very good. I haven't surfed an A22 but everything I've seen or read points to the Mojo as having a better surf wave.

Now to the Average consumer (not WW guys who run 4k for wakeboarding), which boat will appeal more. I'd say they are pretty even. Both are awesome. Also isn't the wedge "Manual" like the Flow system while the Moomba has a wakeplate you can adjust from the console? No one mentions that either.
Old     (Bamabonners)      Join Date: Jul 2011       03-14-2014, 10:21 AM Reply   
These threads are so entertaining. Personally, I see nothing wrong with the poster. Anyone that knows sales will understand that it comes with the territory.

Also, in regards to chattwake comment about his dealer not selling SC anymore. ..dealers make those kinds of decisions for many reasons..could be quality, could be sales territory, dealer incentives from the factory, etc....

Kool aid drinkers just need to learn to be more thin skinned and stop being upset when someone doesn't like their brand...I know this from my own personal experience.

Fact is, some boats are better engineered and better built in certain areas. It is up the the BUYER to do the research and decide which is better for them.

One last thing, you never know the person on the other side of the computer screen...Some are honest folks, some are idiots, and some are there to promote a brand. It is best to take all opinions with a grain of salt.
Old     (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       03-14-2014, 10:23 AM Reply   
The Axis wake out of the box blows away the Mojo. Jesus, lay off the koolaid. How many thousands of times have you seen posts and threads in which people have RAVED about the Axis wake. Now, how many posters are posting photos, videos and bragging about the Mojo wake? What, a handful, maybe? Axis pulls at Brostock. What significant tourneys utilize the Mojo as a tow boat? To even suggest that the Mojo wake is in the same hemisphere as the Axis wake is ridiculous.

Last edited by chattwake; 03-14-2014 at 10:32 AM.
Old     (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       03-14-2014, 10:29 AM Reply   
And yes, this - nonbling - Axis version of surfgate looks much much better than Moomba's unfinished metal flow thingamabob.




I mean c'mon man.
Old     (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       03-14-2014, 10:32 AM Reply   


The wave with surfgate/Axis is pretty friggin nice.
Old     (Bamabonners)      Join Date: Jul 2011       03-14-2014, 10:32 AM Reply   
When I look at the axis, the last thing I notice is the surfgate...The tower and graphics scare me away.
Old     (Dmac420sj)      Join Date: Mar 2012       03-14-2014, 10:32 AM Reply   
Chart awake you just get out of jail or something?
Old     (Dmac420sj)      Join Date: Mar 2012       03-14-2014, 10:34 AM Reply   
Lol
Old     (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       03-14-2014, 10:34 AM Reply   
Chris,

Hahaha. No man I bought a house and moved in the fall, and I've been slammed at work since the new year. Things are starting to slow down, and I'm trying to decide what boat I'm going to get for this season, so I'm back to reading ww and wbdr every day.
Old     (Bamabonners)      Join Date: Jul 2011       03-14-2014, 10:37 AM Reply   
Chatt, are you getting paid to pump axis?

You always seem a little too defensive about them. Just state your opinion and move on. Not everyone will always agree with you and not everyone has the same priorities.
Old     (Rusty)      Join Date: Mar 2014       03-14-2014, 10:40 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by chattwake View Post
The Axis wake out of the box blows away the Mojo. Jesus, lay off the koolaid. How many thousands of times have you seen posts and threads in which people have RAVED about the Axis wake. Now, how many posters are posting photos, videos and bragging about the Mojo wake? What, a handful, maybe? Axis pulls at Brostock. What significant tourneys utilize the Mojo as a tow boat? To even suggest that the Mojo wake is in the same hemisphere as the Axis wake is ridiculous.
Maybe most Moomba owners aren't on wakeworld? I mean they do sell more boats than Axis so you know they are out there. It's probably because Moombas appeal to more families with their interior styling and build quality whereas the Axis appeals to the younger generation of buyers who generally like to post their stuff on the internet.

Yeah Axis pulls Brostock, but guess who pulled it before? Supra. Guess what the Moomba hulls are probably based off of? Supra. Pulling Brostock is a mute point, that's all marketing and has nothing to do with the wake. Most people are too hammered to even realize what's going on at that event anyway and most loaded boats can throw a pretty mean double up regardless of make or model. Danny Harf landed a 1080 behind the Supra 242 when I was there and I don't see anyone on here trying to say that wake is some world beater.

The Axis wakeboard wake is probably better than the Mojo since the Axis was specifically designed to do that. Whereas the Mojo was built with alot of surfing designs to it. For example, the high freeboard and the standard surf platform. They each have their strengths so to call someone a koolaid drinker for comparing them needs to look in the mirror

Last edited by Rusty; 03-14-2014 at 10:44 AM.
Old     (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       03-14-2014, 10:49 AM Reply   
No, I'm not getting "paid to pump axis." I happen to know a lot about the brand, I've owned two. I loved the A22's I had. They were probably my favorite boats, as they gave me the least trouble, and were extremely easy to sell. I just don't agree with some of what's been posted here, so I responded. There's no conspiracy. I don't even own a boat right now. One of my best friends sells Mastercrafts, another Nautique, and another Malibu. When I buy a boat, I buy what I think will fit my needs best, and will be easy to sell at a minimal loss.
Old     (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       03-14-2014, 10:50 AM Reply   
You lost me at "mute". It's "moot".
Old     (501s)      Join Date: Feb 2010       03-14-2014, 10:56 AM Reply   
"To even suggest that the Mojo wake is in the same hemisphere as the Axis wake is ridiculous."

Really? That seems a little, I don't know, snobby.

I don't own a Mojo my Friend does and we ride it all the time. I used to own a Moomba XLV before my X30. Both Moombas have been great boats. Trouble free and totally reliable. I did not say it's wake was BETTER than Axis, in fact I stated "The wakeboard wake is definitely raved about on the Axis" and just that the Mojo was "good" with minimal ballast and was narrow and steeper. That's all I said (and this is my opinion). It's a fun wake to ride and has a lot of pop. Yes the Axis pulls more tourneys and it's wake is more coveted. They produce a "pro Level Wakeboard wake" (I know everyone on WW likes it when something is called "pro level") Did anyone say anything to the contrary on this thread? Did anyone say the Mojo wake was better? Does that actually matter to people who can barely go wake to wake (the average owners out there)?

So much defensiveness here of the Axis. Lets face it, they have an amazing wake and one of the cheapest interiors in the inboard industry with the most plastic parts. This is important to some people and not to others.

Due to all the WW hype, a couple years ago I was really considering an Axis or MB but when I actually sat in them I didn't love them as much as I hoped I would.

OK, now with all that said, that stupid Skull Hand is straight out UGLY. I would never own a boat with that giant Vinyl sticker on it. I'd "almost" rather have a giant "SURF" sticker..... almost.
Old     (boardjnky4)      Join Date: Dec 2011       03-14-2014, 11:01 AM Reply   
That graphics package is an optional upgrade, not what your standard Axis has on it. The newest Axis boats don't actually come with any graphics aside from a small Axis logo near the rear.

The interiors are MUCH improved with 2013+. If you've seen the T22 interior, you'd agree that they've grown up by quite a bit.
Old     (Dmac420sj)      Join Date: Mar 2012       03-14-2014, 11:04 AM Reply   
You know I heard Sanger sells a nice price point boat. And have a sleek low profile that drives the women crazy. Just saying.
Old     (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       03-14-2014, 11:09 AM Reply   
^^^ hahahaha

Now, I agree that a clean, plain boat is sick. I had the black axis below, and the next year had a white one (below). Both were vandal edition boat. When I sold the first one, the purchaser wanted the skeleton decals put on, so I gave him the decals that came with the black boat. I left the decals on the white one, because I thought it would look too plain without them. Plus, apparently, a lot of people who buy a Vandal edition boat want it to stand out. I personally like less graphics, so if I get another axis, I'll probably go naked again.
Attached Images
   
Old     (DatTexasBoy)      Join Date: Aug 2012       03-14-2014, 12:10 PM Reply   
I can pull up beside any Mojo on the water or at the gas station and I promise you people will hardly notice the Mojo. Happens way too often.

Name:  ImageUploadedByTapatalk1394823991.688725.jpg
Views: 4079
Size:  117.8 KB

With that being said and going back to the original post. Moomba boats are well built and everyone has their own opinion.

My only point was about the guy saying the FLO system looks better than SG. Just not possible.

Cheers
Old     (Rusty)      Join Date: Mar 2014       03-14-2014, 12:19 PM Reply   
Yeah, you'll definitely notice the huge skull graphics on that Axis...I personally would rather not be noticed than for people to see me with that ugly thing. Sometimes owning a boat that doesn't yell "LOOK AT ME" is something people like.
Old     (DatTexasBoy)      Join Date: Aug 2012       03-14-2014, 12:26 PM Reply   
Rusty,

You obviously only read the part of the post you want to. It's cool......Enjoy!!!

Thanks for the compliment though!!
Old     (Cabledog)      Join Date: Dec 2013       03-14-2014, 12:36 PM Reply   
I shopped Axis, Moomba, & MB before deciding on the Supreme V226. They were all nice boats. I thought it would be between the Axis & MB initially. I looked hard at the Axis because they are a stripped down Malibu which is a good thing but there were a couple design elements I couldn’t get past. The dash and tower were deal breakers in an otherwise very nice package. The dash to me looks like a mid-80’s direct drive ski boat when they had dual speedos. Maybe the tower is rock solid and doesn’t rattle but it is ugly IMO. The Moomba dash also looks very dated (cheap) and at the time we were buying the local dealer was losing their SC franchise so it was unknown where support would be located. The dash isn't the most important thing to me but since I am driving it I want it to look good. MB was also eliminated because of the dealer. They acted like they could care less about selling a boat when I had over 65K in hand or I would probably have a new F22. Supreme gave us a great price and a great dealer that wanted and worked for our business. Plus it’s a great looking boat with a killer surf wave. Yeah it’s got a so-so wake if you’re a pro but is still more than I will ever progress past. As far as the thread goes each of these brands mentioned why they were the best thing ever and with the exception of North West Boat Sports they all **** on their competitors as part of their sales pitch. And I got a big SURF sticker lol…
Old     (501s)      Join Date: Feb 2010       03-14-2014, 12:50 PM Reply   
OK, I just don't see how you can say no one will "notice" a Mojo next to your Gray Axis with a giant Skull hand. They are nice looking boats.
Attached Images
 
Old     (Fixable)      Join Date: Oct 2012       03-14-2014, 1:09 PM Reply   
Best posts of this thread are the ones that are like- "ya, immature dealers bashin on another brand just to sell theirs. That's stupid, and I certainly wouldn't buy from them" and then, a few sentences later, in the same post- "and besides, that boat company sucks because......."
Old     (jps120)      Join Date: Oct 2012       03-14-2014, 5:55 PM Reply   
I didn't post that picture of the sign to get into arguments about salesman tactics, I just wanted to hear from people who had knowledge on the construction methods of the two boats because I am looking at both right now. I own an older Moomba now, and have had issues with the swim-platform not being thru bolted but lag bolts. So hearing things like the tracking fins aren't thru bolted made me curious. I didn't what a shoebox fit was and if it made a difference. I was under the impression that axis and Malibu's were made on the same line and same processes. So if Malibu doesn't use a shoebox fit on their boats and have had no problems then it wouldn't matter to me. The line about Moomba having 4 bolts per engine mount and axis only has 2 had me concerned also, but I believe someone stated the axis mounts were thru bolted and the Moomba's were lag bolts. so after 100 something post and a lot of bs I have answers to my concerns. Thanks for all the help and entertainment.
Old     (you_da_man)      Join Date: Sep 2009       03-14-2014, 6:19 PM Reply   
Prior owner of a Moomba XLV here, however, the Mojo looks like a VW van in and out of the water. I think the Mojo needs a wider beam to look balanced.
Old     (dezul)      Join Date: Jul 2012       03-14-2014, 6:31 PM Reply   
I am an Axis A22 owner. 2014 version at that. The T22 and A24 are both better than the A22 when it comes to cosmetics. Both Moomba and Axis makes great boats. The A22 produces a hell of a lot bigger wake than the Mojo with weight. The A22 stock ballast is bigger than most on this site needs. I feel the same about the Mojo. I am still paranoid about the surf system on the moomba. It is the first year out. Lets hold the opinions until the general public can test it.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk
Old     (Sugashane)      Join Date: Nov 2012       03-14-2014, 7:13 PM Reply   
How many pro's ride Axis and how many ride Moomba?
Old     (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       03-14-2014, 8:21 PM Reply   
I think the correct answer is that pros ride the boat of whoever pays them to.
Old     (dezul)      Join Date: Jul 2012       03-14-2014, 8:32 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by polarbill View Post
I think the correct answer is that pros ride the boat of whoever pays them to.
Bingo.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk
Old     (RideGull)      Join Date: Apr 2012       03-15-2014, 5:58 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugashane View Post
How many pro's ride Axis and how many ride Moomba?
If i remember right...
Moomba doesn't have a pro team. They also don't do much advertising.
Keeps overhead costs low, which in turn makes the boats slightly less expensive.
Old     (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       03-15-2014, 6:17 AM Reply   
Than what? Popularity and consumer demand derived from advertising benefits both retail and consumer sales.
Old     (joeshmoe)      Join Date: Jan 2003       03-15-2014, 6:25 PM Reply   
" the wake plate is standard for Moomba because it has to have extra lift to get on plain"
Sorta like an I/O, right? I know the wedge enhances the wake on the malibu, but I do not believe the trim tab on the moomba enhances the wake At All!
Old     (wolfe_drew)      Join Date: Mar 2010       03-15-2014, 9:07 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeshmoe View Post
" the wake plate is standard for Moomba because it has to have extra lift to get on plain"
Sorta like an I/O, right? I know the wedge enhances the wake on the malibu, but I do not believe the trim tab on the moomba enhances the wake At All!
I never have to use the wakeplate to get on plane, even with over 3,000lbs of surf ballast. And, the wakeplate most certainly allows you to adjust the wake, for boarding or surfing. Lower it to mellow the wake for boarding, lengthen the wave for surfing, raise it to ramp up the wake for boarding and create a taller wave for surfing. Guess it depends on how you define "enhance."
Old     (malibu23lsv)      Join Date: Feb 2012       03-15-2014, 10:31 PM Reply   
Anyone that has a wake plate should use it when loaded. It will save fuel money and time to plane. My point earlier was that the dealer is comparing the two systems as if they were designed to do the same thing. The wake plate simulates bottom hook and the wedge simulates ballast.

Market share statistics can be analyzed lots of ways but the trends tell what's going on. Moomba does have over twice the market share of Axis but Moomba has not shown significant grown since 2009. Axis started in 2009 and is almost half the size of Moomba now. Wonder what it will look like in another 5 years at this trend?
Old     (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       03-16-2014, 9:19 AM Reply   
wedge vs wakeplate

Greg and Drew are on the money in my opinion. They do completely different things and they can't be used in conjunction with each other. Some will like the wedge because you can create a pretty solid wake with just the standard underfloor ballast and the wedge. some will like the wedge because you can go from having a very mellow wake(with it not being used) or a very peaky wake with it down. The disadvantage is that it doesn't help you get on plane, doesn't help the rough water ride and on a floating wedge you don't have the ability to adjust the wedge's position to your exact preference.

On the other hand the wakeplate isn't really an option that helps make a bigger wake like the wedge. It does allow you to adjust the wake from mellow to peaky, improves efficiency by helping the boat get on plane quicker(especially with lots of ballast) and helps the rough water ride of the boat by keeping the bow down. The downfall like mentioned previously is that it doesn't make a bigger wake than you would have without the plate at all.

I think both are great options and serve their purpose. I personally would rather have a boat with the plate but that is because I value the benefits of it vs the wedge. Hell, if I was ordering an Axis or Malibu there is a chance I would order it without the wedge all together and throw a trim tab on it myself.

I think both Axis and Moomba are building awesome boats right now that take up that "value" price point. I still can't believe that the value lines are in the 60k+ range for a 22' boat. In the 2007 range you used to be able to pick up a few different 21' vdrives with tower, racks, PP and triple ballast for right around 40k. Now you can't sniff under 50k.
Old     (rdlangston13)      Join Date: Feb 2011       03-17-2014, 1:10 AM Reply   
I like the comment how the Moomba needs a wake plate for lift to get on plain. I am not going to bash Axis but I will say my buddies A20 had issues plaining out with 3k in it. like everyone on the boat minus the driver was in the bow (not sure how many we had but it was a decent sized group). Granted that is a lot of weight and I think nearly any boat without a huge motor option and correct prop would have issues getting on plain.

I have a 2008 Moomba LSV and have never really had issues getting on plain, I don't run 3k lbs and if I did I am sure I would have problems just like the axis did but to say the wake plate is needed to get on plain is ignorant.
Old     (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       03-17-2014, 5:44 AM Reply   
If your buddy was running 3k in an A20, and there was room for people to run up to the front of the boat to get it on plane, that means he was not running a bow triangle. In other words, he loaded his boat too stern heavy.

With my buddy's A20, it took about an hour to figure out that the best way to weight that boat was to fill factory, drop the wedge, fill the pnp bags and throw a bow triangle up front. Also, he ran the core prop, which is the most aggressive prop for that boat. He had the small motor, so he knew he would have to make certain adjustments to compensate for not upgrading his motor. Look, the wedge and the plate offer two different benefits. I like the wedge better, because it allows you to run smaller bags in the rear, which allows you to have more storage and/or to obtain an even bigger wake by increasing the total amount of ballast in the boat. With my '12 A22 with the LS3 and high altitude prop, I could run wedge down, 800lb bags in the rear hatches, center tank full, front 900 pnp bag full and 1000lb bow triangle full and still plane out. Without that bow triangle, with that much weight in the rear, sure, I'd have to send folks to the front as well. It's a matter of weighing the boat correctly and/or having the right motor to match the weight you want to run.
Old     (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       03-17-2014, 5:46 AM Reply   
And, I owned 3 nautique 230's with the hydrogate (that offers the same benefits as the wakeplate), so I'm relatively familiar with the benefits generated by the wakeplate.
Old     (Froggy)      Join Date: Nov 2013       03-17-2014, 5:48 AM Reply   
Something I have noticed. The MCs Axis and BUs all seem to run with a ton of weight . I mean bags all over the seats and bow. Is it that they need that much weight to get a good wake or is it just for show ?
Old     (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       03-17-2014, 5:52 AM Reply   
It's not needed to "get a good wake." It's more that certain boats have the capability of handling that much weight, so some people max them out. Many wakeboats, when loaded with a bunch of extra ballast, would only produce a crappy wake that no one would want to ride.
Old     (Froggy)      Join Date: Nov 2013       03-17-2014, 3:22 PM Reply   
So it is more for show ? why would anyone want to haul around extra weight its harder on the boat ant takes more fuel .
Old     (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       03-17-2014, 3:24 PM Reply   
A bigger wake or wave.
Old     (mhibbing)      Join Date: Nov 2013       03-18-2014, 8:06 AM Reply   
Just in case anyone wants to get back to what WW was created for here is a shot of my surf wave behind 2014 mojo with flow the other day. Might not impress everyone but I had fun and just wanted to share....since that is what WW is for...
Attached Images
 
Old     (patrick232)      Join Date: Aug 2008       03-18-2014, 10:03 AM Reply   
Guess, I drank the KoolAid too. Currently waiting on our new Mondo, She's at the dealer right now. I have been to the said dealer that has the sign and it was just sitting on the wall. Not once in the three or four times did they say hey look at this. I did cross shop the Axis & Moomba. could not get past the tower and the windshield on the Axis. This is mine and the better half's option. Will the Axis throw a better wake than the Moomba I don't care we like the boat for being a great all around boat with a great ROI.
Old     (Rusty)      Join Date: Mar 2014       03-18-2014, 10:06 AM Reply   
Post some pics when you get your Mondo!
Old     (patrick232)      Join Date: Aug 2008       03-18-2014, 12:33 PM Reply   


Rusty here's one for you

Last edited by wakeworld; 03-19-2014 at 8:58 AM.
Old     (DatTexasBoy)      Join Date: Aug 2012       03-18-2014, 2:02 PM Reply   
Mathew,

Good looking wave......

Reply
Share 

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:01 AM.

Home   Articles   Pics/Video   Gear   Wake 101   Events   Community   Forums   Classifieds   Contests   Shop   Search
Wake World Home

 

© 2016 eWake, Inc.    
Advertise    |    Contact    |    Terms of Use    |    Privacy Policy    |    Report Abuse    |    Conduct    |    About Us