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Old     (eubanks01)      Join Date: Jun 2001       08-27-2008, 8:43 AM Reply   
So as a struggling and recovering HS FS 3 addict, I have watched a million videos and read a million tips on this trick. So many people say pop, pull, and pass and most people include the caps WITH BOTH HANDS! Well, that has always been my approach but I have never seemed to get this trick consistent with that philosophy. Also, it never seemed to lend it itself for adding additional rotations to the 3.

Ok, so here is the video I saw today that prompted my post.

If you pause the video upon take-off, you can see her front hand is off the handle before she even competely leaves the wake. So the whole pop first and "pull with two hands" is out here! That being said, there is a normally a decent amount of tension to pull in to do a HS 5 when you're only pulling with one hand.

So my conclusion is that these people are tugging on the handle GOING UP THE WAKE. To me that seems to be the only conclusion for videos like this where there seems to be slack in the line so early and they don't look to be pulling that hard once they are in the air. Obviously I'm talking about on-axis spins.

My question is when do you all pull/yank on the handle...once you've left the wake or going up the wake? I'm not talking about spinning (Raimi waits in the video to spin) but I'm talking about advancing yourself towards the boat. Thanks!
Old     (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       08-27-2008, 9:16 AM Reply   
Eubanks, it works both ways. For a grabbed 3 or a heel 5, I always pop, pull (yes with both hands) then turn the head and pass. The pull happens right after you pop on the way up.

Last year I was in a habit of edging in with the handle already planted at my back hip (no pull with both hands). Less things to focus on.

Both ways work.
Old     (eubanks01)      Join Date: Jun 2001       08-27-2008, 9:24 AM Reply   
Thanks Man. Yeah, I can see that. I'm just having trouble with the "waiting until you're at the peak of the jump to pull" thing. I also figure they are easier to grab if you're not waiting for so long to pull the handle. I guess I just won't know until I try some where I pull earlier.
Old     (to_blind)      Join Date: Mar 2007       08-27-2008, 9:27 AM Reply   
Here is what I shared with some guy in a thread called "I suck at wakeboarding". I don't coach anymore, but when i did this was a great exercise for people learning to pop/spin. From w2w all the way to hs7's, this has helped...go into the flats and practice advancing yourself on the rope and creating this about twenty times in the flats, and then take the technique and apply it to your wake jump. this will help you build line control, and if you are doing it right, you should land with some slack in the rope. this is also a great exercise when learning spins, especially BS spins. try to land on the trough of the wake with a cpl. feet of slack in the rope. i have found that this has helped a lot of my students with the "popping the handle problem". don't forget, of course, to maintain that progressive edge through the wake, then give the rope a little tug and advance yourself over the wake. you would be surprised at how little of a cut it takes to clear even the biggest wakes, once you have this technique down. hope it works for you!
Old     (to_blind)      Join Date: Mar 2007       08-27-2008, 9:29 AM Reply   
actually, my profile pic pretty much sums it up. you can see me giving a strong 2-hand pull as i leave the wake and spot the grab...
Old     (wakemikey)      Join Date: Mar 2008       08-27-2008, 12:33 PM Reply   
I bend my knees more when I cut and cut a little bit harder at the beginning of the cut and let off a lil bit at the end of the cut to create slack. Personally I pull the handle in tight to my hips right am riding up the wake. Try to pop straight up.

I don't do any kind of pull at height of jump or it yanks me off axis. The slack needs to be there BEFORE you lose your leverage to pull hard.

When I pass the handle I bend over at the waist as much as I can and pass the handle under my butt.

It's a different weight distribution when you are popping off the wake than a 180. On a 180 you load your front foot to get big air and then kind of lean back on it a little bit to land.

With a 3 you want to pop different - weight more even on both feet and as you are popping you need to initiate the spin then by pulling and you will feel it start in your hips and as you pull the handle your rear leg should start to come around right away.

I'm no pro but that's how it feels to me. Now if only I could grab it or take it 5, or switch, or backside DOH GET TO WORK!

(Message edited by wakemikey on August 27, 2008)
Old     (the_bum)      Join Date: Jul 2008       08-27-2008, 12:38 PM Reply   
Make it interesting and grab it tail first
It will make you wait before you spin first
Old     (thane_dogg)      Join Date: Jun 2002       08-27-2008, 2:03 PM Reply   
your head and shoulders should be the last thing to turn.

As you all may know this trick has given me fits for about the past 3 years. It's a finicky trick but the most important thing I figured out is that your head and shoulders absolutely have to be the last thing to turn.

My problem was that I would pop and pull, then throw my head and shoulders away from the boat creating too much undue tension on the rope and I wouldn't be able to get the handle.

One thing that helped me start landing this trick consistently was I would pull with my right hand while reaching with my left hand for the handle all while looking at my landing. I don't take my eyes off my landing until I'm comin' down. It's then that I rotate my shoulders and head and land right on the landing I spotted before I turned my head at all.

Not saying this will work for everyone, but it was one major problem that I had. Nobody could seem to help me with it, then I finally figured it out by myself.
Old     (eubanks01)      Join Date: Jun 2001       08-27-2008, 2:13 PM Reply   
Thanks for all the tips.

I think you make a good point Thane. When I would first try these I would start turning my head and body into the rotation WHILE I was pulling in on the handle. Most people won't tell you this but you really need to keep looking straight ahead while you pull, and you don't start turning into the rotation or grabbing for the handle until you've produced slack in the rope.

I'm landing some of these, but I think I might just need to change up my attempts a few times and see what works. Right now I'm doing a very wide drift edge and then pulling after I've left the wake. I want to try pulling up the wake and also try a shorter approach where I gain speed quickly and then flatten off. Trying the same thing over and over isn't doing it for me right now.

I'll reply with my progress once I get in some attempts this weekend.
Old     (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       08-27-2008, 3:17 PM Reply   
Hmmm.. try not to over think it. It's really not a hard trick if you just get out there and do it. T/S back side handle passes give me fits. It's usually because I'm out there overthinking it.

I take a really long, mellow cut into the wake. Knees slightly bent. Make sure you can get a good pop from that body position without getting bucked off balance. Come off the wake clean, then start the rotation. If you make sure you get a clean pop it'll eliminate you from spinning too early. I don't really worry about handle position edging into the wake. The mellow edge is the key to not having too much line tension.

Good luck, man.
Old     (stephan)      Join Date: Nov 2002       08-27-2008, 4:24 PM Reply   
I kinda agree with Thane, I try and hold it as long as possible before I pass the handle. My profile pic is me just letting go of the nose grab and getting to the handle. It really is an easier trick than most people make it out to be, if you can pop good and high then this trick is easy. Come in on a nice smooth edge and really take it UP!! Pass the handle and look for it.
Old     (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       08-27-2008, 5:24 PM Reply   
"pop, pull, pass" always worked for me.
Old     (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       08-27-2008, 5:43 PM Reply   
ditto umali... I've noticed it helps with toeside 5s... yea theyre different tricks, but I like to have the rope closer to my body/hip... I bend my arms and knees a little more when doing my 3s... that way the handle is right there. I'm not sure about others but I'd advise pulling while riding up the wake... seems it would throw you off balance, mess up your pop and maybe start your spin early... which in my experiences is a bad painful thing...
Old     (eubanks01)      Join Date: Jun 2001       09-01-2008, 6:10 PM Reply   
Well, I finally landed my first one in a while. I still don't have it figured out, but hopefully I'm getting closer.
Old     (westsiderippa)      Join Date: Dec 2006       09-01-2008, 10:22 PM Reply   
nice, bet that was a good feeling. congrats.
Old    K.B.C.            09-02-2008, 9:28 AM Reply   
I've always had problems getting it consistent also. Always want to spin too early and then I get whacked. This season I decided to go for a grab first to make myself wait to pull and spin. Probably not the easiest way to get it back but it has been working. Going for the grab forces me to wait to spin.
Old     (tinytdubb)      Join Date: Jul 2007       09-02-2008, 10:12 AM Reply   
that looked like you nail it all the time. good stuff
Old     (parkgirl)      Join Date: Nov 2001       09-02-2008, 10:40 AM Reply   
Congrats Jarret!
Old     (snork)      Join Date: Jun 2007       09-02-2008, 3:00 PM Reply   
Congrats, Keep your chest and chin up!


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